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Without children, my alternate future ...

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Postby djfourmoney » June 2nd, 2011, 5:23 am

Free wrote:Sort of in the minority here, but I personally see children as very important.
For sure there are certain freedoms I see about a child-free life and more things you can pursue, but I look at a larger picture. I think in some ways, it can be much more beneficial to not think of self so much and to therefore be willing to make a sacrifice for a greater good. From time memorial, no one promised having children would be easy work, but it is required in the most basic sense for our survival, starting from, as a human species, and then if you like, by ethnic group to ethnic group. If for example, too many in a certain ethnic group become more and more selfish, materialistic, disconnected and make a deliberate choice to not have children, and yet ethnic groups around them have 5+ children per couple, it's only logical, before time, they will cease to exist. Instead though, for their survival, and humanity in general, they carry on the innate urging, not think of self, put self aside, and make this contribution or sacrifice (however one looks at it) for the greater good.

What happened to community? Thinking of the community, our extended selves and the like.

There is of course a form of looking out for one's self that is beneficial, we need to start with ourselves being the best we can so therefore we can ultimately contribute the best to others. I don't call this selfishness. Selfishness is more of an ugly state and, as we can see too much today, is damaging many things!

For example, discussed many times here about people being in cliques and thus hard for friendly outsiders to get to know others, many times it can be traced to selfish people, doing their own thing, not thinking, caring of others. Today of most days, we need community more and more, yet selfishness is more and more on the rise.

Kind of a side path rant there, at any rate, just wanted to bring a sort of different flavor to the thread.


Oh no I agree with you 100%. Its been a generation of ME, ME, ME, ME in Western Culture. Community doesn't exist anymore, at least not in the US. Even marriage has changed and not for the better in this country.

The answer is not to say "f**k That".
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Postby S_Parc » June 3rd, 2011, 8:30 pm

Master, let me start... yes, Massachusetts was a great place... home of Hawthorne, Thoreau, & Emerson. And true, people are generally all right here, the older folks (both men & women) and the younger men. The Boston area women, however, have a combination of snottiness and average looks. Any decent woman in this region gets LA model treatment.

As for Northampton MA, well, that's the northeast corridor central for men hating lesbianism, home of Smith College, the land of the unholy trinity of Hillary Clinton, Ellen Degeneras, & Melissa Etheridge. It's a pet peeve township for me :x .

And how much do I look like Bale? Well, he's in top physical shape, perhaps I'm a bit less of a superstar gym rat (though I do have a workout program) with an overlay of Stephen Colbert's quirky facial reactions. And even Bale, esp if he's a regular professional guy, will be dating men hating control freaks in this town than the 'Rachel' of Batman. There are, however, decent women in the Brazilian and Cambodian diasporas in this region. But even there, there's a keeping up with the Ronaldos or the Prans mentality, under the surface of a healthy community. IMO, it's better to be alert to those who live their lives on the hyphenated part of their identity cards (something underscore American, with too much of that underscore).

And finally, am I gay? Well..if I were, I'd never leave Mass. We have an openly gay community in Provincetown MA, at the end of the peninsula called Cape Cod. That's a beautiful seaside town, with several daily ferries to downtown Boston, & I'd probably live there and then, you wouldn't hear from me on this forum. Thus, I'm 100% sure I'm still straight.

Here's my piece to Sexter on my experiences in College ...

During college, except for one special case, a country gal, the others resulted in psychotic behavior & such. Yes, the gal in my aforementioned biology lab went crazy during junior year, which is why I headed for the door. (I presume my friend never ended up with her). By the end of college, my female friends were 80% international/20% domestic; the ratio became somewhat apparent.

The decent AWs, as time went by, found themselves with abusive boyfriends. There was one, a really cute premed gal, who was after me towards the end of it all, but by then, I was bored of her prior failed relationships. I guess there's a problem with too much information. She later joined a cult during medical school :roll: .

As for guys, there was no particular ratio as I got along with everyone.

Well, sometime during senior year, I'd slowly stopped dating AWs. Weird, but during this transition time, I'd started training myself to take an AW out to dinner but then ... find her boring & not ask her out again, outside of a sporting event with others. Then, after college, it came to a complete halt.

My last AW 'date' involved an ultra liberal Ivy Leaguer & we went to a sushi bar downtown. Well, lo and behold, someone (possibly a black person, but no one knew for sure) snatched her purse (when we weren't looking) & took off. For the remainder of the night, she shouted the 'N' word non-stop. Albeit, it wasn't a boring night but I was flabbergasted & completely disgusted with her presence. That was my last AW date.

