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I find the MGTOW forums to be comprised of a lot of intelligent men who have liberated themselves from the Matrix in which most unthinkingly live their lives in the Anglosphere, much like the posters here. Impressive thinkers, and yes many of them are young and still a little naive about life, but they will grow wiser with age and experience. Leaving the U.S. for greener pastures is frequently advocated by some.
I see no major contradictions between the two forums at all and don't understand the hostility. I don't post on the MGTOW forums, but I lurk there on occasion and am almost always impressed with the quality of the discussions, a good portion of which is erudite and uplifting.
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I do not doubt that there are intelligent people at the mgtow forums. What I do mind is closed-minded fools that comment about things they know nothing about. I do not advocate mgtow be blocked from the internet or be put in jail. They are free to be a retarded as they want to be.
If any person or group feels they are entitled to disparage men that explore alternative options, in this case going overseas as a means to escape the American feminist paradigm, they must understand that they will be likewise be subjected to disparaging comments from those men that choose going overseas as a valid option. It is a concept known as "freedom".
At the end of the day, the one thing mgtow should learn is that when you attack other men that have escaped the feminist dungeon, you will be called a bunch of f***ing assholes. Conversely, if you engage men that explore overseas options, you will be embraced as brothers and logical discussion will ensue.
So my words to mgtow way? Same thing they taught us in the military. Don't start no shit, won't be no shit.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Cool story, bro.
The one universal truth of American men, and men in general, is that feminism is a destructive cancer that destroys society. No one can argue the facts, as they are self evidence. Crime, child abuse, infidelity, increased taxes, pervasive government, divorce and poverty are just some of the misery that feminism brings with it.
Any man that comes to the realization that feminists are the enemy of freedom is a friend, and I will support him.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Cool story, bro.
This is a total lie.
I just want to add that Grunt is doing a great job explaining what MGTOW is really all about.
You do realize that mgtow forums say and feel the same thing about feminism as you..Yet you berate and demonize their personal take on it?
Its all through interpretation to what anyone takes anything from. Its all full of conjecture. Yet you scrutinize them for a few individuals on that site who make up the choice to still continue to play the p***y field as opposed to the near 60% of them who just don't care about women as a whole. Theres also those who treat women as they would normally but do not outwardly show such contempt to them.
Look I am not even signed up on that site. I am just one of those who browse the forums without ever making an account but I think I will soon because I actually took the time to come here and report to you my take on the site I had been enjoying. I am in no way saying that you guys need to hold hands and sign koombiya and shit. I am saying though that while you continue to attack them with nothing more than insults and paraphrased comments you continue to draw attention to a site I find more ADULT than this.
I will not reply again to this site that blatantly refuses all ideals but its own. Sounds a bit familiar to what you falsely described mgtow to doesnt it? They don't fit your standards so they get attacked?
Sounds a bit double standard if you ask me. Are you a woman?
Well, Grunt's pulled me down to their level, what are their other two wishes?
For this Grunt person to make any claims of being tied in any form to the MRM is laughable, how can you claim to be an ally to men when all I've seen you do is tear down a group of men whose basic principle is to leave everyone else alone? Every man is free to choose his own path so why are you treading on ours, madame? So what if we're angry? Most MGTOW have become that way because of being wronged in life and, instead of adopting a victim mentality that's so popular in the west today, they've decided to detach from the situation and rebuild their lives on their own and by themselves instead of playing a losing game. Tell me you don't hear about stories of Catherine Kieu Becker and see how openly women were rejoicing in such an act and aren't a bit angry. Tell me you don't see how men are portrayed in the media and aren't a bit angry. Tell me you don't hear about all of the cases of men being cheated on and then have all of their assets seized because their wives divorced them in a no fault divorce and...well, you get the point.
You claim that we're living in our parents' basement, I've already explained that most adult MGTOW are professional men or men that are learning, how do you think we've come to the point of going our own way? Through the misandry in western universities, corporations, and general laws, we've seen how stacked the deck is against us. How insane would it be to keep walking into the same buzzsaw? Also, there are many reasons for someone to live with their parents especially in this economic climate and you're doing men no service to shame them in this manner, what if it's a man that's living with his parents to take care of them? To someone looking from the outside in like you...I meant a feminist dog or modern woman, all they see is a man living with their parents. There's also the issue of abandonment which is what I struggled with when I moved out of my parents' house, I felt like I was abandoning them and it caused a rift between my parents and I for more than a few minutes but it was a personal choice for my own growth and, despite the affects it had on my family at the time, I'd make it again.
