Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.
View Active Topics View Your Posts Latest 100 Topics FAQ Topics Mobile Friendly Theme
Discuss and talk about any general topic.
What countries have you been to that you've receive a lot of attention or respect just for being a foreigner?
I had the best experience in Indonesia. Lots of people wanted to take my picture and talk to me.
But I don't think foreigners are respected as much here in Thailand(you can guess why..)
I've never been treated as a rock star in any foreign country (about 30 I've visited). The only thing that impressed them was when they saw that I took the time to learn their language or at least make an attempt. Then they treated me special; that's when they bring you into their inner circle. Otherwise, I was just another guy.
Something to keep in mind: as the US economy worsens, people abroad are starting to wake up and see that the US isn't actually paved in gold, the dollar is weak, that the "American dream" is vanishing, and some of your mystique as an American is also waning. You will find that you're becoming just another foreigner. I wouldn't overplay the "I'm an American/look at me" card too much these days. I'm seeing it here in Europe very clearly.
In the Philippines, that is the case, especially in the Visayan regions ( Southern). And being an American is a wow to the masses. Raised on Hollywood movies, every American to many here is a demi-god-like being that is born with a million dollars to his name and lives in sunny Hollywood. An American is also a super hero that had saved their country from the Japanese. This is how the populace sees you. Never mind the recession, high debt, unemployment in the US. None of that exists in the mind of an average Filipino.
In Thailand, they respect Oriental foreigners but not white ones- and no it is not sex tourism thing originally, the latter is just another charge to the farang's already bad name. Because Singaporeans and Malaysians and Japanese and Koreans also go to Thailand for sex and there is still respect for them and a big welcome.
White people are seen as invaders and ruiners of Thai culture as well as just a nuisance- they are a different, not a very welcome race with different, annoying customs. And the Thais have been taught that they are a never colonized master race of Asia and to mistrust the smelly farang.
I find the Thai attitude to white people similar to how Europeans ( used to) treat.view Jews.
Indonesia does seem to be good, though, although I do not think having a picture taken with you is a sign of respect/being a rock star. More like being a novelty. I take pictures with big apes in the zoo, it does not mean I think they are rock stars.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Lad, what have you been smoking lately? So you really feel like a rock-star in PI when youâ€™re really just seen as a walking ATM??? Rock stars donâ€™t pay their fans! Donâ€™t you get it? Almost any young local woman who has her own real money wants nothing to do with you as a foreigner. Your Tagalog and dialect fluency do not give you a â€˜local passâ€™.
As for Thailand, what you state is your opinion, not fact. And itâ€™s based on what, 2-3 years in country over 15 years ago? Consider a recent night-out to a non-farang Thai club by Stickman â€“ a white guy (around 40 I think) who speaks Thai and has been on-the-ground blogging about social and cultural aspects of Thailand along with its farang bar-industry for over 10 years up to the present. If locals hate white foreigners as you say, how do you explain the welcome he and many others get in Thai oriented venues? You really seem to be projecting your own bad experiences from the deep past onto the bigger picture. Thailand works for a lot of white guys, even those who speak fluent Thai and understand ever little utterance made by those around them.
Hereâ€™s the link: http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Stickman ... nd-Lee.htm
I've pasted it below:
Imagine a venue the size of a large old cinema auditorium, you know, the sort of auditorium that could seat 1,000 or so people, from the days of real cinemas. Imagine that it was as dark inside as a cinema auditorium, and with music much, much louder than a Thai cinema. Imagine some of the best artists in Thailand performing live. And imagine â€“ and I exaggerate not â€“ that 2/3 of the customers are female, and 95% are aged early 20s to late 30s. And imagine, if you will, that not only are a good percentage open-minded to meeting a white man, but you and your mate are the only two white guys in the place!
Stick and Lecherous Lee, Batman and Robin if you will, are burned out on Sukhumvit. We long ago tired of the country maidens, the relatively high prices and the downright poor service. Tourists may love them, but to us Cowboy and Nana are a bore. So these days we spend our nights out in Thai-style venues. And we have a blast!
