Discuss and talk about any general topic.
I don't get something.
Since so many immigrants have reported that America is not what they thought it would be, and are often disappointed, then wouldn't word have gotten back to their home country long ago that the US is not a land of open, expressive, happy people bathing in riches, freedom and joy? Many immigrants become fat, grumpy and lonely. So you'd think that millions of disappointed immigrants would affect the perception of America back in their homeland right? So why does the propaganda about the US still persist?
Why do most people in other countries, especially Asia, still perceive America as a super friendly vibrant place where people are easy to meet, happy, wealthy and free? Most people in the Philippines, for example, still have this impression of America, even though many Filipino immigrants and bloggers have reported that the US is not a paradise after all, but a lonely workaholic place full of stress. And many Mexicans are still trying to get into America, despite the fact that Mexicans are not happier in America.
So why does this propaganda persist? Shouldn't the rest of the world know the truth by now about the reality of life in America - if not from their own media, then at least through word of mouth from millions of immigrants?
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
hey hey winston buddy its good to hear from you again my friend.
as far as I know mind control can be a very effective tool to get people to do things you want them to do. this includes, desires, wants, dislikes, likes, and so forth. people all over the planet really don't own their lives. therefore i believe mind control in their media and word of mouth inside the country from people that have NOT visited america will continue the propoganda.
Alot of foreign people here say they like america. But i look at them and their lives. they are very isolated, anti-social, and every man is some potential pyscho to them. outside of starbucks that is. hahaaha. all the foreign women here are trying to avoid a whore image. so they won't want men to approach them for fear of being seen as a whore. yet they say they like it here anyways!!!.
your right mexicans are NOT happy here. very disgruntled. they don't look like happy people here at all. yet they like it here.
so when these foreign people come back to their country they will say how nice america is and they enjoyed it in the USA. maybe this keeps the myth about america being a paradise persistant in those socieites.
The answer is simple- the number of sad people reporting back about America is smaller than the number of TVs in every home and Hollywood sitcoms or movies being beamed into those homes through those TVs. In addition to that, you have DVDs for sale on every corner.
After a Joe Foreigner comes home , he flips on the TV and sees the friendly, happy faces of "Friends", the humorous "Simpsons", etc. That happens more often than a visit from a disgruntled returnee. And most immigrants are in the US to send money back home. Unless these are intellectuals, they do not care. Their social life is not with the Gringos.
Also, you do have to keep in mind that a Filipina nurse makes some $300 a month in the Philippines but some $3500 in the US. She can work hard and send home some $2000 a month.
Loneliness, shmoneliness. To a Filipina nurse, being able to save $2000 a month is a dream come true. And she will have a car, too. Wow!
I just spoke to a Filipina caregiver- she is in the province and is only making $65 a month. She is dying to go to the US to make 25 times that amount. And she will be happy and her family back home will be open and friendly to her as she sends home $1500 a month and who cares about the rest?
When I was in Saudi, I did not care that the Saudis were not open. But the $5000 a month tax free sounded great!
So, people come to the US to make dollars and to earn good salaries to be later sent to the cheap countries where they live. They are not in the USA to socialize. The men bring women from back home or support them there, the women find American BFs- and everyone is happy.
We are a small minority that is complaining. Most people are too busy making money and the Americans they meet at work are pleasant enough.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Movies and TV. Anyone watch the TV show Friends?
Anyone here actually know an individual or group of people that had a similar quality of life?
Didn't think so.
P.S. Just read Ladislavs reply, he beat me to the punch.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Cool story, bro.
alot of what you said makes sense.
An armenian friend told me if you are a romantic you will not like america. but if your here to work you will like it. oh well.
Some mexican men admit the mexican women in america are worst then countryside. they admit that the women in their country are alot better. but when they get here to the states they start to change. i have seen this first hand. Very unpleasant mexican women sometimes. but the ones visiting are super fantastic.
Even the Jews from Israel are also isolated working 12 hour days to make the money you were talking about. i do chat with them. very friendly people. and the women are the pretty good quality.
The american environment is nothing but pure slavery. work hours and hours. barely any time to self. and repeat the cycle. like cattle. that is really sad. they have no life here. although i do admire foreign people for living here to support their family at home. It's just another reason for this romantic such as my self to leave it.
i want to be free and not a slave. so i am almost there actually thank goodness.
I don't think immigrants perceive it as a open, friendly and happy place...but a land of riches. I heard again and again among immigrants (particularly Mexicans), that they come here "to work" "for a better life" "to give my (future) children what I didn't have" They come here for material gain not to meet explore cultures, find spouses etc This is the case for Latino immigrants since they are usually poor. The well to do usually stay in their countries.
They are motivated by money and material gain. I guess they say they are happy/satisfiable because they can survive and provide for themselves and or families. Not because their social life rocks.
