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Child Free? What are peoples opinion

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Postby djfourmoney » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:12 am

I can tell you 100% why I don't have children at forty and its NOT because I don't want them.

1) I'm 40 and live with my parents since 2000 when I broke up with my ONLY long term GF.

2) With previously mentioned girlfriend I did not want to have children with. So when the ONE time we had sex without a condom and she got pregnant I talked her into having an abortion.

3) See reason One, you usually live at home because you can't afford to live alone. I was never one to want to share an apartment with somebody (male) and while many friends tried to talk me into it, I never did it. Now having said that, in some cultures even in the US parents are kicking their children out at 18, so I don't free "strange" about living here, but its not tolerated by most women, especially at my age.

Without solving both the income and location problem I will be here until whenever and I know that. That is why I took this A+ course and why I am leaning towards instead of donating plasma for a new (needed) LCD TV but to take the A+ exam instead and speed up the hiring process. I will have a new resume I hope by the end of the month.

I DON'T want to be the guy that lived at home until his parents died and took the life insurance money (which I got some shocking news the other day) which there might not BE any; Only to be over 50 and forced to find an apartment or some other living arrangement and have an non-existent sex life/social life which I see EVERY SINGLE DAY = Men over 50, living alone, no sex (unless they pay for it), just cruise ISG or World Sex Guide, especially the USA forums and Mexico Forums, its full of those types of guys.

I can't stand spending another night in my bed alone, it sucks! I stay up to 2-3-4am every night (even when I was working) because there's nothing to make me go to bed. On average with my X I was in bed by 11pm in most cases, save on weekends where I was usually playing a game late. Ah the days of Metal Gear Solid and GT on the original PSX console...

But overcoming my laziness is really an issue and there's nobody pushing... But I'll get there.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:12 am

In an ideal world, I would love to live a simple life in a small town, with clean air and water, working from home doing my comics and animation, and just raise a family. I had that chance in the Philippines, but I wasted it. On the one hand, I am glad I did because, for one, the girl turned out not to be someone I would want to spend the rest of my life with, and if I had, I would never have learned about China. The girl was not bad, by the way. Even though she came from a rich family, she knew how to cook, clean and wash clothes. The only thing was she was far too clingy, required too much attention, and actually hindered me from getting any work done.

Today I see great possibility of creating that life. Aside from the fact that there are far more opportunities in the world of comics and animation in China, It is much cheaper to live here, in smaller towns, at a much higher standard of living. If I made even a mere $1000 a month online I could live a dream life here. The opportunities, though, lead me to believe far more will be possible.

Overcoming laziness is key. The Philippines, I think, made me lazy. Persistence in any endeavor is paramount to success. You know what they say, "If I knew then what I know now...."
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Postby ssjparris » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:44 pm

djfourmoney wrote:I can tell you 100% why I don't have children at forty and its NOT because I don't want them.

1) I'm 40 and live with my parents since 2000 when I broke up with my ONLY long term GF.

2) With previously mentioned girlfriend I did not want to have children with. So when the ONE time we had sex without a condom and she got pregnant I talked her into having an abortion.

3) See reason One, you usually live at home because you can't afford to live alone. I was never one to want to share an apartment with somebody (male) and while many friends tried to talk me into it, I never did it. Now having said that, in some cultures even in the US parents are kicking their children out at 18, so I don't free "strange" about living here, but its not tolerated by most women, especially at my age.

Without solving both the income and location problem I will be here until whenever and I know that. That is why I took this A+ course and why I am leaning towards instead of donating plasma for a new (needed) LCD TV but to take the A+ exam instead and speed up the hiring process. I will have a new resume I hope by the end of the month.

I DON'T want to be the guy that lived at home until his parents died and took the life insurance money (which I got some shocking news the other day) which there might not BE any; Only to be over 50 and forced to find an apartment or some other living arrangement and have an non-existent sex life/social life which I see EVERY SINGLE DAY = Men over 50, living alone, no sex (unless they pay for it), just cruise ISG or World Sex Guide, especially the USA forums and Mexico Forums, its full of those types of guys.