Our favourite venue looks like a barn from outside. It's basic, but with that said, the lighting system is anything but basic, lighting up a large stage where various acts perform throughout the night. House bands some nights, guest performers on others. You wouldn't call the place flash, but it's clean and comfortably cool.
There are hundreds of tables. Not quite the plastic chairs and metal tables you get at streetside food vendors, but not really built for comfort either. At one end of each table is a small trolley where bottles of drinks for the table are placed - usually whiskey, mixers and a bucket of ice.
99.9% of the customers are Thai so that means Thai music with only the odd song in English. With that said, time it right and you might just see Thai stars perform mini concerts including some of the biggest names, like Loso or Carabao. The music is loud. Thai loud. Too loud.
Drinking is Thai-style and the vast majority of customers drink whiskey. Typically customers buy a large bottle, mixers are provided and everyone at the table drinks the same thing. On a per glass basis, it works out real cheap. Wait staff fall over themselves to make sure that your glass is near full, topping it up with your choice of soda, Coke or water.
Beer is available and is unusually good. Excellent micro-brewed beer is just 120 baht a half litre, and available in larger jugs or beer towers at prices that compare favourably with anything on Sukhumvit or Silom.
The dance floor is but the small spaces between tables. Pesky toilet attendants rub your back when you're hanging the sausage out at the urinal. In other words the venue is designed for Thais. Not a single consideration is given to foreigners. I don't even think there are menus in English and the staff are not expected to speak farang. We shouldn't like these venues, but we do. No, we love these places. Each week the excitement builds up, day by day, to our one night out a week in these venues. We really look forward to our night out Thai-style!
On this particular night we arrived early, around 8:30 PM. It was less than a 100 baht taxi ride from The Londoner, where we'd just stuffed ourselves on a gourmet meal for what amounted to peanuts. We somehow scored one of the best tables in the house, three tables from the front and slap in the centre. We had a great view of the stage, weren't too close to the speakers and most importantly, out tables was surrounded by other tables. And those tables were full of local women!
Being the only two foreigners in a cavernous venue makes us rather a novelty. We know it, we revel in it and we exploit it!
Really not that far from the farang district of Sukhumvit and only a few kilometres from the skytrain, it feels like we were in another city. Yet this is still Bangkok. The real Bangkok, not the farang version.
Meeting locals is easy. It's as simple as being neatly dressed and wearing your best smile. Look like you're fun, and the Thais want to know you. Smile a lot and they will be all over you. As they fill their glasses and toast each other, expect glasses to be thrust in your direction from adjacent tables as they dare to break the ice and say hello to the foreigners.
And it's not just the girls, but the guys who are keen to chat with foreigners. Inevitably it will be about football, but soon the conversation will turn to Thai women. They say that Thai men aren't keen on Westerners coming and taking their women, but where the middle classes are found, local guys are eager to pair you off with a local lass. Once they're satisfied that you're ok, they'll be pulling girls over to you, from their table, or maybe even others!
Before we know it we're chatting with ladies at the tables around us. Glasses are thrust at us. They'd initiate conversation in English, but be thrilled to discover we can speak their lingo. With that said, it can be a struggle when your ears are ringing with deafening Thai rock music pounding from every direction and a Thai lass's excitement overcoming her as she drifts into slang and speaks a million miles an hour.
Excited conversation is followed by you being pulled to your feet, an invitation to show off your best dancing moves. Drinking, singing, dancing. To the locals it's all sanuk. Dance with her and she'll be interested.
As they night goes on, they fight to manoeuvre into your space, to dance with you. Girls from one table jump in between you and the girl you're dancing with. It's the Thai way, how they famously yang-gun over a guy - try and pull one guy from another girl. If you didn't come with her, you're fair game. Even if you did, she might try and slip you her number. Phone numbers come from all directions and you need to be organised to remember who's who.
One girl was showing a lot of interest, dancing all around me and getting a bit touchy feely. Hands around the waist, pulling me closer, giving all the right signals.
