Happier Abroad Forum Community

Rock wrote:

MrPeabody wrote:
When I was in Colombia I never did P4P. And I was married to a costena. So, I got to see the costena culture from the inside and have been in small villages in the interior between Barranquilla and Santa Marta. It’s a traditional, conservative culture and it’s not uncommon for older men to marry younger women there. Guys who do P4P see a Potemkin village and think they are seeing the real country. Also, Cali is another very different subculture of Colombia. Colombia has several very different cultures – the coast, Cali, Medellin, Bogota, they are all different.

Yes, I did find very noticeable differences between the regions. Many of the gringos I knew there didn't monger at all. I mean, age is not an issue there in P4P, just for real dating. That's the reason they were with older women. But, they stayed in the cities cus its quite dangerous to travel through rural areas in the interior of the country. Nobody I knew of ventured out into smaller villages like you did up north.

I didn't like Bogota cus people there seemed colder and much busier. Plus, I could never get used to the weird high altitude weather (low to mid 60s during day with hot sun but chilling breezes). On the other hand, Cali just 50 minutes away by plane had a very warn and inviting local culture and tropical climate. Medellin kind of fell in-between the two but had more lighter skin types and a much smaller percentage of African Colombians. The locals I met up in Cartagena and Baranquilla seemed a lot more reserved, with less upfront warmth and smiling. But Cartagena has such a beautiful old town area and I also felt a lot safer up there in general. Perhaps some of the women are a bit more flexible about age requirements for men they date too. But still, the overwhelming majority of couples I saw were of similar age.

Now in the village you lived in, you say it was not uncommon. But was it the norm or still an exception (say less than 1 out of 10 couples with 20+ year age gap)? Also, I'm very curious. Do such villages have a visible percentage of classy looking hot women like you see in the urban areas mentioned above, especially Bogota? It seems like in most countries I visit, most of the cuties, hotties, and stunners according to my taste gravitate to the main urban areas, especially the capital or premier city. Is Colombia any different?

Rock wrote:

Repatriate wrote:

Rock wrote: This is so NOT true in my own personal case. In the US, I could not even get dates, let alone get a girlfriend or get laid. But once I started traveling to places like Colombia, Thailand, Brazil, and Taiwan, I quickly transformed into a playboy. I made-up for my lost high school and pre-college days 100 times over. After those experiences abroad, I thought then that with my new-found success and confidence, I could come back home and score dates and more in college. But alas, nothing had changed. And it remains so to this day. Girlfriends, romance, sex and love, are available to me without P4P, but just in some overseas locales, not in the States. As Winston says, location, location, location.

Just curious Rock, but what region or state in the U.S. did you grow up in? I didn't find the U.S. that alienating and it's interesting that you faced that much rejection considering you fit into the 3 most commonly accepted categories in the U.S. 1) Right race 2) Height 3) income level that a lot of American women seem to be the most open for.

I never faced that sort of extreme rejection despite being the socially defined "wrong" race. The U.S. is definitely wacky though when it comes to socializing. There is always a palpable sense of alienation and unease that involves social interactions back in bizarro world.

I'm from small-town rural midwest (Illinois) which in theory should not be so hard. Everyone was white and there were just two classes - lower middle class blue collar and middle-upper middle class white collar/land owner. My family was in latter category. But somehow, I matured late emotionally so was kind of socially retarded which forced me to be a loner. I just didn't have the ability to interact smoothly with people my age (be funny, cool, confident and cocky, etc.). Bookwise, I had an average IQ, but socially, I was much slower. I really didn't even know what was going on most of the time. Somehow, I figured my lack of social success had something to do with the way I looked. I internalized a belief that I must be exceptionally ugly. That in turn made me very fearful of any interactions with girls or situations where I had to speak in front of the class for assignments. My shaky body language, quivering voice, and red face revealed my extreme nervousness and it became somewhat of a vicious cycle. To compound the problem, I had a super popular and well adjusted sister just a year behind me. The extreme contrast between us made my plight seem all the worse. So in my case, I can't fully blame the US environment. I was at least part of the problem as I was so messed-up in the head. But sometimes I wonder, would I have been like that if I had grown-up in a more collective social environment - say a smaller city in northern Italy?

