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Countries where you're treated like a rock star

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby E_Irizarry » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:42 pm

OutWest wrote:"
"As far as the Philippines goes, try and learn Tagalog and/or Visaya and see what I mean. Amazing difference! When I arrived here after Thailand, boy did I heave a sigh of relief. And try dating local girls when you speak Tagalog. A miracle! Just try doing it, you will be surprised. So many doors will open for you.
Now, middle class girls here will date provided you are in their circle- like you work at the same company or are introduced by a mutual acquantance. This is how it is done. They do not date other Filipino strangers or classes lower than theirs and are suspicious of those they do not know. Even other Filipinos, And all of them want a guy with money and a good position. Again, not an opinion, an experience.and an observation."

Ladislav is dead on. The Philippines is a clan/family based culture. If you are passing through on a p***y raid, there is a whole segment of
society that is closed to you. Now I have never lived around Manila, but in the southern Philippines this is all very much the case.
if you have a good local address and you have an introduction, you will meet girls that you otherwise would not. If you are just looking for
some poontang, this is far more trouble than most men would ever do,, there are plenty of other options for that.

How to get laid of course, is a different discussion than how to integrate into local society. For some guys, what I call "semi-virgins"
might be a good option.


Outwest


Hey I'm one of the few men whom had gone through the trouble of scoring on poontang in the Philippines. WIthout specific paradise-name-dropping, the most specific regions that I'm going to say are the Visayas and Mindanao; they are so slept on. I went through the trouble to find those places inside of the Visayas & Mindanao; you should too if you want to do RP bad enough. I was rock star in my own reicht in that in one whorehouse in the Visayas, I was f***ing the hottest strippers bareback/raw back-to-back and they were telling each other that we weren't using any protection that when it came time for the 4th puta that was supposed to lay with me in the VIP room, she became scared. That's alrighty though; I f***ed three bad Visayan mami's in 4 hours in the VIP room!
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

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Postby Grunt » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:50 am

So Ladislav is trolled and spammed by the I-joined-after-2010 newbs. Classic.

The f***ing inmates are running the asylum.
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Postby odbo » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:22 am

You're one disgruntled asshole aren't you!
If it makes any difference I noticed happier abroad somewhere between 2007 and 2009, but didn't join because there were only noobs like you.
Then i joined and spammed like crazy with my own brand of bullshit! :twisted: muwahahha
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Postby Rock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:35 am

Grunt wrote:So Ladislav is trolled and spammed by the I-joined-after-2010 newbs. Classic.

The f***ing inmates are running the asylum.


None of the posters who have responded to Ladislav in this thread so far are trolls. And it’s interesting that you arbitrarily use a HA sign-up date after 2010 as proxy for newbie status. When determining how ‘senior’ a member is here, don’t you think post number, length, and depth might just be a bit more relevant? Or more importantly, how about the poster’s personal length of time spent abroad, number of countries lived in, dating and work experience overseas, etc? Could it be that based on some of these metrics, you are the least seasoned of us all?

Anyway, I realize that a lot of Lad’s posts are very inspirational to HA wannabes (except when it comes to Thailand or NE Asia, lol), especially towards potential PI expats. That’s fantastic. Guys like me who play devils advocate provide a balance to this, a reality check if you will. The forum’s philosophy is based on objective truth seeking, not blind propaganda. Every person’s experience is subjective to a degree. Debate helps to keep extreme views in check and brings the focus back to facts and real life experiences of different people, not just one.
Relocating to PI will not work-out for all Americans, just some. Just consider Winston’s case for a start. Also, Mr. S, who has been there for a few years now, seemed a lot happier in Thailand (correct me if I am wrong Mr. S). Of the few western guys I know with significant experience living in both places, most prefer Thailand overall.
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Postby Rock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:46 am

E_Irizarry wrote:
OutWest wrote:"
"As far as the Philippines goes, try and learn Tagalog and/or Visaya and see what I mean. Amazing difference! When I arrived here after Thailand, boy did I heave a sigh of relief. And try dating local girls when you speak Tagalog. A miracle! Just try doing it, you will be surprised. So many doors will open for you.
Now, middle class girls here will date provided you are in their circle- like you work at the same company or are introduced by a mutual acquantance. This is how it is done. They do not date other Filipino strangers or classes lower than theirs and are suspicious of those they do not know. Even other Filipinos, And all of them want a guy with money and a good position. Again, not an opinion, an experience.and an observation."