The night accelerates towards the 2 AM closure, and with 4 long islands down me before we even got there, it only took a few beers to play havoc with the system. Some time around 1:30 AM we decide to make a beeline for the exit. The bird who was showing major interest had slipped off to the loo so I didn't have a chance to say goodbye.
As we staggered out of the venue, our ears ringing, our heads shaking and our stomachs ready to empty themselves of the ridiculous overdose of putrid sugars we'd consumed, we manage to get ourselves into a cab. In the midst of explaining to the driver where we wanted to go â€“ no easy task when we were both rotten drunk - dropping me off at Stick HQ before depositing Lee back at his place, all hell breaks loose!
With the cab reversing, the door on my side, behind the driver, is flung open. Was it the boys in brown? Were we about to be interrogated in the car park? Is it some sort of offence for foreigners to party with good girls?
But it wasn't the cops. It was a girl I'd been dancing with. She had managed to open the door of a moving vehicle and successfully leap on to my lap, gogo girl style!
â€œWhere you go?â€�
â€œWhy you go?â€�
â€œYou not want go with me?â€�
The questions came thick and fast, question after question before I could even answer the first.
â€œI'm tired and need to sleepâ€�, I protest, the thought of a long sleep in my comfortable bed more appealing than a ride with this creature from heaven.
It's a crazy life in Thailand. There I was, with a pretty, 20-something Thai woman throwing herself at me. She was all mine. There was no pretention. There'd be no palm held out in the morning. She'd be there because she wanted to be there. But it was late. I made out that I had a busy day the next day. To her shock and amazement, I turned her down. That didn't resonate with the stories Thais have about farangs all being sex crazy. A lovely Thai woman was throwing herself at me and I turned her down. Maybe I'll regret it when I am on my death bed and have but minutes left on this earth?
As she pleaded with me in the back of the taxi, which was now blocking the car park, to go with her, I remember Lee muttering something to the effect that I had better tip the driver well. With much effort I eventually managed to open the door and gently ease her out.
On the way home we reflected on how guys in the West would kill for such a night out, and how many simply wouldn't believe some of what we get up to.
This was but one such night out. There have been many, and no doubt there will be many more.
I still had a buzz going the next morning, and it wasn't because I'd had too much to drink. It's seldom you have such a great night out, but as I woke up the next morning and prepared myself for the day ahead, I was already thinking ahead to the following week, when we would do it all over again!
Such venues exist all over Bangkok, and in every large, medium and even some small towns around Thailand you'll find similar.
You don't have to be able to speak Thai to enjoy these places although it probably helps. Westerners are welcome and whether you speak Thai or not, the service staff will do their best to help you, using what little English they have, or perhaps dragging over a member of staff who is known to speak farang.
Many feel they've arrived in heaven when they first discover the bar industry in Thailand. Most realise, sooner or later, that it's all about the money.
Those relocating to the Kingdom think they've found paradise when they sign up for one of the better online dating sites with huge numbers of women keen to meet them. But again, in time, they realise that it is not the Holy Grail. Many women on farang-centric dating sites are farang-crazy. They want you because you are farang. Translation: Almost any farang will do.
It's when you back yourself to meet Thai women a more conventional way, real Thai women in real settings, the places you might typical meet someone in your own country, that I reckon you're starting to get closer to the Holy Grail.
Admittedly these aren't places for those who are most concerned about the end game. These are fun venues where there's a great night out to be had and with the right attitude and a bit of luck, anything is possible. Sometimes I think you need the looks of Brad Pitt and the money of Bill Gates to have fun like this in the West.
It takes guts to pick up your life and move it from your homeland to the other side of the world, from one continent to another, to a place where you don't know the language, where there are no guarantees and nothing in the way of job security. So why do guys go to all the effort to up sticks and move to Thailand, yet when they get here confine themselves to 1 or 2 square kilometres of the country? Why is it that so many only know Sukhumvit - and only a short strip of it at that? These venues that Lee and I go to are open to foreigners and yes, you really are very welcome! And no, you don't need a visa to visit!
There's so much fun to be had in the Thai venues and for us it's hard to justify visiting the likes of Nana or Cowboy. The Thai style venues are just so much fun.