The claim of being closeted homosexuals is pretty interesting coming from someone so focused on homosexuality if your avatar means anything. How is it homosexual to say that you abstain from society due to the actions of women today? A MGTOW can be a homosexual, I don't think anyone of us has ever claimed otherwise, MGTOW isn't about sexual orientation, it's about, as I've said before, taking control of your life as a man. What a man does with his own penis is his choice as long as he's not hurting anyone, not doing anything illegal, and he can deal with the consequences of his actions. I haven't met anyone claiming to be a MGHOW that's had an innate issue with homosexuality in of itself as you seem to, any problem we have is when you have homosexuals with the same victim mentality as the feminist dogs and when they get special treatment like in the tragic case of Jesse Dirkhising. Besides, I don't know how many homosexuals you've ever met but everyone that I've ever met has been extremely sociable and surrounded by women which counter to most MGTOW.
To those who went over to mgtowforums.com and were repelled because they weren't angry enough, why can't you handle a difference of opinion? A while ago, a member of the forum, goldenfetus, and I got into a heated debate and that was it. We went our separate ways, that's part of being a MGTOW, defending your point of view, it's how men have always interacted. To tell you the truth, I don't even remember why we were arguing to begin with but I respect his ability to stand his ground.
As far as being happier abroad, the reasons to expat are legion, I myself plan to leave the U.S. mostly to trace my lineage back to Africa for those who assume that MGTOW are just caucasians males of the U.S. but, for those who want to leave to find a woman, do you really think that's going to work at least for very long? I apologize if I'm stepping on anyone's toes because I've had the same line of thought once upon a time but, what do you thinks going to happen? Any country men start going to won't be third world and full of traditional women for long for one of two reasons. The first reason is that, as the feminist and modern women have proven time and again, whenever men begin congregating in a place to a certain degree, women invariably want to go there too. Once modern women start to come, they'll soon be followed by their feminist handlers who will make demands upon the men and the government to change things to their advantage to the detriment of the society you've joined and they will begin to infect the woman that you've tied yourself to. The other reason is that, the third world country wouldn't be third world for very long since men will begin to develop it if they choose to stay and that will bring the elite who want to control us. The first thing they'll do is destabilize society by unleashing feminism upon the country as they have here in the U.S. and again the women will be infected. I realized that there is no point in running away from the feminists or the elites, the only options are to stand and fight or to detach yourself altogether and find a way to live within but without them. If your goal is to leave the U.S., don't let me stop you but this was just some food for thought.
Back to this vendetta that Grunt has against MGTOW, someone as narrow minded and bigoted as you is truly insignificant compared to us. You can rail against MGTOW as much as you want but it really doesn't matter because it's not some movement that you can derail, hijack, or pacify unless every man in the world is wiped out. Throughout history, no matter what form they take, good or bad, there's always been a masculine form or principle that's decided to think for themselves. Shaka Zulu, Sun Tzu, William Wallace, Achilles, Noah, Moses, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Ghandi, Nobunaga Oda, Che Gueverra, Fidel Castro, Bruce Lee, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Napoleon Bonaparte, the American Revolutionaries, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler even Satan himself. No matter what you think of these men or masculine principles/forms and they haven't all been considered good, they're all men who decided that what everyone else was doing wasn't the best thing for them and decided to take control of their lives and look at how much they've affected the world they live in. The moment there were three men on Earth, one of them went their own way. MGTOW has have always been and will endure even after the special interest grougps, corrupt politicians, and worthless nation states of today have crumbled into dust.
I'll take the fortune, you can have the fame...for now.
I apologize though defensiveness comes hand in hand with open hostility. How does MGTOW and feminism sync? I suppose to some aspect its a type of abandonment. Feminism is a corruptive and polluting poison that spreads through ignorance and lies. MGTOW spreads though adopting your own personal set of goals and lifestyle that may or maynot have women in it gained by knowledge. But more or less its a level of enlightenment gained through self exploration and observation of those around you. When I changed* I think that would be an apt word for it* I began to look at things with my rose colored glasses off. It was blinding and painful. Part of me wanted to slip the glasses on again just to be able to look at everything as it was but I knew that because of what I had learned and seen it was impossible to ignore what was before me as I used to.
