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Amanda Knox - Is she guilty or innocent of murder abroad?

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Do you think Amanda Knox is innocent or guilty?

She is guilty!
7
78%
She is innocent.
2
22%
Undecided/Unsure
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Zambales » June 19th, 2017, 7:38 pm

I've watched a couple of documentaries about this unfortunate incident over the years and nothing illustrates to me that Knox is innocent. Another guilty verdict here!
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 19th, 2017, 8:27 pm

Wow publicduende. That's an incredible explanation. Where did you hear of it? I was wondering if it was a ritual murder too.

But how did they get amanda and raffaele to go through with it? They knew they would go to jail for a long time for it right? Maybe they were never in jail but just pretending to be?

If you have connections to raffaeles father then why dont you ask him about it?

And why would amanda agree to ruin her life and reputation like that? What was in it for her? She was a smart girl and honor student. Maybe they were not willing participants but were​ framed by the secret society that did it?

I heard about the monster of florence case too. Is it similar to the jack the ripper murders too? I heard that a freemasonic group was behind the jack the ripper murders and that winston churchills father was involved in that group, according to chris everard, a conspiracy filmmaker in the UK.

If an elite secret society is behind the perugia murder, then wouldn't they have control over the police and court judges too?
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Adama » June 19th, 2017, 11:10 pm

Winston, is a man's innocence or guilt determined by whether he looks like Harry Potter or MJ Fox? Are you basing conclusions on this? As far as I know, those two people are professional actors, which means they know role playing and how to convincingly lie, hardly admirable traits.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 20th, 2017, 10:39 am

My intellectual italian friend alex in angeles city, is one of the few italians who thinks amanda and raffaele are not guilty. Here are his texts last night where he explains what he thinks happened. What do you all think?


