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This was one of the reasons why I was against (illegal) immigration in the past (you know, the "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" concept), but since I joined this movement and foum and my eyes started opening to various subjects, I decided that I was going to rethink everything I had been taught.

I was against ("illegal") immigration because the immigrants (mostly Hispanic) refused to assimilate into our culture and learn English. After I found this site/movement and joined up, now I ask myself, "With the way things are in America, why the hell would anyone want to assimilate into this toxic culture and learn our language, at the risk of their souls?"

It is possible that the refusal of these immigrants to assimilate into general American culture may be the smartest decision one can make. Maybe they are smart enough to know that assimilating into the Western culture (and English language) could very well cost them their souls.


Then again, I could be incorrect.

These are just my thoughts on this matter.

The_Hero_of_Men wrote:This was one of the reasons why I was against (illegal) immigration in the past (you know, the "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" concept), but since I joined this movement and foum and my eyes started opening to various subjects, I decided that I was going to rethink everything I had been taught.

I was against ("illegal") immigration because the immigrants (mostly Hispanic) refused to assimilate into our culture and learn English. After I found this site/movement and joined up, now I ask myself, "With the way things are in America, why the hell would anyone want to assimilate into this toxic culture and learn our language, at the risk of their souls?"

It is possible that the refusal of these immigrants to assimilate into general American culture may be the smartest decision one can make. Maybe they are smart enough to know that assimilating into the Western culture (and English language) could very well cost them their souls.


Then again, I could be incorrect.

These are just my thoughts on this matter.

Excellent observation!

Think Different wrote:

The_Hero_of_Men wrote:This was one of the reasons why I was against (illegal) immigration in the past (you know, the "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" concept), but since I joined this movement and foum and my eyes started opening to various subjects, I decided that I was going to rethink everything I had been taught.

I was against ("illegal") immigration because the immigrants (mostly Hispanic) refused to assimilate into our culture and learn English. After I found this site/movement and joined up, now I ask myself, "With the way things are in America, why the hell would anyone want to assimilate into this toxic culture and learn our language, at the risk of their souls?"

It is possible that the refusal of these immigrants to assimilate into general American culture may be the smartest decision one can make. Maybe they are smart enough to know that assimilating into the Western culture (and English language) could very well cost them their souls.


Then again, I could be incorrect.

These are just my thoughts on this matter.

Excellent observation!

Personally, I feel that I am regaining my soul, bit by bit-- slowly but surely.

I think that there will be even more of interesting posts to this very thread will come forth.

E_Irizarry wrote:I think that there will be even more of interesting posts to this very thread will come forth.

Positive or Negative?

Both. But more positive than the negative ones though.

The_Hero_of_Men wrote: now I ask myself, "With the way things are in America, why the hell would anyone want to assimilate into this toxic culture and learn our language, at the risk of their souls?"

Answer: To get things done and to know when people are talking about you!

Knowing another language is knowledge, and knowledge is power.

So if you're going to be living somewhere for a long time, empower yourself by learning the language--even if you think the people who live there are total shit-bags.

But yeah, it's not stupid of Hispanic immigrants in the US to maintain their culture and their closer sense of family. Good thinking.

"We are Borg. Drop your shields, and prepare to be boarded. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."





The immigrants might be the ones boarding us, but America is the borg. Assimilation = dehumanizing. Don't lose your soul for anything!

Jackal wrote:Knowing another language is knowledge, and knowledge is power..

Knowledge IS power. Knowing yourself is knowledge. Any retard can learn another language, even animals can learn hundreds of words. What you get in school is education and in formation. What will learning the sodomite's tongue do to an illegal immigrant? It might make him slightly more marketable for jobs. That will get him money, maybe enough to become middle-class, but is that power? KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. Understanding Americans and American tv will only destroy his soul and trap him in the net.

The explanation is far more prosaic. They are just not interested. They are there to make money and get out and go home. They have no time or money or any special interest to study English. Most do not like to leave home, family and their community and go to the US. They have their own culture and country they are very happy with that alas, at this time cannot feed them.

Same with Americans who go abroad and who live in Japan or Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, etc, They are there to make money and go home. Very few, only one in like 10,000 want to learn Arabic or Japanese.

Here in the Philippines, many Americans - I would say some 100,000, are retired. You can count on the fingers of one hand those who have learned the language, watch Filipino movies or adapt to the Filipino culture. They are not interested and don't care. And it is a personal choice.