Anyway, when I started traveling overseas, I found that many girls didn't mind my shyness and lack of confidence. I fact, they found me cute and seemed to trust me easily. Even some who didn't like most Americans would tell me that I was different (in a good way). And for some reason, whenever I met their parents, they almost always liked me too. So many of these girls totally embraced me and I was finally able to build-up self-esteem and some confidence with the opposite sex. I developed into a nice, polite, and understated guy who was no longer afraid to approach and interact with girls. I even figured out ways to speak publicly with no visible signs of fear.

But as you say, the US is wacky when it comes to socializing. So when I went back, I found that being nice and polite doesn't cut-it, even if I had lost my prior insecurities. I didn't have any old groups to plug-into plus I didn't follow sports closely. I was still behind the curve. Put me with a group of guys and I usually couldn't hold my own end of the conversation. I just listened and tried to follow. Without being part of any clique, I found it difficult to get opportunities with girls. The few times I cold approached one-on-one, the girls would act disturbed or creeped-out. It was from that point that I figured out my real social destiny existed outside of the US. American girls still didn't dig me so I had to write them off. When I went to Taiwan, I actually had a lot more confidence interacting with hot local girls who only spoke Chinese than very average looking visiting ABC girls who spoke "American" and carried that attitude around. In foreign countries, local girls who speak Americanized English too well still throw me off.

Rock wrote:

davewe wrote:

Rock wrote:

davewe wrote:

Rock wrote: Lad's writing tends to be very inspirational. IMO, its often overly optimistic - exaggerating the good side and downplaying the bad. Anyway, if you read between the lines, especially on this forum, you will find that he is happy to play the sugar daddy role.

In my short time on this forum I notice that the opinions vary wildly. Even the opinions of an individual varies from day to day. Makes me believe that their opinion is partly based on whether they got laid the night before

You must have a very short memory. You just wrote that exact same phrase a few minutes ago in an earlier post. How is getting laid an issue for guys with steady girlfriends who are always open to sex? And where have I been inconsistent in previous posts?

Had a glitch with the original reply somehow. You haven't been inconsistent. Others for sure...

However, the fact that some guys get sex without paying or in some way providing for the woman (or at least they claim to) does not disprove my point that most relationships have a financial or caretaking component. Isn't that why many of us are here: that Western marriages and relationships are dysfunctional and the man gets screwed (and not in a good way)?

But I'm sorry. While I have enjoyed much of the info posted here, most of it is bizarre. If I go to a forum on any subject, let's say "widgets", and the members constantly post, "We hate widgets. Widgets suck. You should never go looking for a widget," it would be a little strange. This forum is filled with threads on the unhappiness of many of its members in their abroad pursuits, such as the owner. As a newbie sifting through all that it is weird.

And while I am complaining here, when a new member asks an innocuous question like, "What are the women like in Timbuktu," he is smacked down as if he were asking for the NATO launch codes.

Clearly this forum is not the place for me. It's unfortunate. I really am seeking information.

1. "And while I am complaining here, when a new member asks an innocuous question like, "What are the women like in Timbuktu," he is smacked down as if he were asking for the NATO launch codes." The forum already has so much info on what brand-newbies ask. So is it asking too much for them to do a bit of preliminary archive research instead of just flying in with those types of questions which have generally been addressed many times before? This is an info exchange forum. People who start out by introducing themselves and setting the stage for a long term exchange of knowledge and experience are reasonable. But those who just rehash old questions and offer nothing in return are adding no value. And oftentimes they turn out to be trolls or even spammers. Why do you supposed veterans here would want posters like that?

2. You mean relationships in the USA or all over the world? Many of us including myself do not live in the States. Here in Taiwan, I don't see many guys getting financially raped by the justice system even though they tend to marry in their 20s. And its part of traditional culture here for women to contribute to the man's business in whatever ways she is best suited. If the US is so bad for relationships with women, why do you continue to stay there?

3. Truth is not always what you wanna hear. Don't blame the messengers for being honest according to their experiences. And contradictions between posters are natural given the diversity of members here - in terms of age, race, geographic location, and travel or living abroad experience. For example, a young black guy in Germany will generally have a very different Happier Abroad experience than a middle aged Asian guy in Colombia.

Seems like you want everything sugar coated in black and white terms and only to be encouraged about how great things are once you leave the US. If so, then I believe you are in the wrong place. This is a truth seeking venue, not a simplistic religion. I've done my best to give you a balanced view of some of the realities I've seen first hand overseas, both good and bad. But you don't seem to handle bounds of reason type limitations well. Personally, I voted with my feet at a young age and never regretted. But wherever you go abroad, you are still on planet Earth. It ain't some problem free paradise. Some guys may get that impression initially, during their honeymoon phase. But after a few days to weeks, reality sets-in.