I can't stand spending another night in my bed alone, it sucks! I stay up to 2-3-4am every night (even when I was working) because there's nothing to make me go to bed. On average with my X I was in bed by 11pm in most cases, save on weekends where I was usually playing a game late. Ah the days of Metal Gear Solid and GT on the original PSX console...

But overcoming my laziness is really an issue and there's nobody pushing... But I'll get there.


I genuinely respect you for this and understand you. it is really hard in L.A. because the expenses are so large. I see nothing wrong with a 40 year old living with parents. in other countries it is expected for the child to live with the parents. they do not mind. here in the states there is a stigma. f**k the stigma.

i also respect the fact that you are being honest about being alone with no sex. i for one am tired of it myself. and i am searching for foreign women that are fresh off the boat. for some poon tang. hihihii.

HA...METAL GEAR SOLID RULES !!!!!!!. myrel ( how ever you spell it ) did not end up with snake in the end. i really wanted the relationship to be full force. Boy was he old as f**k in the game mgs4. raiden was cooler in the latest one too. he had implants. not those kind of implants. just arm parts and leg parts and stuff like that.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:01 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
ladislav wrote:There are now advantages of not having them and being a 51 year old childless man in the Philippines- you feel young and you never became " another generation". You feel like a young man who has just more experience and more money. This attracts young ladies who never feel that I am a "dad". They treat me as their contemporary and it feels great.

As a man in his mid 40's, this has been my experience as well. I am not so keen on having a kid because it would bind me to the mother for life. I have never met a women to whom I wanted such a connection.


Same here, I never met a woman who I wanted to be with for the rest of my life.

And it only gets worse over time... I work with a lot of older women and women really age HORRIBLY. They get nasty looking feet, their legs swell up with water from all the salty food they eat, they get fat, they loose their beauty, and for some women they start to look androgynous...
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Postby djfourmoney » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:18 am

Northamericanguy wrote:
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
ladislav wrote:There are now advantages of not having them and being a 51 year old childless man in the Philippines- you feel young and you never became " another generation". You feel like a young man who has just more experience and more money. This attracts young ladies who never feel that I am a "dad". They treat me as their contemporary and it feels great.

As a man in his mid 40's, this has been my experience as well. I am not so keen on having a kid because it would bind me to the mother for life. I have never met a women to whom I wanted such a connection.


Same here, I never met a woman who I wanted to be with for the rest of my life.

And it only gets worse over time... I work with a lot of older women and women really age HORRIBLY. They get nasty looking feet, their legs swell up with water from all the salty food they eat, they get fat, they loose their beauty, and for some women they start to look androgynous...


Oh c'mon this doesn't happen to all women, my mother is well into her 60's and doesn't have swoll up legs. Just a big butt and could easily pass for mid to late 40's.
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Postby walrusface » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:55 pm

Terrence wrote:In an ideal world, I would love to live a simple life in a small town, with clean air and water, working from home doing my comics and animation, and just raise a family. I had that chance in the Philippines, but I wasted it.


That is more or less exactly what I want, minus the family. I am a cartoonist, what kind of comics do you do? Why do you think you wasted it there? I do a weekly comic strip and although it isn't enough to live on here in the UK, I wondered how much I would need to be able to live over there.

Terrence wrote:Today I see great possibility of creating that life. Aside from the fact that there are far more opportunities in the world of comics and animation in China, It is much cheaper to live here, in smaller towns, at a much higher standard of living. If I made even a mere $1000 a month online I could live a dream life here. The opportunities, though, lead me to believe far more will be possible.


So do you think you would be able to find work as an artist in China? All I need to do for my comic strip is just email it, so if I could get something else like that regularly published, I would have enough to live somewhere like the Phils, which sounds quite ideal. Saying that I've never actually been there yet, but I am just thinking of possible options at the moment.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:45 am

walrusface wrote:That is more or less exactly what I want, minus the family. I am a cartoonist, what kind of comics do you do? Why do you think you wasted it there? I do a weekly comic strip and although it isn't enough to live on here in the UK, I wondered how much I would need to be able to live over there.

