is it really easier to get laid abroad?

[Rock]

It might be American-Centric but I still stay that if you have trouble getting laid at home (the US) then you'll have just as much trouble. The women aren't any more aggressive. They may play less games but aren't any more aggressive. In your favor she MIGHT give you a signal you can use instead of forcing you to be a mind reader like you have to be here.

This is so NOT true in my own personal case. In the US, I could not even get dates, let alone get a girlfriend or get laid. But once I started traveling to places like Colombia, Thailand, Brazil, and Taiwan, I quickly transformed into a playboy. I made-up for my lost high school and pre-college days 100 times over. After those experiences abroad, I thought then that with my new-found success and confidence, I could come back home and score dates and more in college. But alas, nothing had changed. And it remains so to this day. Girlfriends, romance, sex and love, are available to me without P4P, but just in some overseas locales, not in the States. As Winston says, location, location, location.

The experience of some others I know overseas mirror my own too. Regular guys who were passed-over in the US are able to date lots of young women, some very attractive to stunning. IMO, the main limitation to this opportunity is age. If you pursue it, its going to play-out from your 20s to mid-30s in most cases.

[LarryLaffer]

And while I am complaining here, when a new member asks an innocuous question like, "What are the women like in Timbuktu," he is smacked down as if he were asking for the NATO launch codes.

Clearly this forum is not the place for me. It's unfortunate. I really am seeking information.

I know, I've noticed that recently, some new members have been attacked for asking questions. I think that if a new member asks questions without first contributing they should just be gently told that they need to contribute something to the forum first. That guy, heaven88, who asked about Rural Brazilian Women, has never returned to the forum as far as I can see. We really should not allow the kind of attacks that I've seen. We should just have a set of rules and etiquette and refer people to it before posting.

Don't leave the forum, davewe. We need more examples of people who are successful overseas. Pretty much all I see are guys who succeeded in Asia. You're the first guy I've seen succeeding in Africa.

[S_Parc]

Regular guys who were passed-over in the US are able to date lots of young women, some very attractive to stunning. IMO, the main limitation to this opportunity is age. If you pursue it, its going to play-out from your 20s to mid-30s in most cases.

Here's my limited experience... from ages 17 to 24, I did, in fact date AWs (this is the New England region); granted it wasn't easy but it was somewhat tenable for me, albeit not all that fun. The problem is that there was so much drama, manipulation, & sheer madness, that in retrospect, I wouldn't do it again.

Thus, I think that by starting out abroad, one can have more natural dialogues and openness, not entirely dissected between clique and non-clique, which can then lead to greater things down the road.

[Repatriate]

This is so NOT true in my own personal case. In the US, I could not even get dates, let alone get a girlfriend or get laid. But once I started traveling to places like Colombia, Thailand, Brazil, and Taiwan, I quickly transformed into a playboy. I made-up for my lost high school and pre-college days 100 times over. After those experiences abroad, I thought then that with my new-found success and confidence, I could come back home and score dates and more in college. But alas, nothing had changed. And it remains so to this day. Girlfriends, romance, sex and love, are available to me without P4P, but just in some overseas locales, not in the States. As Winston says, location, location, location.

Just curious Rock, but what region or state in the U.S. did you grow up in? I didn't find the U.S. that alienating and it's interesting that you faced that much rejection considering you fit into the 3 most commonly accepted categories in the U.S. 1) Right race 2) Height 3) income level that a lot of American women seem to be the most open for.

I never faced that sort of extreme rejection despite being the socially defined "wrong" race. The U.S. is definitely wacky though when it comes to socializing. There is always a palpable sense of alienation and unease that involves social interactions back in bizarro world.

[E_Irizarry]

And while I am complaining here, when a new member asks an innocuous question like, "What are the women like in Timbuktu," he is smacked down as if he were asking for the NATO launch codes.

Clearly this forum is not the place for me. It's unfortunate. I really am seeking information.

I know, I've noticed that recently, some new members have been attacked for asking questions. I think that if a new member asks questions without first contributing they should just be gently told that they need to contribute something to the forum first. That guy, heaven88, who asked about Rural Brazilian Women, has never returned to the forum as far as I can see. We really should not allow the kind of attacks that I've seen. We should just have a set of rules and etiquette and refer people to it before posting.