For an interesting contrast, consider what Winston, as a 4 year expat, has written recently about Angeles (makes it out to be hell on earth) and compare it with this post by short term visitors on Global Nanpa (pasted below):


I am 47 years old and in good health.
I’m not struggling with a mid-life crisis. Everything is, or was, going well for me.

I was satisfied with my life. I was happy and content, or I thought I was. So what the hell happened to me?

I have a good job. I was satisfied with it. I have a great wife, we almost never argue. We have two fine children, a boy and a girl, both in college. I make good money with cash in the bank. We have a nice house and a summer place on the beach. Even the pets, two cats and a dog, get along well together.
I went fishing to Canada once a year with my buddies, played tennis almost every weekend, golfed occasionally, movies with the family sometimes, cards with other couples once in a while, poker with the boys a couple of times a month, a night out with the guys once every blue moon, and sex with the wife once every two weeks or so.

Now I don’t give a damn about my current life. So what could have possibly turned my world upside-down? I went to Angeles City in the Philippines.

My downfall started several years ago when the three friends I go fishing with to Canada every year decided instead to go to Angeles City. They said they’d heard the streets were lined with sexy, young, and beautiful women, that all you had to do was show up with some cash in your pocket.
I’d heard those stories about other places in the world but I discounted them. I told them that was just a tall tale, but they insisted they were going. I couldn’t persuade them to change their minds. They attempted to convince me to go also but I wasn’t interested.

Their first trip was June 2001. They left grown men and returned little kids. They walked around most of the time with silly grins on their faces, and acted like they had a big secret they were just itching to tell everyone but couldn’t. When they were alone with the other guys, all they talked about was Angeles City. They told the wildest stories I’d ever heard. I quite frankly thought they had lost their minds, relating outrageous tales that couldn’t possibly be true.

One night my wife asked me if I had noticed anything different about my friends. When I told her I hadn’t, she said that my friends’ wives, all friends of hers, had told her their husbands had been acting a little strange ever since they returned from the last fishing trip.
I had lied to her. Of course I knew why they had been behaving strangely. The Philippines had done it to them. My friends were ten years old again, always carrying that goofy grin on their faces. I couldn’t understand how one trip to that place could cause so many changes in them.

They went the next year too, in June 2002. This time they returned with photographs. They had shots with two or three girls in the pool at their hotel, in restaurants, even in their rooms. The girls were gorgeous, sexy and young. They weren’t lying about that.Those photographs were their prized possession. They would excitedly jab a finger at one of the pictures and their voices would jump an octave while they related one of their stories. It was really strange behavior for normally mature men in their forties.

They described sex acts with those girls that I had only dreamed about, things that I couldn’t even mention to my wife. She would have left me instantly if I had even remotely suggested it might be fun to have a threesome with another female. I can just about guarantee you those kinds of subjects are never broached with a white, middle-class, Baptist wife.

Despite their photos, the vivid descriptions and graphic details of their latest adventures, I didn’t entirely believe their stories. I told them those things just don’t happen. I admitted they probably had sex with those girls, but I said I just didn’t believe they had two or three of those girls in the bed and had sex with them all at the same time.

My buddies lost interest in everything except talking about Angeles City and planning their next trip. My wife noticed the changes too, asking why I wasn’t playing tennis or golfing with the guys anymore. I just told her that they had gotten busy doing other things lately. She gave me one of those “Oh yeah?� looks. She knew something was awry but since normalcy was still the standard in our house, she didn’t push me on the subject.

It was a few months after their second trip to the Philippines that the guy that worked in the same company with me, separated from his wife. He was the first one.I was shocked when my wife told me about it. His wife had been over to my house, crying on my wife’s shoulder, really balling her eyes out my wife said. She told my wife she didn’t understand her husband anymore, they hadn’t had sex in months, he had been really weird and that she had no idea why he wanted to leave her.

My friend refused to explain anything to his wife. He wouldn’t discuss it with his two kids who were already grown and out of the house. He just took off, leaving his wife alone.

I wondered if the Philippines had pushed him over the edge. I talked to him, asking him if he was sick or something. He replied that he didn’t want to be married anymore. I told him it was those trips to the Philippines that had screwed him up. I remember his response clearly to this day,
“You don’t understand. You just don’t understand. You have to go there to understand�.