Ladislav is dead on. The Philippines is a clan/family based culture. If you are passing through on a p***y raid, there is a whole segment of
society that is closed to you. Now I have never lived around Manila, but in the southern Philippines this is all very much the case.
if you have a good local address and you have an introduction, you will meet girls that you otherwise would not. If you are just looking for
some poontang, this is far more trouble than most men would ever do,, there are plenty of other options for that.

How to get laid of course, is a different discussion than how to integrate into local society. For some guys, what I call "semi-virgins"
might be a good option.


Outwest


Hey I'm one of the few men whom had gone through the trouble of scoring on poontang in the Philippines. WIthout specific paradise-name-dropping, the most specific regions that I'm going to say are the Visayas and Mindanao; they are so slept on. I went through the trouble to find those places inside of the Visayas & Mindanao; you should too if you want to do RP bad enough. I was rock star in my own reicht in that in one whorehouse in the Visayas, I was f***ing the hottest strippers bareback/raw back-to-back and they were telling each other that we weren't using any protection that when it came time for the 4th puta that was supposed to lay with me in the VIP room, she became scared. That's alrighty though; I f***ed three bad Visayan mami's in 4 hours in the VIP room!


I gotta hand it to you. You really seem to get around and off the beaten track. How do you finance it all? Please share more detailed inside info on how to realize fantasies in SE Asia and LatAm. I'm getting so sick of the predictability and reptilian vibe you tend to get in these large capital cities. The real 'dream of life abroad' seems to hardly exist in any of the world's mega-cities anymore.
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Postby Rock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:59 am

ladislav wrote:
Well I think Lad will tell you that he got the worst treatment in the all Thai areas. I really don't get why all that shit went down with him and some of his buddies. Perhaps during that particular period, everyone was pissed-off at us westerners for AIDS? It was a long time ago so really hard to say for sure.

.... you may turn a lot of them off to you without even realizing it.


This is blaming the victim. How come no bad reaction in Malaysia or the Philippines to me being me? But I was in Thailand when two things were happening- the sudden AIDS epidemics- blamed on the farang ( not the shared needles and brothels) and new, unprecedented prosperity- the people were becoming very stuck up. My "buddies" were mostly English teachers so they lived in lower income housing and non rich areas. All were complaining of racial discrimination and endless taunting. Mind you not all Thais were doing it and some were really nice- many, actually, but again, if you move into a hard black neighborhood in NY, not all blacks will hate you for being white but you will have daily unfriendliness to deal with from others. At one university where I worked half the staff would simply pretend western teachers did not exist. Like you were not there. It was far far worse than Japan. And how many times girls would tell me, and the local guys, that a Thai girl walking with me is something that the local society does not approve. Also, outside of tourist areas, you would be kicked out of bars or people would give you dirty unwelcoming looks.
How come other guys are not having the same experience? Well, maybe, they choose to ignore the unfriendly bigoted Thais and go for the ones who are friendly. The saying among expats is that 50% of Thais look up to you and 50% look down on you. In the Philippines, it is like 90/10%. So, maybe these guys just concentrate on those friendly Thais that want to have the close encounters with the smelly white race and who imitate Hollywood and like America? And just have thick skin and laugh off the taunting?
Now, all this is not an opinion- it is my experience. and an observation
As far as the Philippines goes, try and learn Tagalog and/or Visaya and see what I mean. Amazing difference! When I arrived here after Thailand, boy did I heave a sigh of relief. And try dating local girls when you speak Tagalog. A miracle! Just try doing it, you will be surprised. So many doors will open for you.
Now, middle class girls here will date provided you are in their circle- like you work at the same company or are introduced by a mutual acquantance. This is how it is done. They do not date other Filipino strangers or classes lower than theirs and are suspicious of those they do not know. Even other Filipinos, And all of them want a guy with money and a good position. Again, not an opinion, an experience.and an observation.

Why the guy had fun at Thai venues? Well, maybe not all were bigoted? Maybe times have changed? At some I was welcome by quite a few people, at some they were still barking and giving me disdainful looks. At some three they told me- no farang no foreigners and I even heard them tell the waitresses outside not to let me in. But it does not happen at all places. Just like in the American south- not all black or white bars are racist- some welcome all people.



My last sentence (…you may turn a lot of them off…) was not in reference to you. It was a heads-up to Americans, Brits, and other westerners, some of whom seem to act pushy and overly direct in Asia. I see these types in Taiwan where they are better tolerated. So its not ‘victim blaming’. Please don’t be so sensitive and assume you are being blamed, attacked, or insulted when you are not.

