Are more men discovering Ukraine messing up our chances?

[Mark Edward Davis]

Guys:

I just had that question posted to me in a PM, but I thought it was worthy of a discussion. This is what I answered . . .


That's a great question - and I hear it more and more, but it's a 2-part answer. The reason I say that is because there are two worlds that Western men encounter in Ukraine. One of them is saturated - the other is fairly untouched.

If you had a cousin that lived in Nikolaev and he wanted to introduce you to his world there and take you to a disco (nightclub) or shoot Russian billiards with his friends, you'd discover the real world where most of them live. It is a world that is surrounded by twice as many women as men. The women are all hot. They flirt. They have never been involved in "international online dating" in any form. It would be their dream to find a good Western man who would be faithful, fun, and family oriented. This is where the dream lives.

The other world is that of the "international online dating" industry and its agencies. In Ukraine there are reported to be around 20k women who have profiles online (although I believe there is a lot of duplication in that number). The population is over 40 million. Even among the single female dating population, 20k is a tiny fragment. BUT, those same 20k women are repeated hit on by ever Western wife-hunter. They are spoiled, not impressed by Westerners, and often opportunistic.

The real objective is to be introduced to women who are not overexposed to this industry. You will either want to go out with those who are brand new, know someone who can tell you which girls are sincere and untainted, or go with an introduction company that does not rely on that 20k group of women.

There are ways to succeed even in the midst of the most overwhelming social produced by the biggest company. I just did a Webinar interview with one such man who spent an hour with me preparing his strategies and he is now engaged. However, only 2 men from that tour of 25 came back with any kind of connection to a sincere woman.

I have a couple of videos you might want to watch. The first is an interview I did with a sailor in Ukraine who describes his dating life and what it's like for normal Ukrainian men and women.



Another one a Webinar we did answering the Top FAQ's for international dating:



Make sense?

[S_Parc]

Fellow, I really don't know.

The problem, I sense, with Russian/Ukrainian women in America is that, depending upon age of course, get imbibed in the Smith College, Femi-Nazi culture very quickly. Thus, I have very few examples of happily married USSR Female/American Males in my periphery. The couples which seem to stick together, appear to have similar Soviet backgrounds.

Part of the problem here is that many Russian women have science, engineering, and business educations. They're not the stupid, pretender Yankee types, who hang out at seven sister colleges and whine about being paid 70% of men, when it's obvious that when they hold an equivalent job, they get equivalent pay. (In other words, when the HR dept posts Engineer II getting paid $65K-$75K, it doesn't mean that the guy gets $77K while the female gets $63K. Of course, none of the journalists ever mentioned this fact).

Thus, Russian-American women tend to work hard and overachieve and thereby, want to have an overachieving husband around them. And given the current state of affairs, it brings back the whole issue of the pecking order of engineers < management consultants < bankers/traders, etc. So the net result is the Russian women end up pursuing the same investment banker or MD surgeon crowd as other American women, in the long run. And being white, educated, and attractive makes 'em a perfect catch for a seasoned Wall St trader.

[Dogboy86]

^ what he said...

[Dogboy86]

Another thing I have seen in the profiles on your site Mark is a large number of women that are looking for a man without a child no matter what the womans age is. I can understand a girl in her early twenties not wanting a man with a son but after they are twenty five to twenty eight that just seem a little unrealistic. I loved your book and enjoyed your writing. I am not sure if my financial situation would support your method of finding someone special.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

According to an associate of mine who lived and worked in Kyiv, there is a groundswell of misfit American men looking for young Ukrainian women there. Some of them are unemployed and destitute, some are retired yet homely.

This stigmatizes American men greatly and I feel that the point of saturation might be approaching.

I was on a plane flying via Kyiv and the plane was full of socially inept older men. That was all I needed to see.

Perhaps the smaller towns or Odessa would be better choices?

[zzzz]

However, only 2 men from that tour of 25 came back with any kind of connection to a sincere woman.

That is really horrible especially since most of these tours last a week or two and cost thousands of dollars. Most guys can probably only do them once a year. I'd never use a dating tour myself because they've never convinced me they have value. They are way too expensive, offer too little and charge extra for everything. Best strategy is find a nice city ignored by foreigners with 50k-300k people living in it and go rent an apartment there for a few months. You'll spend less, have to find your own way, meet people because you'll need help and be forced to learn the local culture which will be a big help in connecting with the girls there. I understand most people can't do that however so the tours are their only option.

Are women allowed to just stay in this 20k pool indefinitely? Probably like any dating database some are duplicates like you said, or not really that interested yet are retained to inflate numbers.

Listened to the show, learned a few things, like only 2 1/2 months on the fiancee visa.

[Mark Edward Davis]

Yes, yes, and yes. 1. The smaller cities are the best. 2. The 20k rotate out about 20% every year with new 18-year olds being added and others going out who are caught causing problems or just tired of the game. 3. Average incomes are sufficient, but you need to be able to afford the process. It will cost around $10k for the initial trip, visa work, and return trip.

Thanks for the nice comments on the book and video.

I would not worry about the 'kids or no kids' issue from the profiles. When two people meet in person, where all dating really begins, and they magically connect, they will then begin to decide what their life will look like together.

[Dogboy86]

Thanks for the responce Mark. I found your book very inspiring and motivational. I will need to save a bit more to be able to take part in one of your tours and have what it takes to follow through. I have talked to a ton of that 20% and there are some good girls there even if some are bad news.

[zzzz]

I actually listened to a few other programs you did Mark, they were quite good. I hope you are successful because you seem to have the right attitude. I still would do a trip on my own but if I was going to use a service yours would probably be the top of my list. The only real negative comment I have is your co-hosts usually aren't very good, but I thought Law Jackson was very communicative when you had him as a guest.

[have2fly]

I agree with everything posted! Kiev is oversaturated, many people told me that. Kiev is also more expensive with lots of rich people.

Pick a smaller city, like Odessa or Lviv and there you go. Zzzz offered the best option - rent an apartment and hang out in the country for a month! Best to do during spring/summer because fall/winter seasons are very muddy. In the summer all the girls wear mini-skirts and heels, "a picture is worth a thousand words"

Again, there are many gold-diggers, there are many bitches, there are just plain dumb stupid girls (nevermind education, degree does not give common sense). Also bringing them to the U.S. will cost money and is it worth all the trouble? I would say find one that owns her own apartment and tell her if we are in love, let's live in your apartment. Offer her to pay some bills or buy food etc. I would do such thing for sure. It is also a good test - if she is after you (not America), she is OK to live in Ukraine with YOU