Shortly thereafter he filed for divorce. I talked to him again, telling him he was stupid for throwing away everything he had worked for the last twenty-five years or so. He just sat there with a hang-dog look, slowly nodding his head back and forth. He acted like he was being coerced to do something against his will, yet in his next breath when he mentioned Angeles City, he was instantly transformed, happy and grinning again.

I thought he was just a weak individual with no self-control or self-discipline. I told him bluntly he was just letting the little head do the thinking for the big head and that he should grow up and get over it. He told me that wasn’t it and repeated that I just had to go there to understand. It was all completely beyond my comprehension.They made their third trip to Angeles City in June 2003. When they returned, all they talked about was going again. All they cared about was getting back to Angeles City. It was their sole topic every time I saw them. Their behavior and attitudes were totally alien to me.

The guy that worked in the company with me was now divorced. Within two weeks of returning from their third trip, another one of the guys left his wife. My wife began wondering out loud about those fishing trips to Canada but she never confronted me directly.

In February of this year, my company sent a team of us to Japan on business. The friend that was now divorced was a member. We had planned to spend two weeks in Japan. As it turned out, we finished in a week. My friend suggested we take a jaunt down to the Philippines. I told him I wasn’t interested but he persisted until I relented.I wasn’t concerned in the least about what the Philippines might do to me. What had happened to my friends wouldn’t happen to me. So what if there are young sexy girls in the Philippines? So what if I could have sex with them? I wasn’t worried. I wasn’t going to Angeles to have sex with those women. Some of those girls in Angeles were my daughter’s age. I couldn’t have sex with women that young, no way! I couldn’t even imagine having sex with women that young. I was going to merely see what all the fuss was about.

So now I have been back from Angeles City almost three months. I thought a trip to the Philippines wouldn’t phase me. I was wrong. I thought I could return to my normal life without any disruptions. I was wrong. I assumed when I returned home, the memories of the trip would fade. I was wrong. I thought I would be able to deal with whatever Angeles City threw at me. I was totally wrong!

I understand my friends now. Everything they told me is true. When we get together, we howl and laugh and slap each other on the back. We tell the same stories over and over. We are closer friends now than ever before, almost brothers. We are members of a special group, for we have been to Angeles City!!!!

My friend took me to the Champagne Club first. He was well known there, several girls squealing, laughing, grabbing him and greeting us as we walked in the door. In no time at all he had introduced me to four or five stunning beauties; and I could take one, two or all of them home with me? It was something I’d never thought possible. Within five minutes of entering the Champagne Club, I had succumbed to the charms of Angeles City. I didn’t realize it then but I was already lost forever.

All I want now is to go again. I dream of the first night in Angeles City that changed my life forever. I had two gorgeous, sweet girls, naked with me in the hotel swimming pool, taking showers with me, all three of us nude in the bed, doing things I had hardly even read about in racy novels.

Or I dream of the time I stayed with Maricel, only twenty years old with a soft, sexy, purring voice that will melt you like an ice cube in the hot Philippino sun. She has a body and face that would win beauty contests in the United States.We were together four glorious days and nights. We spend most of the days around the hotel pool, swimming, throwing the beach ball back and forth and splashing water. She would wrap her legs around my waist and her arms around my neck and pull me close while we were lounging in the water. Sitting by the pool she was always near me, touching me or holding my hand. Frequently she crawled up in my lap, playing with my ears or hair and kissing me on the neck, face and lips.

She was the most loving, affectionate and accommodating woman I’d ever met in my life. My wish was her command. She would run get my cigars, go to the store to pick up snacks for the room and take the dirty clothes to the laundry. You name it, she did it for me. She never complained about anything, not once in four days.We made love in the morning when we woke up. Usually in the late afternoon we’d make love again. At night we’d go out to eat and then go bar hopping. Afterwards we’d return to the hotel and make love again. She always wanted to sleep close to me, throwing an arm and a leg over my body. Sometimes I would just lay there listening to her soft breathing next to my ear while she slept. It was heaven!

She wasn’t jealous either. When we were in the clubs, I could call other girls over, buy them drinks and talk to them. She would sit close, always touching me while she joined in the conversations. She even told me it was ok if I wanted to take another girl with us.

Can you imagine a white woman volunteering to bring another chick home for sex? I thought I was dreaming. This couldn’t be happening. This young beautiful lady was willing to share me with another girl, at the same time? I told her “No� because I was so enraptured of her, I didn’t want to share her with anyone, not even another girl.