My dad came to the US because a friend told him there was jobs there and how to get a worker permit to come here. He and my mom sometimes talk about returning to Mexico. They do not like the inner city suburbia that is my hometown. It's loud, polluted, ghetto and rushed. The people are a mixed bag. My mom has plenty of friends and my dad has a few (he is a lone wolf type). Although they commented you can't trust people here and you have to watch your back.
My dad says when extended Mexican families come to the US, they get together and see each other often but as time comes by, it decreases and then stops. They become busy with their lives and don't bother to visit or call them. If/when they do, my aunt (mom's sister) calls and says "ay, nade me pela". (Literally in Spanish: No one peels me) It basically means no one pays any attention to me.
I remember growing up, I saw my cousins (mom's side) every weekend..the closest ones distance wise. It decreased as I got older and stopped when they moved to Texas.
As for propaganda, I guess younger people all over the world see glamorous images of America. If they are especially money motivated, they go to the states. If it isn't what they expect, perhaps they turn to cognitive dissonance to make themselves feel better. I'm only speculating...and blabbering..
"Preservation of one's own culture does not require contempt or disrespect for other cultures." - Cesar Chavez
Rage said it best:
I'll jail and bury those committed
And smother the rest in greed
Crawl with me into tomorrow
Or I'll drag you to your grave
I'm deep inside your children
They'll betray you in my name
Anyone that comes to America will become American. Even if they do not want to.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Cool story, bro.
that was very very insightful.
sounds like they slowly get assimilated and then detached from family communication. it's really sad here in the country. mexicans can be very friendly but i almost never see them communicate with eachother after work is done. very scary and sad indeed !!!.
I was making that, and I was on this forum, and looking for any way and every way to get out. The money was great, but life sucked. I was unhappy, and felt life would pass me by while I toiled until I met my grave.
I probably made more like 10K per year in the Philippines, but it was all under my control. I worked on what I wanted and worked when I wanted. (yeah I should've worked more) but I was a whole lot happier. I quickly found out that I didn't at all miss the HD TVs, hundreds of DVDs, Playstation 2, Xbox, Sports car and all the other worthless things I accumulated. These things, by the way, were only recognized as worthless when contrasted to living real life. Were I back in America, I would probably want all that stuff again, because what else is there?
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
On that note ... I think if guys in the USA were making let's say $15K per month (post taxes), and flying to Montreal on weekends with other male friends, discussing history, philosophy, political science, and the natural sciences, while having tons of stags and French-Canadian escort gals for a wild time, I think many American guys would be quite happy. From a Massachusetts p.o.v., that's the life of a Kennedy .
Thus, there's a bit of a structural problem where while the US is always work/vocationally focused, the social scene for the middle class has deteriorated since the early 80s.
"No one peels me" That's just hilarious. XD
The US is a financial boon for foreign workers. Even in a recession, foreign workers still believe they can make tons of money, compared to the salaries(if any) in their native country. Not only that, but the US still supports industries where foreigners can excel because of their native backgrounds - caregiving and culinary skills. Of course many don't lead good social lives, because many native people still don't accept foreigners easily, especially if they suspect illegal immigration. Same for any other country.
A foreign H1B tech worker or engineer making 2/3rds the salary of even 1/2 the salary of a native born U.S. person is still far better off in the U.S. than in their home country. It may be a social blackhole but $40,000-50,000 a year is a goldmine for these people. That's why the whole "companies lack engineers and IT people" stuff is pure nonsense. The job market is saturated with these people companies just don't want to hire them at top dollar.
Because it's possible to attain a "middle class" American income and lifestyle whereas in their home country even with the most determined toil it's extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve middle class. In Thailand I do encounter smart hard working people in skilled positions but their salary is absolutely laughable (25,000-40,000 baht a month) doing stuff like engineering. Whereas in the U.S. they'd be making $40,000 a year at the minimum and at least able to have a positive bank account.
Amen to that. I was 13 years in IT and got laid off. Spent 1.5 years looking for new work and couldn't land anything from entry-level to management level. In my last position I was a senior engineer and earning 100K a year. Now I'm in Italy and looking at earning $2250/month ($27K per year) at best. On the other hand, I have no mortgage here, living with the in-laws, who are very accommodating and help with my son. Plus, the healthcare is free except for a small co-pay of about $20/visit (but just to specialists; GP visits are free). In the States I was paying up to $1500/month for health insurance. Not paying heath insurance also saves me about $18000/year, which is essentially extra pay for me, so my total pay per year would be about $45000. I also don't have to save up for university for my son, since it's basically free here. Of course, you're paying New York City prices for everything here!
Quote a humbling experience, to say the least. You're right, there are few decent IT jobs left in the US and I was too overpriced for the market, I think, even though I would've gladly taken 1/2 that amount. I think my IT career is now dead, so I'm working on my TEFL cert online, so I can teach in a private language school. It might also give me more flexibility, too, so I can teach around the world, like Ladislav always talks about.
Last edited by Think Different on Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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