And even if you adapt, you are still a foreigner. In case of Mexicans, they will still be called Mexicans and still not accepted and looked down upon. So, why even bother?

We're talking about the ones who bring their families here, which is the majority of them. Plenty of Mexicans live in Los Angeles for 20 years and don't know a word of English. Same for Chinese in San Francisco Chinatown. I don't think even those "Minutemen" vigilante border patrol cocksuckers talk too much shit about the migrant ones who come to work for a year in construction and go back to feed their family. This is not a right or wrong answer. The reality is most Latinos are f***ing dumb. While Americans are too lazy and have gotten too dumb to learn Spanish. If more Americans went to Latin America (at least Mexico) they might see what they are missing with a corporate run culture, and understand why Latinos don't want to assimilate. The bigger blame for this conflict goes on Americans because they're actually in a position to change (stop believing simplistic nationalistic propaganda) and choose not to. But stupid is as stupid does.

odbo wrote:We're talking about the ones who bring their families here, which is the majority of them. Plenty of Mexicans live in Los Angeles for 20 years and don't know a word of English. Same for Chinese in San Francisco Chinatown. I don't think even those "Minutemen" vigilante border patrol cocksuckers talk too much shit about the migrant ones who come to work for a year in construction and go back to feed their family. This is not a right or wrong answer. The reality is most Latinos are f***ing dumb. While Americans are too lazy and have gotten too dumb to learn Spanish. If more Americans went to Latin America (at least Mexico) they might see what they are missing with a corporate run culture, and understand why Latinos don't want to assimilate. The bigger blame for this conflict goes on Americans because they're actually in a position to change (stop believing simplistic nationalistic propaganda) and choose not to. But stupid is as stupid does.

Well, the complaint that immigrants do not want to assimilate has been around since the 1700s? I guess. If not the 1600? With an average Joe Immigrant, the assimilation process takes 2-3 generations- it is very difficult to abandon the old culture and fit into a new one within one generation especially if you have a wife and kids from the old country and relatives and friends from there. That means that they all will now have to start speaking English to each other and act American. A virtual impossibility linguistically and practically speaking. I tried to do that with my family and we had nothing but fights- my father would complain that I'd turned my parents into "bellowing animals" as they had such a hard time learning English in their 40ies. And we did not really want to live in the US, we simply had no choice.
I do not think even the Pilgrims wanted to go and live in America. It was a necessity.
Add to this the scorn and hostility and being treated like idiots that these immigrants encounter daily if they try and speak accented English to the American mainstream people on the phone or in person and there you go! Some have succeeded, the ones that have dropped the accent ( must usually be done before one is 12 years old). And no one with an accent will ever be seen as an American socially. Look at Arnold and how he is treated. Granted he has achieved virtual assimilation but look at the stuff they write about him - calling him a "foreigner", "not one of us" and all kinds of things.
You do need a bit of a friendlier society, too if you want those immigrants to assimilate.
Plus most immigrants like what you have described do not really 'want' to be in the US. They are just looking for jobs. Just like many Americans do not want to be in Saudi and Kuwait. But many go and stay there and bring their wives and kids with them. And after 20 years there, not a word in Arabic.

Mexicans are a blessing to the USA. They are friendly, religious, polite and warm people. They work hard, they have great food and music. If the US becomes a second Mexico, it will be a great thing.

odbo wrote:We're talking about the ones who bring their families here, which is the majority of them. Plenty of Mexicans live in Los Angeles for 20 years and don't know a word of English. Same for Chinese in San Francisco Chinatown.

Most Latino immigrants know some English but don't speak it. There is a difference between knowing and speaking. My parents lived in the LA area for 40 years and don't speak English. One of the reasons, my mom told me is because she doesn't need to (especially in LA) and she's embarrassed of her accent.

They know, which I mean understand, some English. I don't know their grasp of English but they know enough to understand when I speak to my friends in English. An example of this is when I was in high school...