Don't leave the forum, davewe. We need more examples of people who are successful overseas. Pretty much all I see are guys who succeeded in Asia. You're the first guy I've seen succeeding in Africa.

I never attacked davewe. He represented himself as a genuine person. But dirtbags like Heaven88 and not_ur_avg_blk_woman1969 are frauds. I wish that davewe was not that thin-skinned to those attacks.

[davewe]

And while I am complaining here, when a new member asks an innocuous question like, "What are the women like in Timbuktu," he is smacked down as if he were asking for the NATO launch codes.

Clearly this forum is not the place for me. It's unfortunate. I really am seeking information.

I know, I've noticed that recently, some new members have been attacked for asking questions. I think that if a new member asks questions without first contributing they should just be gently told that they need to contribute something to the forum first. That guy, heaven88, who asked about Rural Brazilian Women, has never returned to the forum as far as I can see. We really should not allow the kind of attacks that I've seen. We should just have a set of rules and etiquette and refer people to it before posting.

Don't leave the forum, davewe. We need more examples of people who are successful overseas. Pretty much all I see are guys who succeeded in Asia. You're the first guy I've seen succeeding in Africa.

OK, well clearly I didn't leave, so my comment was a bit petulant, for which I am sorry. But the reasons I was pissed still stand.

I am a professional writer and it does annoy me that I cannot honestly write about my personal experience or ask a question without looking over my cyber shoulder. I will still post but perhaps more carefully.

BTW, I got several supportive IMs based on my little outburst for which I am very appreciative.

[davewe]

5. I suppose there are older guys who specialize in finding those rare young women who will give them the time of day in a romantic context. How rare do you think such women are in the States today - 1 out of 500? Worse? Better? Just curious.

A friend of mine is a therapist and about my age. We talked about this not long ago. He laughed when I asked his opinion and said, he had many clients (male and female) in such relationships but that it is often "hidden, underground". He then proceded to tell me how a 24-year old female friend had recently propositioned him. He's in an ltr so turned her down.

In the West you can find every fetish imaginable and people who are into that preference. Check out fetlife! So this stuff is not that hard to find; hell it's not really even a fetish. So, I would think the percentage is much higher than 1/500. If you ask women (and if they are honest) I suspect most will say that at one point in time she had a much older bf, even if only as an experiment. Now marriage and public scrutiny in the West - that's a different thing. Which is perhaps the difference in some of these other countries where you can marry or be public and its more accepted. This is why I am interested in travel or relocation. I have grown bored of having to pretend that I am an "age appropriate male wh acts his age" and I hope that in some other places I can be more true to who I am and what I want.

Again, I'm no PUA, by any means, but here's a tip. If you are interested in sexually adventurous younger women, go where sexually adventurous people go. Take tantra classes (I study it), go to your local sex club (we have a nice one in my town). Or just keep you eyes open and dont shut your mind.

But I agree that older men who might be interested in young women either dont have the confidence or have allowed the shaming culture to influence them.

Hmm, if that's the case, perhaps the west is the best place for a much older guy to find young women. Cus in the so-called hotspot countries, these relationships really boil down to P4P well over 99% of the time according to my experience. Since you and some of your relatives and friends can pull-it off in the States, why bother going abroad where its probably going to be tougher for you in most places (unless you wanna do P4P)?

As for fetishes, I am aware that about every type exists. I mean, there are young guys who wanna sleep with grannies too but I would guess its extremely rare (1/500 or less). I've also read that swingers clubs generally favor the young and and best looking from both sexes. These are the players who get most of the action. Older and less attractive people, especially males, get relegated to mainly watching. Have you ever been to one?

Well, lets not go the opposite way. I will not imply that it is easy or that many young women (or any women) are throwing themselves at me! I just stated that it is more common than people might believe. No way 1/500.

My reasons for investigating women in other countries or cultures are varied. But the bottom line is that as I get older, I have less patience for BS. I more or less do what I want, act as I want, say what I want, but I do enjoy environments where I can be myself romantically, without the judgment in the West. Besides, for me most American women are just not as hot.