We were making love three times a day, sometimes more. During the day she would sometimes whisper in my ear, “Honey, let’s go inside.� We did it everywhere imaginable in the room, on the desk, on the floor, sitting on the couch, in the shower, everywhere! We even did it in the hotel pool late one night.

Any kind of sex I wanted was OK with her. In fact she showed me some things I’d never done before. If you can imagine it, I think we did it. Our love-making was indescribable!Never in my life had I felt like this. I had boundless energy the entire trip, even though I was sleeping only three or four hours a night. I feel twenty years younger now. I am full in spirit. I am alive!!!

Angeles City is amazing. Everyone smiles and greets you wherever you go, even the girls on the street. They hooted and hollered when I walked into the clubs where I was known. The guys living there were friendly. You could easily meet them anywhere, in the clubs, outdoor bars, Kokomo’s and other restaurants. They would spend time drinking a beer, chatting and relating their life experiences with you. I wanted to be like them. I wanted to live their lives.When I was in Angeles City, I was a new person. The world as I knew it had ceased to exist. I could speak freely. I didn’t have to modify my behavior for fear of repercussions. People left me alone. I could do just about anything I wanted and wouldn’t be criticized – there was no politically-correct bullshit in Angeles City.

I didn’t have to get up early and drag myself to work every day. I didn’t have a demanding boss looking over my shoulder. I didn’t have those relentless monthly bills that are unavoidable at home. I didn’t have to worry about changing the oil in the cars, cutting the grass, fixing the roof or catering to the wife’s needs. Hell, I didn’t even have to take out the garbage.I had miraculously escaped the rat race and the suffocating restrictions American society imposes on all of us.

Angles City!!!! This is the way it is supposed to be! I am free! I control my destiny!So after one trip to Angeles City, I found I was locked into my life at home, a life I didn’t want anymore. I thought I had lost my mind. My behavior changed, just as my friends’ did. My wife started asking me what was wrong with me. I could see the worried look on her face. She was concerned for my mental health. I wouldn’t, couldn’t explain anything to her. She suggested I see a psychiatrist. I did, explaining in much greater detail than here.While I talked for over an hour, the doc sat there with this incredulous look on his face. I wondered if he was deciding if I was a complete lunatic or planning his first trip to the Philippines.

He told me I wasn’t crazy, advising me to grow up, get over it and get on with my life, the same thing I had told my friends. Ironically I found myself repeating, just as my friends had to me,
“You don’t understand. You just don’t understand. You have to go there to understand�.

Going to the doctor didn’t do much good. I did decide I hadn’t totally lost my marbles, but I had lost interest in everything I had held dear before.

The job? The hell with it. I don’t care anymore. I still go to work because I have to. Believe me, if it wasn’t required, I wouldn’t set foot in the office another day. I have another 15 years to work before I’m eligible to retire. I don’t think I can last that long. Physically I’m ok. Mentally, I shudder to think I have to work another fifteen years before I can retire to the Philippines.

My hobbies? Tennis anyone? Screw it, I never play the game anymore. Fishing? I’ll give you my rods and reels, just drop by the house some afternoon. Golf? My clubs can turn to rust for all I care. Playing cards with the wife and friends? No thanks, it’s boring. Poker with the guys? Yeah but we just drink and talk about the Philippines. I seldom see a movie and I never watch TV anymore.

I had never spent a lot of time on the computer at home before I went to Angeles City but I do now, always checking the bulletin boards. I crave any information at all about the place. I cruise the Angeles City and bar web sites, looking at all the photos and devouring any news about the town. When the wife’s out of the house or sleeping, I chat with the girls I know there.I haven’t had sex with my wife since I returned from the Philippines. I’m not interested in sex with her anymore. We don’t even sleep in the same bedroom now. My wife has done nothing wrong but she’s losing me, 27 years of marriage down the toilet. She’s aware it’s happening but doesn’t understand why or how to stop it.

I am thrown into depression and despair when I hear her crying and sobbing through the wall at night, yet at the same time I’m wishing she would finally go to sleep so I can sneak off to the computer and chat with the girls in Angeles City. We are on the road to divorce and like my friends before me, it’s entirely my fault, yet I am powerless to change anything.

I know I can not go back to being the man I was previously. I admit to you I don’t even want to go back to my prior life, for I have been to the Elysian Fields. I am obsessed with returning. The desire to be on the streets, and in the bars in Angeles City is an overpowering drug I can not control. I can’t wait until I get on the plane again. It’s all I dream of.

