Discuss and talk about any general topic.
Originally created by Samael Daval. He gives alternatives and examples of how to make a living without the use of going to college. Today, young to adults, even to the elderly are going back to school. For what? To give more money and less opportunity for a job? You're wasting your money when you could develop a skill and use it to make even more money than your professors.
Special Offer! FREE 6 Month Membership on ForeignWomen.com! Sign up here.
New! Chinaebuys - Buy & Ship any Product from China to Worldwide! Taobao Shipping Agent.
I love it the way he said "You don't need to go to college and hand some cocksucker $25,000 to $100,000 to get a piece of paper. To prove what?"
"And if you think outside the box, and don't go running toward a box, to be put into a box, to get a piece of paper from the box, then you will be able to constantly come up with innovative ideas..."
I would rather make $2000 a month working for myself, then $4000 a month working for a bitch.
How in the hell can they charge so much money when there is no job guarantee? Either guarantee a job, drop the cost by 90% or keep the tuition the same but a person only has to repay if they get a job in 1 year in the field of study.
College is nothing but a big ass business, paying college presidents a 400k salary and benefits package at the school near me. Total BS!
Building football stadiums for millions and performing arts studios because they have sammed so much money out of students. And tuition at this college has doubled in the past decade.
Definitely, most people are stupid to be going to school now in this economy, except certain degrees. And even most of those are risky or very demanding, with no guarantees.
I would rather make $2000 a month working for myself, then $4000 a month working for a bitch.
Well, in my case, I worked in Saudi and a college diploma did help me to get lucrative jobs in the Middle East and make pretty good money. So I don't regret having gone to college. I am skillful at teaching and lecturing but all these Middle Eastern employers require a certified college degree to be able for you to get a visa to work there. They won't give you a working visa in most countries if you do not have a college transcript.
What this guy is saying basically is that you should study for a trade or be a salesman or go into business. I've tried all those approaches and I have discovered to my dismay after many painful experiences that I am not good at technical fields, sales or businesses. Have tried numerous times, gone into business, sales, wasted years and a whole lot of money and failed miserably. Got taken to the cleaners as well by all kinds of slick talkers and dishonest partners. Can't even begin counting all the money I'd lost. The college degree on the other hand, in a field like ESL guarantee visas and entry into many countries and jobs in them.
A carpentry license or a landscaping license won't help you get a job for the international lifestyle because you will not be able to practice it in foreign lands due to their very strict visa laws.
As far as making money online, not many people can do it. If it were that easy, everybody would be doing it and no one would be manning offices anywhere or teaching schools, etc.
His approach requires a certain mind set and a certain personality. Not all people have it. For those, a college degree is a must.
It is true, there are many unemployed college graduates but there are even more people who had not gone to college and are unemployed as well and they have even less of a chance to make it in life. If the economy is in shambles, and you have a college degree, you will get a job in Korea or Taiwan in a jiff. And their embassies require college degrees.
And not everyone wants to be a blue collar worker, and it should be that way. There should be doctors in society, dentists, lawyers and not all of them are corrupt tools of capitalism. And one cannot be a good dentist or a good surgeon without a good school.
The guy is a revolutionary who wants to destroy the Western civilization. While the Western civilization sucks when it comes to dating young ladies, it has many good aspects such as technology and medicine and great literature and many other good things and services that we take for granted.
The guy's success is an exception to the rule and not the rule. If we have corporations and governments and services run by people without college degrees, we will not have enough well rounded people to run society. And he is talking about increasing vocabulary only? What about math and science?
What we need instead is improving college education, making it more practical and more current and eliminating useless courses which do not lead to your development as a person.
He is appealing to young people contemplating college. And what he needs to be telling them is that if they want to go to college, they need to choose practical fields that correspond to the market needs at the moment and check salaries in those fields. If some want to opt for trades, then it is also fine. If some are good at sales, then they do not need college either. My hat's off to mechanics and businessmen and real estate salesmen. Not all people are good at those, though, and many do not succeed. For every real estate millionaire, or a successful salesman, also, there must be hundreds of losers that have never made it and never will.
I know so many people who have lost their shirt and are now deep in debt because of failed business ventures. And I got fired from quite a few sales jobs because notwithstanding the best of efforts and sweat and tears, I just could not sell to save my life. A harsh lesson for me. Don't get into fields that do not make use of your strong points and where you do not have at least some kind of talent.