[djfourmoney]

This is so NOT true in my own personal case. In the US, I could not even get dates, let alone get a girlfriend or get laid. But once I started traveling to places like Colombia, Thailand, Brazil, and Taiwan, I quickly transformed into a playboy. I made-up for my lost high school and pre-college days 100 times over. After those experiences abroad, I thought then that with my new-found success and confidence, I could come back home and score dates and more in college. But alas, nothing had changed. And it remains so to this day. Girlfriends, romance, sex and love, are available to me without P4P, but just in some overseas locales, not in the States. As Winston says, location, location, location.

Just curious Rock, but what region or state in the U.S. did you grow up in? I didn't find the U.S. that alienating and it's interesting that you faced that much rejection considering you fit into the 3 most commonly accepted categories in the U.S. 1) Right race 2) Height 3) income level that a lot of American women seem to be the most open for.

I never faced that sort of extreme rejection despite being the socially defined "wrong" race. The U.S. is definitely wacky though when it comes to socializing. There is always a palpable sense of alienation and unease that involves social interactions back in bizarro world.

I think if your White but not the right looking White, you might struggle. My boy Rob was the prototypical White Guy, attractive, clean cut, solid family, decent job, his own place, etc. He preferred Women of Color though and wouldn't give even some very attractive White Women the time of day. In his estimation, Asian, Hispanic, Black Women and then White Women were his order of preference.

While my boy Doug came from a Working Class family, found it difficult dating because of his working class background in a city (Simi Valley) with many solid middle class to upper middle class family (very Republican). Ended up in ORDER, a local hoe then he knocked up a childhood friend of our's sister and was sorta forced to marry this woman, who whom he's still married too. I just found out for a relationship that should have ended years ago, they are having a another child! My boy Doug is my best friend, makes great money (80-90K) but always pleasing his wife, she got the house she wanted ($2500 a month house payment), various NEW cars (current one is a '09 Tahoe) and doesn't WORK.

I haven't seen very many of my White friend struggle dating, just my boy Mark and he's dead (suicide).

In my experience, I was often the wrong color in my circle of friend when it came to women, or I just wasn't the athletic Black Man. Both my homies Mel and Stacey both worked out, were tall and Stacy's case was a track star who end up in Chico State on scholarship. Both these men by being the stereotypical athletic, tall and strong Black Man, among my friends includes a former NFL player, who's son just was picked in the 2nd round of the NFL draft and signed after the strike was over.

All these men had NO PROBLEM attracting White Women and I mean NO PROBLEM.

I only struggled as much as I wanted too I guess. Hard to identify while actually living it, but I think it was a lack of confidence and being risk adverse that doomed me to going home alone a majority of the time. Which made me become a better DJ, better at playing video games, working on cars, racing cars, all that other stuff that friends came to me for, but of no real value to women. Now being handy is a value to women looking for husbands, but I don't get extra points for that.

I stop bailing people out too. Installing car stereos for free, picking people up late at night, etc. How in a hole that I'm working my way out of, the only answer is overseas.

[Rock]

This is so NOT true in my own personal case. In the US, I could not even get dates, let alone get a girlfriend or get laid. But once I started traveling to places like Colombia, Thailand, Brazil, and Taiwan, I quickly transformed into a playboy. I made-up for my lost high school and pre-college days 100 times over. After those experiences abroad, I thought then that with my new-found success and confidence, I could come back home and score dates and more in college. But alas, nothing had changed. And it remains so to this day. Girlfriends, romance, sex and love, are available to me without P4P, but just in some overseas locales, not in the States. As Winston says, location, location, location.

Just curious Rock, but what region or state in the U.S. did you grow up in? I didn't find the U.S. that alienating and it's interesting that you faced that much rejection considering you fit into the 3 most commonly accepted categories in the U.S. 1) Right race 2) Height 3) income level that a lot of American women seem to be the most open for.

I never faced that sort of extreme rejection despite being the socially defined "wrong" race. The U.S. is definitely wacky though when it comes to socializing. There is always a palpable sense of alienation and unease that involves social interactions back in bizarro world.