I dislike myself though, for not being strong enough to resist the siren call of Angeles City. I abhor the thoughts, emotions and desires that lure me back to Fields Avenue, yet in the next second, my spirit soars and I am smiling again as I think of my next trip, but I hate myself for ruining my family’s lives. Sometimes I cry too, knowing what I will ultimately do to them.

Yet my thoughts about Angeles City never dissipate. I care to talk only of my experiences there. I am irresistibly drawn to Fields Avenue just as lemmings are to the sea. All I want is to get back to what was heaven on earth for me. It is the sole reason for my existence anymore.

If you are happy now, don’t go to Angeles City. Angeles City will destroy your life. Once you have visited that town, you will lose interest in everything and everyone at home. Every waking hour you will spend plotting to return again, and again, and again, and again.

I am an Angeles City junkie now, addicted until I die.

Don’t go to Angeles City. Don’t ruin your life as I have done.

ladislav wrote:Abroad is a big place. 200 countries or so. In some countries it is easier, in some- it is harder. In poorer non Muslim countries there is prostitution- a convenient way to get laid for very little money. And there is a lot of it. Thailand tops the list, followed by Philippines, Costa Rica and Indonesia. Then you have legalized prostitution in certain Euro countries.
If you are young, handsome and tall and have money, you can also meet non-whores and get laid. For the rest of us, we just pay and play.

djfourmoney wrote:

Rock wrote:

djfourmoney wrote:

Rock wrote:

MrPeabody wrote:I would like to give one warning to younger men. There seems to be a "monger-based reality" circulating on the Internet where the underlining assumption is that all women are motivated only by money. This is why I think that, although not perfect, the PUA assumption that "women are primarily motivated by feelings and can be influenced" is more positive, psychologically healthy, and also closer to reality. For example, before I went to Thailand, I read this one blog which gave the monger centric point of view. When I went to Thailand, I lived in an middle class Thai neighborhood well away from expats and found another reality. But yet this guy seems to be considered the last word on truth for expats in Thailand. I have basically found the Internet to be an information sewer. Another example - when I wanted to learn how to trade, everyone on the Internet says it is impossible to make money. So, I got my series 7 license and apprenticed for 6 months under a man who makes over a million a year, in order to learn how it is actually done. I quickly learned that when someone says it can't be done, it means they can't do it. In any case, if you are a heterosexual, then you have to find some way of making peace with women, or you are going to be miserable. When you go to a foreign country, stay the hell away from P4P, because it will warp your whole view of reality and only create suffering for yourself. Practice approaching and getting the interest of normal women. Do your best and don't feel bad because everyone has failures. That's how you learn.

Mongering should be left to the older guys. Most young guys can get plenty of genuine intimacy and companionship from very attractive young girls as long as they go to more favorable countries and learn the required skills. The fact that younger guys have been crowding the P4P markets over the last few years does damage on two levels - 1. it can ruin their own potential for pure relationships with young women and 2. it the hurts the market for unfortunate older competitors who end up getting the scraps and/or having to pay a huge premium for a formerly inexpensive privilege.

Its very easy for a properly trained and confident average looking YOUNGER westerner to get young attractive dates, girlfriends, and sex without paying in places like LatAm, Asia, and presumably CIS countries. Learn the skills, go for regular girls, and enjoy until you settle down or can no longer compete. Then you can start pulling out that fat wallet to continue your play in a new arena, lol.

I don't know about this. This sounds similar the canard about bringing a foreign women into the US as your bride.

Look, men have needs. How do you solve this basic human need? Find a woman that's willing to put aside all the BS and f**k you anyway because she has needs? This happens so rarely and is really a right place at the right time sort of thing that I can't recommend this.

Just as Tom Cruise put to his fellow high school students. You're out $40-$50 or more on an average date. On top of that, your armed with the knowledge from the book "Marry Him" that women list several hundred things NOT to give a guy a second date. Now if your not completely cynical, you would look at this as an investment intimacy to be collected at a later date. Even if Date #1 went exceedingly well in your estimation, almost anything could prevent a 2nd date.

So where would you be? I happen to think most young men struggle. Its really obvious after DJ'ing nightclubs on a regular basic since 1991-1992 that most men stand around waiting for something to happen to them while a few are aggressive enough and have a strong enough ego to stare rejection down.

I am not saying P4P replaces dating but I think that's what your saying.

