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PUA Summit Scam Exposed

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Postby Banano » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:03 am

Yes they never mention 'environmental factors' which is very important and in their books/material they always promise 'hot beautiful women' to everyone who follow their instructions.

There are some good stuff in these book I have to admit but the problem is if you are not so good looking, no money and status, and environmental factors are not in your favour then you won’t benefit much.

It might help some handsome shy guy who never approaches women, it might give him confidence and he can be successful ; but it won’t be beneficial to people like Winston who approached many women in US and had no success.

PUA industry uses clever marketing techniques to promote and sell their material.
I’m in my office right now and looking at people around and I can tell you that 50% of the guys here have no hope with women, no matter what they read it will not get them any women, nothing consistent anyway. You have to have something going for you(looks, status charm etc) or you will be blown off before you get chance to say anything to her.
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Postby fox » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:15 pm

IntoTheWild wrote:
fox wrote:sites like this one remind people about 'environmental factors' and it's a good thing. Of course if you are weak and let women control you - you will most likely fail even if you go abroad. But if you have a healthy self esteem and a lot to offer- and the women in your area code don't see it, it probably means that the ratio sucks (for you).

Then you should consider changing location.



Yup I agree about environmental factors, sexual economics, and culture being a really big deal, that's why I'm here!

I disagree about the percentage though, I think environmental is much less than 80%, I'd put it at more 50/50.

I can see swinging too far in either direction with your mindset could hurt a lot more than it helps. I am 100% PUA in my mindset, but that's not going to stop me from moving to Asia to live there in a few months and visiting Thailand. My base will be in India, which REALLY sucks for sex, but hey, it's a quick flight to Thailand ;)


Unlike most guys on here though, I would NEVER, I repeat NEVER do the p4p thing, that's one of the PUA 'standards' I've adopted. f**k paying for sex! f**k paying a woman for ANYTHING! lol.


When I said to change location I didn't mean only move abroad :wink: . I meant that if for example, you live in
Ottawa\Canada:

go to Montreal or Calgary

I don't know how far Montreal or Calgary are from Ottawa because I'm not from Canada....but if it's far:
one should move from Ottawa to Montreal or Calgary, if that person wants choice with a lot of attractive women And he doesn't have an advantage in Ottawa (like he is not rich or super good looking....).

Of course he can still make it in Ottawa (to some degree) if he wants to put a lot of hard work. But why work hard for something that could be much easier?


I don't agree that environmental factors are only 50/50

Take Ukraine for example: more women than men, most men in the Ukrain are low quality: drink, don't have jobs.
girls in the Ukraine are smoking hot- loads of 9's and 10's.

if a guy lives in a small town in the USA (for example) and then goes to the
Ukraine: he can have much better success rates with far less effort- assuming he has a healthy self esteem, a nice job and he is not super ugly...
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Postby fox » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:21 pm

Banano wrote:Yes they never mention 'environmental factors' which is very important and in their books/material they always promise 'hot beautiful women' to everyone who follow their instructions.

There are some good stuff in these book I have to admit but the problem is if you are not so good looking, no money and status, and environmental factors are not in your favour then you won’t benefit much.

It might help some handsome shy guy who never approaches women, it might give him confidence and he can be successful ; but it won’t be beneficial to people like Winston who approached many women in US and had no success.

PUA industry uses clever marketing techniques to promote and sell their material.
I’m in my office right now and looking at people around and I can tell you that 50% of the guys here have no hope with women, no matter what they read it will not get them any women, nothing consistent anyway. You have to have something going for you(looks, status charm etc) or you will be blown off before you get chance to say anything to her.


There is a good reason why famous PUAs live in big cities like LA, NYC, London and etc...
if you put those PUAs in a small town with a bad ratio even those top PUAs would be much Less succesfull.
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Postby Banano » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:43 pm

'There is a good reason why famous PUAs live in big cities like LA, NYC, London and etc...
if you put those PUAs in a small town with a bad ratio even those top PUAs would be much Less succesfull.'