The guy is obviously a very good salesman who like sales and has a knack for it either by nature or by nurture and I am happy for him. He does not need college. Not all people can do what he does, though. just like not all people can do what I do. But when he goes to see a dentist, does he want one that did not go to college? When he drives a car, does he want one that was designed by someone who had not gone on to an engineering school? When he gets sick and needs an operation, does he want some plumber to cut him up? Could he be recording his lecture on youtube if there had not been people who had gone to colleges to study electronics and computer programming?
So, my advice is if you go to college, get a degree that is marketable and gets you jobs that are after your heart or those that you do not mind doing, and also use college education to become a well rounded person. You must also supplement college courses with independent research and reading.
His approach worked for him. It does not mean it will work for everybody. So college is an option and if you study wisely, it can be a good investment. And a degree is not just a piece of paper. I am what I am now because I had gone to college.
Last edited by ladislav on Sun May 01, 2011 11:12 pm, edited 5 times in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
What you said is true yet for most people who are not leaving the country and depending on what you desire to do college is a waste of money. If you want to be a teacher then go to college, or a doctor or a nurse then go to college. Yet liberal arts degrees in this economy are worthless. Human services degrees are worthless. A mechanic will make good money in America no matter what. So it depends on your focus. If you want to leave the country then yes you need a degree.
I highly suggest you guys look into Marty Nemko's blog - http://www.martynemko.com/ where he says correctly our education system is flawed beyond belief.
As I have been told A+ and Network + together = BS in Computer Science degree. Cost? $130 for classes (18 weeks), $240 for A+ exams and I think $120 for Network + exams. Additional exams, $349 for Microsoft MCDST (Help Desk) and Security + I think its $240 as well. All total about $1200-$1500.
There are jobs on Craigslist/Monster/Dice/Careerbuilder that don't even list any of these as being needed, just know what your doing or maybe A+ with some Network but no Network +, etc.
I have no transportation, so my options are limited. There's a job in Downtown LA that would be great, however I'm not super familiar with Linux but I plan on fooling around with it more. They cover the cost of a bus pass and I get my own bandwidth on the internet as perks. There other perks but it seems like a good idea I might apply for it.
It feels my needs of not forcing me to have a car and good pay.
i agree with ladislav on this
the people that is against college are usually too lazy to go to school. Fact is, not everyone can be "bill gates, or lady gaga" Not everyone become famous entrepreneurs and strike it rich fast.
A person with a college degree, on average makes 1,000,000$ more than a person without a degree. It's also dependant on what major you did
if it's finance, engineering, accounting, or nusing, expect to make a lot of money after college(assuming you are persistent enough to find a job)
if it's psychology, english, sociology, Good luck finding a job after college.
Sexter & Ladislav, college can be a lot cheaper than it is today. There's no reason for anyone to borrow up to $100K or beyond.
Fellows, the 1st two years of most undergrad programs can be covered in community college, without even completing high school. Yes, I recommend people to opt for homeschooling and leave high school altogether. The reason for it is that high school courses do not transfer credits to any college. There are a handful of exceptions to this but for the most part, it's true.
Then the final two years of a BA/BS can be bought at 1/2 cost, and this is really a big savings esp at one's local state college, <$25K vs <$50K.
I recommend London Univ dist for degree completion, as its tuition is ~$6K USD & it's been around since Victoria's time for the overseas British empire.
And finally, for Ladislav & other technician types, a person desiring to work in let's say Saudi will most likely want a degree in applied chemistry or chemical engineering and here's a one yr master's for $18K.
Granted, you'll have to build up your thermodynamics and transport phenomena know-how before starting a program like above but let's be real, it saves a heck of a lot of money.
More good reasons to not go to college.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"
"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
Like I said read Marty's blog, its eye opening. Many kids go to school to get degrees that don't require much reading. May save money on books but you end up with degrees like Psychology, English and Sociology as you said. Many of those degrees will get you a job in Human Resources though, just so you know.
All degrees can have some kind of purpose to them, it's just that most people don't know what to do with them after they get them and think the world will be dictating their future rather than themselves after they get the piece of paper. If you get a liberal arts BA then most likely you should be aware going into it that you will also sometime soon thereafter need to go for a continuing master's in a same or similar subject area. Of course if you get a BA in psychology or Sociology there is little you can do with it without getting at least a master's, preferably a PhD. But most kids are nieve about that and just want to do it because it's an easier option or they liked doing those types of classes in High School and think it would be cool to take similar classes in College cause it's easy.