I know you've been to Europe and all. But your perspective sounds very Americentric. I'm coming from the opposite extreme. I think things work a lot differently in some corners of the world than what you're used to.

As for P4P replacing dating, I believe its a very poor substitute and should be used very sparingly if at all by younger guys. But for older guys, it can be the difference between being with a real woman or maturating to porn. So it partially serves a purpose and fills a need - sexual release and sometimes the illusion of companionship. But younger guys hardly need this since they can easily get plenty of the real deal as long as they adequately prepare and go to the right places.

Having said all that, some young guys are so horny and impatient that they need to supplement their real dating with occasional prostitutes on the side. Thing is, the P4P route can be a slippery slope and lead to all kinds of problems. So it behooves such guys to exercise strong discipline and self control. In other words, don't over-indulge in the easy fix. Put in the work, find the locations, and build genuine relationships while bolstering your self confidence in the process.

It might be American-Centric but I still stay that if you have trouble getting laid at home (the US) then you'll have just as much trouble. The women aren't any more aggressive. They may play less games but aren't any more aggressive. In your favor she MIGHT give you a signal you can use instead of forcing you to be a mind reader like you have to be here.

I'm looking at it from a mongers perspective, guys looking for short term hook ups with women, Pro or Non-Pro. They say the heyday in Eastern Europe was the mid-90's and how long ago was that? Many say the best time to be in Thailand was about a decade ago. Mongers are explorers of years gone by. By the time the layman/mainstream hits a location they have used up the talent pool by then and made women suspicious of Western Men. This is where the term Sex Tourist comes from.

Is there ANY other reason to be in some of these countries??? Not really chasing women is the past time. I'm not a woman, I'm not a cultural freak or any of that. I went to Germany to find my wife from possible two women, narrowed it down to one. When the plan expanded it, it became a European Vacation.

For RELATIONSHIPS, I agree with your suggestion. But c'mon you said I sounded American-centric? Your saying resist the desire to have sex so you can strengthen your resolve? Besides, let's be realistic, only if you have affordable access to Mexico is P4P even on your radar. Even then, dudes claim they don't pay for p***y, Mexico is dangerous, you'll get STD's from women (even though they have health cards) and you can't drink the water...

Stay Sexless Dudes, you don't pay for p***y and American Women aren't f***ing you either... I've long given up on playing Good Samaritan, if you want to tell all the kiddies, if you feel the need, use your left/right hand, that's fine with me. It won't improve their confidence. That only comes from enough women accepting your advances, in otherwords, saying YES.

As I said and I think you keep missing it, P4P is NOT a long term solution. If you're lured in by easy sex, you're not strong enough to survive a relationship with woman under normal circumstances.

frontier wrote: You sound like some homosexual queer. There never was a "heyday" in Eastern Europe. You are just fag bastard. There hasn't been much changes in Eastern Europe. The fact that more women from the region continue to marry foreign men even in an economic depression proves nothing changed. Some nations joined the EU and that didn't save them all too well. And many men are lousy at home are legends on the road. It is the same in sports.

djfourmoney wrote:BTW I actually know some Gay Men and they don't say that. Way off base.

djfourmoney wrote:

frontier wrote: You sound like some homosexual queer. There never was a "heyday" in Eastern Europe. You are just fag bastard. There hasn't been much changes in Eastern Europe. The fact that more women from the region continue to marry foreign men even in an economic depression proves nothing changed. Some nations joined the EU and that didn't save them all too well. And many men are lousy at home are legends on the road. It is the same in sports.

Ummm there was a heyday in Eastern Europe for Western Men to go over and claim a wife (and prostitution) , its well documented. Name calling won't get you anywhere either, I have the facts on my side. Much change? Enough, what do you mean by "change"? You must be specific when claiming its still like the Soviet era when only the buildings and some romanticism with Communism remains with those over 40 usually.

We have crappy men here, what's your point? American Women are not beating a path to another country because nobody else wants them.

Rock wrote:

davewe wrote:

ladislav wrote:Abroad is a big place. 200 countries or so. In some countries it is easier, in some- it is harder. In poorer non Muslim countries there is prostitution- a convenient way to get laid for very little money. And there is a lot of it. Thailand tops the list, followed by Philippines, Costa Rica and Indonesia. Then you have legalized prostitution in certain Euro countries.
If you are young, handsome and tall and have money, you can also meet non-whores and get laid. For the rest of us, we just pay and play.