As for dangerous black neighborhoods in the US, best thing as a white guy is just to stay away from them. But you don't need to avoid the States in order to do that. Same goes for farangs and lower income areas of Thailand. Enjoy the country, avoid the worst neighborhoods, simple as that.

I believe English teachers, backpackers, and other low to no income types of westerners are looked down on by a segment of people in parts of Asia (mainly richer and more developed areas) unless they are in the student (18-22) age bracket. They are considered white trash who suck from the local economy and cause trouble. When I lived in HK, this view of the poor white class was shared by a lot of the British career expats too. But even in those environments, you can still find friendly locals or girls who will date you. You just need to tolerate being looked down on certain members of society including some from your own race. I don’t know if Thailand was like that back in the early 90s though given that it was still a poorer country. Perhaps Thai economy was growing so quickly then (like China in first decade of 2000) that people were looking towards the future. AIDS didn’t help the image of the white backpacker class either. But PI was and still is so damn poor that English teachers are probably considered upper middle class earners. I really can’t comment on Malaysia from that era. Do you understand Bahasa Malaysian or any common Chinese dialects spoken there?

What you say about Thai and PI are your opinions based on the experiences and observations of you and your circle. On-the-ground perceptions of westerners vary tremendously depending on the person or group. Quality, duration, and timing of that experience are key considerations. In your favor, you understand the local languages in both places. But your experience in Thailand is very dated and you only spent 2-3 years there. Back then, half the country of Rwanda was butchering the other half. Today I can enjoy a safe visit there. People and places change with the times, sometime at a startling rate.

Stickman is just one alternate example of the western male reality in Thailand. And his experience and observation base is quite deep, current, and credible. He’s been in country well over 10 years up to the present, speaks Thai (and perhaps some Lao or Khmer), has dated many regular local girls (some long term), travelled throughout the country, and even taught English for a spell. He has thousands of followers who are interested in the country and regularly exchange information with him. I’ve followed him for a long time and am convinced he does not sugar-coat or ignore the negatives. So you really shouldn’t write-off his reality there, good and bad. There are many other Thai speaking western men who thrive in the Thai social environment. And I seriously doubt that 50% of locals hate them or mock them under their breath. The real number is probably much lower than that. And please tell me, where are these local Thai style venues that refuse entry to westerners? Name a couple so I can try them out next time I visit.
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Postby ladislav » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:01 pm

I was not a backpacker teaching for a pittance. I taught graduate school there and at a medical university. Is this being 'white trash'? I do not know if you realize it or not, again you are trying to shift the blame from the Thais( oh they are people of color, so they are all good) to white people ( oh they often behave badly so they evoke this reaction).

Second, why does it surprise you so much that another race that is non white can be prejudiced against white guys? for some reason, it seems to me that that is what you are trying to prove repeatedly. The Thais, like so many Japanese and like so many Americans often do not like visible foreigners in their country. Why is that such an impossibility to you?

Another guy that I knew , who was a PhD holder - is that white trash, too? -complained that he would not be served at restaurants. I kept hearing those things over and over again.

The "No Farangs allowed" was quite big during the AIDS years- starting around late 80ies. So many people have told me about that and I experienced it on myself as well. Some guys would even tell me how people would not want to sit next to them on buses, get into the same elevator with them or be crossing to the other side of the street. Substitute Thailand for US, and white for black and you have typical manifestations of racism. All very characteristic. Except that I think if it was a black person telling you about how he was treated in the South, you , I am sure you would be nodding compassionately and saying " those bastards! those bigots!" But if it is a white guy who is on the receiving end in Thailand, well, then all this become the white people's fault. And the other race is above reproach.

Anyway, how do people know that you are a backpacker if you go to a restaurant with Thai coworkers after work and excuse to go to the bathroom and dishwashers start mocking you while glowering and barking farang farang? I am dressed in a shirt and a tie. Then, janitors start mocking you when you go to teach at the graduate school and walk into the building. These are top places in the country, I guess. So, what is going on?

So, you mean this mockery has stopped now just like the war in Rwanda has stopped?

Again, whoever this Stickman is, I am really happy for him and let him toot his horn. He needs his site to grow, too and that will not be by saying anything negative.

The venues that refuse Westerners- hmm, try and go to bars/clubs and massage parlours down Petchbury Road past the area where tourists hang out, and also in the Klongtoey area.

The word for farang in Bahasa is matsale but you dont have people barking it at you. I have not heard even one say it to me or about me.

Anyway, my point is- go and live in Thailand if you are an Asian American. Don't live there as a white guy. And, yes, many people mock them under their breath. They just don't see it especially Americans who are very much self absorbed . Not aware of the body language and facial expressions. While I am very perceptive of those.

