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Don't Go To College. Check it out!

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Postby The_Adventurer » Wed May 04, 2011 1:05 am

ladislav wrote:My advice is- decide what you want to be and what you need to study to be it. Study the job market and what your prospects will be.


I think this is the best piece of info in this thread. Follow this, and you will know if your goal requires you to go to college or to travel a different road. I knew what I wanted to be ever since I saw a cartoon called Robotech (Macross) on TV in the mid 1980's. Cartoons of this type are simply not made in the USA, so I knew since some time ago that I wanted to be out here.
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Postby Jackal » Wed May 04, 2011 2:13 am

TRADER1972 wrote:I love it the way he said "You don't need to go to college and hand some cocksucker $25,000 to $100,000 to get a piece of paper. To prove what?

...To prove that you passed enough courses in a certain field within a certain amount of time. For difficult majors this means something.

Lots of guys can do things slowly at their own pace, but not too many can pass fast-paced engineering or science courses in which the information is thrown at them continuously which follows a strict timetable. Going to college also allows you to learn from experts in your field, so that you're not spending years fumbling around doing things in a trial-and-error way. Colleges also have the lab facilities and expensive equipment which would be difficult to get a hold of on your own. Would anyone let a guy with only a high school degree work on a nuclear reactor? I don't think so.

Like Ladislav, I also owe my overseas teaching jobs to my degree and my TEFL certificate. Without those, I would have been out of luck. But yes, many liberal arts degrees by themselves can be worthless, and I agree that people who are not academic types should look into other, less-expensive options than going to college.

If you have found a path which will allow you to succeed, then go for it, but be sure that you have a realistic plan. Lots of guys just make a hobby out of daydreaming and escaping reality, and they never actually get around to doing anything.

And I also agree that college is WAY over-priced in America.
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Postby odbo » Wed May 04, 2011 4:19 am

Come on guys, seriously, jackal, ladislav, what the f**k is this shit? A masters degree can be useful in finding an easy but high paying job? really!? I didn't know that, I thought people only got those because they were dedicated intellectuals and liked to do serious labour like roofing. Thanks for explaining it to us.

Instead of trying to defend your accomplishments and path in life, which absolutely no one has a problem with, how about trying to help some young fellas out. I would love to have a degree, so would everyone, but is it worth 2-4-6 years of the best years of your life? I'm almost done and I'm not even sure if it's worth another year in this f***ing country as I'm at wit's end. Is it worth your soul? College is a big mindfuck, and 99 out of 100 people will not have the experience/intelligence/mental strength, (whatever you want to call it), to fight off the brainwashing like I do. Is it even worth the money anymore? Getting into huge debt, to be unemployed. America is done, which means you'll have to jetset abroad and start from scratch. Whats better, starting out with debt but a diploma, or starting out with no diploma + some money + your individuality + several years of your life.

In a perfect world, I'd go back to higher education abroad. American universities are considered the world's best, which is some kind of sick joke. They get a lot of funding, so yes the scientific studies they do are printed in newspapers worldwide. That doesn't change the fact that the general atmosphere of the place, for regular students, is that of a pre-school. What I'm saying is I can pull a better "education" out of my ass. All American universities are good for is that piece of paper. So, what if a person is stuck in a position where he can't dedicate the next 4+ years of his life towards getting that paper? ..that's for whom this topic was really about.

It wasn't about irritating people who DID finish college.
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Postby S_Parc » Wed May 04, 2011 4:49 am

LinuxOnly wrote: how about trying to help some young fellas out. I would love to have a degree, so would everyone, but is it worth 2-4-6 years of the best years of your life? I'm almost done and I'm not even sure if it's worth another year in this f***ing country as I'm at wit's end. Is it worth your soul? College is a big mindfuck, and 99 out of 100 people will not have the experience/intelligence/mental strength, (whatever you want to call it), to fight off the brainwashing like I do. Is it even worth the money anymore? Getting into huge debt, to be unemployed. America is done, which means you'll have to jetset abroad and start from scratch. Whats better, starting out with debt but a diploma, or starting out with no diploma + some money + your individuality + several years of your life.