Signs popped up like flags. A man in a relationship takes a woman out but when he wants to go out with the guys she says no. When a woman goes into divorce or talks about it and the gaggle of them talk about how they try to weasel away all of his hard earned belongings with glee ect. It is like being able to see all of the subliminal messages and avoid them while also watching others fall for it. It is I must admit sad to watch. Mostly because when you try to express it to others they cannot see what you see. MGTOW is in a ways a harsh and abrupt awakening that can at times turn those into cynical and hateful people at first but a cooling period is required and only acquired through seeking alternatives for outlets.
I appear to be blathering but I will not delete that which I feel as it would be lying to you. My reasons for being MGTOW well..My version of MGTOW is something I found to be the most pleasurable.
It was avoidable at one point long ago. Not talking about when women got to vote and were able to work the fields men do. There are good and bad workers of any gender. But the main problems lie with the courts and government. If women were not able to access such easily exploitable loopholes in the system than I think there would be much better levels of equality.
My ideal is not so much avoidance but of aloofness I do not show hatred for them like a bitter cronie and treat them as I would anyone else as equals. I really do not seek them for relationships and I will admit much beyond working with them because there really is very little common-ground you can get when you are not trying to get into their pants. Though I will admit some had the same interests as I did but as I pointed out the law of AWALT made me consider it to be a work only friendship. I hang out with the guys frequently and I admit my choices and if they do not like it then I do not stay as my choices are not respected thus I am not respected and unwelcome. You can always make new friends but never lie about who you are.
Finally the problem with being called a fag is that when tell we others that we live a life of MGTOW name calling is involved. The ones include Genitalia mocking, Questioning your sexuality, Mental stability, and of course misogynist asshole. <~ my favorite. Its not so much that we take offense to it but that we wish to educate you on the true intentions but to some they always think there is a string attached when there is none. Thus you get into a long drawn out discussion about it and regardless most of the time they give up but bring around on another time. It is a bit of an old scar and makes them defend it with much enthusiasm because they have had the argument many many times before and are sick of it. It just never seems to go down well with others that you can escape the all powerful will of the vagina. *Obvious humor*
Again I am not a member there. I just browse. You are asking one person how an entire organization operates when MGTOW is about self exploration and what YOU take from it as an individual. There are infinite ways to interpret the lifestyle of MGTOW. And to show it there are those whom are on the site and are married. If you want to you do not even have to make an account there to view most of the threads and learn for yourself but you do if you want to view the pictures and comment.
I am just going to say I quit quitting this site. I keep getting brought back because of those who genuinely have questions about the site instead of trying to entice my irritation. And for those who do I will ignore. I already have a headache this morning due to bad nights sleep and I do not want to make it worse.
That and when I look at an mgtow thread I see humor and joking but all holding a grain of truth. Sometimes it is a bit dark and spiteful but usually the poster above jokes about something else. Those who are still in the anger phase of adopting the lifestyle. I:E They just removed the glasses a short while ago.
When I viewed a feminist thread all I saw was bitterness and hatred. Its a matter of conduct and how we approach it.
I compare feminism to a bloated behmoth at an all you can eat buffet. They have had plenty to eat and more-so yet they go for more and dessert to top it off as well.
Last edited by Teathered feather on December 21st, 2011, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Intellectually? I suppose no one is truly smart and none stupid. A genius can become a fool in moments with a stupid comment. There are variations of intelligences on that site. But they all have a common ground which they can understand one another and even if differences occur they respect them and end the discussion with maturity after a heated debate. I see few name calling. I shall no longer point fingers at your site. I forget at times that I should never hold accountable a whole for the actions of a few but it does and can alter the opinion of another. Thus the single bad egg spoiling the batch metaphor.
No I am not an official. I just browse but neglect to make an account due to so many of them already saying variations of what I wish to comply. Kind of makes me feel like saying "Pinch,poke you owe me a coke". And yes red flags it does not exactly require a trained eye and must be taken with consideration to not misjudge the level of the AWALT.
Now for your question below.
