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Definition Clarification: "Western"? West Wounded.

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Definition Clarification: "Western"? West Wounded.

Postby Free » Sat May 14, 2011 2:03 pm

Of course, the "Western" term is thrown around a lot.

What is a more representative description of this term?

Sometimes it is shown as only encompassing the Anglosphere such as the United States, Canada, England & Australia. In my opinion, definitely not a complete description.

Personally, without a doubt, I see "Western" to include the above as well as Western Europe (to include Southern Europe, although that tends to be included in Western Europe descriptions), even some aspects of Eastern Europe. Maybe even Russia. A few pockets in Latin America as well.

There are places such as in Latin America where they tend to be borderline. Such as influenced too much by Western ways.

Maybe "Western" is to describe caucasoid characteristics and locations containing that. A mental and cultural aspects containing those elements.

Personally again, I see "Western" as a sort of mindset and carrying out of various ways. Things such as the clique-like aspects. High judgement of others. Ugly pride. Ugly selfishness. A snooty nature. Rudeness, disrespect. Higher tensions. Less individual freedoms to simply be yourself without requiring to "put on face".

Of course, many if not most times, America is hammered in the aspects of referring to the negatives of a Western lifestyle, and certainly correctly so.
The thing is, in my opinion as well as others, these negatives tend to be shared in common in many, if not all Western places as I define them.

We are not facing issues with just America, but a sort of decline of the West, to include as a definition places beyond just the Anglosphere.

For the masses in these places that look at "us" and tell us how well they are doing and the problem must be "us":
Sure, there are still many, the masses, doing well for themselves socially - at least on the surface - they seem to be doing fine with social circles, getting married, having children, seeming to "have a life", and that's all fine and well; but for some others, like some of us at this forum, we may have been the ones to catch the brunt of this storm, knocked into a gutter, simply don't match well with these aspects of Western living.
Possibly with the increased levels of selfishness, materialism, greed, pride, dumbing down, etc., it may be "us" who have taking the tail end of these negative traits that have certainly been exponentially on the rise over the decades.


The point of this post is to get a sort of official definition of "Western". At least to the best we can. For if I am to continue to discuss the negative aspects and influence of Western ways on myself and some others, I would like to be accurate and make sure how I tend to define "Western" is mostly proper.

You'll hear some mention, for sure, break from the American chains, try Europe. In this example, fine, there are improvements, but, people like some of us on this different path, still face issues in Europe of cliques, people judging each other excessively, much mental tension in the air, less simplicity, less embracing of the core elements of life such as what the people of non-Western lands do, less in tune with nature, etc.

Therefore, again, the issues we mention, extend beyond just America, Canada, England and Australia and is an encompassing "Western" element.

So, you may be in Colombia for example, a place that many may not see as "Western" but if you hit pockets of the more wealthy, more Spanish-like, in my opinion, you get hit with the negatives of the Western way; the cliques, the pride, the judging, etc.

In closing, certainly there are quality aspects of Western living and Western places, but again, if you happen to be one of "us" that has been kicked to the gutter, catching the tail end of the negative aspects, and affected socially, well then, those quality aspects are not so important, for as we know, it is the social aspect of human existence that is core, vital, and one of the most important aspects to a fulfilling life. If forced to choose: better a hut with well friends and relationships in a non-Western place than in a mansion, alone, artificial in a "quality" Western land.

Thanks for any contribution in helping to define "Western", both the places, and the mindset, culture and the like.
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Postby E_Irizarry » Sat May 14, 2011 4:15 pm

I can say this much:

Westernized/western/American go hand-in-hand.

However, modernized is just that, without all the negative, ill idiosyncrasies that America is known for that the expatriating antifeminist community is cognizant of.

So while most countries in the world are modernized, thank goodness that they aren't all westernized!!!

So in your honest humble opinion, sir, what Latin American countries have you considered to be borderline westernized/western?
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Postby djfourmoney » Sat May 14, 2011 6:17 pm

This is a fairly accurate description of Western Culture - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture

Its a set of ideals shared by The United States, Great Britain (after WWII) and Western Europe rebuilt by the Allies after WWII (France, GB and the US). European influence over South America is do in large part to the Spanish empire.

Overall this "ideal" we share is overall very positive, but in practice is deeply effected by racism PERIOD. I don't see how you can critical of Western Culture without including Slavery and manipulation of societies by White skinned people in South America. Along with France and British Colonialism that made so many in India and Africa suffer.

All this was the point of view that many Europeans come from a position of superior intelligence and often try to paint people of color as lesser than because of their skin color alone, which is still in practice today, but often wrapped up in social policy, economic policy and foreign policy.

I'm especially glad Prof. Henry Louis Gates is exposing the Color issue in South America that's never talked about in US mainstream media.

What's wrong with Western Cultural in America is that it tries to tell people that Capitalism is better. But when informed that China has likely a better capitalist system, it starts with the false threats mantra. By any measurable America dominated only after its main competition was flatten in WWII. By the 1970's after two questionable wars, civil rights clashes and being caught up in Watergate the establishment successfully reinserted control of the country.