My nutshell answer is if one's not in a pharmacy program (a.k.a. near guaranteed six-figure job upon graduation) then the answer is 'No', unless it can be done on the cheap, which is why I posted that link to London Univ.

IMO, Jackal, Ladislav, and I had graduated during a different era. I had a near ~80% scholarship during my day and owed very little upon graduation, so those first few years out worked out ok. If I were asked to do it again, I'd drop out of HS, get a GED, take those community colleges class (like Calculus, Intro Chemistry, Micro/Macro econ, etc), and apply as a transfer to London Univ. That's how I'd break the HR stranglehold which says you need a degree to be 'appropriate' for a white collar job. Otherwise, forget it, I'd rather be a tradesman.

Here's the other exception to the rule ... bright kid, 4.0/number two in class, 1600 SATs, national science competition awards, captain of b-ball team, yada, yada. Well, he got a full scholarship to Carnegie-Mellon & never owed a dollar to anyone. If you're this person, you're not posting on this topic. I just hope he didn't sell out and join the NSA, since they actively recruit these types.
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Postby Repatriate » Wed May 04, 2011 5:16 am

College isn't a waste of time if you have focused goals and are in a major that you are in fact interested in and plan a professional path of development. Most college grads don't have much sense of direction so that's a problem but I don't blame universities for that. Most people are content to graduate with something like political science and then spend the best years of their life dicking around as an administrative assistant in some generic office. Painting all college as a waste of time is just wrong IMO. It's more about a person's plan and their motivation than anything else.
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Postby Jackal » Wed May 04, 2011 5:05 pm

LinuxOnly wrote:Instead of trying to defend your accomplishments and path in life, which absolutely no one has a problem with, how about trying to help some young fellas out. I would love to have a degree, so would everyone, but is it worth 2-4-6 years of the best years of your life?

I was just stating what I thought to be the truth. I don't care about "defending" anything.

Sure, I'd love to suggest great options for guys who don't want to go to college, but I really don't know of too many.

The only thing I can think of is getting a TEFL or CELTA certificate and then teaching English in a country which will hire teachers who don't have college degrees. I believe I mentioned this in some old posts. Maybe more remote places like Mongolia or Kazakhstan might do this. You'd have to ask around.

In Europe, employers are usually even stricter about degrees and professional qualifications than they are in America.

If you stick it out in America and get a college degree, there are ways to do it faster, such as taking courses during the summer, and doing your electives at a community college (where the courses are usually easy, so it's not hard to take many of them at once). I got my history gen ed requirement out of the way by taking a world history course at a community college for only 400 USD. It was offered once a week and was four hours long, but the professor usually let us go after two and a half hours had gone by.

I only mention academic stuff because this is all I know about. I don't want to try to talk about vocational things which I don't know any real facts about.
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Postby CheezeRaider » Wed May 04, 2011 6:32 pm

I would recommend studying in Eastern Europe. The cost of tuition is around $2000 to $3000 annual. No book cost. the university provides it for you. If you live in a dorm, the cost is around $10 to $60 a month, depending on the university. You can also rent a flat for about $250 to $350 a month for 2 bedroom, and split the cost with room mate. Cost of food, if you cook at dorm/flat is around $150 a month. But if you eat out it will up the price. It depends on your preference. If you smart you'll have the cost of utility as part of the rent.

$2000 to $3000 = tuition
No book cost = provided by university, it's part of your tuition.
$100 to $600 annual or $10 to $60 per month living in Dorm
$1500 annual or $150 per month= cost of food if you cook
$1000 to $1500 annual or $100 to $150 per month for transport, entertainment, etc.....
$5100 to $6600 total for 9 1/2 month education per yearly cost. Minus 2 weeks winter break, and 2 months summer break.

there are program the university offers so you can get a summer job around the world. I'm not sure how much of the travel cost you have to foot, but the jobs are real.
Also, your not suppose to work during school semester, but I find many students do work, so I'm not sure how well that part of the law is inforced. But you can easily get around it by getting your CELT, and/or TESL and teach privately and/or under the table at a privet school. I believe you can earn anywhere from $4 to $15 an hour.

Don't forget to add $250 to $350 a month if you plan too Not live in a dorm.

