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Postby Winston » Tue May 07, 2013 10:58 am

fox wrote:
However, a salesman gets rejection every day but ends up making a good living.


not all salesmans are good salesman and not everyone can be a salesman (just like not everyone can be a PUA)


A man oversees getting sex because of his money really has nothing and will eventually end up in a state of intense suffering.


Yes pretty much


I don't think you can compare a salesman to a pick up artist. The former is professional and is talking to strangers for business reasons, which is considered normal and acceptable in America, and is expected too. But if you are trying to hit on chicks cold, that is considered creepy, immature and inappropriate. So selling stuff for business is far less awkward. Even if you went door to door selling Kirby vacuums, you would not take the rejections so personally and you would not feel like a creep. But if you hit on girls everyday, some are bound to be creeped out and even call security on you. (esp in the suburbs, because suburban girls are a lot more offended by pick ups than city girls are for some reason)

Out in public, you see people selling stuff ALL THE TIME. America is all about business. But you do not usually see guys hitting on girls. So you see, there is a very big difference. There's a difference between a "numbers game" that is considered appropriate and one that is considered inappropriate.

I don't agree with the last statement either. A man getting p4p from a nice prostitute or bar girl who treats him good and satisfies him, is better than nothing at all. Sure, a feeling of flatness or emptiness might come after the pleasure, but that's true with any type of pleasure in general. Even Buddhism will tell you that. Plus, anyone will tell you that having and losing is better than never having at all. At least the former makes you feel more alive.
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Postby fox » Wed May 08, 2013 2:31 am

Winston wrote:
fox wrote:
However, a salesman gets rejection every day but ends up making a good living.


not all salesmans are good salesman and not everyone can be a salesman (just like not everyone can be a PUA)


A man oversees getting sex because of his money really has nothing and will eventually end up in a state of intense suffering.


Yes pretty much


I don't think you can compare a salesman to a pick up artist. The former is professional and is talking to strangers for business reasons, which is considered normal and acceptable in America, and is expected too. But if you are trying to hit on chicks cold, that is considered creepy, immature and inappropriate. So selling stuff for business is far less awkward. Even if you went door to door selling Kirby vacuums, you would not take the rejections so personally and you would not feel like a creep. But if you hit on girls everyday, some are bound to be creeped out and even call security on you. (esp in the suburbs, because suburban girls are a lot more offended by pick ups than city girls are for some reason)

Out in public, you see people selling stuff ALL THE TIME. America is all about business. But you do not usually see guys hitting on girls. So you see, there is a very big difference. There's a difference between a "numbers game" that is considered appropriate and one that is considered inappropriate.

I don't agree with the last statement either. A man getting p4p from a nice hoe or bar girl who treats him good and satisfies him, is better than nothing at all. Sure, a feeling of flatness or emptiness might come after the pleasure, but that's true with any type of pleasure in general. Even Buddhism will tell you that. Plus, anyone will tell you that having and losing is better than never having at all. At least the former makes you feel more alive.


For some strange reason you can't talk to women in America, it's like most of them are so paranoid. Maybe TV brainwashed them that every guy who tries to make small talk is a serial killer or something.

The only place it is acceptable to make small talk with women in order to try and get a romantic relationship or casual sex is in bars or clubs- but even in those places women act like Divas and reject you most of the time (sometimes very bluntly)
or
through friends\social circles. But if you don't already have social circles: it's hard to get into new social circles that have single women in them.

And also you have speed dating- but that's a big fail most of the time...
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Postby Christianfilipinacom » Wed May 08, 2013 11:48 pm

Of course sales is a lot like meeting women or men. You succeed if you have connections, confidence, don't "need" the sale, have a good product, are a nice person, etc. Of course it's possible some PUA could have what it takes to sell their song and dance to men without actually having the ability to do the same with women. Although there are some bizarre things about the PUA movement, one good thing is that it gets the men to focus on what they want. It's not a sin to be clear about what you want.
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Postby fox » Thu May 09, 2013 12:32 am

Christianfilipinacom wrote:Of course sales is a lot like meeting women or men. You succeed if you have connections, confidence, don't "need" the sale, have a good product, are a nice person, etc. Of course it's possible some PUA could have what it takes to sell their song and dance to men without actually having the ability to do the same with women. Although there are some bizarre things about the PUA movement, one good thing is that it gets the men to focus on what they want. It's not a sin to be clear about what you want.


problem is... that a lot of western women have unrealistic expectations.