How could MGTOW happen or the reasons? I suppose that the idea of a man going his own way is a principle long written in time. Though its more adopted now due to many heavy bearings on men with today's gender based political and social inconveniences. The west politics is a broad spectrum of...well to put it gruffly "A clusterfuck". I could nit-pick its flaws and problems within a single glance but it seems that the wests politicians no longer respect the first amendment any longer and attempt to silence those who dare speak against them. Though corruption and greed are a re-running problem throughout history. I think no society will even NOT have some form of blackmailing and whispered lies and deceptive politician no matter the style of government. The west is being emulated by many other foreign cultures so its not such much domination but through influence unless we are talking about military. I can go on with that subject again for hours on end. Mostly because of personal frustrations..Like my 401k being attacked. When you lose a good 5K you really want to put a boot up someones ass when you are not the one accountable for the problem.
Women were in workplaces before the whole situation in the 30's and 40's when feminism was beginning. Though truthfully they were not paid equal wage then as they are now. I easily would pay a woman who did her job correctly as I would a man and see no flaw in that statement. Regardless of gender there is good and bad workers. With womens rise with feminism they of course were worried to the idea that women were terrible employees and they were afriad for the productivity of business. Some current corporations have a policy that requires an equal number of gendered people. I can assume that those who were hired did and were able to do the work. But when *Like the business in Germany I cannot remember the thread* they had to fire men to put women in place who had little to no training in place of those terminated which I find insipid. I seek true equality because all not all women are scum but to some degree have a common problem though not entirely by fault but through miseducation and pedistalization. It could simply be fixed by proper education and encouragement.
A woman is taught that a man can provide for them thus they do not show enough effort. A man is taught to be a provider and a care giver and forced to think this was from the time he can understand speech. Some women are taught to be independent but are poisoned by those who tell her she does not have to. Some continue this independence and I greatly respect them for outdoing those who would have her fall to that level of shamefulness. A person who tries regardless of those who tell them they do not have to, but they do it because they WANT to. Those were the women back then and those whom I would support now if they actually upheld the ways they originally had and if those were a problem now.
As for why it happens now I suppose its because they are taught that the world will hand them everything because women are more I feel a bit one-sided in saying this but they are spoiled more than a boy as children. They are guarded and protected more than a son who is given room to make mistakes and learn from them. They are not prepared for adulthood to put it simply and require help.
*I had to edit that several times. I had a big problem with missing things when I proofread and only find embarrassment when I miss an easily avoidable grammatical error.*
See Feminists, MGTOW, and Traditionalists.
Who selects the judges (courts) and government? The voters, of course. That is why the problem was that women got the vote. Once women can vote to impose their will on men, it is all over.
You may want to edit that.
Voting as a whole is a flawed system. And laws such as these are imposed by pity. That is why I stated education vs. sexual bias. Raise a woman to be a man. Not sexually but as equals with equal treatment in every manner. Make that woman avoid contact with those whom have been polluted. Do you think that she would be as foul as you make them to be? No.
Mgtow are truly against current marriages. Because they are influenced and biased against men. No issue. That is why they believe in marriage 2.0 which prevents most downsides to a divorce. Including excluding her name in important titles and making her sign the written agreement before marriage that prevents her from suing the shirt off your back in marriage. Some just do not want marriage and stay with their girlfriends. You already know my take on it as I stated it before.
Any man that cheats on another man is a sick minded individual who takes advantages of another mans supposed love. Though I do not understand the concept of marriage being a "Smart" thing to do. The guy who does it beleives with his whole being the woman to be faithful and to help that trust be broken is a wicked and cruel thing to do to anyone. MGTOW have had these occur and wish none to happen to another man. That is why we provide information on the subject. None would do such things or at least the large majority would not.
I support true gender equality. That is what I believe MGTOW to be. A group of men wanting equality but also choosing alternative lifestyles or educating themselves to adjust and possible prevent and turn-over the current political threshold found it gender discrimination in politics. If that is what that implies then it is true. A gender gap should not be made for any side man or woman.
A person should be solely responsible for their own physical well-being and whatever they do with it us up to them. Enforcing any law or rule to prevent it is completely unconstitutional and corrupt. Pre-marital is causal sex. It is fine for either gender. The only reason it is viewed as negative for women is because they can be "Altered" structurally in their reproductive pathways. They can be stretched and torn but they can be fixed with kegels and other forms of vaginal exercises to make her vaginal walls "Tighter". It also can be "altered" through masturbation with large sexual objects. A woman can break her own hymen if she is not careful.
Do you have a better system? The most productive societies in history were democracies of men.
What about tradition marriage as in marriage 1.0?
So should adultery be illegal, or at least should the husband have the right to kill the adulterer?