Having read your book I'm a little bit surprised by this comment. You appeared a bit more positive in your writings, rather than simply imply for most of us it's just pay and play.

Lad's writing tends to be very inspirational. IMO, its often overly optimistic - exaggerating the good side and downplaying the bad. Anyway, if you read between the lines, especially on this forum, you will find that he is happy to play the sugar daddy role.

Being a white American world traveler is not what it once was. Our dominant alpha role in the global media machine (music and movies) has been usurped by black guys and alpha females. The Internet has de-mystified us and our culture. US foreign policy and wars abroad has caused many all over the world to hate us. Our economy has faltered while many former poor countries have broken into the ranks of middle income. And the US dollar has lost a tremendous amount of spending power overseas - both due to intentional debasing by our monetary policy and the declining relative size of our economy vis-a-vis the rest of the world. Fifteen years ago, an average Joe American making the mean US wage was a rich man in China. Now he's kinda seen as a going nowhere joke, especially in the largest urban areas where expectations regarding future have shot through the roof.

One possible way to still live the happier abroad dream as a white guy is find a little corner of the world which is still undiscovered, cheap, and has plenty of attractive girls who are available to him at modest cost. Live there for extended periods but don't consider bringing any of the women back unless you fancy yourself as a high stakes gambler. And if you find such a place, be very careful about broadcasting to world of desperate men what a paradise you have found. Once a destination gains some traction as a hot spot for cheap and attractive women, the prices quickly go up and the quality of the women deteriorate faster than you can imagine.

Like it or not, today's world is full of unsatisfied first world westerner men, many young and decent looking, and many of who, with the help of an Internet connection, will seek out the remaining dating arbitrage locales and exploit them for all their worth.

One final tip. If you have the means, make and save a lot of money, as much as possible, to secure your future abroad. Invest it wisely and create sufficient and currency and inflation hedged passive income streams to support your remaining life in as much comfort and style as possible.

djfourmoney wrote: Stay Sexless Dudes, you don't pay for p***y and American Women aren't f***ing you either... I've long given up on playing Good Samaritan, if you want to tell all the kiddies, if you feel the need, use your left/right hand, that's fine with me. It won't improve their confidence. That only comes from enough women accepting your advances, in otherwords, saying YES.

As I said and I think you keep missing it, P4P is NOT a long term solution. If you're lured in by easy sex, you're not strong enough to survive a relationship with woman under normal circumstances.

NorthAmericanguy wrote:

djfourmoney wrote: Stay Sexless Dudes, you don't pay for p***y and American Women aren't f***ing you either... I've long given up on playing Good Samaritan, if you want to tell all the kiddies, if you feel the need, use your left/right hand, that's fine with me. It won't improve their confidence. That only comes from enough women accepting your advances, in otherwords, saying YES.

As I said and I think you keep missing it, P4P is NOT a long term solution. If you're lured in by easy sex, you're not strong enough to survive a relationship with woman under normal circumstances.

What? P4P is not a long term solution? Why isn't it if I don't want a long term relationship with a woman anyway.

And what do you mean about "not strong enough" to survive a relationship with a woman? This is something that a woman would say in order to make a man feel inadequate in his decision to seek sexual relief in prostitutes.

S_Parc wrote:

NorthAmericanguy wrote:

djfourmoney wrote: Stay Sexless Dudes, you don't pay for p***y and American Women aren't f***ing you either... I've long given up on playing Good Samaritan, if you want to tell all the kiddies, if you feel the need, use your left/right hand, that's fine with me. It won't improve their confidence. That only comes from enough women accepting your advances, in otherwords, saying YES.

As I said and I think you keep missing it, P4P is NOT a long term solution. If you're lured in by easy sex, you're not strong enough to survive a relationship with woman under normal circumstances.

What? P4P is not a long term solution? Why isn't it if I don't want a long term relationship with a woman anyway.

And what do you mean about "not strong enough" to survive a relationship with a woman? This is something that a woman would say in order to make a man feel inadequate in his decision to seek sexual relief in prostitutes.

IMHO, a real GFE with a top tier professional is better than a relationship, esp nowadays, as relationships have little to offer a man, long term.

If one's a believer in undying love or the Easter Bunny or whitewater rafting in Death Valley, well, that's a different story

However, if you believe in large families and want to resettle in let's say Brazil, with the idea that your life will involve lots of inlaws (& perhaps even some outlaws), then you're a different kind of person & hopefully, you've got your ducks lined up for that kind of experience.