And this is my classic one:

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/reader/reader37.html
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
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Postby E_Irizarry » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:07 pm

Rock wrote:
E_Irizarry wrote:
OutWest wrote:"
"As far as the Philippines goes, try and learn Tagalog and/or Visaya and see what I mean. Amazing difference! When I arrived here after Thailand, boy did I heave a sigh of relief. And try dating local girls when you speak Tagalog. A miracle! Just try doing it, you will be surprised. So many doors will open for you.
Now, middle class girls here will date provided you are in their circle- like you work at the same company or are introduced by a mutual acquantance. This is how it is done. They do not date other Filipino strangers or classes lower than theirs and are suspicious of those they do not know. Even other Filipinos, And all of them want a guy with money and a good position. Again, not an opinion, an experience.and an observation."

Ladislav is dead on. The Philippines is a clan/family based culture. If you are passing through on a p***y raid, there is a whole segment of
society that is closed to you. Now I have never lived around Manila, but in the southern Philippines this is all very much the case.
if you have a good local address and you have an introduction, you will meet girls that you otherwise would not. If you are just looking for
some poontang, this is far more trouble than most men would ever do,, there are plenty of other options for that.

How to get laid of course, is a different discussion than how to integrate into local society. For some guys, what I call "semi-virgins"
might be a good option.


Outwest


Hey I'm one of the few men whom had gone through the trouble of scoring on poontang in the Philippines. WIthout specific paradise-name-dropping, the most specific regions that I'm going to say are the Visayas and Mindanao; they are so slept on. I went through the trouble to find those places inside of the Visayas & Mindanao; you should too if you want to do RP bad enough. I was rock star in my own reicht in that in one whorehouse in the Visayas, I was f***ing the hottest strippers bareback/raw back-to-back and they were telling each other that we weren't using any protection that when it came time for the 4th puta that was supposed to lay with me in the VIP room, she became scared. That's alrighty though; I f***ed three bad Visayan mami's in 4 hours in the VIP room!


I gotta hand it to you. You really seem to get around and off the beaten track. How do you finance it all? Please share more detailed inside info on how to realize fantasies in SE Asia and LatAm. I'm getting so sick of the predictability and reptilian vibe you tend to get in these large capital cities. The real 'dream of life abroad' seems to hardly exist in any of the world's mega-cities anymore.


I had spent a few years saving up money so I had it planned for a long time. When I was 15 years old, I saw @ a precocious age how caustic relationships were between my parents and my uncles and I hardly saw my cousins because of it. Also, I always heard of such-and-such divorced such-and-such; as a result, it had shocked me because they were the last people seemingly whom would split up/divorce. And then I heard about this child support thingy, and I am very frugal with my money - even back then, I made sure I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I would be forced to pay on something that had no ROI on it.

Henceforth, I still have no kids. :O)

Rock, you got it, dude: stay the f**k away from the capital cities. They are sometimes good for POE to a mongering country (i.e. point/port of entry). I hate going to the US Embassy in capital cities abroad because they have that American attitude - even the foreign people whom are staff members that work there whom have a decent handle on the English language.

That had happened to me when I had gone to the US Embassy in Bogota, Colombia. There was an Afro-Colombiana as a counter cashier/clerk, and she was nasty to me, as if she were a Black American woman based on her tonality of her voice, and even the Americans whom worked there had curt and crass attitudes towards me.

As soon as I had gone back outside, there was a local, Colombian security company, which has a contract to do security for the US Embassy there, the officers were cool-as-shit. I would have gotten the number from this bottom-heavy pear-shaped mocha-brown Colombiana security officer there if I didn't have to leave Colombia that night. But believe, they did their job better than most TSA staff, that Colombian security that is.

Capitals are also used to having tourist traps and too many western skanks walking around with the "I know my currency goes further than your currency" condescending attitude. Since MANILA (RP' capital) is so big and so corrupt in its own right, they really don't care about westerners that much. ON THE CONTRARY, SubIC bAY and Angeles City is more up a westerner's lane.

Quito, Ecuador too....I didn't like it...too much like a wanna-be Dallas or some shit. But in some smaller cities in Ecuador, there gold in dem hills.

Hell, last example: Colombia, too. Bogota (reminds me of Queens NY a bit) is more laid back than Manila or Quito, but most mongerers and regular expat's know that Bogota is not the hotspot in Colombia.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

TanBoy by DNA | Despedido, Hugo Chavez...Descansa en paz!
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Postby Rock » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:17 pm

ladislav wrote:I was not a backpacker teaching for a pittance. I taught graduate school there and at a medical university. Is this being 'white trash'? I do not know if you realize it or not, again you are trying to shift the blame from the Thais( oh they are people of color, so they are all good) to white people ( oh they often behave badly so they evoke this reaction).