What about equality for cat and dogs? Men and women are very different. Women cannot be made into men, in spite of what feminists and MGTOW may believe. For more, see Double Standards.
For children too? How are women different from children?
This could have been written by any feminist. It is totally wrong. As anthropologist Unwin showed in his book "Sex and Culture", the success of a culture is perfectly correlated with its restrictions placed on female premarital sex. There are very good reasons for this based on the differences between the sexes.
What you're talking about is perversion, humans are not animals. Sex is intimate, there has to be passion. All this mechanical bullshit the new generations are into will chip away at your soul no less than practicing PUA faggotry to get the slut into bed in the first place. But more specifically, women getting used up is not "the only reason" casual sex is viewed as negative for women. Men are spreading their seed. It is better to get to know someone for a few weeks, but theoretically men can fall in love with different women 3 nights in a row. And then be fine after never seeing them again. Women get penetrated during sex. That makes "casual" or "meaningless" sex with many partners impossible. You can't change natural law, something has to give. It's deeply damaging to women emotionally when they sleep around. How many men do you know who fell into drugs and depression because they had sex with several women? There's a reason why in the past all women of marriage material were virgins, and the horny working men visited brothels, rotating a small group of prostitutes.
Voting is truthful for the most part but the electoral college does not stand for the entirety of the people. You can read up on that with bushes entry into presidency. That and anyone in power is liable to corruption.
I think the best way possible would to have a collective. A conference to be held similar to jury duty to enact new laws that must be run through. And out of that must be people who are chosen by vote of the group to represent them. Then again until smaller and smaller groups until there is one for every state. Then they go to another group to decide it. Every time to be rotated so that not one person gets to decide every time which could sway what the original voters had wished. They must not change the choices or alter them but interpret them for their own but keep to its main point. It is then that it would be decided. No judge. Only a jury of equally standing peers. Where it is not some corporate lackey telling someone else where to stand and how to walk and talk. If a petition is signed then the collective must be brought back and it must be debated. This is how laws should be chosen and run for. As for financially there SHOULD be a group of people entrusted to monitor it. And a person to come in and check it to see for any error or misused money. It should be run by the people for the people. Police should return to safeguarding the public not pulling over some jackass with a busted headlight. Taxes should be voted on their use and spending every year come post tax refund.
Marriage 1.0 stopping being traditional when government jurisdiction stepped in.
Murder is never ok. Adultery is a horrific betrayal of the other partners trust and affection. Marriage is a religious law. Not state and should be settled with a church. It should not be for the law to decide. Precautions financially should be made beforehand. Any and all not by then or prepared for are at the fault of the person who did not do so and should be helped out by an equally powered but neutral third party probably a pastor/priest whatever religious leader of the church.
Animals do not have a grasp of self awareness beyond instinct. We creatures of higher intellect should act as such. Equality for all. What you are trying to put is that women r dumb. That and this is brought up and created by improper education and parenting. Though they are also responsible themselves as adults for not using their common sense when they do something foolish and then it falls on them. But what can you do when you get pushed out after being treated like a kid all your life then awake to a harsh reality that not everything is f***ing sparkles and sunshine and everyone calls you their little princess. Some have as much accountability as a child because they were not prepared its literally like getting kicked out when you are 13. Imagine that for a moment if you will.
..I feel like I am talking to bill o'riley...
Children are not aware and should not be allowed to do such things because they have no understanding of the consequences involved nor are they mature enough both physically and mentally to grasp it. Do you know how they do that? That thing that lets them understand sexual awareness? Starts with an M and ends with ATURITY!!!
Do you know how maturity is acquired? Apparently not since you seem to be sitting with a coloring book *probably drawing a penis* saying "Girlz r dumb." There are women out there smarter than me in a bunch of things. Smarter than you in a bunch of things as well. Do you know how that's possible? Do you know how they do it? DID SOME ALL POWERFUL GOD GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO KNOW ALL AND SEE ALL?!! No. They got it with effort, encouragement, and that buzzword I love..Education. And you can do it too!! Its not gender specific!! Amazing isnt it?!! Hell I am probably smarter than you in a lot of things and you probably than me!! I have no idea! But the situation with that is that you learned it.
Look this whole pre-marital thing..Do you know how thats fixed? Scroll up on my post. I already stated it.
This martial thing is a spiderweb topic so I keep finding it hard to stay on track. The success of any culture is made by the people running and helping it progress its not about the people f***ing in it.