For the past ten years, it's only been FWs.


And for djfourmoney... what can I say, I like an empty bed to sleep in.

When I like to give it to a lady, I'd rather be in a hotel room. In fact, my fondest erotic memories of girlfriends was in hotel rooms/showers or in an office building :wink:, not in my home.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » June 3rd, 2011, 10:26 pm

S_Parc wrote:
Now, as for high class escorts, I think some of you miss the major point here. And that point is to be able to send the person away, after some fun times. The idea is not about dragging a person around and dealing with her baggage.


Yes, exactly. And to add to that, when you do the math, an escort/prostitute comes out far cheaper apposed to marriage (even worse if it fails) because even though you do pay more up front for an escort, you don't have the hidden cost of setting up the woman's future, the hidden cost of dealing with her baggage that could be costly, or the cost of having children which usually comes not long after marriage, or the cost of her f*** your mind up leaivng you emotionally bankrupt.


As far as men living longer due to marriage, I really don't know if that's true. What I will say is, I'm only going by what I see based on my trade in which deals with older women and many of the men died around 45-60 (+or-) depending on their job.

You figure, many of these married men had to work much longer and take on dangerous jobs to support their families to ensure their wives were set up for retirement long after they died. Also, many of these men are living lives not really worth living because all they did was work under depressing conditions.



That said, am I a cold person/anti marriage. No! I love women and I believe in polygamy. The thing is, for me, I have come to the conclusion that I live in a modern world that has been striped of communities and ancient tribal networks where the work used to be a communal effort and people looked out for each other to the end.

I live in a world now where I simply can't afford to care or get too heavily invested in anybody but myself because it does not pay. In fact, in this day and age if people know you are kind hearted and will come to the rescue, you will be used and subsequently sh***ed on.
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Postby S_Parc » June 3rd, 2011, 10:53 pm

Northamericanguy wrote:
S_Parc wrote:Now, as for high class escorts, I think some of you miss the major point here. And that point is to be able to send the person away, after some fun times. The idea is not about dragging a person around and dealing with her baggage.


Yes, exactly. And to add to that, when you do the math, an escort/prostitute comes out far cheaper apposed to marriage (even worse if it fails) because even though you do pay more up front for an escort, you don't have the hidden cost of setting up the woman's future, the hidden cost of dealing with her baggage that could be costly, or the cost of having children which usually comes not long after marriage, or the cost of her f*** your mind up leaving you emotionally bankrupt.


Perhaps one of the reasons why some guys are so touchy on this matter could have something to do with love-addiction a/o co-dependency issues. For example, some folks date each other because they can't stand being alone. Thus, their whole relationship becomes a way of not dealing with the existential issues which are inherent in post-modern societies.

Thus, in seeing 5 star GFE escorts, they get lost in that whole fantasy of Julia Roberts in 'Pretty Woman' and soon, they start to adopt her as a surrogate make believe girlfriend/wife. Well ... I see that as a type of personal problem which was pre-unresolved. In other words, if the GFE was basically a companion, you're fond of but you don't really wish to see her all of the time, then I don't really get the issue. On the other hand, if one's routinely alone and fantasies about being with this person to fill some void, then I can see where this anxiety might come from.


Northamericanguy wrote:As far as men living longer due to marriage, I really don't know if that's true. What I will say is, I'm only going by what I see based on my trade in which deals with older women and many of the men died around 45-60 (+or-) depending on their job.

You figure, many of these married men had to work much longer and take on dangerous jobs to support their families and make sure their wives were set up for retirement long after they died. Also, many of these men are living lives not really worth living because all they do is work.


I think the real story about that study was that happily married couples lived longer. Well, that's great. That's like filtering 50+% of the sample pool (the divorced), titrating out the miserable "Married With Children" crowd (another 20-30%), the ones with borderline personalities (another hidden percentage), and then declaring success on the top 10-20%, based upon mixing up epistemological data between in-congruent data pools. Perhaps there is a future at the blackjack tables for all of us :wink: ?
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » June 3rd, 2011, 11:10 pm

djfourmoney wrote:
If your a prostitute you have "issues" no matter how seemingly well adjusted some people are, they are always hiding some sort of demon. Don't me mislead into thinking that you can just "Pay somebody to leave" because at some point it will become endless and an empty bed will become all too familiar.
..