[6/20, 1:57 PM] Alex From Italy: it's very obvious and that's "basic psychology" that when interrogated a human being tends to say whatever he she thinks is useful to achieve two goals : have the interrogation ended, opposite the accusation.
[6/20, 1:58 PM] Alex From Italy: that two goals ARE SAME for both guilty and innocent subjects
[6/20, 2:00 PM] Alex From Italy: that means that innocent subject can choose to lie even if innocent under the pressure two achieve a faster end of interrogation and a better chance to break or weaken the accusations
[6/20, 2:02 PM] Alex From Italy: that's especially true when there's no trust on the operations of the justice system and in the persons who are handling the investigation
[6/20, 2:08 PM] Alex From Italy: being accused of murder, while convicted and while facing the chance to be wrongly sentenced guilty and have the whole life ruined, it's a HUGE psychological pressure ESPECIALLY FOR AN INNOCENT that of course feels the bitterness and injustice of even just being accused and that makes it likely to lose trust on the justice system and chose to cheat it and not cooperate if any chance.
[6/20, 2:09 PM] Alex From Italy: Mignini is a little man with BIG EGO and big pride
[6/20, 2:09 PM] Alex From Italy: he wanted to be praised by everyone as a "great" investigator
[6/20, 2:12 PM] Alex From Italy: He chose to seek the case of the monster wearing sheep's clothes (Amanda and Raffaele) rather than a usual case of a black guy that commit rape and murder
[6/20, 2:14 PM] Alex From Italy: especially the latter would have brought to Mignini a lot of negative pressure because the government oppose any news that may reinforce a negative perception of black Africans in Italy
[6/20, 2:18 PM] Alex From Italy: Moreover in Italy there's a lot of anti American sentiment that it's shared by maybe 30% of population. there's of course an bigot or moralistic despise of girls that easy seek for fun and sex (which is how Amanda has been portrayed)
[6/20, 2:21 PM] Alex From Italy: Mignini deliberately chose to go for the case that would have brought him under the spotlight of international media
[6/20, 2:22 PM] Alex From Italy: that wouldn't had happened if he firstly found Ruby and focused on him
[6/20, 2:25 PM] Alex From Italy: actually when he found out of Ruby he already invested so much of his work and reputation on accusing and trying to find evidence against Amanda and Raffaele that his pride prevented him to consider that he was WRONG since the begining
[6/20, 2:26 PM] Alex From Italy: he just chose to continue and put his best efforts to reinforce his initial accusation setup than to totally change direction of investigation
[6/20, 2:27 PM] Alex From Italy: that's "basic psychology" applied to the investigator
[6/20, 2:29 PM] Alex From Italy: because a REAL truth seeker (which isn't you) use his investigation "tools" on every subjects and matter not only on some that are cherry picked for the sake of own favorite outcome
[6/20, 2:35 PM] Alex From Italy: In Italy not only government but also mainstream media oppose any news that may reinforce a negative perception of black Africans in Italy. Italy mainstream media has hailed to Obama being elected president as much as they flood the air and papers with words of despise of George Bush before and Trump recently
[6/20, 2:38 PM] Alex From Italy: what Dershowiz called "evidence" are indeed just "clues". there aren't "evidence"
[6/20, 2:39 PM] Alex From Italy: and he didn't even mention one
[6/20, 2:40 PM] Alex From Italy: Ruby in a private communication to a friend said that Amanda wasn't involved in the murder
[6/20, 2:41 PM] Alex From Italy: I believe Dershowiz when he said that in USA Amanda would have been likely sentenced guilty
[6/20, 2:42 PM] Alex From Italy: that doesn't say anything about the truth of Amanda and Raffaele being the real murders
[6/20, 2:43 PM] Alex From Italy: that just say about how prone to commit wrong sentenced and convict innocents it's the American justice system
[6/20, 2:44 PM] Alex From Italy: I actually have very little trust on the Italian justice system
[6/20, 2:45 PM] Alex From Italy: I especially distrust investigators with big ego and pride seeking for spotlights (like Mignini)
[6/20, 2:48 PM] Alex From Italy: in Italy innocent people (or not proven guilty) are kept in prison by the prosecutors for years just waiting for the trial to come to a sentence that WILL TAKE YEARS!
[6/20, 2:50 PM] Alex From Italy: but I'm glad that in the end the court of the second grade as well as the supreme court agreed that there wasn't enough evidence to sentence guilty of murder both Amanda and Raffaele
[6/20, 2:51 PM] Alex From Italy: that doesn't mean that we can be sure they are innocent
[6/20, 2:51 PM] Alex From Italy: it means that WE CAN'T BE SURE THEY ARE GUILTY
[6/20, 2:52 PM] Alex From Italy: do you get the point?
[6/20, 2:53 PM] Alex From Italy: in our justice system the bottom rule it's that it's worse to convict an innocent than to let free a guilty
[6/20, 2:53 PM] Alex From Italy: and I agree with that
[6/20, 2:55 PM] Alex From Italy: a honest truth seeker also needs to know when to say "I don't know"
[6/20, 2:55 PM] Alex From Italy: to admit that there are truth that can't be achieved
[6/20, 2:56 PM] Alex From Italy: indeed "truth" it's something that rarely can be known by the limited mind of a human being
[6/20, 2:57 PM] Alex From Italy: and a truth seeker MUST be aware of it
[6/20, 3:00 PM] Alex From Italy: the Dreyfus affair was by it's nature very similar to the Amanda Knox case. it has become a justice case that resonated all over Europe
[6/20, 3:01 PM] Alex From Italy: not a murder case though... just a French army officer (wrongly) accused to be a spy for the German enemy
[6/20, 3:02 PM] Alex From Italy: Dreyfus was "evil" to the eyes of many due to a number of common prejudices like for Amanda
[6/20, 3:04 PM] Alex From Italy: Amanda was American, beautiful and like to have lot of sex
[6/20, 3:04 PM] Alex From Italy: that was enough to have many people look at her as an "American whore"
[6/20, 3:05 PM] Alex From Italy: and despise her on that basis, by prejudice and assumptions
[6/20, 3:06 PM] Alex From Italy: Dreyfus was a Jewish and was rich and had a beautiful rich wife
[6/20, 3:07 PM] Alex From Italy: and French people of those time (but still today even if less) were moved by a strong Catholic fueled anti Jews sentiment
[6/20, 3:09 PM] Alex From Italy: and also anti rich sentiment (as they actually did the revolution against the rich monarchy)... what today we would call social envy
[6/20, 3:09 PM] Alex From Italy: you should read AND LEARN from the Dreyfus affair
[6/20, 3:19 PM] Alex From Italy: and... read the Foucault's pendulum!
[6/20, 3:19 PM] Alex From Italy: you... "wanna be truth seeker"


My response:

I dont agree with u that if i was interrogated under pressure that i would start telling multiple lies and falsely accusing innocent people. I would never do that.

Maybe if i were crucified on the cross or in a medieval torture chamber, i may make a false confession. But not by just being in a room for 40 hours with no food and water. No way. And slaps are nothing. Anyone can take a slap on the face or neck. Come on man. That sounds like making excuses. Show me a real proven false confession in a room where they are being yelled at by police.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 20th, 2017, 1:25 pm

Very interesting.



Defense Attorney& Legal Analyst Richard Herman on King Jordan Radio talks about how he feels Amanda Knox is Guilty! Richard Herman can be seen Saturday's on CNN @ 12 noon est.

According to the prosecution, Knox’s first call of November 2, to Kercher’s English phone, was to ascertain if Kercher's phones had been found, Sollecito had tried to break in the bedroom door because after he and Knox locked it behind them, they realized they had left something that might incriminate them. Knox’s call to her mother in Seattle, a quarter of an hour before the discovery of the body, was said by prosecutors to show Knox was acting as if something serious might have happened before the point in time when an innocent person would have such concern.