Second, why does it surprise you so much that another race that is non white can be prejudiced against white guys? for some reason, it seems to me that that is what you are trying to prove repeatedly. The Thais, like so many Japanese and like so many Americans often do not like visible foreigners in their country. Why is that such an impossibility to you?


Blaming whom for what? You’ve expressed your experiences and observations. I’ve countered with my own, and those of others. So how is it that I’m ‘trying to shift blame’? You seem to be injecting an aggressor/victim mentality into the discussion which misses the point of my arguments – that Thailand can be a great place for some westerners. You’re being overly sensitive by imagining that I am ‘blaming’ you for something. I'm not so please get over it and stop projecting your suspicions where they are unwarranted.

In my world view, virtually everyone is prejudiced to a degree, usually against those who are different from themselves, racially, economically, class-wise, etc. A lot of Asians view other races (such as whites or blacks) in contempt to various degrees. Same can be said for whites, blacks, or Jews towards other races. There are big divides between rich, middle class, and poor in many countries. Religion is a big issue in some places. Human prejudice is a fact of life all around the planet, even in the PI as has been confirmed by certain members here.

But why do you imagine that it’s so black and white – good guys vs. bad guys, Asians vs. whites, Thais vs. farang – as if a race is either the aggressor or victim in a given environment. It’s all about shades of gray. And believe it or not, different westerners may evoke varied reactions from the same people in a given country (no blame, just asserting my right to state my own observations). It’s certainly the case in here Taiwan and I’m sure it is in Thailand and the PI too.

ladislav wrote:Another guy that I knew , who was a PhD holder - is that white trash, too? -complained that he would not be served at restaurants. I kept hearing those things over and over again.


Your talking about experiences and from early 90s Thailand, right? Today is what’s relevant. You would be hard put to find a restaurant anywhere in 2011 Thailand which would refuse to serve someone just for being a white foreigner. If you disagree, name me the restaurant. If it’s in metro Bangkok, I will visit and report what happens.

ladislav wrote: The "No Farangs allowed" was quite big during the AIDS years- starting around late 80ies. So many people have told me about that and I experienced it on myself as well. Some guys would even tell me how people would not want to sit next to them on buses, get into the same elevator with them or be crossing to the other side of the street. Substitute Thailand for US, and white for black and you have typical manifestations of racism. All very characteristic. Except that I think if it was a black person telling you about how he was treated in the South, you , I am sure you would be nodding compassionately and saying " those bastards! those bigots!" But if it is a white guy who is on the receiving end in Thailand, well, then all this become the white people's fault. And the other race is above reproach.


Well I reckon the black experience in the deep US south during the 60s was different than today. For example, restaurants, busses, and swimming pools are no longer segregated into sections or made off-limits to blacks. On balance, I would venture to say that the social climate between whites and blacks has improved since then. Isn’t it possible that social climate in Thailand between whites and Thais has improved since the early 90s? It’s not that racism between these groups has disappeared. I’m just saying that perhaps its manifestations have become more tolerable in this new age.

Anyway, if a black American male talks to me about his experiences in America, I doubt I would nod compassionately cus I’m focused on now, not the 60s. I envied a lot of the black guys when growing-up. They were getting women but I wasn’t. A subset of white girls (some quite hot in my book) were totally into them. When you’re a typical straight boy or young man, this is usually what you care most about.

Again, 2011 Thai and beyond is what counts most in this discussion, not your bitter memories of the deep past. Do you really think that a regular Farang, has the power and presence to scare the Thais out of an elevator or force them to the other side of the street? You’re giving us too much credit here, lol. Heck, someone should send a film crew over and make a mocumentary about this dynamic, kind of like what British television did with the jet-ski mafia. I’m sure it would get a lot of attention.

I’ve been to Thailand over 30 times in last decade for periods up to 3 months a visit. I’m not deaf nor blind. And I’m not sleepwalking American newbie oblivious to what goes on around him. I know when people bark ‘farang’, make sourpuss faces, or clear public areas to avoid me. Thailand doesn’t work that way today, not even to the extremes you claim.

ladislav wrote: Anyway, how do people know that you are a backpacker if you go to a restaurant with Thai coworkers after work and excuse to go to the bathroom and dishwashers start mocking you while glowering and barking farang farang? I am dressed in a shirt and a tie. Then, janitors start mocking you when you go to teach at the graduate school and walk into the building. These are top places in the country, I guess. So, what is going on?