I disagree. I happen to believe that most women are prostitutes, or that they prostitute themselves in one way or another and that the ones who get married are the ones who wish to disguise their "trade," so they are dishonest from the START.

djfourmoney, many women marry men for their money/security ALONE but really inside they actually despise their husbands (I think this is why cheating is so common). The idiot de-balled, "she can do no wrong" husbands are so clueless she can get way with it for decades.

djfourmoney, wives are called long term prostitutes, and they are talked about in underground pimp books, they say a wife is the highest form of prostitution there is.
Last edited by NorthAmericanguy on June 3rd, 2011, 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby OutWest » June 3rd, 2011, 11:15 pm

djfourmoney wrote:
S_Parc wrote:Lots of good points and of course, whether or not I agree, this discussion needs to occur, since we won't be getting this kind of candor outside of a forum like this.

As for marriage and longevity, I believe that that study refers to happily married men, not dysfunctional families. And I think that a lot of people stay married, despite being unhappy, because they can't fathom living alone. Unfortunately, I know a lot of persons in this category and I'm certain that many of them have just as many psychosomatic illnesses as single persons.

Now, as for high class escorts, I think some of you miss the major point here. And that point is to be able to send the person away, after some fun times. The idea is not about dragging a person around and dealing with her baggage.

As for living with families and such, I've done a lot of that activity and now, I don't care for it, as much as I used to. After those love-ins, usually some truth comes out and then there are skeletons in the closet, etc. Yes, it's an interesting aspect of life but that's it, an aspect of it.

And finally, the whole Milton thing, 'Gain the World and Lose Your Soul', well... what world? I don't have psychic powers over other people's thoughts and behavior patterns? At most, I can be in balance with them. Being able to pay one's bills hardly qualifies as 'gaining the world' and then finally, what religion or practice are you espousing where your happiness is entirely depended upon others? I don't believe that that's a way of gaining one's soul, if you believe that the soul was *detached* to begin with. Historically speaking, the Buddha had left his kingdom & family to find enlightenment. Many other Shamans have gone off into the mountains/deserts, on their own, to find their own way & later become healers and teachers for others.


Again...

If your a prostitute you have "issues" no matter how seemingly well adjusted some people are, they are always hiding some sort of demon. Don't me mislead into thinking that you can just "Pay somebody to leave" because at some point it will become endless and an empty bed will become all too familiar.

Bad Marriages are a product of constant poor decision making, I can't say that enough. It starts with marrying the WRONG WOMAN. Seldom are men completely fooled my a woman's charms and if you think you will fall under the gaze of a woman, find some objective friends QUICKLY. Friends are usually the best judge of significant others ONLY if they put ASIDE any personal agendas and can see things objectively.

That does not mean listening to your mother if she says your girlfriend looks like a slut but you know the truth about her. She may just not have been taught to dress properly, that can be corrected. Behavior problems CAN only be ADJUSTED, NOT CORRECTED.

You seem to mistake Martial Arts as some sort of enlightenment. Its learning to control your anger and using FORCE as the only REAL last resort, not a "light bulb" moment.

I'm being CRITICAL because seldom are people on another plane, they are down with the rest of us. I'm not looking for some grand answer or have a need to respond to the "burning bush". Chances are you are going to have failing health in your declining years, all your relatives will be dead or close too it. My father is not the only one to die likely too soon but MEN DO DIE SOONER THAN WOMEN because MEN are often times ALONE in their declining years, FACT, FACT, FACT.

You also forget that even if you speak the language fluently and become accustom you're still a Westerner in a Asian country.....


There are very few "old and alone" oldsters in the Philippines.(Except for broken old guys from the USA stuck whorehouses) I am back in the USA until later this
month and it is striking how lonely much of the country is. I mean, sit and die alone, bone and
soul crushing loneliness. It is a heartbreak to even witness it.

If I am old in the USA, my chances of being old and alone are very very high...90% ?
My chances for that in the Philippines ? ZERO.
Now it is true, I have put in time...built family, two fil-am kids, one Filipina ex
(interestingly, I am still well connected to her family) and my current GF and family.

It's a different kind of gig in the islands, I'm in a rural area though. I cannot tolerate
metro Manila area, what a shit-hole...

I have no interest in convincing men that the Philippines is some kind of paradise.
It does however, offer numbers of options not available in the the USA.
Increasingly I see the USA being populated by vacant souls...a nation of he-bitches
and she-prics. There might be 20% of the population that has some sense of
humanity about them, and time will tell if they can manage to turn the tide.