I heard that LA, NYC women are way too demanding and ones with the highest standards when it comes to selecting a man?
They are probably ones that are chasing high status guys with the above average looks
Then again these PUA gurus have some kind of celebrity status and they are much richer then most of us, they have better than average social skills and are great talkers/bs artists; for them these cities would be good hunting ground BUT how would ordinary guy do in these places?


In my view if you can pick up decent women on a regular basis in LA and NYC then you can pick up women pretty much anywhere in the world.
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Postby fox » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:01 pm

Banano wrote:'There is a good reason why famous PUAs live in big cities like LA, NYC, London and etc...
if you put those PUAs in a small town with a bad ratio even those top PUAs would be much Less succesfull.'


I heard that LA, NYC women are way too demanding and ones with the highest standards when it comes to selecting a man?
They are probably ones that are chasing high status guys with the above average looks
Then again these PUA gurus have some kind of celebrity status and they are much richer then most of us, they have better than average social skills and are great talkers/bs artists; for them these cities would be good hunting ground BUT how would ordinary guy do in these places?


In my view if you can pick up decent women on a regular basis in LA and NYC then you can pick up women pretty much anywhere in the world.


I think you should rea Cameron's article about top PUAs and their edge.
all of the top PUAs have some kind of edge: it could be very good looks, money, connections in some niche or great knowlage about social dynamics:

here is just a small piece:

• Mystery: Erik is 6’5 inches tall, (Yes, height is an edge.) That, in and of by itself is an edge. Yes, there are plenty of tall dorks who repel women but if you have the basics down, the height quickly becomes an edge. He is also a magician, a self proclaimed “Super-Star daredevil illusionist!â€￾ He plays the status game. A very tall individual who has always played the pseudo-celeb game.

• Neil Strauss: Neil does not have physical good looks or height to his advantage. So what’s his edge? He is a writer for Rolling Stone magazine, a Rock reporter for the NY Times, best selling author. (There is nothing wrong with being a reporter for a major magazine. If you have an edge, use it. Nothing wrong with that.) Lastly, he is highly skilled in manipulation tactics, uses his social status as leverage to make people feel below him.. (This will be explained later).


• Swinggcat - Another guy who is fun to hang out with; Also has a high level understanding of social dynamics, and has a good understanding of social-psychology which enables him to push people’s buttons well. He is well-read and articulate, and without going into too much details, he is able to work in sneaky angles as well. Also working in his favor is that he can be aggressive with women, willing to push the envelope. Also, well dressed, well groomed, and in good physical shape.


• Zan - Looks like a male model, charming, interesting person, has great stories of romance and fantasy. Zan is able to draw people into his reality and the way he see things. Fun and very pleasant to spend time with. If you’ve seen Zan speak, you can clearly see how he can draw people into his world and how he sees things in a very pleasant non-threatening way. Edge: Male-model looks, and charm as well as the ability to suck people into his fantasy world.

• Brent - Obvious edge: He looks like a professional male model. All he has to do is show up, chat with girls, be aloof. He is that good looking where he has to do almost nothing. He is not a relationship type of guy and he is not looking for a relationship type of woman. His edge and person match his perspective archetype. His obvious edge: Dude looks like a soap opera star and doesn’t give a shit about anything. Granted, this works well with a certain archetype of woman and that’s the kind Brent wants anyway.

• Johnny SoPorno: Interesting character and also different than the guys on the list as he self-admittedly likes women in the “Skin-Tradeâ€￾ or sex business, (Porn, Escorts, prostitutes, etc.) What’s his edge? Social dominances over his target demographic. He talks nonstop, no one can get a word in edgewise when he is around, and more importantly, he is involved with the porn industry. Being in the porn business, he can dangle a career upgrade to women in the selling-sex business, (Porn, prostitution, escorts, etc.) These are the type of women he desires and he can leverage his position in the industry to draw them in. (Remember, it’s important to know what archetype of woman you WANT!)......