I'm from small-town rural midwest (Illinois) which in theory should not be so hard. Everyone was white and there were just two classes - lower middle class blue collar and middle-upper middle class white collar/land owner. My family was in latter category. But somehow, I matured late emotionally so was kind of socially retarded which forced me to be a loner. I just didn't have the ability to interact smoothly with people my age (be funny, cool, confident and cocky, etc.). Bookwise, I had an average IQ, but socially, I was much slower. I really didn't even know what was going on most of the time. Somehow, I figured my lack of social success had something to do with the way I looked. I internalized a belief that I must be exceptionally ugly. That in turn made me very fearful of any interactions with girls or situations where I had to speak in front of the class for assignments. My shaky body language, quivering voice, and red face revealed my extreme nervousness and it became somewhat of a vicious cycle. To compound the problem, I had a super popular and well adjusted sister just a year behind me. The extreme contrast between us made my plight seem all the worse. So in my case, I can't fully blame the US environment. I was at least part of the problem as I was so messed-up in the head. But sometimes I wonder, would I have been like that if I had grown-up in a more collective social environment - say a smaller city in northern Italy?

Anyway, when I started traveling overseas, I found that many girls didn't mind my shyness and lack of confidence. I fact, they found me cute and seemed to trust me easily. Even some who didn't like most Americans would tell me that I was different (in a good way). And for some reason, whenever I met their parents, they almost always liked me too. So many of these girls totally embraced me and I was finally able to build-up self-esteem and some confidence with the opposite sex. I developed into a nice, polite, and understated guy who was no longer afraid to approach and interact with girls. I even figured out ways to speak publicly with no visible signs of fear.

But as you say, the US is wacky when it comes to socializing. So when I went back, I found that being nice and polite doesn't cut-it, even if I had lost my prior insecurities. I didn't have any old groups to plug-into plus I didn't follow sports closely. I was still behind the curve. Put me with a group of guys and I usually couldn't hold my own end of the conversation. I just listened and tried to follow. Without being part of any clique, I found it difficult to get opportunities with girls. The few times I cold approached one-on-one, the girls would act disturbed or creeped-out. It was from that point that I figured out my real social destiny existed outside of the US. American girls still didn't dig me so I had to write them off. When I went to Taiwan, I actually had a lot more confidence interacting with hot local girls who only spoke Chinese than very average looking visiting ABC girls who spoke "American" and carried that attitude around. In foreign countries, local girls who speak Americanized English too well still throw me off.

[Rock]

Well, lets not go the opposite way. I will not imply that it is easy or that many young women (or any women) are throwing themselves at me! I just stated that it is more common than people might believe. No way 1/500.

My reasons for investigating women in other countries or cultures are varied. But the bottom line is that as I get older, I have less patience for BS. I more or less do what I want, act as I want, say what I want, but I do enjoy environments where I can be myself romantically, without the judgment in the West. Besides, for me most American women are just not as hot.

Actually 1/500 ain't so bad. Just figure, if you go to a big uni with 10,000 female students, that would be 20 right there. You just have to tap on lots of shoulders ("Hey, would you consider dating a man your father's age?") to find em, lol.

As for BS, it seems impossible to escape entirely as long as you're dealing with women. But yes, people in many societies overseas won't mind your biz they way everyone seems to do in the States. Live and let live countries are the best.

As for hotness of females, I certainly don't consider the US anywhere close to the bottom of the barrel. Its very diverse and there are still plenty of cute, sexy, and hot girls around, especially in the younger age groups where you seem to be getting your dates from. PI, Indonesia, Guatemala, Bangladesh, India, Peru, and many other countries are much worse IMO.

[MrPeabody]

I would like to give one warning to younger men. There seems to be a "monger-based reality" circulating on the Internet where the underlining assumption is that all women are motivated only by money. This is why I think that, although not perfect, the PUA assumption that "women are primarily motivated by feelings and can be influenced" is more positive, psychologically healthy, and also closer to reality. For example, before I went to Thailand, I read this one blog which gave the monger centric point of view. When I went to Thailand, I lived in an middle class Thai neighborhood well away from expats and found another reality. But yet this guy seems to be considered the last word on truth for expats in Thailand. I have basically found the Internet to be an information sewer. Another example - when I wanted to learn how to trade, everyone on the Internet says it is impossible to make money. So, I got my series 7 license and apprenticed for 6 months under a man who makes over a million a year, in order to learn how it is actually done. I quickly learned that when someone says it can't be done, it means they can't do it. In any case, if you are a heterosexual, then you have to find some way of making peace with women, or you are going to be miserable. When you go to a foreign country, stay the hell away from P4P, because it will warp your whole view of reality and only create suffering for yourself. Practice approaching and getting the interest of normal women. Do your best and don't feel bad because everyone has failures. That's how you learn.