If you want to go there, jump in any cab and tell the driver to take you to......
These venues are everywhere! Head out into the suburbs and when you see a barn with a neon sign in Thai, a full car park and local music wafting across the steamy South-East Asian night, you're exactly where you want to be. Keep an open-mind and you might just have a great time.
Rock... I read the same Stickman article last week and I was intrigued! Frankly I was a bit shocked that Stick got all that attention from the Thai women at this venue! It's a real head scratcher because it is counter to everything that we've previously described when discussing farangs and real Thais.
Back on topic, I've gotten the Rock Star treatment pretty much any time I went into the provinces in Phils. But then again, I'm 6'4 and 220lbs and I look Scandinavian. Also received RS status quite a bit in Brazil. Countries in which I didn't get RS status: Thailand and Vietnam.
When I was in Bangkok, I stayed in a gated community which was designed for the Thai middle class and not foreigners. Although, I did see a few older men there with younger Thai wives, and everyone was treated normally. If you go to Thailand, I would recommend staying well away from the pay for play areas and live with the Thai middle class. Maybe thatâ€™s why I have a better impression of the country. The whole point of moving to a foreign country is to have a high quality relationship where women really want you. I have seen pictures of the pay for play girls and they all look ugly. I donâ€™t know why guys travel thousands of miles for this. Itâ€™s not worth it to move to a foreign county to just pay prostitutes. Just stay home, make money, and go on your vacation. In the civilian world, I saw women who were quite attractive looking both outside and inside. The prettiest girl in my class asked to have her picture taken with me the last day.
I don't think its counter to everything. Even on this forum, I've posted somewhat alternative points of view and some others have posted along similar lines. I also know of other white guys who do fine there - some in Bangkok and others off-the-beaten track. Some speak fluent Thai and/or a dialect as well.
I honestly believe your looks, age, and dress have a much bigger influence on how the young local ladies (and young Thais in general) perceive you than whether you happen to be Asian, white, or black. A good looking trendy white guy is going to be a lot more popular than some dumpy middle aged Japanese or Korean dude, at least with normal urban middle class girls who aren't out for the gold.
As for monger land, a lot of the Japanese and Korean punters you see happen to be pretty young these days. Hmmm, they're younger and spend more. No wonder the girls like them so much.
In PI, I've really got to get down to Cebu and other parts of Central Visayas to see if I get 'the treatment' a few of you guys rave about. I feel pretty invisible every time I visit Luzon. And in Brazil, its not like every girl looked at me, not even close. But I pulled some who were way out of my league. And I'm no 6'4" big guy like you. Also, I've heard being Scandy looking gets you a lot more mileage way up in the dark north near the Amazon rain forests. I spent most my time in beautiful Rio area.
Well I think Lad will tell you that he got the worst treatment in the all Thai areas. I really don't get why all that shit went down with him and some of his buddies. Perhaps during that particular period, everyone was pissed-off at us westerners for AIDS? It was a long time ago so really hard to say for sure.
But just a few years ago, I spent a fair amount of time dealing with real Thais (most of whom didn't speak English) and frequently traveling out to far suburbs for a condo project. I felt fine - no ugly body language, sour faces, or people barking-out Farang at me. Some of the girls in the shops smiled at me and would ask my friend about me. A few even asked her to introduce them to foreigners. Strangely enough, one girl we met was even dating a guy from Madagascar of all places.
I do know that if you talk to people there in a gruff or aggressive manner, you may turn a lot of them off to you without even realizing it.
"Lad, what have you been smoking lately? So you really feel like a rock-star in PI when youâ€™re really just seen as a walking ATM??? Rock stars donâ€™t pay their fans! Donâ€™t you get it? Almost any young local woman who has her own real money wants nothing to do with you as a foreigner. Your Tagalog and dialect fluency do not give you a â€˜local passâ€™. "
It's True! Whenever I am returning home to the Philippines, adoring throngs of screaming girls mob the airport and throw their panties at me! LOL
But actually, Filipinos do tend to cut Americans a lot of slack, more than many of them deserve, considering what pond scum many American visitors are.