Interesting comment on YouTube:

"Maria Birchwood

+RogerGT How many hands would Rudy have to have to be switching two different knives, whilst holding Meredith two shoulders? whilst sexually attacking her, gagging her and strangling and Meredith didn't offer ANY RESISTENCE ? despite being trained in Karate ? Only a FOOL wouldn't understand that Guede couldn't have done this alone this feat needed the aid of others and those others ALSO left their DNA all over the scene crime scene.    2.) you say "otherwise they would have incriminated their partners in crime" Not so. Knox even covered for Guede by NAMING AN INNOCENT BLACK MAN AS THE MURDERER. Different layers of courts of law have ruled that Guede DIDN'T ACT ALONE AND HE HAD ACCOMPLICES and everyone agrees that those accomplices were Knox and Sollecito.  3.) You are quite happy to accept ALL the forensic analysis which incriminate Rudy Guede but when it comes to Knox and Sollecito suddenly the samples are "contaminated" Well, you are wrong about that too. Since the blood of Meredith's on Sollecito's knife was NEVER CONTESTED even Carla Conti the Defence admitted in court that the sample was indeed Meredith Kercher's DNA and Sollecito even LIED in trying to justify Meredith's blood on HIS KNIFE.4.) THAT IS NOT TRUE. None of the other witnesses had this " state of confusion " these were questions that could have been answered by a 10 year old. The only ones who changed their alibies several times are Knox and her lover Sollecito NONE OF THE OTHERS REPORT HAVING HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE POLICE. NONE. Just these two."


Check this out. Ann Coulter on Fox news explains to Bill O'Reilly why Amanda Knox is guilty.

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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby gsjackson » June 20th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Winston wrote:My intellectual italian friend alex in angeles city, is one of the few italians who thinks amanda and raffaele are not guilty. Here are his texts last night where he explains what he thinks happened. What do you all think?


[6/20, 1:57 PM] Alex From Italy: it's very obvious and that's "basic psychology" that when interrogated a human being tends to say whatever he she thinks is useful to achieve two goals : have the interrogation ended, opposite the accusation.
[6/20, 1:58 PM] Alex From Italy: that two goals ARE SAME for both guilty and innocent subjects
[6/20, 2:00 PM] Alex From Italy: that means that innocent subject can choose to lie even if innocent under the pressure two achieve a faster end of interrogation and a better chance to break or weaken the accusations
[6/20, 2:02 PM] Alex From Italy: that's especially true when there's no trust on the operations of the justice system and in the persons who are handling the investigation
[6/20, 2:08 PM] Alex From Italy: being accused of murder, while convicted and while facing the chance to be wrongly sentenced guilty and have the whole life ruined, it's a HUGE psychological pressure ESPECIALLY FOR AN INNOCENT that of course feels the bitterness and injustice of even just being accused and that makes it likely to lose trust on the justice system and chose to cheat it and not cooperate if any chance.
[6/20, 2:09 PM] Alex From Italy: Mignini is a little man with BIG EGO and big pride
[6/20, 2:09 PM] Alex From Italy: he wanted to be praised by everyone as a "great" investigator
[6/20, 2:12 PM] Alex From Italy: He chose to seek the case of the monster wearing sheep's clothes (Amanda and Raffaele) rather than a usual case of a black guy that commit rape and murder
[6/20, 2:14 PM] Alex From Italy: especially the latter would have brought to Mignini a lot of negative pressure because the government oppose any news that may reinforce a negative perception of black Africans in Italy
[6/20, 2:18 PM] Alex From Italy: Moreover in Italy there's a lot of anti American sentiment that it's shared by maybe 30% of population. there's of course an bigot or moralistic despise of girls that easy seek for fun and sex (which is how Amanda has been portrayed)
[6/20, 2:21 PM] Alex From Italy: Mignini deliberately chose to go for the case that would have brought him under the spotlight of international media
[6/20, 2:22 PM] Alex From Italy: that wouldn't had happened if he firstly found Ruby and focused on him
[6/20, 2:25 PM] Alex From Italy: actually when he found out of Ruby he already invested so much of his work and reputation on accusing and trying to find evidence against Amanda and Raffaele that his pride prevented him to consider that he was WRONG since the begining
[6/20, 2:26 PM] Alex From Italy: he just chose to continue and put his best efforts to reinforce his initial accusation setup than to totally change direction of investigation
[6/20, 2:27 PM] Alex From Italy: that's "basic psychology" applied to the investigator
[6/20, 2:29 PM] Alex From Italy: because a REAL truth seeker (which isn't you) use his investigation "tools" on every subjects and matter not only on some that are cherry picked for the sake of own favorite outcome
[6/20, 2:35 PM] Alex From Italy: In Italy not only government but also mainstream media oppose any news that may reinforce a negative perception of black Africans in Italy. Italy mainstream media has hailed to Obama being elected president as much as they flood the air and papers with words of despise of George Bush before and Trump recently
[6/20, 2:38 PM] Alex From Italy: what Dershowiz called "evidence" are indeed just "clues". there aren't "evidence"
[6/20, 2:39 PM] Alex From Italy: and he didn't even mention one
[6/20, 2:40 PM] Alex From Italy: Ruby in a private communication to a friend said that Amanda wasn't involved in the murder
[6/20, 2:41 PM] Alex From Italy: I believe Dershowiz when he said that in USA Amanda would have been likely sentenced guilty
[6/20, 2:42 PM] Alex From Italy: that doesn't say anything about the truth of Amanda and Raffaele being the real murders
[6/20, 2:43 PM] Alex From Italy: that just say about how prone to commit wrong sentenced and convict innocents it's the American justice system
[6/20, 2:44 PM] Alex From Italy: I actually have very little trust on the Italian justice system
[6/20, 2:45 PM] Alex From Italy: I especially distrust investigators with big ego and pride seeking for spotlights (like Mignini)
[6/20, 2:48 PM] Alex From Italy: in Italy innocent people (or not proven guilty) are kept in prison by the prosecutors for years just waiting for the trial to come to a sentence that WILL TAKE YEARS!
[6/20, 2:50 PM] Alex From Italy: but I'm glad that in the end the court of the second grade as well as the supreme court agreed that there wasn't enough evidence to sentence guilty of murder both Amanda and Raffaele
[6/20, 2:51 PM] Alex From Italy: that doesn't mean that we can be sure they are innocent
[6/20, 2:51 PM] Alex From Italy: it means that WE CAN'T BE SURE THEY ARE GUILTY
[6/20, 2:52 PM] Alex From Italy: do you get the point?
[6/20, 2:53 PM] Alex From Italy: in our justice system the bottom rule it's that it's worse to convict an innocent than to let free a guilty
[6/20, 2:53 PM] Alex From Italy: and I agree with that
[6/20, 2:55 PM] Alex From Italy: a honest truth seeker also needs to know when to say "I don't know"
[6/20, 2:55 PM] Alex From Italy: to admit that there are truth that can't be achieved
[6/20, 2:56 PM] Alex From Italy: indeed "truth" it's something that rarely can be known by the limited mind of a human being
[6/20, 2:57 PM] Alex From Italy: and a truth seeker MUST be aware of it
[6/20, 3:00 PM] Alex From Italy: the Dreyfus affair was by it's nature very similar to the Amanda Knox case. it has become a justice case that resonated all over Europe
[6/20, 3:01 PM] Alex From Italy: not a murder case though... just a French army officer (wrongly) accused to be a spy for the German enemy
[6/20, 3:02 PM] Alex From Italy: Dreyfus was "evil" to the eyes of many due to a number of common prejudices like for Amanda
[6/20, 3:04 PM] Alex From Italy: Amanda was American, beautiful and like to have lot of sex
[6/20, 3:04 PM] Alex From Italy: that was enough to have many people look at her as an "American whore"
[6/20, 3:05 PM] Alex From Italy: and despise her on that basis, by prejudice and assumptions
[6/20, 3:06 PM] Alex From Italy: Dreyfus was a Jewish and was rich and had a beautiful rich wife
[6/20, 3:07 PM] Alex From Italy: and French people of those time (but still today even if less) were moved by a strong Catholic fueled anti Jews sentiment
[6/20, 3:09 PM] Alex From Italy: and also anti rich sentiment (as they actually did the revolution against the rich monarchy)... what today we would call social envy
[6/20, 3:09 PM] Alex From Italy: you should read AND LEARN from the Dreyfus affair
[6/20, 3:19 PM] Alex From Italy: and... read the Foucault's pendulum!
[6/20, 3:19 PM] Alex From Italy: you... "wanna be truth seeker"