Mongering should be left to the older guys. Most young guys can get plenty of genuine intimacy and companionship from very attractive young girls as long as they go to more favorable countries and learn the required skills. The fact that younger guys have been crowding the P4P markets over the last few years does damage on two levels - 1. it can ruin their own potential for pure relationships with young women and 2. it the hurts the market for unfortunate older competitors who end up getting the scraps and/or having to pay a huge premium for a formerly inexpensive privilege.

Its very easy for a properly trained and confident average looking YOUNGER westerner to get young attractive dates, girlfriends, and sex without paying in places like LatAm, Asia, and presumably CIS countries. Learn the skills, go for regular girls, and enjoy until you settle down or can no longer compete. Then you can start pulling out that fat wallet to continue your play in a new arena, lol.

Older guys don't need to monger either. Older men have been hooking up with younger women for thousands of years. It's almost silly to even bother to try and justify this. The third world is different (but not much different then the US 100 years ago) and can't be understood through an American-centric filter. Jeez... when I was in Colombia I was turning down 19 year old ladies who wanted to date me. I would recommend that men of all ages pick a country you are genuinely interested in, learn the language, and find some off the path town and commit to living there. Let first hand direct experience tell you what reality is. Hold all opinions of others (which is second hand information) lightly.

[Rock]

I would like to give one warning to younger men. There seems to be a "monger-based reality" circulating on the Internet where the underlining assumption is that all women are motivated only by money. This is why I think that, although not perfect, the PUA assumption that "women are primarily motivated by feelings and can be influenced" is more positive, psychologically healthy, and also closer to reality. For example, before I went to Thailand, I read this one blog which gave the monger centric point of view. When I went to Thailand, I lived in an middle class Thai neighborhood well away from expats and found another reality. But yet this guy seems to be considered the last word on truth for expats in Thailand. I have basically found the Internet to be an information sewer. Another example - when I wanted to learn how to trade, everyone on the Internet says it is impossible to make money. So, I got my series 7 license and apprenticed for 6 months under a man who makes over a million a year, in order to learn how it is actually done. I quickly learned that when someone says it can't be done, it means they can't do it. In any case, if you are a heterosexual, then you have to find some way of making peace with women, or you are going to be miserable. When you go to a foreign country, stay the hell away from P4P, because it will warp your whole view of reality and only create suffering for yourself. Practice approaching and getting the interest of normal women. Do your best and don't feel bad because everyone has failures. That's how you learn.

Mongering should be left to the older guys. Most young guys can get plenty of genuine intimacy and companionship from very attractive young girls as long as they go to more favorable countries and learn the required skills. The fact that younger guys have been crowding the P4P markets over the last few years does damage on two levels - 1. it can ruin their own potential for pure relationships with young women and 2. it the hurts the market for unfortunate older competitors who end up getting the scraps and/or having to pay a huge premium for a formerly inexpensive privilege.

Its very easy for a properly trained and confident average looking YOUNGER westerner to get young attractive dates, girlfriends, and sex without paying in places like LatAm, Asia, and presumably CIS countries. Learn the skills, go for regular girls, and enjoy until you settle down or can no longer compete. Then you can start pulling out that fat wallet to continue your play in a new arena, lol.

Older guys don't need to monger either. Older men have been hooking up with younger women for thousands of years. It's almost silly to even bother to try and justify this. The third world is different (but not much different then the US 100 years ago) and can't be understood through an American-centric filter. Jeez... when I was in Colombia I was turning down 19 year old ladies who wanted to date me. I would recommend that men of all ages pick a country you are genuinely interested in, learn the language, and find some off the path town and commit to living there. Let first hand direct experience tell you what reality is. Hold all opinions of others (which is second hand information) lightly.

I totally agree with your second to last sentence. Somehow, different people in similar environment/circumstances often experience dramatically varied realities. So you never know for certain about a place until you go there and experience it directly.