The difference between what happens then and what's happening now is the Internet and that's why there's no competition in the marketplace and why we get slower speeds for higher cost, while many other countries have higher speeds for lower cost and more competition in the marketplace. I haven't even talked about Last Mile issues, GSM vs CDMA and the fight over the growing wireless segment.

Much economic policy around the world is based on the US economy. As I said, when the Allies won in WWII, FDR installed what he wanted to do in the United States. The reason why the Right can push back against calls to be more like Europe is because only 28% of the population has passports and our media's irresponsible reporting of the facts beyond our boarders. Many have no interest in what's going on outside of America because of our propaganda campaign to tell America that our finest days are still ahead of us, without any concrete data to back that up.

The problem with Women in Western Culture is only a microcosm of a much larger and complex cultural, economic and social issues.
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Postby BellaRuth » Thu May 19, 2011 6:33 pm

My Colombian boyfriend sees his country as being Western and that it is thought of that way. Many countries would call themselves 'Western' now.

I don't think 'Western' is a good label, neither this 'Anglo' nonsense. Let's stick to 'feminist', 'materialistic' or something more accurate.
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Postby Think Different » Thu May 19, 2011 6:37 pm

I've always associated "western" with being one of the developed countries, particularly the democratic ones. It's not so much a geographic thing, since Japan is "western".
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Re: Definition Clarification: "Western"? West Woun

Postby OutWest » Thu May 19, 2011 7:08 pm

Free wrote:Of course, the "Western" term is thrown around a lot.

What is a more representative description of this term?

Sometimes it is shown as only encompassing the Anglosphere such as the United States, Canada, England & Australia. In my opinion, definitely not a complete description.

Personally, without a doubt, I see "Western" to include the above as well as Western Europe (to include Southern Europe, although that tends to be included in Western Europe descriptions), even some aspects of Eastern Europe. Maybe even Russia. A few pockets in Latin America as well.

There are places such as in Latin America where they tend to be borderline. Such as influenced too much by Western ways.

Maybe "Western" is to describe caucasoid characteristics and locations containing that. A mental and cultural aspects containing those elements.

Personally again, I see "Western" as a sort of mindset and carrying out of various ways. Things such as the clique-like aspects. High judgement of others. Ugly pride. Ugly selfishness. A snooty nature. Rudeness, disrespect. Higher tensions. Less individual freedoms to simply be yourself without requiring to "put on face".

Of course, many if not most times, America is hammered in the aspects of referring to the negatives of a Western lifestyle, and certainly correctly so.
The thing is, in my opinion as well as others, these negatives tend to be shared in common in many, if not all Western places as I define them.

We are not facing issues with just America, but a sort of decline of the West, to include as a definition places beyond just the Anglosphere.

For the masses in these places that look at "us" and tell us how well they are doing and the problem must be "us":
Sure, there are still many, the masses, doing well for themselves socially - at least on the surface - they seem to be doing fine with social circles, getting married, having children, seeming to "have a life", and that's all fine and well; but for some others, like some of us at this forum, we may have been the ones to catch the brunt of this storm, knocked into a gutter, simply don't match well with these aspects of Western living.
Possibly with the increased levels of selfishness, materialism, greed, pride, dumbing down, etc., it may be "us" who have taking the tail end of these negative traits that have certainly been exponentially on the rise over the decades.


The point of this post is to get a sort of official definition of "Western". At least to the best we can. For if I am to continue to discuss the negative aspects and influence of Western ways on myself and some others, I would like to be accurate and make sure how I tend to define "Western" is mostly proper.

You'll hear some mention, for sure, break from the American chains, try Europe. In this example, fine, there are improvements, but, people like some of us on this different path, still face issues in Europe of cliques, people judging each other excessively, much mental tension in the air, less simplicity, less embracing of the core elements of life such as what the people of non-Western lands do, less in tune with nature, etc.

Therefore, again, the issues we mention, extend beyond just America, Canada, England and Australia and is an encompassing "Western" element.

So, you may be in Colombia for example, a place that many may not see as "Western" but if you hit pockets of the more wealthy, more Spanish-like, in my opinion, you get hit with the negatives of the Western way; the cliques, the pride, the judging, etc.

In closing, certainly there are quality aspects of Western living and Western places, but again, if you happen to be one of "us" that has been kicked to the gutter, catching the tail end of the negative aspects, and affected socially, well then, those quality aspects are not so important, for as we know, it is the social aspect of human existence that is core, vital, and one of the most important aspects to a fulfilling life. If forced to choose: better a hut with well friends and relationships in a non-Western place than in a mansion, alone, artificial in a "quality" Western land.

Thanks for any contribution in helping to define "Western", both the places, and the mindset, culture and the like.



With all the floundering about defining "Western Civilization" did anyone here take anything as fundamental as Western Cv. in college?
Western culture is not the same thing as Western civilization. You might define "couture" as current practices.
Western Civ goes back to its roots more than 2000 years ago.