I don’t know if it’s because of the era you were there or if Thais select only certain foreigners to dole out such extreme treatment to. You certainly don’t need to be a Thai speaker to understand when people are barking ‘farang’ at you everywhere you go. I can assure you, that does not happen to all westerners in Thailand, at least not today. But next time, I’m in Bangkok, I’ll visit Chula and see how the janitors and dishwashers respond to me.


ladislav wrote: So, you mean this mockery has stopped now just like the war in Rwanda has stopped?


I would say the outward ‘farang barking’ type of mockery which you so love to obsess about has died down.

ladislav wrote: Again, whoever this Stickman is, I am really happy for him and let him toot his horn. He needs his site to grow, too and that will not be by saying anything negative.


It’s hardly fair for you to blindly assume that Stickman is spinning Thailand to grow his site since you don’t read it or even know who he is. Thailand promotes itself. It gets 5-6 times as many annual visitors as PI. Stickman was simply smart enough to piggyback on this. The site is so popular because he provides easy to read, updated and fairly comprehensive Thai info and makes compelling and balanced arguments about most aspects of life there as a western male expat. For the record, he often expounds on all the bad there is in Thailand. And all essays submitted by readers are publicly posted so there is no filtering or editorializing.

ladislav wrote: The venues that refuse Westerners- hmm, try and go to bars/clubs and massage parlours down Petchbury Road past the area where tourists hang out, and also in the Klongtoey area.


I will check-out Pet Rd. bars/clubs and MPs next time I’m in Bangkok and report back. Klongtoey is a big area and I already spend a lot of time there when I'm in Bangkok. Which part of Klongtoey?


ladislav wrote: The word for farang in Bahasa is matsale but you dont have people barking it at you. I have not heard even one say it to me or about me.

Anyway, my point is- go and live in Thailand if you are an Asian American. Don't live there as a white guy. And, yes, many people mock them under their breath. They just don't see it especially Americans who are very much self absorbed . Not aware of the body language and facial expressions. While I am very perceptive of those.


This is where I think you are doing a big disservice to readers here – by touting simplistic one-size-fits all advice. Your suggestion implies that Thailand will work for all Asians but never for whites. Whites belong in PI, Asians in Thailand. Simple as that. Any white who remains satisfied as a long term expat in Thailand must be completely blind to locals constantly mocking him with barks of ‘farang, farang, farang’ wherever he goes. Only someone with extraordinary body language reading skills and well-tuned interpersonal sensitivities like yourself would catch on to this circus you describe. Come-on man, do you really buy that?

ladislav wrote: And this is my classic one:

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/reader/reader37.html


So this is your classic one? First of all, it's a Stickman reader submission (kind-of weakens your earlier argument about Stick being biased). Secondly, while the guy clearly falls into the negative camp on Thailand, his view still seems a lot more balanced than yours. For example, he suggests that it’s a good destination for any of the following:

- Young western travelers

- Westerners with stable income sources from abroad

- Retired westerners

- Foreign company western expats

- Wealthy westerners

Notice the repeated use of the word western(ers). A lot of white guys fall within the scope above! Anyway, the reader's main focus is on business discrimination against foreigners, not social. And he rationalizes this by arguing that its in the best interest of the tiny power elite to pragmatically shut-out foreigner business efforts because they want to maintain their control over the massive Thai underclass. Entrepreneurial foreigners are seen as a threat to their status-quo. Is the PI really any different in this regard?
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Postby Winston » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:11 pm

Rock wrote:
ladislav wrote:In the Philippines, that is the case, especially in the Visayan regions ( Southern). And being an American is a wow to the masses. Raised on Hollywood movies, every American to many here is a demi-god-like being that is born with a million dollars to his name and lives in sunny Hollywood. An American is also a super hero that had saved their country from the Japanese. This is how the populace sees you. Never mind the recession, high debt, unemployment in the US. None of that exists in the mind of an average Filipino.
In Thailand, they respect Oriental foreigners but not white ones- and no it is not sex tourism thing originally, the latter is just another charge to the farang's already bad name. Because Singaporeans and Malaysians and Japanese and Koreans also go to Thailand for sex and there is still respect for them and a big welcome.

White people are seen as invaders and ruiners of Thai culture as well as just a nuisance- they are a different, not a very welcome race with different, annoying customs. And the Thais have been taught that they are a never colonized master race of Asia and to mistrust the smelly farang.