• David DeAngelo: He is not the type of man to cold-approach women, yet I threw him in because he is vastly different that all of the aforementioned men (and he is a dating â€￾Guruâ€￾ after all). How is he different? He has zero fun factor and he has zero charisma. Yes, he may be one of the most boring humanoids on the planet to spend time with in person. However, being a decent looking man as well as a brilliant marketer who is worth tens of millions of dollars, owning a Ferrari and entire Apartment complexes and businesses goes a long way in bringing forgiveness to lack of personality. Edge: Smart dude, very successful entrepreneur worth 10s of millions of dollars, decent looking.


here is the full article:

http://attractwomenanywhere.com/blog/20 ... ge-do-you/

all famous seduction gurus have some kind of an edge that works with cetrain types of women .

I don't think the women Brent goes for are going to be my type of women And I sure don't want
Johnny SoPorno's girls :lol:

As for David D.- without his money and business connections I doubt women will give him a second look.
and Neil Strauss is always DHVing girls that he knows rock starts and famous people- and that he has connections. If he was just and avrage joe - women wouldn't waste time on him.


"You know Neil Strauss. He had a lot of powerful connections/networking value within the music industry. In fact come to think of it people were suprised he pulled Lisa Leveridge (HB8)-when in fact she was in a shitty band and probably needed a big break. So come to think of it he didn't need Game.

Also Lisa Leveridge's next boyfriend was Robbie Williams (mega UK popstar and former member of Take That) so she was continuing with the "music networking" boyfriends" (as another point Neil Strauss' current girlfriend is a pornstar. Whats the connection?
Answer- he wrote "How to Make Love like a pornstar" with Jemma Jameson. Again powerful connections in the porn industry!) "



you know PUA Adam Lyons in London, here is what a guy who knew him said:


Adam admitted he was an "un-official" club promoter. He claims he
had a Database of 3000 willing women.
However in the "party photos" I've seen on Flickr- Google "Project
Entourage" in Images and you'll see its the same 10 girls over and
over.
He also said that he doesn't lay that many girls for those who did
bother turning up.
I made the mistake of exposing http://www.projectentourage.com which has
since been taken down- as it was proof that "Social Circle" was
everything.



Now my point is that all seduction gurus have something: may it be money, great looks or some connections in a niche.

An avrage guy who is not super good looking, rich or has connections in some niche And wants to date a lot of beautiful women- Better go to a place where the ratio is in his favour....

Some PUA stuff could help but if the ratio is bad for you- you will often have to work very hard.
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Postby fox » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:00 pm

IntoTheWild wrote:Why not get every edge that you can. Status, looks, location, wealth, etc. add to that seduction knowledge, and you got a superman! ;)


yep this I agree with. And BTW Cameron is one of those teachers who I have respect for because he is down to earth and doesn't sell quick fixes which won't work.

that's why I brought up his name here
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Postby Sexter » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:55 am

I actually followed PUA for years, approached roughly 5,000+ women. Even joined my local "lair" and hung out with other PUAs.

here's the truth about it

The guys in the "lair" or other PUAs you meet are mostly nerds. Don't expect to meet anyone cool in the lair because majority of them are socially inept. The difference between the successful guys you see at bars/clubs and a PUA is that PUA's give off more of a nerdy vibe. Most of these guys don't get p***y at all, trust me on this. Most of their "field reports" are over exaggerated or bullshit and the best "PUA's" have ego problems.

when it comes to applying the material, it kinda helped me out. It got me to go out and approach women PERIOD. Given the option of approaching and not approaching, i would definitely approach. Same goes with knowing basic social interaction. Given the option of "knowing" PUA and not knowing it, i would preffer to know it because it gives you an edge.

THroughout the years of applying the material, i've started to see patterns that work. Here they are

1. confidence and your overall vibe (how you feel about yourself) when you approach a woman. This is probably the most important part. If you are feeling confident or happy, the girl will notice this and will be pleasant towards you.