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Postby NorthAmericanguy » June 3rd, 2011, 11:39 pm

S_Parc wrote:
Perhaps one of the reasons why some guys are so touchy on this matter could have something to do with love-addiction a/o co-dependency issues. For example, some folks date each other because they can't stand being alone.


That^^, and the fact that western guys are beaten over the head from birth that the option of using brothels/prostitutes for the rest of your life is a bad idea and that you must be a "pervert" and can't get laid. Never mind the HISTORY that warriors from all respective cultures (such as the samurai) frequented brothels/prostitutes because often times they were forbidden to get married.

We western guys MUST get married, or we must have a GF, otherwise we're not living our life to the fullest and we're missing out on all those special experiences with that special loved one. ** Break out the Violins***
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Postby S_Parc » June 3rd, 2011, 11:44 pm

Northamericanguy wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:Don't me mislead into thinking that you can just "Pay somebody to leave" because at some point it will become endless and an empty bed will become all too familiar.
..


I disagree. I happen to believe that most women are prostitutes, or that they prostitute themselves in one way or another and that the ones who get married are the ones who wish to disguise their "trade," so they are dishonest from the START.

djfourmoney, many women marry men for their money/security ALONE but really inside they actually despise their husbands (I think this is why cheating is so common). The idiot de-balled, "she can do no wrong" husbands are so clueless she can get way with it for decades.


This is quite a grounded remark and for the most part, I would agree.

As for the 'pay to leave', this is where djfourmoney is missing the cue, I think. The idea is for them to leave, after the session (a night, a weekend, or even a week). And the idea of it being 'endless' makes no sense because if my week is full of non-sexual activities (or even quiet meditation), then where's the issue? I don't see my bed as a co-joining field between me and a woman. My bed is for me to unwind and get some sleep; I like being the sole occupant of my sleeping quarters. I did those slumber parties back in school.
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Postby S_Parc » June 3rd, 2011, 11:51 pm

Northamericanguy wrote:
S_Parc wrote:
Perhaps one of the reasons why some guys are so touchy on this matter could have something to do with love-addiction a/o co-dependency issues. For example, some folks date each other because they can't stand being alone.


That^^, and the fact that western guys are beaten over the head from birth that the option of using brothels/prostitutes for the rest of your life is a bad idea and that you must be a "pervert" and can't get laid. Never mind the HISTORY that warriors from all respective cultures (such as the samurai) frequented brothels/prostitutes because often times they were forbidden to get married.

We western guys MUST get married, or we must have a GF, otherwise we're not living our life to the fullest and we're missing out on all those special experiences with that special loved one. ** Break out the Violins***


This part, I know.

I'd think that the fellows, who frequent this forum, may have a stronger connection to their own inner psychological motivations (need to belong, co-dependency, etc) as oppose to the ones imposed upon them by the Sisterhood of Applied Mindlessness.
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Postby djfourmoney » June 4th, 2011, 9:01 am

Northamericanguy wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:
If your a prostitute you have "issues" no matter how seemingly well adjusted some people are, they are always hiding some sort of demon. Don't me mislead into thinking that you can just "Pay somebody to leave" because at some point it will become endless and an empty bed will become all too familiar.
..


I disagree. I happen to believe that most women are prostitutes, or that they prostitute themselves in one way or another and that the ones who get married are the ones who wish to disguise their "trade," so they are dishonest from the START.

djfourmoney, many women marry men for their money/security ALONE but really inside they actually despise their husbands (I think this is why cheating is so common). The idiot de-balled, "she can do no wrong" husbands are so clueless she can get way with it for decades.

djfourmoney, wives are called long term prostitutes, and they are talked about in underground pimp books, they say a wife is the highest form of prostitution there is.


So what's your answer then? And why do I want to have children and a wife? Because of society's pressures? No its a desire because the alternative SUCKS.

Constantly alone, screw that. Paying bitches for attention? Hell no. I don't have to do that. Paying for sex is a MEANS TO AN END and nothing else. Ask me I'm ACTIVELY f***ing prostitutes down in Mexico (TJ). I don't get any particular "Joy" out of it. Its better than beating off while watching the same porn you've watched 10 times before.

People who think like you do are already lost, there's no talking about the clear advantages to being in a loving relationship with a woman that loves 100% of you and all your dam flaws...
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Postby djfourmoney » June 4th, 2011, 9:11 am

S_Parc wrote:
Northamericanguy wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:Don't me mislead into thinking that you can just "Pay somebody to leave" because at some point it will become endless and an empty bed will become all too familiar.
..