For you American Citizens. You can also get student loan under FASA if you attend foreign university recognized by them. You'll have to check your self but I believe all university that fall under Bologna Process are elligibale. Even Russia is working on the Bologna Process, so when you graduate, your deploma will be world recognized. Look up Bologna Process on Wiki. But in a nutshell, you degrees, classes are transferable to all Bologna Process members nations. Many other university around the world are ellegiable for FASA, you really have to do your own research.

Getting back on FASA, you can get a Student Loan up to:

$7500 for 1st year
$7500 for 2nd year
$15000 for 3rd
$15000 for 4th-graduation year.
These are Loans NOT Grants, so if you get grant, you'll have that much less Student loan debt when you graduate.
I don't remember the rate for masters and phd.

If you want to study into Masters and/or Ph.D, then the rules are little different. Normally after the first year of studing for master and/or phd, if/when you prove that you are serious and not just studying for the diploma paper, the falculty or the company that has a research contract with the university will pay for your tuition and even give you monthly stipulate. Because in theory, you are working for them, as you are doing their research.

Things to consider:

If you're into FSU hotties, why not meet them in the class rooms. This is optimal way to meet them and get your education at the same time. (I mean come on, meeting them fresh in university life ,as we were ment too, just like in the golden days don't get any better)

If you want to study in medical field. Under WHO (world health organization), all medical degrees are transferable around the world, but you still have to pass the local/national medical test of the place you want to practice. ie.. 1 out of every 4 doctors in US of A got there diploma oversea.

There is a preportary class for a year if you dont speak the native language, or you can pay a little extra and take the degree course in English.

Depending on the nation, you can apply for residency, and after 2 to 5 years, you can even apply for Citizenship. (there are lots of options here, but too much for me to type if up) But to give a hint, I'm a duel citizen and traveling is much easier, because not every nation are fond of Americans now adays.

I looked into PI, South Korea, Japen, and EU members in Western Europe, and the tuitions is either equal too or higher then US of A.

Keep in mind also the additional cost of starting up, such as application fees, visa cost, air travel cost etc... so I would add about $2k
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Postby S_Parc » Wed May 04, 2011 10:25 pm

CheezeRaider wrote:If you want to study in medical field. Under WHO (world health organization), all medical degrees are transferable around the world, but you still have to pass the local/national medical test of the place you want to practice. ie.. 1 out of every 4 doctors in US of A got there diploma oversea.


Here's a medical school in Hungary ...

http://www.szote.u-szeged.hu/angoltit/?lang=en

The tuition is that of one's American state univ (but at in-state rates) MD program (~$56K total) so along with the international experience, if you really, really want to get your residency stateside, you won't be coming back with a huge loan burden, getting paid $45K/yr as a new resident. There is a licensing exam for those who got an approved MD from abroad & since you won't be applying for a work visa, to come back to the USA, it shouldn't be a problem.

Obviously, if you're gung ho about a US MD, prepare for the MCAT starting high school, and get into your state program or gain domicile in a state which has one (In other words, leave places like Maine, RI, or NH).
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Postby djfourmoney » Fri May 06, 2011 8:45 pm

You can go to school for free in any Western European country as long as your a resident. Easiest way to become a resident, marry a local...

You can also apply for foreign exchange courses and then stay and finish your degree in your host country. On Expat web sites there are few stories like this.

College in much of Europe is either no-cost or low cost, compared to the US. Our top 5 Universities are likely still better than top 5 Western European Universities and theres tons of cultural exchange between them, especially schools like MIT.

I didn't want to go to college, though it would help me complete the circle so to speak with the intellectual side of me, but I don't think its worth the expense.

But if you must go, look at the job market first. The Labor Dept puts all this stats up for you to use as research, why not use them?

Biggest growth sectors not surprising are high tech skills (computer, sciences, etc) and creating intellectual properties (media, web content)

If you want an investment tip, go long on the Solar Panel industry. Many people predict Solar Power generation will explode around 2020 as the price of dirty energy vs clean energy will meet at around that time.
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Postby S_Parc » Sun May 08, 2011 3:30 am

djfourmoney wrote: College in much of Europe is either no-cost or low cost, compared to the US. Our top 5 Universities are likely still better than top 5 Western European Universities and theres tons of cultural exchange between them, especially schools like MIT.