My response:

I dont agree with u that if i was interrogated under pressure that i would start telling multiple lies and falsely accusing innocent people. I would never do that.

Maybe if i were crucified on the cross or in a medieval torture chamber, i may make a false confession. But not by just being in a room for 40 hours with no food and water. No way. And slaps are nothing. Anyone can take a slap on the face or neck. Come on man. That sounds like making excuses. Show me a real proven false confession in a room where they are being yelled at by police.


Winston, please don't repeat PR talking points -- 40-hour interrogation -- as if they were true. It took all of an hour and 15 minutes for Knox to direct the blame to Lumumba. She wasn't hit, she was offered tea, and she had recently eaten dinner. There was no -- repeat NO -- coercion, except in the lies of a chronic, pathological liar.

I think that your friend, like all Knox apologists, doesn't deal with the evidence in the case at all, except for a theory about one of her lies, which I agree is unpersuasive.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 20th, 2017, 3:31 pm

More comments from my italian friend alex about this case and why its unlikely for amanda to be guilty.


[6/20, 6:05 PM] Alex From Italy: anyway, given and granted the reasonable suspects on Amanda and Raffaele, the whole picture doesn't make any sense to me. Why Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy would have killed Meredith together?
[6/20, 6:05 PM] Alex From Italy: what's the common motive to make them commit the murder together?
[6/20, 6:07 PM] Alex From Italy: Amanda and Raffaele were happily f***ing together everyday
[6/20, 6:07 PM] Alex From Italy: what else they need to be happy?
[6/20, 6:08 PM] Alex From Italy: I could think about a motive for Rudy... maybe he was eager for having sex
[6/20, 9:53 PM] Winston: Im not saying im 100 percent sure amanda is guilty. Only that there is considerable evidence of her guilt.