If we compare it to sales: let's say you want a quality mobile phone that can do many things and has many applications:
then you know you would have to pay more $$ for it than a regular mobile phone that is less quality and has less applications.

Now when it comes to women\ dating:

So many women expect you to chase them, pay for them, give them everything and don't think they need to give anything back other than sex (and I don't see 'sex' as them giving something to you- they enjoy it just as much if not more...)

so with the sales analogy:

They want a good quality product (a good man who is also good looking, has means, treats them well and etc...) but they
also want it cheap (ain't willing to give anything in return).

I use Man\product just as an analogy of course.

Also I see many deluded women who don't have much to offer as far as looks, intelligence, means who reject guys left and right thinking that one day a rich handsome man with means will choose them.

It always makes me: :lol: :lol:

BTW
I don't think the PUA movement gets the men to focus on what they want- Men know what they want.
it's how to get it - is the hard part.

Yea some PUA teachers have good things to teach so it's not all bad however, there is a huge gap in what they promise vs. the results you can get.

there are a few decent teachers out there who aren't selling you unrealistic expectations- but most of the PUA marketing is selling false hope such as: you can get women like a rock star no matter how you look like, your money situation or your social status if you just follow the 4 step system.
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Postby Winston » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:32 pm

Check out this video by MJay1978 (a member of our forum) called "The Downfall of Pick Up Artists":

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3bDyQXWUg[/youtube]
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby rudder » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:38 am

MrPeabody wrote:
fox wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:That was me. Meditation is a mind technique which is over 2000 years old and is way more advanced than NLP (on which speed seduction was based) and which many people can't get to work. With NLP, you manipulate the pictures and thoughts in your mind to control your state of mind, whereas meditation is natural, you do nothing, and naturally detach from the world and its aggravations. With NLP, you manipulate, with meditation, you practice being in a state of presence. With NLP you struggle for results; with meditation you detach yourself and your emotions from results (which actually makes them more likely to occur). Speed seduction is highly verbal because its creator was a verbal person and hence it was a good fit for him. The truth is that most of what you communicate is non verbal. If you have a stable mind which transmits into your body language as strong and tranquil, you will be able to be yourself and say normal things, and a woman will be attracted. Many guys spin their wheels because they have a weak presence and say all these silly things taught to them by their gurus, which makes them look even weaker. They don't realize that their body language is communicating a different message than their words. I also did some search on the Internet and found a blurb that Jeffries actually recently took a meditation course, from the very same meditation teacher I went to over a decade ago, in order to learn techniques for working with emotions.


yes Ross learned meditation from Shinzen Young and he even made up a few Inner Game technicks based on what he learned from Shinzen Young (after adding a few NLP elements into them), but he does give Shinzen credit for that and admits that he didn't invent the technicks (only added a few NLP elements into them).

so what kind of meditation do you do?
Vipassana, Zen, Tibetian?

did you ever try using NLP technicks on women?


I practice Vipassana. Shinzen is a Vipassana teacher, even though I believe that he was actually ordained as a monk in a Vajrayana Japanese sect. I also do the 10 day retreats with Goenka's Vipassana technique. I don't use NLP. Meditation is such a different philosophy, I wouldn't attribute anything created by Jeffries to Shinzen.


I went on one of those Goenka retreats once. I only lasted a day. I couldn't stand it. Physically I found it way too painful to just sit on my ass all day without moving a muscle. Props to you for being able to pull it off though.

Also, I've done regular meditation for half a year every day for half hour a day, and don't think I noticed any significant difference on my happiness. I'm at a point in my life where external nuisances affect me less, but I think that's just because I'm more mature. The same goes for how I used to be painfully shy and have bad social anxiety as a teenager, but now I'm not like that. It's just because I added a few more years to my life, not because I did some "exercizes" or got on medications or anything like that.
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