2. knowing what to do. PUA really teaches you what to do in certain situations (how to open mixed groups of people, how to disarm cockblocks, how to lock yourself in so you can be part of the group. This is good knowledge because it would take a guy months of trial and error instead of actually reading about this

3. it gets you "going out" and actually approaching. Approach enough girls, you will increase your odds, approach no girls, you won't get chicks. SIMPLE AS THAT.

after 4 years of studying pickup, i've increased my lay count and met thousands of new people. Sure, i didn't get the success I wanted but at least i got something out of it. Just don't expect rock star results like the PUA companies claim because it's nto true at all.
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Postby Repatriate » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:06 am

Sexter wrote:I actually followed PUA for years, approached roughly 5,000+ women. Even joined my local "lair" and hung out with other PUAs.

here's the truth about it

The guys in the "lair" or other PUAs you meet are mostly nerds. Don't expect to meet anyone cool in the lair because majority of them are socially inept. The difference between the successful guys you see at bars/clubs and a PUA is that PUA's give off more of a nerdy vibe. Most of these guys don't get p***y at all, trust me on this. Most of their "field reports" are over exaggerated or bullshit and the best "PUA's" have ego problems.


I mostly agree with what you said here as I do think PUA at its most fundamental is basically just refining social interaction.

How come you never mention your controversial stint on casanova crew? You have a fairly infamous presence on the internet and you've been on a few podcasts.
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Postby Banano » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:25 am

Sexter

So you approached 3+ women a day over a period of 4 years?
How many have you laid out of 5000?
What is considered acceptable success rate among PUAs? 10%, 20% etc
We can agree that if for example you approach 5000 women and get laid only twice that would be bad fail,crap result...
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Postby fox » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:58 pm

Sexter,

I would also like to know what was the ratio where you did the PUA stuff. I don't live in a big city so for me to approach 5000 women would be a problem if I wanted to (not that I really want to..... :lol: )

Also most women in my city are avrage as far as looks- so the 6's & 7's act like Divas. But If I lived in a big city where most women are 9's (and the ratio between men and women was at least 50\50) - that would change everything....
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Postby Banano » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:35 am

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The facts

Postby Alexander Rose » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:31 pm

I personally have had great results "tapping on my body" as this guy so ineloquently says it.

Here is a Google search for tapping testimonials:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tapping+testimonials&oq=tapping+testimonials&aqs=chrome.0.57j62l3.3063&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I also can tell you that I have made a remarkable transformation and am now a LOT more attractive to all kinds of women than I was when I started out. Most of this is attributed to Vince Kelvin (the founder of the PUA Summit), Erika Awakening (the woman the guy is making fun of in the interview), and many others, including a medical doctor who goes by the name of Technoslaughter who actually has a TEDx talk on the subject, which can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt-ntBSUXbk

I'm not plugging their products or anything. These links simply provide factual information that proves the things perpetrated by the person in this interview are false and disconcerting.

Of course, there are scam artists out there but it's pretty easy to know who's for real and who's not. For one, you can see many videos of Vince kissing hundreds of women on his YouTube! channel. This cannot be faked. If you take the time to watch Technoslaughter's TEDx talk and learn the Photoreading technique he uses that he learned FROM A FEMALE CEO OF A DOMESTIC VIlOLENCE SHELTER, you will be able to easily read the photographs of so called 'gurus' and tell which ones are having success with women, and which ones aren't.

I will cite the photograph of Prince William and Kate shown in the TEDx talk. He said they most likely were having sex, and a weeks later their pregnancy was announced in the news.

These people want to help you, but the ones that DON'T have day jobs, CANNOT live unless they charge the prices they are charging. You have to give ample attention to students and you simply cannot have enough students at a bootcamp to cover your business expenses AND give them the attention they require AND pay your bills. It's. not. possible. Do the math.
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Postby fightforlove » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:36 pm

Banano wrote:'There is a good reason why famous PUAs live in big cities like LA, NYC, London and etc...
if you put those PUAs in a small town with a bad ratio even those top PUAs would be much Less succesfull.'