I agree theres no real motive. So if she and raffaele committed the crime it means they were crazy, psycho or possessed.

But whats rudys motive? If he just wanted sex he could go to brothel for 30 dollars. Or to germany and get sex for 50 dollars.

Its not clear if rudy had a criminal record for burglary. Thats a contested fact. Even if he was a burglar it doesnt mean he was a murderer.
[6/20, 10:03 PM] Alex From Italy: well if it's that simple to satisfy sexual instincts then rapist wouldn't exists
[6/20, 10:04 PM] Alex From Italy: as you said Amanda and Raffaele should be crazy, psycho or possessed to have been part of the murder
[6/20, 10:05 PM] Alex From Italy: to me it doesn't seem they are anything near to any of that
[6/20, 10:07 PM] Alex From Italy: Amanda has probably a usage of her attitude that makes her prone to rebel to the authority
[6/20, 10:07 PM] Alex From Italy: Mignini mentioned it on the documentary
[6/20, 10:09 PM] Alex From Italy: for sure Mignini got pissed off of Amanda since the first interrogation and pushed him to show his iron fist to teach the spoiled brat American student who is in command there
[6/20, 10:09 PM] Alex From Italy: the language barrier has also play it's role
[6/20, 10:12 PM] Alex From Italy: Italians don't know how to properly speak English and Italian language has many meaning shades that for sure Amanda wasn't able to master especially at the begging
[6/20, 10:13 PM] Alex From Italy: remarkable it's the text that Amanda sent to Patrick the night of the murder
[6/20, 10:13 PM] Alex From Italy: she sent the text in Italian language but as a literal translation of English
[6/20, 10:32 PM] Alex From Italy: she wrote "Certo. Ci vediamo più tardi. Buona serata!" that literally, word for word, it's the Italian translation of English "Sure. We'll see each other later. Have a good evening!".
See you later it's a English way to say "see you next time" or "see you soon". But the Italian investigator got it as it's in Italian language where "ci vediamo dopo" it's USUALLY used to mean not an indeterminate time in the future but as a confirmation for an appointment, for meeting someone at a given later time (which has been agreed previously)
[6/20, 10:34 PM] Alex From Italy: I can see a big room for possible misunderstandings between Amanda and her interrogator
[6/20, 10:35 PM] Alex From Italy: which can have lead to great disappointments on irritation on the interrogator side and frustration and fears on the Amanda side
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 20th, 2017, 3:52 pm

Ok lets hear from the "Amanda is innocent" side now, to be fair. Here are some news clips where retired FBI agent Steve Moore explains why he believes Amanda Knox is 100 percent innocent. What do you all think? Is he convincing? I think he sounds very biased and one sided. He spins all the data to one side, to try to prove her innocence. He doesnt seem neutral or impartial at all. And he doesnt give the prosecution any consideration or fair shake.

He even got a few facts wrong, such as when he said Amanda recanted about falsely accusing her boss of the murder, which she did not. She let him sit in jail for two weeks until the police let him go when he had an airtight alibi. Moore also said that Amanda's DNA was on the knife at Raffaeles house because she cooked there. However Amanda herself did not claim to have cooked there, and in fact said she doesn't know how her DNA got on there. Theres even video of her saying that. Moore is merely speculating on her behalf, which indicates a bias.

Moore also said that Rudy Geude was a drifter with a burglary record, but in fact he had a stable home in Perugia for 15 years and no criminal record. It seems Moore believes everything the defense says even if its unverified and pure speculation, because he is on their side and heavily biased. He doesnt seem objective at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw5jq6uhX60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkQrIqmoUcQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LaAM7ufOWk
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 20th, 2017, 4:04 pm

gsjackson wrote:Winston, please don't repeat PR talking points -- 40-hour interrogation -- as if they were true. It took all of an hour and 15 minutes for Knox to direct the blame to Lumumba. She wasn't hit, she was offered tea, and she had recently eaten dinner. There was no -- repeat NO -- coercion, except in the lies of a chronic, pathological liar.

I think that your friend, like all Knox apologists, doesn't deal with the evidence in the case at all, except for a theory about one of her lies, which I agree is unpersuasive.


Here is Alex's response to that:

[6/20, 10:45 PM] Alex From Italy: LOL i find it laughable how people feels so sure of what happened during the interrogations like if they where there as eye witness
[6/20, 10:47 PM] Alex From Italy: and worse they can estimate the "normal" behaviour of ANYONE and assuming as if it was a matter of fact that NOONE innocent would behave differently
[6/20, 10:47 PM] Alex From Italy: so much ARROGANCE
[6/20, 10:48 PM] Alex From Italy: there's people who can't even bear to be badly scolded without freezing!!!!
[6/20, 10:48 PM] Alex From Italy: I can see it here everywhere
[6/20, 10:49 PM] Alex From Italy: people not used to confrontation
[6/20, 10:49 PM] Alex From Italy: not used to arguing
[6/20, 10:50 PM] Alex From Italy: people that would rather escape and bear any loss than to bear a face to face confrontation with an angry opponent
[6/20, 10:51 PM] Alex From Italy: even just a landlord that asks for not due payment
[6/20, 10:53 PM] Alex From Italy: going to jail, isolation, even for just few days, interrogations, it's a dramatic events that can easily cause break down to the persons who has less than strong mind set and personality
[6/20, 10:56 PM] Alex From Italy: Girls are easier to break down. Everyone knows it... girls are much more likely than guys to start crying
[6/20, 10:57 PM] Alex From Italy: and Amanda was just a young girl, eventually yes even a spoiled brat who never had to face anything tough experience in her life
[6/20, 10:58 PM] Alex From Italy: what would you expect from such a girl? to be strong and bear everything as if she was a 40yo male marine soldier?
[6/20, 10:59 PM] Alex From Italy: of course she broke down... OF COURSE AND IMMEDIATELY
[6/20, 10:59 PM] Alex From Italy: that's "basic psychology"
[6/20, 11:02 PM] Alex From Italy: I find absolutely understandable that she may have lied multiple times just in order to have the interrogation to end quicker and to have the investigation diverted. She didn't have any trust on the intention of the investigator to seek the truth and if I was her I wouldn't have any trust either
[6/20, 11:02 PM] Alex From Italy: I wouldn't have had *
[6/20, 11:05 PM] Alex From Italy: I know of too many cases of innocent people that have been sentenced guilty in Italy because of wrong investigations. Innocent people who had been recognized innocent and set free after they already spent years in jail and their life irreparable damaged

[6/20, 11:08 PM] Winston: How do u know amanda faced harsh interrogation? Theres no proof of that other than her claim alone.

[6/20, 11:09 PM] Alex From Italy: I think it's likely that happened. Italian investigator aren't a special kind of investigator that use velvets gloves and offers tea and smile patiently
[6/20, 11:10 PM] Alex From Italy: they likely seek for a quick confession and the break down of the accused
[6/20, 11:11 PM] Alex From Italy: and that's achieved with harsh manners
[6/20, 11:12 PM] Alex From Italy: being harsh it's part of the job

[6/20, 11:13 PM] Winston: But you are speculating right? U dont know for sure. Plus amanda is a proven liar on multiple counts.

[6/20, 11:13 PM] Alex From Italy: yes it's speculation
[6/20, 11:13 PM] Alex From Italy: it can't be known for sure
[6/20, 11:13 PM] Alex From Italy: but it's likely
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » June 20th, 2017, 4:14 pm

Mr S wrote:
Winston wrote:
Mr S wrote:There should be a 4th option in the poll called "who cares or gives a shit anymore"....


If you dont give a shit then dont post in this thread. Simple as that. But if you study this case, you find that it is indeed fascinating, entertaining and complex. Its like a brain teaser with many turns and twists. If you watch the BBC documentary above you will see that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erla7Ley4Tw

Plus its an unusual case because a nice white girl from a nice middle class family murdering another nice white girl from a nice middle class family is unusual and unheard of. Most murderers come from f***ed up families and have f***ed up childhoods. But amanda and the victim meredith had happy childhoods and good backgrounds. So this is a very unusual case.


You should still add a fourth option so you can see if there is really a majority that could care less about this thread. Not posting doesn't allow my point of view without posting here then getting ramrodded for posting a dissenting opinion about the whole matter.


But why do you give a shit whether anyone else gives a shit about this topic? Lol. Why dont you suggest that for other polls too? Its common sense that not all topics will interest all people and that people only browse topics they are interested in.

You and i have been ramrodded by others here for posting too much about conspiracies and metaphysical subjects and paranormal esoteric stuff too. When others complained about it, you rightfully told them that this is a free speech forum and that if they didnt like the topics then they dont have to participate in them. So why dont you apply the same standard here?

No one is forcing anyone to click on topics they dont like or have no interest in. You have full control of your mouse button.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby gsjackson » June 20th, 2017, 4:46 pm

Knox's lie in interrogation fingering Lumumba immediately after her boyfriend had lied about her is just one of many whoppers, most completely uncoerced.

She lied about when she first called her mother (at around 3:30 a.m. Seattle time, before there would have been anyone innocent thinking there might have been a problem). She lied about when she and Sollecito called the emergency number (it was after the postal police arrived, not before as she told the postal police). She lied about Kercher locking her door all the time (which was immediately contradicted by one of the other roommates). She lied about her relationship with Kercher (the other roommates said there was obvious tension centering around Knox's trashy behavior). None of these lies was coerced.

She and Sollecito are apparently back to the original story about sleeping in at his place, which is contradicted by phone records, computer records, and a witness who saw her at his store at 7:45 a.m. heading for the cleaning supplies. This witness correctly identified the clothes she was wearing, which were found on her bed.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby TheExpert » June 27th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Knox's lie in interrogation fingering Lumumba immediately after her boyfriend had lied about her is just one of many whoppers, most completely uncoerced.