You can get teaching jobs with an English degree, preferably overseas nowadays. But since most people don't want to leave their home country, then yes you will be competing on an uneven playing ground since many others have gotten similar degrees.
Unless your going to go into an academic type field where you need to teach or do research, most BA type degrees will be useless to the average person in the job market nowadays. If you need to get a higher end technical skills such as in the medical field, Pharmaceutical, Veterinarian, engineering, Science fields, than yes you need to get the piece of paper from a respectable university saying you had met the qualifications to pursue that particular career.
It's too bad the current school system doesn't promote technical jobs much and actually puts them down, that's where the money and stability are nowadays. IF you know a trade and is good at it, you pretty much never need to worry about employment. You may not be rich but you will have a comfortable life. IF you want to be wealthier you can always open up your own business with your known skills and try your luck managing that to attempt to bring in more money.
Australia, New Zealand and Canada realize this and are pilfering many immigrants that have trade skills. They are immigrating to those countries rather than USA. So if America doesn't fix it's immigration mess within another 10 years or so, then these countries may surpass the USA in another generation or two. You can't keep an immigration policy that favors unskilled labor and dependent family members over a rigid immigration policy that tests each individual whether they are actually skilled in their profession and can meet the minimum English rating score. America doesn't do that because of the fear of looking racist, but they are going to just dig themselves more of a whole when all they can attract are the loser immigrants that couldn't make it into these other countries as their preferred choice.
I have education type MA degrees that are only good for teaching. I got them knowing they would assist me overseas with getting decent employment. If I was stuck in the states I wouldn't have bothered to do them since our education system is more like a prison and teachers have little to no control of their own classrooms. So if I was ever forced to return to the states I wouldn't teach, even though I'm qualified to do so. Unless they make some major changes in the system, that pays over 100k a year and you are respected as a professional with less micromanagement in the classroom. Until then I'll stay overseas.
Basically nowadays you need to have a plan before you shell out money for a degree or you'll get f***ed in one way or another.
BTW, you can attend Uni and technical type schools in the Philippines for way less money than in the states and their degrees are recognized in Western countries if you go to the higher end schools. You may have to take a few extra classes in the Western country you want to work and live to get up to par with government standards, but it's way cheaper than going to school in America. I wouldn't do it to be a doctor but if you want to be a dentist, Pharmacist, Veterinarian, engineer than going to one of the top Universities in the Philippines might be a better option if your looking for a career change, you will have a better experience and spend less money.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
When I was laid off my job at a university in Oman, my final paycheck was $20,000. And the reason I was hired there to begin with was because I had a college degree. I owe my international life to that college degree. Without an MA in TESL there is no way I could be going international like this.
And sure, there are more unemployed college graduates. Because they are looking for jobs worthy of them and that pay good money. And these take time to find. While many GEDs are in the army or flipping burgers for a minimum wage and might be doing it for a long time to come.
Sure it is harder to find a job when you are a recent graduate as opposed to a high school diploma holder who wants to be a waiter. But eventually, you do find a job and have a career. It takes some time to get on your feet and when you get fired or laid off it is harder to get back on again. But you do in the end. Sure, it is easier for a janitor or for a truck driver. Or a messenger boy. But they may not be able, over time, attain so much in life as what a college graduate would. Provided you study for the right profession.
Only a very naive person would go to college and get an impractical degree, like a BA in History. You would need something else after that. For example, take a foreign service exam. Or finish your courses for a K12 History teacher.
I got a BA in general liberal arts and then an MA in TESL. This financed my entire international career and the work is easy and fun.
I was in Thailand teaching some 150 young nursing students, all girls, just a couple of hours a day. In Oman, too, my classes were just young Arab girls. And I spent 2.5 years on Hollywood Blvd giving classes to stewardesses from all over the world.
And very few of those HS diploma holders only can live an overseas lifestyle.
My advice is- decide what you want to be and what you need to study to be it. Study the job market and what your prospects will be. You may need to choose a field that is not exactly what you want to pursue but is close. There is never a perfect fit, but if it fits your talents some 60-70%, that is good enough. You cannot be a teacher or a doctor without a college degree. But you can be a computer professional without one. I for one, could never be a computer programmer and would rather be a teacher.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
For sciences major, who don't go the health care prof school route, I recommend taking the Patent Agent exam upon graduation.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 7 guests