I heard that LA, NYC women are way too demanding and ones with the highest standards when it comes to selecting a man?
They are probably ones that are chasing high status guys with the above average looks
Then again these PUA gurus have some kind of celebrity status and they are much richer then most of us, they have better than average social skills and are great talkers/bs artists; for them these cities would be good hunting ground BUT how would ordinary guy do in these places?


In my view if you can pick up decent women on a regular basis in LA and NYC then you can pick up women pretty much anywhere in the world.


Around LA, it's simple economics: lots of attractive women + few unattractive women + lots of douchebag males = good dating odds for a decent male. I've heard that NY has 200,000 more females than males, so good odds there too. Are there materialistic Kardashian/Hilton types in LA? Sure. Are there Sex-in-the-City types in NY? Yes, but there are plenty of other women in these cities who do not fit these media glamorized images. They know that they have a lot of competition, and so you can find reasonably attractive women in these cities are also friendly and willing to talk to you. Plus, there's lots of hot immigrant/ethnic types in these cities.
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Re: PUA Summit Scam Exposed

Postby MJay1978 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:06 pm

fox wrote:The 5th annual "World Pua Summit" happened this year from 9/24 to 9/26. After it was over, on 9/27 one of the speakers was pissed off and wanted to dish some dirt about it....

even if you beleive in PUA stuff you would all agree that boot camps are a real waste of money.

The biggest secret about bootcamps: It's easy money and guys won't learn anything, how much can a person really change in one weekend?....


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SveuRCl31I[/youtube]


I can tell you from experience. This PUA stuff is a joke! The only material I kept are the Hypnocism by Eric Von Sydow and the Deep Inner Game and Body Language material from David De Angelo. The rest of the material is garbage! Pick-up linesl and pretending to be a person is not going to get you any women. It's the same difficulty level of picking them up as being a nice guy. ...Only worse! I just found out I no longer have an account on PUA forums anymore after I flamed on these guys. Good! :) I'm glad they wiped me out. I didn't want to be stuck on a thread with a bunch of d-bags anyways who are a lost cause to society. :D

http://www.puaforums.com/online-dating- ... nning.html
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Re: The facts

Postby fox » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:19 am

Alexander Rose wrote:I personally have had great results "tapping on my body" as this guy so ineloquently says it.

Here is a Google search for tapping testimonials:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tapping+testimonials&oq=tapping+testimonials&aqs=chrome.0.57j62l3.3063&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I also can tell you that I have made a remarkable transformation and am now a LOT more attractive to all kinds of women than I was when I started out. Most of this is attributed to Vince Kelvin (the founder of the PUA Summit), Erika Awakening (the woman the guy is making fun of in the interview), and many others, including a medical doctor who goes by the name of Technoslaughter who actually has a TEDx talk on the subject, which can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt-ntBSUXbk

I'm not plugging their products or anything. These links simply provide factual information that proves the things perpetrated by the person in this interview are false and disconcerting.

Of course, there are scam artists out there but it's pretty easy to know who's for real and who's not. For one, you can see many videos of Vince kissing hundreds of women on his YouTube! channel. This cannot be faked. If you take the time to watch Technoslaughter's TEDx talk and learn the Photoreading technique he uses that he learned FROM A FEMALE CEO OF A DOMESTIC VIlOLENCE SHELTER, you will be able to easily read the photographs of so called 'gurus' and tell which ones are having success with women, and which ones aren't.

I will cite the photograph of Prince William and Kate shown in the TEDx talk. He said they most likely were having sex, and a weeks later their pregnancy was announced in the news.

These people want to help you, but the ones that DON'T have day jobs, CANNOT live unless they charge the prices they are charging. You have to give ample attention to students and you simply cannot have enough students at a bootcamp to cover your business expenses AND give them the attention they require AND pay your bills. It's. not. possible. Do the math.


This is your first post (and so far) your only post on a forum that is Not about pick up.

Hi Vince Kelvin, Erika Awakening (or someone else who is working for them)
:lol:

go and troll someplace else please

:wink:
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