*on the phone with my friend*
Me: A party tomorrow? Nice. I'm there...I won't tell my parents about it. I'll tell them I went to a friend's house to study...I'll see you tomorrow..bye"

*the next day*
Mom: Yo oí lo que le digistes a tu amiga. No vas a ir a ese party ...llava los platos" (English: I heard what you told your friend. You aren't going..go wash dishes)
Me: Si, mami (Yes, mom)

*a few hours later*
Mom: Este papel llego en el correo en ingles, me lo puedes traducir? (This paper came in the mail in English..can you translate it for me?)
Me: Ok (when I'm really thinking...WTF? )

Anyways..It seems Latino immigrants (and others) seem to find and/or seek places among their own for comfort. These folks tend to be older and/or poorer. The older folks can't learn languages as good as younger folks and the poor are too busy working minimum wage jobs to learn English. But the more educated, younger folks assimilate quicker..think of the Mexican immigrant laborer vs the Indian or Chinese immigrant working in the IT industry. The latter tends to assimilate more and quicker than the latter.

Here I will disagree with Ladislav. Some of the traits Mexicans exhibit may be good. However, when you are talking numbers of around 35 million, it is no longer a matter of adding spice to a stagnant culture, it is more of an invasion.

Added to that, I had to pay mountains of cash to FIND my wife, GET her to America, then process her citizenship. Probably upwards of $100,000 in the final tally. But some Mexican peasant walks across the border and gets free medical and college?

Bullshit.

I am willing to respect any person or culture...so long as the sentiment is returned.

These rants about immigrants are always funny. Here the facts...

A majority of Brown People that come from Mexico and Central America barely have an education, especially if they came from a rural part of the country. Some of them can't even spell things correctly in Spanish, how the f**k do you expect them to learn English? While they, the adults might not known a lick of English, their children DO and are often bilingual or speak English only. I've heard several immigrant stories of friend's of mine who's mother used to beat them into speaking English around the house because their parents wanted them to assimilate.

I have known people and even dated a Mexican Girl who was college grad in Mexico City and spoke excellent English, not one hint of a accent.

Do not tell me a majority of these people have no interest in learning English that simply is not true. Where I went to school for A+ there are no classes this summer but for ESL (English As A Second Language) and those classes wouldn't exist if there were not people that wanted to attend classes.

Many of these people are taking jobs you simply don't want. Mostly because the pay sucks or its dangerous. Who do you think works in the majority of factory farms that dot the landscape? For the jobs that typically went to teenagers in the past, well those jobs are being taken by immigrants and there's hardly been any increase in pay. They passed an anti-immigrant law in Georgia and chased out all the migrant farm workers and guess what? They are 11,000+ workers short of picking the tomato and other harvest this season. Do you really think lazy ass White and Black people who are unemployed currently are going to work a job that pays $9 an hour with no benefits? I'm unemployed and I rather give my plasma away for $30-$50 a donation than work that type of job, call me lazy if you want.

I am watching RV Crazy on the Travel Channel. This Finish Immigrant has this wild looking Chevy Van/RV. He doesn't speak English well enough to speak on camera and lives in one of the largest Finish enclaves in South Florida and nobody is bitching about him I'm sure.

That's what is so funny about this immigrant debate. You are adopting what stupid White/Black People say all too often, is that they are stealing American jobs (FALSE), qualify for all sorts of public services (FALSE, their children might benefit but the adults often do not, directly, ebt/cash is indirectly benefiting them is for the children) and don't want to learn about our culture or language (FALSE).

The majority want to learn English and want to be involved in our culture, I say IMPROVING IT with often times more progressive thinking. Republicans know this and want to restrict immigrants. They know low turnout elections to their benefit. Which I find interest that so many Black People have jumped on the anti-immigrant bandwagon as the Republican Party has engaged in voter intimidation and cry's about voter fraud, ACORN and other things that are patently false. Engaged in clearly racist demonizing of Obama and other Black People.

And your concerned about Brown people from Mexico and Central America? Talk about having your priorities in the wrong place...

Grunt wrote:Here I will disagree with Ladislav. Some of the traits Mexicans exhibit may be good. However, when you are talking numbers of around 35 million, it is no longer a matter of adding spice to a stagnant culture, it is more of an invasion.

Added to that, I had to pay mountains of cash to FIND my wife, GET her to America, then process her citizenship. Probably upwards of $100,000 in the final tally. But some Mexican peasant walks across the border and gets free medical and college?

Bullshit.

I am willing to respect any person or culture...so long as the sentiment is returned.

You likely overpaid, there's a guy on RU who's Canadian that spent less than $5K total on the whole adventure.

My friend Tanja paid for HALF of her paperwork when she married her husband, she back-door the system she's German.

For Americans complaining about immigration I'm here to tell you there's much larger problems to solve than this.