Middle class Filipinas tend to have more options to be sure. I frequently deal with them and I am now married to one. I asked my wife about this,
and as I thought, she said such Filipinas do not want to be some American's "vacation girlfriend", and unless they know otherwise, will assume
that is the risk. If you are seen as established, well grounded, and family oriented, that separates you from most of the western men in their mind.
If you are looking for fun, middle class Filipinas and many of the others as well are not interested in putting out for you. I know some poor girls as well, who have absolutely high standards.
Many American men say they dislike slutty American girls, and yet they are dismayed when foreign girls do not act like...slutty American girls.
My advice to local girls is to be very careful about visiting western men. No matter what they promise, most are looking for a hit and run deal.
Just to address the OP, you will tend to get attention in very poor countries. Because in those places, people see you the way Americans would see someone worth 10s of millions of dollars. People want to know you, do business with you, serve you, and in some cases, even date you, mainly because they think you are rich. You will get lots of this sort of attention in much of Sub-Saharan Africa, poorer areas of Caribbean and LatAm, and a bit of poor Asia. But your 'fans' will generally be short-term oriented so will try to realize some benefit in having a relationship right away.
If you are white, you still might get a bit of non-money based special attention and treatment in less developed areas of China. But generally, if you want to be treated like a rock-star anywhere, you gotta do more than just show-up and sport your white mug. Start out in a non-white country. Then develop some cool or interesting persona. Pick-up some of the local language and then learn to banter and joke. Or instead of learning the main language, learn a popular dialect. In Taiwan, you can get loads of attention if you learn to joke well in Taiwanese as a foreigner. Get a part in one of the local TV variety shows or soap operas. Join a band and perform in local venues. Learn magic and perform it. Find innovative techniques for teaching locals English and then use it on unsuspecting strangers. If you half-way resemble a well known western celebrity, learn to dress, talk, and act like him sometimes and have some fun with locals who catch the connection. Join a sports team or other activity which enables you to bond with locals.
Now if you happen to be super handsome, then no worries. Just show-up. Otherwise, you better be damn charismatic, funny, or interesting OR put in the work as per above.
Food for thought: China, Taiwan, Peru, northern Brazil, Central Asia, Vietnam
Hmm, I wish American girls were more slutty with guys like me when I lived in the States. For a lot of us, they put-out about as much as a nun. As far as developed western countries go, I would imagine a very liberal area such as Scandinavia would be much better for getting needs met as a single guy.
Here in Asia, I'm pretty sure Thailand is going to beat PI hands-down in that department. Ditto for much of NE Asia. Now if you just want to find a serious long-term wife, I suspect Filipinas may be a safer bet than Thais, even though Thailand has a much higher percentage of lookers.
But for the polyamorous lifestyle discussed by some on this forum, PI is really just a case of finding poor girls, supporting them, and if you're lucky, getting some intimacy in return. Really just another flavor of P4P, usually a more expensive one.
This is blaming the victim. How come no bad reaction in Malaysia or the Philippines to me being me? But I was in Thailand when two things were happening- the sudden AIDS epidemics- blamed on the farang ( not the shared needles and brothels) and new, unprecedented prosperity- the people were becoming very stuck up. My "buddies" were mostly English teachers so they lived in lower income housing and non rich areas. All were complaining of racial discrimination and endless taunting. Mind you not all Thais were doing it and some were really nice- many, actually, but again, if you move into a hard black neighborhood in NY, not all blacks will hate you for being white but you will have daily unfriendliness to deal with from others. At one university where I worked half the staff would simply pretend western teachers did not exist. Like you were not there. It was far far worse than Japan. And how many times girls would tell me, and the local guys, that a Thai girl walking with me is something that the local society does not approve. Also, outside of tourist areas, you would be kicked out of bars or people would give you dirty unwelcoming looks.