I disagree. I happen to believe that most women are prostitutes, or that they prostitute themselves in one way or another and that the ones who get married are the ones who wish to disguise their "trade," so they are dishonest from the START.

djfourmoney, many women marry men for their money/security ALONE but really inside they actually despise their husbands (I think this is why cheating is so common). The idiot de-balled, "she can do no wrong" husbands are so clueless she can get way with it for decades.


This is quite a grounded remark and for the most part, I would agree.

As for the 'pay to leave', this is where djfourmoney is missing the cue, I think. The idea is for them to leave, after the session (a night, a weekend, or even a week). And the idea of it being 'endless' makes no sense because if my week is full of non-sexual activities (or even quiet meditation), then where's the issue? I don't see my bed as a co-joining field between me and a woman. My bed is for me to unwind and get some sleep; I like being the sole occupant of my sleeping quarters. I did those slumber parties back in school.


Why do you think I'm missing the point? I don't miss anything. You just don't value companionship and whatever has happen in your family has turned you negative.
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Re: Without children, my alternate future ...

Postby Jackal » June 4th, 2011, 10:04 am

Master wrote:Part of community? Not so sure about that one. i havent been part of any community my whole life and I usually like Doc feel disdain for how the rats pull strings. Not that there is anything wrong with doing good and spending time with good people but to need a community I dont feel is necessary.

Well, there are different levels of involvement with a community. It's not like it's a binary choice between being a complete loner and being the mayor of the town. You can spend one weekend talking to lots of people and spend the next weekend alone reading and meditating or hiking alone in the forest. You have the freedom the choose.

Sure, in one sense, we don't NEED anyone else to survive biologically: as long as there is food, water, and oxygen, our bodies will continue to function, but as humans, part of the reason that we have such, big, complicated brains is because we are social animals. And deep down, emotionally most people DO want to be around people who are nice to them and whom they can talk with at least a little bit.

Just the difference of moving from a place where everyone is rude to you to a place where only some people are rude to you is enormous. I live in a small town and many people around the town are kind to me because they know who I am. They smile, they help me, they have little conversations with me. I often see my students on the street who wave to me. I go to events at my school and in my town. My students invite me to go places with them. I'm a minor celebrity.

Like most of the guys here, when I first arrived in Hungary, I was still a paranoid, angry, selfish guy from the US (which isn't our fault: it's just what living in the US as an outsider for decades does to you). Gradually, I was able to reduce those qualities in myself.

I didn't expect to like teaching as much as I do. I was always a loner and when I was younger, I had always hated people who were younger than me. Also, my most of my living family members are total assholes so my feeling of isolation was amplified. But teaching gave me hundreds of people to care about and get to know and awakened my heart.

I am wise enough to know that I can't predict the future. And if you find the right environment to live in, you might be surprised at how much your mind can transform, as well. Just be open to possibilites and don't shut them out by pre-planning too much. When you are in a more positive location, walk down a street you've never walked down before, shop in a store you've never shopped in before, talk to someone you've never talked to before: try something new and don't get locked into the prison of habit!
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Postby The Arab » June 4th, 2011, 11:38 am

I have concluded from this thread S_Parc will die a lonely broken old man.

If only he knew his folly, but that is not my place... he will learn by and by and curse his life.
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Postby odbo » June 4th, 2011, 1:02 pm

You have to remember that we Americans have been heavily socially engineered, more so than anyone else on the planet. Moving abroad might make a man feel less miserable but it's not the complete solution, at least for a man who cares about things like truth and duty. Don't expect "damaged goods" to act like nature intended until they rip out the brainwashing. At the moment I think it's more popular to call people like me conspiracy nuts than to look at things honestly, explore within, and work on oneself.

Who needs that when you can lobotomize yourself with 18-23 year old asian girls from poor countries virtually every night.
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Postby S_Parc » June 4th, 2011, 4:49 pm

The Arab wrote:I have concluded from this thread S_Parc will die a lonely broken old man.

If only he knew his folly, but that is not my place... he will learn by and by and curse his life.



I'm aware that I'll die but lonely, nah, that's for folks like you because in the end, that entourage won't follow you to the other side. IMO, that'll inhibit the transit more than anything else.

And I'm not debating you on spiritually, this is really for others to read because the mood manipulation you're pulling tends to work on the less initiated.

I suspect that I'll be able to handle my final days quite well.
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