But, where do get this notion that older men have been hooking-up with younger women for thousands of years and not having to pay for the privilege (monger)? What are your sources of information? As I've written previously, its hardly accurate to go by what kings, emperors, and other top-dog alpha types did cus we're talking about the regular guy, not the top 0.01%.

I'm surprised at what you say about Colombia. Do you look exceptionally good and/or young for your age? Or were the young girls who hit on you possibly desperate from very poor backgrounds (I think Colombia still has many of these types)?

- When I stayed in Cali, I met a 50 year-old British dude who imported and sold water and pool filters to local hotels, a low paying job. He had been living there over 12 years and spoke very fluent Spanish. And he was fairly youthful looking with a full head of white hair. Anyway, this guy could easily strike up convos with locals including young women. And he often did, wherever we went. People in Cali tend to be pretty warm, friendly, and approachable. But, all of the girls I knew who met him felt that he would be too old to date. They liked talking to him and all but romance is a different issue.

- If you find a legit Colombian dating site which requires women to specify an age range for their ideal partner, the upper limit chosen by childless young women is usually no higher than 35-40.

- As I mentioned before, the older gringos I met mostly dated women aged 30+ with kids. And couples on the streets were generally of similar age.

[Repatriate]

The extreme contrast between us made my plight seem all the worse. So in my case, I can't fully blame the US environment. I was at least part of the problem as I was so messed-up in the head. But sometimes I wonder, would I have been like that if I had grown-up in a more collective social environment - say a smaller city in northern Italy?

I had a friend here in Thailand who was from Rome. He was confident, fairly handsome (classic northern italian features) and could speak Thai fluently. I asked him about women in Italy once and he said they were difficult to get along with because of the intense male competition. I've never heard any other western Europeans complain about this though. For example the French seem perfectly comfortable with their social and sexual life.

With your personality I think you would have done a lot better living in a mixed cosmopolitan city. I can't imagine that you would have had the same issues living in a big suburb around LA. One of my friends who I went to high school with was one of the few white guys at school but was pretty well accepted.

But as we've all noted already a big part of it is just the culture and process of Americanization. Once women pick up too many "Americanized" traits they emulate that detached and prickly quality that is difficult to deal with for most guys. I have noticed similar things in Thailand. Girls that have been abroad for awhile are bitchy and conceited and usually hang out in groups of girls who are similarly bitchy and conceited.

[MrPeabody]

I would like to give one warning to younger men. There seems to be a "monger-based reality" circulating on the Internet where the underlining assumption is that all women are motivated only by money. This is why I think that, although not perfect, the PUA assumption that "women are primarily motivated by feelings and can be influenced" is more positive, psychologically healthy, and also closer to reality. For example, before I went to Thailand, I read this one blog which gave the monger centric point of view. When I went to Thailand, I lived in an middle class Thai neighborhood well away from expats and found another reality. But yet this guy seems to be considered the last word on truth for expats in Thailand. I have basically found the Internet to be an information sewer. Another example - when I wanted to learn how to trade, everyone on the Internet says it is impossible to make money. So, I got my series 7 license and apprenticed for 6 months under a man who makes over a million a year, in order to learn how it is actually done. I quickly learned that when someone says it can't be done, it means they can't do it. In any case, if you are a heterosexual, then you have to find some way of making peace with women, or you are going to be miserable. When you go to a foreign country, stay the hell away from P4P, because it will warp your whole view of reality and only create suffering for yourself. Practice approaching and getting the interest of normal women. Do your best and don't feel bad because everyone has failures. That's how you learn.

Mongering should be left to the older guys. Most young guys can get plenty of genuine intimacy and companionship from very attractive young girls as long as they go to more favorable countries and learn the required skills. The fact that younger guys have been crowding the P4P markets over the last few years does damage on two levels - 1. it can ruin their own potential for pure relationships with young women and 2. it the hurts the market for unfortunate older competitors who end up getting the scraps and/or having to pay a huge premium for a formerly inexpensive privilege.

Its very easy for a properly trained and confident average looking YOUNGER westerner to get young attractive dates, girlfriends, and sex without paying in places like LatAm, Asia, and presumably CIS countries. Learn the skills, go for regular girls, and enjoy until you settle down or can no longer compete. Then you can start pulling out that fat wallet to continue your play in a new arena, lol.