How come other guys are not having the same experience? Well, maybe, they choose to ignore the unfriendly bigoted Thais and go for the ones who are friendly. The saying among expats is that 50% of Thais look up to you and 50% look down on you. In the Philippines, it is like 90/10%. So, maybe these guys just concentrate on those friendly Thais that want to have the close encounters with the smelly white race and who imitate Hollywood and like America? And just have thick skin and laugh off the taunting?
Now, all this is not an opinion- it is my experience. and an observation
As far as the Philippines goes, try and learn Tagalog and/or Visaya and see what I mean. Amazing difference! When I arrived here after Thailand, boy did I heave a sigh of relief. And try dating local girls when you speak Tagalog. A miracle! Just try doing it, you will be surprised. So many doors will open for you.
Now, middle class girls here will date provided you are in their circle- like you work at the same company or are introduced by a mutual acquantance. This is how it is done. They do not date other Filipino strangers or classes lower than theirs and are suspicious of those they do not know. Even other Filipinos, And all of them want a guy with money and a good position. Again, not an opinion, an experience.and an observation.
Why the guy had fun at Thai venues? Well, maybe not all were bigoted? Maybe times have changed? At some I was welcome by quite a few people, at some they were still barking and giving me disdainful looks. At some three they told me- no farang no foreigners and I even heard them tell the waitresses outside not to let me in. But it does not happen at all places. Just like in the American south- not all black or white bars are racist- some welcome all people.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Also, a lot of people don't spend that much time, actually living in another country. For me, it was quite clear that there were several layers to how westerners interacted with Thai society. The bar/tourist scene vs the high echelon ex-pats, vs the lone wolf farangs. In all categories, there were differences in which Thais would treat farangs. I knew a lone wolf type, with a near photogenic memory, who knew Thai, Chinese, and a host of other Asian languages like the back of his hand. Many of those bigoted Thais avoided him like the plague while others, embraced him as a second cousin. He busted peoples' games and was never conned like other farangs, he knew over the years. Then, the high echelons (Jim Thompson wannabes) live in a separated reality where only certain Thais would have anything to do with them, while others treated 'em as invisible. And then, there are those who live simpler, out in the countryside like near Ubon province and are almost like family to people living there. And yes, Malaysia is much more open, socially that is, than Thailand but I think that's perhaps a function of the fact that most Malays (including the Chinese & Indian diasporas there) are English native speakers. Personally, I'd found Singaporeans to also be quite approachable.
I guess I was one.
and I guess some people do not mind it.
Because the people there are Lao ethnically. Same with Surin and Buriram- they are Khmers and are very good people.
A lot of the Oriental standoffishness is due to the fact that they simply cannot conceive of another race speaking their language and thus avoid them. Unlike white people who would simply speak to others in the language of the country. With the advent of English becoming an international tongue, the face concsious Asians run away from white people because they cannot speak English well and a white person who speaks an Oriental language is a shock to them.
Say. if someone stops a Westerner on the street of say, Germany and asks for directions, the German will simply use body gestures, or just talk slowly. But these just run away like they have seen cholera.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
"As far as the Philippines goes, try and learn Tagalog and/or Visaya and see what I mean. Amazing difference! When I arrived here after Thailand, boy did I heave a sigh of relief. And try dating local girls when you speak Tagalog. A miracle! Just try doing it, you will be surprised. So many doors will open for you.
Now, middle class girls here will date provided you are in their circle- like you work at the same company or are introduced by a mutual acquantance. This is how it is done. They do not date other Filipino strangers or classes lower than theirs and are suspicious of those they do not know. Even other Filipinos, And all of them want a guy with money and a good position. Again, not an opinion, an experience.and an observation."
Ladislav is dead on. The Philippines is a clan/family based culture. If you are passing through on a p***y raid, there is a whole segment of
society that is closed to you. Now I have never lived around Manila, but in the southern Philippines this is all very much the case.
if you have a good local address and you have an introduction, you will meet girls that you otherwise would not. If you are just looking for
some poontang, this is far more trouble than most men would ever do,, there are plenty of other options for that.
How to get laid of course, is a different discussion than how to integrate into local society. For some guys, what I call "semi-virgins"
might be a good option.