It was the police who first named Lumumba - after they found an SMS on Knox' mobile phone and misinterpret the meaning of the message. They thought she met Lumumba on the night of murder because of a bad translated "See You" message. It is so obvious the police lied about the events during the interrogation. The statement was coerced. Read the Boninsegna motivation report. The court found as fact that the police account of the events during the interrogation is implausible and there is no reason to disbelieve Knox account.

She lied about when she first called her mother (at around 3:30 a.m. Seattle time, before there would have been anyone innocent thinking there might have been a problem).


She didn't lie, she just didn't remember have called her mother.

he lied about when she and Sollecito called the emergency number (it was after the postal police arrived, not before as she told the postal police).


Oh dear. This claim was already proved wrong during the Massei trial. The prosecution didn't bring it up in following trials. It was the time stamp on a footage camera that went 10 minutes early and let it look like the police arrived before the emergency call. But in fact the clock was wrong and the call was before the postal police arrived.

She lied about Kercher locking her door all the time (which was immediately contradicted by one of the other roommates).


How could Filomena (the other roommate) know that Meredith never locked her door? Filomena even admitted in court that Meredith closed her door occasionally (for example when she went to UK).

She lied about her relationship with Kercher (the other roommates said there was obvious tension centering around Knox's trashy behavior).


Conflicts about housekeeping is quite normal when you share a flat with others. This doesn't mean the relationship was bad. Did you ever read the SMS they sent each other the days before the murder? Did you ever read the witness statements regarding the relationship of these two.

PM Mignini: Listen, can you remember the things she said, what the relationship was between Meredith and Amanda?
Sophie Purton: I would say they had a good relationship but there were a few things that bothered Meredith, but I don’t believe they had many disagreements or arguments. Meredith just indicated some awkwardness she had with her.


a witness who saw her at his store at 7:45 a.m. heading for the cleaning supplies. This witness correctly identified the clothes she was wearing, which were found on her bed.


Lie. Police questioned the witness (Quintavalle) days after the murder. They showed him a photo of Knox and he said he didn't see her in the shop the morning after the murder. Only one year later he went to the police and told that he had seen her in the shop the morning after the murder. In court he said he can remember her one year later because of her blue eyes.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Winston » July 27th, 2017, 12:54 pm

TheExpert wrote:
Knox's lie in interrogation fingering Lumumba immediately after her boyfriend had lied about her is just one of many whoppers, most completely uncoerced.


It was the police who first named Lumumba - after they found an SMS on Knox' mobile phone and misinterpret the meaning of the message. They thought she met Lumumba on the night of murder because of a bad translated "See You" message. It is so obvious the police lied about the events during the interrogation. The statement was coerced. Read the Boninsegna motivation report. The court found as fact that the police account of the events during the interrogation is implausible and there is no reason to disbelieve Knox account.


Ok fair enough. So it was the police and Mignini that pushed the Lumumba issue due to that text. Fair enough. But why then after Lumumba was arrested, did Knox let him sit in jail for two weeks? Why didn't she recant and tell them he was innocent? Wasn't that a horrible thing to do? If you let an innocent man sit in jail, it means that it is to your advantage because it deflects blame away from you right?

I agree that the police interrogation could have been harsh. There is no recording of it, so we can't know. However, an American author named Doug Preston who came to Italy to write about the Monster of Florence murders also reported that Mignini was overly harsh and tried to coerce a false confession out of him. Preston seems like a down to earth sincere guy so I would take his word for it rather than only Amanda's.

Btw, are you part of Knox's PR campaign started by her parents? It's interesting that you signed up to this forum just to comment on this particular case and defend Knox.

he lied about when she and Sollecito called the emergency number (it was after the postal police arrived, not before as she told the postal police).


Oh dear. This claim was already proved wrong during the Massei trial. The prosecution didn't bring it up in following trials. It was the time stamp on a footage camera that went 10 minutes early and let it look like the police arrived before the emergency call. But in fact the clock was wrong and the call was before the postal police arrived.


Ok. I doubt that it matters though. Why would they lie about having called the police? A lie like that has no purpose and only damages your credibility later. But why did Amanda call Meredith's phone and only ring a few seconds, as if she knew that no one would pick up but just wanted it on record that she did try to call her? And why was Meredith's phone in the bushes?

She lied about Kercher locking her door all the time (which was immediately contradicted by one of the other roommates).


How could Filomena (the other roommate) know that Meredith never locked her door? Filomena even admitted in court that Meredith closed her door occasionally (for example when she went to UK).


This one is easy. Her roommates knew that she didn't usually lock her door because they were able to open it when she wasn't around. Like for example, if they were looking for her, they could open her door and see if she's there, and after a while realize that she usually left her door unlocked. Or Meredith could have told them that she usually left her door unlocked, if she trusted them. I'm sure you would know if a door in your house was locked or unlocked everyday, wouldn't you? After a while, you just know those things.

Btw, closing her door and locking it are different, and of course if you go abroad, then it's better to lock your door. But that doesn't mean she locks it every time she goes out. So again, why did Amanda lie about that? To delay the discovery of Meredith's body?