So do you think you would be able to find work as an artist in China? All I need to do for my comic strip is just email it, so if I could get something else like that regularly published, I would have enough to live somewhere like the Phils, which sounds quite ideal. Saying that I've never actually been there yet, but I am just thinking of possible options at the moment.


It is absolutely possible to do exactly what you want there. If you build up enough of a name to get another strip published, or create even a small income from your endeavors (publish comics independently for example) you can live a dream life in SE Asia. I wasted my chance because I got where my income online was around $3000 per month and I got lazy and didn't continue pushing out content.

I am working at a studio in China now. I continue to do my own thing as well and look forward to the day when I once again build my online income up to where it was previously and then beyond. Chances are so much greater now than before, especially with all the emerging markets like the iPad, mobile and others.
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Pros and Cons of Having Children

Postby Winston » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:50 pm

Check out these pros and cons lists of having children posted in The Child Free Life forums. They are quite comprehensive and make you see things in perspective. Obviously the cons outweigh the pros, numerically speaking that is. Do any of you still want kids after seeing this?

http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/v ... =5&t=11856

CONS
Would change my sense of self in ways I can't predict (ditto for husband)
Would change my relationship w/husband (*possibly* for the better-though I doubt it; would strain it either way)
Would feel resentful that mothers still end up doing more childcare/housework no matter how feminist father is
Pregnancy is often fraught and uncomfortable, even when it's easy
Have to deal with other mothers/unwanted advice
Would up my overall anxiety level
Husband would feel pressured to make more money/I would feel pressure to stay home
Less sex/cuddling/time for intimacy/romance
Might feel "touched out," as many mothers claim
Less time for hobbies, reading, movies, cooking elaborate meals, etc.
Harder/more expensive to travel or even just run errands
Body would change, possibly forever, possibly in very negative ways (tearing, prolapse-eek)
More time spent in doctor's offices, hospitals, dentist, opthamologist, orthodontists' offices, etc.
Would likely face constant guilt/judgment (from self, other mothers, relatives, friends)
Less time for personal health (eating right, working out, sleeping)
Less money - for YEARS (and we're not extremely well off now). Less for retirement savings. Less for little luxuries
Would feel pressure to buy a house vs. continuing to rent an apt.
Couldn't ever NOT be a mother - might feel trapped/suffocated
Risk of post partum depression
Might not have anything in common w/child or have vastly dif. personality/difficulty relating
Dislike the idea of breastfeeding but would feel compelled to do so
House would be messier, noisier, and smellier
Might feel extremely unattractive/unfeminine/frumpy for long stretches of time, which would tank my self-esteem and romantic life
Too many possible life-altering decisions - and I agonize over trivial decisions.
Chance of huge disagreement between self and husband; would fight more, I'd wager (we rarely argue now)Might cause awkwardness between relatives (if I disagree w/parenting advice or they think my kid is too ____, or they give my kid sugary snacks, or whatever)
Hate to be disciplinarian, but would have to (or risk good-cop/bad-cop scenario w/husband)
No family nearby, which would be sad and difficult
Would have to deal w/a pre-teen/teenager. UGH.
Would have to deal w/unpleasant cultural influences (everything from Disney Princess cr*p to drugs, sex, drinking, wild friends)
Sense of helplessness (can't always protect them/ensure they succeed & have an easy life)
Would be expected to pay for college - and holy h*ll, that's going to cost a lot in 18+ yrs.
All sorts of other unknown possible tragedies - unimaginable emotional pain and you can't ever bail.
Would constantly worry I was screwing up

PROS
I enjoy babies and young children
Get to buy cute clothes, toys, stuffed animals
Get to decorate a baby's room (choose paint, artwork, etc.)
Get to pick out names
Would finally fit in with many of my friends/most other women my age
[Easily found] sense of purpose
Get to feel that "world smiling on you" feeling, as a pregnant woman/mother of a tiny baby (you def. get to be the center of attention for a while. IMHO it fades fast, though)
A *chance* of built-in elder care (no guarantee)
Would thrill my family
Get to see my child playing with cousins, grandparents - sense of life continuing
Someone to leave stuff to, someone who would want to hear about my childhood, wedding day, etc. (I loved hearing my parents talk about that stuff)
Would open eyes to what my mom went through/help us relate even better
Get to experience world through eyes of child again/excuse to play
See what happens when you mix husband and my genes
Get to see husband as father (and I do think he'd be a great one)
Heart enlargement thing parents claim happens
Sense of accomplishment ("growing"/raising living being)

Hmm, yeah. I think we made the right decision (funny how my pro list is highly superficial).