If the current cultural trends continue, Western Civilization will not continue.

Why is it that I can easily have analytical conversations with Russian and Chinese young people
about these very topics, but most American young people do not even understand
the vocabulary involved, much less the concepts or reasoning abilities needed to discuss them?

Increasingly, discussions with Americans quickly degrades to a rather juvenile level.
Public education victims at work...


Outwest
Misamis Oriental, Mindanao
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Re: Definition Clarification: "Western"? West Woun

Postby FreeYourMind » Thu May 19, 2011 10:52 pm

OutWest wrote:
Free wrote:Of course, the "Western" term is thrown around a lot.

What is a more representative description of this term?

Sometimes it is shown as only encompassing the Anglosphere such as the United States, Canada, England & Australia. In my opinion, definitely not a complete description.

Personally, without a doubt, I see "Western" to include the above as well as Western Europe (to include Southern Europe, although that tends to be included in Western Europe descriptions), even some aspects of Eastern Europe. Maybe even Russia. A few pockets in Latin America as well.

There are places such as in Latin America where they tend to be borderline. Such as influenced too much by Western ways.

Maybe "Western" is to describe caucasoid characteristics and locations containing that. A mental and cultural aspects containing those elements.

Personally again, I see "Western" as a sort of mindset and carrying out of various ways. Things such as the clique-like aspects. High judgement of others. Ugly pride. Ugly selfishness. A snooty nature. Rudeness, disrespect. Higher tensions. Less individual freedoms to simply be yourself without requiring to "put on face".

Of course, many if not most times, America is hammered in the aspects of referring to the negatives of a Western lifestyle, and certainly correctly so.
The thing is, in my opinion as well as others, these negatives tend to be shared in common in many, if not all Western places as I define them.

We are not facing issues with just America, but a sort of decline of the West, to include as a definition places beyond just the Anglosphere.

For the masses in these places that look at "us" and tell us how well they are doing and the problem must be "us":
Sure, there are still many, the masses, doing well for themselves socially - at least on the surface - they seem to be doing fine with social circles, getting married, having children, seeming to "have a life", and that's all fine and well; but for some others, like some of us at this forum, we may have been the ones to catch the brunt of this storm, knocked into a gutter, simply don't match well with these aspects of Western living.
Possibly with the increased levels of selfishness, materialism, greed, pride, dumbing down, etc., it may be "us" who have taking the tail end of these negative traits that have certainly been exponentially on the rise over the decades.


The point of this post is to get a sort of official definition of "Western". At least to the best we can. For if I am to continue to discuss the negative aspects and influence of Western ways on myself and some others, I would like to be accurate and make sure how I tend to define "Western" is mostly proper.

You'll hear some mention, for sure, break from the American chains, try Europe. In this example, fine, there are improvements, but, people like some of us on this different path, still face issues in Europe of cliques, people judging each other excessively, much mental tension in the air, less simplicity, less embracing of the core elements of life such as what the people of non-Western lands do, less in tune with nature, etc.

Therefore, again, the issues we mention, extend beyond just America, Canada, England and Australia and is an encompassing "Western" element.

So, you may be in Colombia for example, a place that many may not see as "Western" but if you hit pockets of the more wealthy, more Spanish-like, in my opinion, you get hit with the negatives of the Western way; the cliques, the pride, the judging, etc.

In closing, certainly there are quality aspects of Western living and Western places, but again, if you happen to be one of "us" that has been kicked to the gutter, catching the tail end of the negative aspects, and affected socially, well then, those quality aspects are not so important, for as we know, it is the social aspect of human existence that is core, vital, and one of the most important aspects to a fulfilling life. If forced to choose: better a hut with well friends and relationships in a non-Western place than in a mansion, alone, artificial in a "quality" Western land.

Thanks for any contribution in helping to define "Western", both the places, and the mindset, culture and the like.



With all the floundering about defining "Western Civilization" did anyone here take anything as fundamental as Western Cv. in college?
Western culture is not the same thing as Western civilization. You might define "couture" as current practices.
Western Civ goes back to its roots more than 2000 years ago.

If the current cultural trends continue, Western Civilization will not continue.

Why is it that I can easily have analytical conversations with Russian and Chinese young people
about these very topics, but most American young people do not even understand
the vocabulary involved, much less the concepts or reasoning abilities needed to discuss them?

Increasingly, discussions with Americans quickly degrades to a rather juvenile level.
Public education victims at work...


Outwest
Misamis Oriental, Mindanao


Western Civilization has been turned on its head. The name is the same, but little of substance remains. That's why so many good men are looking for ways to escape the U.S. and the other countries most afflicted by Cultural Marxism, of which feminism is a key component.

Non-Whites have been indoctrinated to hate the negative aspects of Western civilization, while White Americans have been dumbed down, filled with guilt, and trained to mindlessly cheer on the ugly, gangster-run system that is ruining their country and launching wars of aggression around the globe.
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