I find the Thai attitude to white people similar to how Europeans ( used to) treat.view Jews.
Indonesia does seem to be good, though, although I do not think having a picture taken with you is a sign of respect/being a rock star. More like being a novelty. I take pictures with big apes in the zoo, it does not mean I think they are rock stars.


Lad, what have you been smoking lately? So you really feel like a rock-star in PI when you’re really just seen as a walking ATM??? Rock stars don’t pay their fans! Don’t you get it? Almost any young local woman who has her own real money wants nothing to do with you as a foreigner. Your Tagalog and dialect fluency do not give you a ‘local pass’.


Have you read his trip report of his first trip to the Philippines? He was definitely treated like a rock star there for sure. Have a look:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Love_Adven ... ppines.htm

How do you explain that?

He also dated a Filipina teacher once. I think she was middle class.

Why is stickman bangkok credible though? Are there third party references attesting to his credibility?
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Postby Rock » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:09 pm

Winston wrote:
Rock wrote:
ladislav wrote:In the Philippines, that is the case, especially in the Visayan regions ( Southern). And being an American is a wow to the masses. Raised on Hollywood movies, every American to many here is a demi-god-like being that is born with a million dollars to his name and lives in sunny Hollywood. An American is also a super hero that had saved their country from the Japanese. This is how the populace sees you. Never mind the recession, high debt, unemployment in the US. None of that exists in the mind of an average Filipino.
In Thailand, they respect Oriental foreigners but not white ones- and no it is not sex tourism thing originally, the latter is just another charge to the farang's already bad name. Because Singaporeans and Malaysians and Japanese and Koreans also go to Thailand for sex and there is still respect for them and a big welcome.

White people are seen as invaders and ruiners of Thai culture as well as just a nuisance- they are a different, not a very welcome race with different, annoying customs. And the Thais have been taught that they are a never colonized master race of Asia and to mistrust the smelly farang.

I find the Thai attitude to white people similar to how Europeans ( used to) treat.view Jews.
Indonesia does seem to be good, though, although I do not think having a picture taken with you is a sign of respect/being a rock star. More like being a novelty. I take pictures with big apes in the zoo, it does not mean I think they are rock stars.


Lad, what have you been smoking lately? So you really feel like a rock-star in PI when you’re really just seen as a walking ATM??? Rock stars don’t pay their fans! Don’t you get it? Almost any young local woman who has her own real money wants nothing to do with you as a foreigner. Your Tagalog and dialect fluency do not give you a ‘local pass’.


Have you read his trip report of his first trip to the Philippines? He was definitely treated like a rock star there for sure. Have a look:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Love_Adven ... ppines.htm

How do you explain that?

He also dated a Filipina teacher once. I think she was middle class.

Why is stickman bangkok credible though? Are there third party references attesting to his credibility?


I don't know Winston. Maybe there's just something about Lad's look or his way that the local girls really dig. I mean, you and I have been out together in Mall of Asia and S&M and neither one of us were ever treated like rock stars. People thoroughly ignored us. If its not Lad's personal charm, perhaps its a Cebu thing. But I gotta wonder then, why does Lad spend all his time living in Luzon if that's the case? Or maybe things have changed since 1998. What do you think it is? But if he's really such a rock star, why does he have to pay them so much to date him? As I said in another thread, real rock stars don't have to pay their fans.

He dated a Filipina teacher who may have been middle class. That's great. Was she tall and attractive? Did she look classy and refined like many of the girls we see in Taiwan?

As for Stick, I find him to be credible. I've followed him for years and love his weekly column. He's not a macho braggart type but much more intellectual and reserved. He's a good writer and tends to be balanced. He's been plugged into the Bangkok scene for well over 10 years, writes a weekly column, and has a huge following, much larger than HA I believe. And I certainly think his site is much better than Harry the Horse from Angels. Paul (the Aussie guy) even met him once. Since his website has so many reader submissions, there are essays comparing Thailand and PI or Patts and Angeles on there. Perhaps you should get in touch with him and make a bridge between HA and StickmanBangkok.
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Postby Winston » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:06 pm

Well, lol, I think you're taking the rock star thing too literally. It's a figurative thing, where you feel like a rock star, even if you are paying for it. It's about the attention you get and the choices you have. If you are coming from America with zero attention, then any attention you get may make you feel like a rock star.

Lad vibes with the PI well it seems. Well yeah, supposedly, Cebu is more pro-American than Angeles City, whose locals have a grudge against foreigners.

Lad probably isn't in Cebu now cause he has too many angry jealous girls after him there, and too many people know him there. lol It's either that, or there's a personal reason that he doesn't want you to know.