Pros

-play, fun and laughter
-unconditional love
-cute clothes, room decoration etc
-would make our parents happy and bring us closer to them
-company when I am old (worried due to age difference and family history I may significantly outlive my husband)
-satisfy the baby craving within
-fit in with people our age and have something to offer in "kid" conversations
-holidays are more exciting
-new challenge and something to be proud of
-create something together with our love


Cons

-less sleep which is a big deal to us since we both have sleep disorders
-financially drained and we already have debt
-no local family so we'd be doing it "on our own"
-less travel options because I refuse to be one of those people with an infant or toddler on an airplane!
-much less opportunity to eat out, something we enjoy and do often (again I refuse to be one of those people...)
-less time / money to take care of myself (i.e. exercise, vitamins, relaxation)
-feeling guilty for leaving the other parent home to go out with your friends which I know you shouldn't but parents seem to anyway
-vacation time is consumed by school holidays
-relationship strain and parenting conflicts
-being embarassed by behaviour
-not being able to have a phone conversation without interuption
-have to carefully plan errands
-forget leisurely things like shopping weekends because they would be too bored
-tv/movie choices would be limited and monopolized
-our work schedules would be dictated by the school / daycare schedule
-less opportunity for sex, cuddling and just communicating
-production (we would be limited to in vitro or adoption)
-body changes affecting my self image and possibly my partner's attraction to me
-trying to work meals around kid's pickiness
-may delay retirement since we don't even want to consider starting until age 37 & 41
-what about the family pet's important place in the family? It always gets screwed by the new baby...
-always putting someone else's needs before your own...yes this is selfish but also mandatory for parenthood and in my opinon, a major con !


Hmm....well there is no doubt which list is longer anyway!!!!


Also, here are eloquent thoughts of a woman who realizes that being a mother causes more misery than it's worth. Her words are so insightful and true.

http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/v ... =5&t=11856

Having children is the only thing in the world you cannot undo. Besides suicide and homicide. Maybe manslaughter. So basically, death and children. And maybe contracting an STD.
You can get married...and divorced. You can accept a job...and quit a job. You can buy a house...and move. You can drop out of school...and graduate college at 95 years of age. All of the "big" life decisions can be undone.
But children are forever, no matter how miserable they make you.
.........................

The majority of the work falls on the mother. The majority of the change affects the mother. The physical burden is all on the mother. The emotional burden falls on the mother. The mother is expected to be delighted that a needy little creature will change every single thing about her world. No matter if she has a paying job or not, she will never, ever stop working. Worrying. Spending money and time. Twenty-four hours a day on duty. On call. If she is lucky enough to escape to a job outside the house she ends up thinking about all the things she must do when she gets home. She has to worry about what is happening to her child when she is not there. Who is watching the child. What they are learning, good and bad. She will deal with the guilt of having a life outside of her child. She will scrutinize everything she does. The father will continue to work. Continue to play. The father will never understand the physical and emotional changes that happen to a woman. There will always be isolation, guilt and sadness.

Work. Too much damn work. It seems like parents, mothers in particular, can bitch about how horrible it is to be a parent, as long as they end with "...but it's all worth it because it's the greatest thing in the world!"
If it were so great, why would parenting be the topic of a never-ending stream of jokes? Sometimes humor is used to mask misery. And repeating "it's the most important job in the world" and "it makes me so happy" over and over might make it start to seem true. Mind over matter.


Her last paragraph is so true, about the "parenting being the greatest thing in the world" cliche as a self-illusion designed to mask the misery.
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