A quick pulse check on this point... the reason why MIT is a top tier American engineering school is because it's the primary place where historically, DoD money flowed into the coffers of the labs, run by professors and postdocs. This allowed for a number of generations of companies to grow out of this institution.

What the undergrads get out of the above school (FYI, I live in the Boston area) is the access to internships to startup companies in and around Kendall Sq, where they may be a part of a pre-IPO company.

However, if you look at the actual coursework, see this site (ocw.mit.edu), a lot of universities offer this worldwide but w/o the post-graduation opportunities with well connected alumni between MA and Silicon Valley.

Now, given the recent move of corporate R&D, out of America, and towards east Asia, will this so-called Yankee university ingenuity still have the same payback as let's say back in 1970? I'd sort of doubt it. That's why so many Americans in the sciences later opt for careers in medicine, patent law, or business.
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Postby ladislav » Sun May 08, 2011 3:41 am

If you do not want to go to college, find out how you can start an online business. That is the best option of all. If you have a money making website/websites and can make $50, 100, 150 a day working online independently of your location, then you have got all that you need to live just about anywhere in the world. So, think hard what you can do. If you look hard you can find an online job, too. Just watch out for scams.
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Postby S_Parc » Sun May 08, 2011 5:46 am

ladislav wrote:If you do not want to go to college, find out how you can start an online business. That is the best option of all. If you have a money making website/websites and can make $50, 100, 150 a day working online independently of your location, then you have got all that you need to live just about anywhere in the world.


On top of the above, I still recommend someone to get a degree online, from somewhere, even if it's spread out over a lengthy period of time. Realize, your web venture may end at some point in time and then, you'll want your resume to read something like the following ...

Experience:

2010- Present, Web Designer/Marketing Specialist for XYZ Corp

[ insert experience blurp ]

Education:

BS Economics, London University, graduated 2017.

The above will allow one to pass the HR barriers to getting an interview at many American companies.
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun May 08, 2011 7:05 am

S_Parc wrote:
djfourmoney wrote: College in much of Europe is either no-cost or low cost, compared to the US. Our top 5 Universities are likely still better than top 5 Western European Universities and theres tons of cultural exchange between them, especially schools like MIT.


A quick pulse check on this point... the reason why MIT is a top tier American engineering school is because it's the primary place where historically, DoD money flowed into the coffers of the labs, run by professors and postdocs. This allowed for a number of generations of companies to grow out of this institution.

What the undergrads get out of the above school (FYI, I live in the Boston area) is the access to internships to startup companies in and around Kendall Sq, where they may be a part of a pre-IPO company.

However, if you look at the actual coursework, see this site (ocw.mit.edu), a lot of universities offer this worldwide but w/o the post-graduation opportunities with well connected alumni between MA and Silicon Valley.

Now, given the recent move of corporate R&D, out of America, and towards east Asia, will this so-called Yankee university ingenuity still have the same payback as let's say back in 1970? I'd sort of doubt it. That's why so many Americans in the sciences later opt for careers in medicine, patent law, or business.


No, your right, Stanford and other major research schools work with DoD and Major Corporations. In other words all the students do much of the work (like the movie Real Genius) and in return the companies give them a ton of money and the students get a inside track into some well-paid gigs straight of school. 1-2-3 batteries is owned by a former MIT grad, signed a major contract with GM to provide batteries for the Volt and of course Napster from an MIT grad.
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun May 08, 2011 7:12 am

ladislav wrote:If you do not want to go to college, find out how you can start an online business. That is the best option of all. If you have a money making website/websites and can make $50, 100, 150 a day working online independently of your location, then you have got all that you need to live just about anywhere in the world. So, think hard what you can do. If you look hard you can find an online job, too. Just watch out for scams.
Where there is a will, there is a way.


I have an idea about a web site that will make money just providing information with a few click-through link it should make $50-$100 a day (I hope). It will be a minute before I can buy a URL but I need to do that first. Once that's done it will be very simple, text based and then grow from there.
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Postby odbo » Sun May 08, 2011 7:41 am

Ya but it can take years to build up enough visits to make any money on websites so don't get discouraged.
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