Older guys don't need to monger either. Older men have been hooking up with younger women for thousands of years. It's almost silly to even bother to try and justify this. The third world is different (but not much different then the US 100 years ago) and can't be understood through an American-centric filter. Jeez... when I was in Colombia I was turning down 19 year old ladies who wanted to date me. I would recommend that men of all ages pick a country you are genuinely interested in, learn the language, and find some off the path town and commit to living there. Let first hand direct experience tell you what reality is. Hold all opinions of others (which is second hand information) lightly.

I totally agree with your second to last sentence. Somehow, different people in similar environment/circumstances often experience dramatically varied realities. So you never know for certain about a place until you go there and experience it directly.

But, where do get this notion that older men have been hooking-up with younger women for thousands of years and not having to pay for the privilege (monger)? What are your sources of information? As I've written previously, its hardly accurate to go by what kings, emperors, and other top-dog alpha types did cus we're talking about the regular guy, not the top 0.01%.

I'm surprised at what you say about Colombia. Do you look exceptionally good and/or young for your age? Or were the young girls who hit on you possibly desperate from very poor backgrounds (I think Colombia still has many of these types)?

- When I stayed in Cali, I met a 50 year-old British dude who imported and sold water and pool filters to local hotels, a low paying job. He had been living there over 12 years and spoke very fluent Spanish. And he was fairly youthful looking with a full head of white hair. Anyway, this guy could easily strike up convos with locals including young women. And he often did, wherever we went. People in Cali tend to be pretty warm, friendly, and approachable. But, all of the girls I knew who met him felt that he would be too old to date. They liked talking to him and all but romance is a different issue.

- If you find a legit Colombian dating site which requires women to specify an age range for their ideal partner, the upper limit chosen by childless young women is usually no higher than 35-40.

- As I mentioned before, the older gringos I met mostly dated women aged 30+ with kids. And couples on the streets were generally of similar age.

When I was in Colombia I never did P4P. And I was married to a costena. So, I got to see the costena culture from the inside and have been in small villages in the interior between Barranquilla and Santa Marta. It’s a traditional, conservative culture and it’s not uncommon for older men to marry younger women there. Guys who do P4P see a Potemkin village and think they are seeing the real country. Also, Cali is another very different subculture of Colombia. Colombia has several very different cultures – the coast, Cali, Medellin, Bogota, they are all different.

[Rock]

When I was in Colombia I never did P4P. And I was married to a costena. So, I got to see the costena culture from the inside and have been in small villages in the interior between Barranquilla and Santa Marta. It’s a traditional, conservative culture and it’s not uncommon for older men to marry younger women there. Guys who do P4P see a Potemkin village and think they are seeing the real country. Also, Cali is another very different subculture of Colombia. Colombia has several very different cultures – the coast, Cali, Medellin, Bogota, they are all different.

Yes, I did find very noticeable differences between the regions. Many of the gringos I knew there didn't monger at all. I mean, age is not an issue there in P4P, just for real dating. That's the reason they were with older women. But, they stayed in the cities cus its quite dangerous to travel through rural areas in the interior of the country. Nobody I knew of ventured out into smaller villages like you did up north.

I didn't like Bogota cus people there seemed colder and much busier. Plus, I could never get used to the weird high altitude weather (low to mid 60s during day with hot sun but chilling breezes). On the other hand, Cali just 50 minutes away by plane had a very warn and inviting local culture and tropical climate. Medellin kind of fell in-between the two but had more lighter skin types and a much smaller percentage of African Colombians. The locals I met up in Cartagena and Baranquilla seemed a lot more reserved, with less upfront warmth and smiling. But Cartagena has such a beautiful old town area and I also felt a lot safer up there in general. Perhaps some of the women are a bit more flexible about age requirements for men they date too. But still, the overwhelming majority of couples I saw were of similar age.

Now in the village you lived in, you say it was not uncommon. But was it the norm or still an exception (say less than 1 out of 10 couples with 20+ year age gap)? Also, I'm very curious. Do such villages have a visible percentage of classy looking hot women like you see in the urban areas mentioned above, especially Bogota? It seems like in most countries I visit, most of the cuties, hotties, and stunners according to my taste gravitate to the main urban areas, especially the capital or premier city. Is Colombia any different?