As you know, he doesn't like tall girls. He likes short, innocent looking girls with round faces. So the middle class teacher he dated was probably like that too.

In Angeles, I've chatted up tons of girls on jeepneys, buses and malls, so I did feel like a "rock star" in how sweet and enthusiastic the girls were toward me when I told them "you're very maganda" and flirted with them. You didn't make the effort, so you don't know what it's like to enjoy that. I certainly couldn't do that in the US.

I just looked at stickmanbangkok's site. Man. It is highly ranked, but the layout is horrible. The home page has a ton of ads in the middle, which cover up the navigation links, which took me a long time to even find! That's the worst design I've ever seen! The text is also too big and the style of the pages is like something from the 1990's. Have a look:

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/

As you can see, upon immediate glance at all the leaderboard ads in the center, one immediately assumes that all the text between the ads are ads too. This makes the basic navigation menu hard to find. That's the worst layout of a home page I've ever seen.

But yeah, there is some comprehensive info there.
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Postby Rock » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:50 pm

Winston wrote:
I just looked at stickmanbangkok's site. Man. It is highly ranked, but the layout is horrible. The home page has a ton of ads in the middle, which cover up the navigation links, which took me a long time to even find! That's the worst design I've ever seen! The text is also too big and the style of the pages is like something from the 1990's. Have a look:

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/

As you can see, upon immediate glance at all the leaderboard ads in the center, one immediately assumes that all the text between the ads are ads too. This makes the basic navigation menu hard to find. That's the worst layout of a home page I've ever seen.

But yeah, there is some comprehensive info there.


You sure hit the nail right on the head here. Stickman has discussed the issue specifically too. He actually takes pride in maintaining his site with its original old school 'late 90s look and format', even to the detriment of efficiency and user-friendliness. I guess he's a very nostalgic man who often relishes the Bangkok he knew of the late 90s. Similarly, while most of the go-go bars have become very glitzy and modern, there are sill a handful which retain their decorum and layout from 2 or more decades ago. The old bars have an appeal which leads to strong brand loyalty with certain old timer expats

Stick may miss late 90s Bangkok because, that was soon after the Asian Financial Crises so westerners felt quite rich then. The Thai Baht fell as low as 55 to the USD, Now it hangs around 30. Also, he was quite young back then.
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Postby Rock » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:06 pm

Rock wrote:
Winston wrote:
I just looked at stickmanbangkok's site. Man. It is highly ranked, but the layout is horrible. The home page has a ton of ads in the middle, which cover up the navigation links, which took me a long time to even find! That's the worst design I've ever seen! The text is also too big and the style of the pages is like something from the 1990's. Have a look:

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/

As you can see, upon immediate glance at all the leaderboard ads in the center, one immediately assumes that all the text between the ads are ads too. This makes the basic navigation menu hard to find. That's the worst layout of a home page I've ever seen.

But yeah, there is some comprehensive info there.


You sure hit the nail right on the head here. Stickman has discussed the issue specifically too. He actually takes pride in maintaining his site with its original old school 'late 90s look and format', even to the detriment of efficiency and user-friendliness. I guess he's a very nostalgic man who often relishes the Bangkok he knew of the late 90s. Similarly, while most of the go-go bars have become very glitzy and modern, there are sill a handful which retain their decorum and layout from 2 or more decades ago. The old bars have an appeal which leads to strong brand loyalty with certain old timer expats

Stick may miss late 90s Bangkok because, that was soon after the Asian Financial Crises so westerners felt quite rich then. The Thai Baht fell as low as 55 to the USD, Now it hangs around 30. Also, he was quite young back then.


BTW, most of the value from Stickman's website for me are contained in just 2 areas: Stickman Weekly Column and Reader Submissions.
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Postby newlife » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:51 pm

[quote="Think Different"]I've never been treated as a rock star in any foreign country (about 30 I've visited). The only thing that impressed them was when they saw that I took the time to learn their language or at least make an attempt. [u]Then[/u] they treated me special; that's when they bring you into their inner circle. Otherwise, I was just another guy.

Something to keep in mind: as the US economy worsens, people abroad are starting to wake up and see that the US isn't actually paved in gold, the dollar is weak, that the "American dream" is vanishing, and some of your mystique as an American is also waning. You will find that you're becoming just another foreigner. I wouldn't overplay the "I'm an American/look at me" card too much these days. I'm seeing it here in Europe very clearly.[/quote]

I guess you are right about being an American just isn't so special anymore. I live in Asia and the dollar is even weak here. Imagine what it must feel like in Europe. :(
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