She lied about her relationship with Kercher (the other roommates said there was obvious tension centering around Knox's trashy behavior).


Conflicts about housekeeping is quite normal when you share a flat with others. This doesn't mean the relationship was bad. Did you ever read the SMS they sent each other the days before the murder? Did you ever read the witness statements regarding the relationship of these two.


Well this wasn't just about conflicts over housekeeping. The two didn't seem to get along or like each other much. They had little in common. And they were mostly acquaintances, not real friends. That's what their roommates testified. Why is that incorrect? If they were really friends, then why did they not take any pictures or selfies together like girls usually do? In fact, when Amanda filmed Meredith, Meredith did not even want to be filmed as though it were awkward to her. So she wasn't very comfortable around Amanda yet.

What SMS? Can I see it? Sometimes people are nice and polite in SMS but don't mean it. Fake politeness is a norm among westerners.

As far as I know, no witnesses claim that Amanda and Meredith were good friends. They were just roommates and acquaintances who didn't get along and had some personality conflicts. Did you read what Meredith's family and sister said? They can vouch for all this.

PM Mignini: Listen, can you remember the things she said, what the relationship was between Meredith and Amanda?
Sophie Purton: I would say they had a good relationship but there were a few things that bothered Meredith, but I don’t believe they had many disagreements or arguments. Meredith just indicated some awkwardness she had with her.


That doesn't mean they were good friends or close friends. Just that they tried to act amiable around each other to get along. It doesn't mean they liked each other much. They seem more like acquaintances. That's why Amanda did not grieve over Meredith's murder. They were acquaintances and she had no emotional investment in her.

a witness who saw her at his store at 7:45 a.m. heading for the cleaning supplies. This witness correctly identified the clothes she was wearing, which were found on her bed.


Lie. Police questioned the witness (Quintavalle) days after the murder. They showed him a photo of Knox and he said he didn't see her in the shop the morning after the murder. Only one year later he went to the police and told that he had seen her in the shop the morning after the murder. In court he said he can remember her one year later because of her blue eyes.


Why would that store owner lie about seeing Amanda that morning? Why would he falsely accuse her? Was he paid to do it? Wasn't there proof of bleach being used on the floor of Amanda's flat anyway?

Finally, if Amanda is innocent, then why did she change her story 4 or 5 times about where she was that night? Why did Raffaele change his story many times too about where Amanda and himself were that night? Innocent people don't do that. At one point, Raffaele even said he doesn't remember if Amanda was with him in his bed that night. Who fails to remember if his girlfriend was in his bed and room that night or not? lol
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby gsjackson » July 27th, 2017, 3:33 pm

Virtually everything theexpert has to say is contradicted by anything I can find online. To take some of the issues:

Kercher's problems with Knox hinged around not just Knox's untidiness but her slutty behavior. Keeping condoms and lubricant in the common bathroom was a sore spot. Knox, by all accounts, was on a hedonistic binge of drugs and sex, making her a very unstable personality. She probably perceived Kercher as judging her.

The interrogation in which she fingered Lumumba lasted about an hour and a half. No one else there, including the translator, testified to this coercion, so I really don't see how a court could have made a finding that only Knox's account was plausible. Where is the source of that? Knox claimed that she had been hit, but could not identify who hit her. No one has argued that the police didn't first introduce Lumumba's name into the conversation because of Knox's ambiguous text message to him. As soon as they did, Knox, who is clearly a pathological liar, immediately latched on to him like a life boat, making it all up as she went along.

The store owner didn't identify Knox until a year later??? Interesting how he could have identified the exact clothes she was wearing, which the police found on her bed. The bleach was found in Sollecito's apartment. His maid said she had not purchased it. The previous maid for the property originally said she had not purchased it either, but then after a "meeting" with Sollecito's lawyer changed her testimony.

American propaganda -- the Jewish art -- has devolved to the point of simply telling flagrant lies on the assumption that the vast majority of people won't bother to ascertain the facts. American life is shot through now with great big lies.
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Re: Amanda Knox - Is she innocent or guilty of murder abroad

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » July 27th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Whenever you have a murder without any credible witnesses, there will always linger questions.

In this case, Rudy Guede sits in prison for having his DNA, bloody footprints, and palm prints on the scene coupled with this multiple change of stories which indicates consciousness of guilt.

This reminds me of the OJ case. There was no credible witness to the murders so the court must evaluate the physical evidence. Some of it points to OJ, but there is nothing to refute that OJ did not have someone helping him.

Years later, cases like this are resolved in jailhouse confessions or when the accused confide in a trusted person who later go to the police.

Whatever the case, Knox hated Kercher, Kercher ended up dead, and Knox's behavior betray her story that she just does not know anything about the murder. Knox was a drug user and could have enlisted the dark forces around her to do it, or she could have done it herself under the influence. Whatever the case, she is a liar and DOES know what happened to Kercher even if she did not commit the crime herself.
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