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Well, Just came back from Ukraine. Probably not going back.

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Well, Just came back from Ukraine. Probably not going back.

Postby DarthXedonias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:40 pm

Hey guys! I think this is my first post here so I will introduce myself first. I'm a 23 old, Mixed (Native American/African American) guy originally from San Francisco, CA. I'm in the U.S. Navy right now (mostly because I couldn't find a job and can't wait to get out >_>). Hoping to get my Bachelors and Masters in information Technology before I get out though, which will be nice. I might get my ESL cert as well. Anyway, I'm writing from the Boryspil airport, in Kiev, Ukraine about to return home. I have to say, after my experience, I think I won't be coming back to Ukraine to look for wife Material. What some have posted before about Russian/Ukrainian women being materialistic seems pretty true in my opinion. Mind you I didn't just stay in Kiev. I traveled to Lugansk and Kherson. It just seems like Ukraine is starting to become "Westernized" (attitude wise anyway) and doesn't seem like as good a place for look for wife material anymore. It just seems like they are turning into a very consumerist driven culture now. Seems like all the women want to buy the latest boots or what not. Either way, I'm planning what my next step is and I'm thinking of 2 options at the moment: The Philippines or Central Asia (either Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, or Kyrgyzstan). I'm leaning more towards Central Asia right now because : (1) I like the idea of a Russian looking woman but with a Asian mentality, (2) I had read some of the posts on here about central asia and many of you said it was a great place to find wife material, and (3) It would seem to be more interesting given that these places are along a more less beaten path. I would be glad to accept any advice or insight you guys could give.

P.S. Awesome forum by the way.
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Postby jamesbond » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:55 pm

Hey DarthXedonias, were you able to date any women in Ukraine? Supposedly, it's easy to meet girls there in public places like bookstores and grocery stores. Did you meet any women that way? Did you use any dating services in Ukraine?
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

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Postby DarthXedonias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:29 pm

Thanks for the reply james.

I didn't meet any women the regular way but I did use agency services. I met 2 girls (or I should say one anyway). One was in Lugansk, who I thought was pretty decent at first but It seemed like she was as serious as I thought she was even though she was very decent to talk to. I think she had ulterior motives to be honest. I noticed whenever she told me certain things there were contradictions in her stories (always a bad sign). The 2nd girl, in kherson, didn't even show up to the meeting and then sent a email giving some lame excuse (that she caught the flu and would be out for days). I think it was partly my mistake though because I used Anastasia date (I know, first bad decision). I did this because I had recently took a break from the concentrating on foreign women thing for a while. Before I went on Hiatus as you could call it, I had heard complaints about Anastasia but heard they were "ok" as long as you did you best to avoid the scammers. Hence that's why I choose to deal with them after I got a steady income and was able to go down this road. I was surprised to find out later, after noticing the problems with the 2 girls, that Anastasia had gotten even worse since I had been gone from the international dating scene.

Honestly, I think the girl from Lugansk was working for the agency, and I think the girl from kherson was really just some agency translator who initiated contact and couldn't find the real girl to meet me after I said I was coming to Ukraine. I think I probably should have also went to see more than 2 girls as well to better my chances. I just didn't know that the agency business in Ukraine has become so profitable that agencies will hire women write and go on dates with men from my understanding of how it works now. Knowing this now, I could go back more informed and with more potential dates lined up but it seems like it would be too much of a effort in ukraine these days. Not to mention Ukraine has gotten a lot more expensive then it use to (and I expect it will up even more with the dollar losing value now). Also, I feel like I wasn't welcomed at times in Ukraine, especially in Kherson.

So, I think I will choose somewhere with less foreigners and maybe even more high value women. I became even more curious about pursuing Central Asia Lad and have2fly's comments about the quality of women there.
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Postby green1976 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:20 pm

Doesn't surprise me at all the bad vibes there.
In my opinion,a number of males wanting to escape from AW are overrating the Ukrainian or Russian style option.

Possibly,things were better some 20 years ago but now the party is over.

Women there are more and more westernized..they have been courted by plenty of wife seeker from the West,they have been engaged in high paid prostitution job..so they clearly know that their value is huge on the dating market.

I never believed in the Russian or Ukrainian kind of solution.

The options to avoid the dating feminist hell are not so varied.
SEA is one,and i get to know by myself.
Latin America maybe too..even if it depends on the country.

Anyway,for those who prefer a white woman outside AW who is not contaminated by female supremacy,i sincerely think that the damage is too profound to be reversed.

Guys here on this board,who put a lot of expectation in Ukraine,Russian women and so on,must really be careful in what they are doing and how.

As for me..it's a mirage..not worth to take the try.
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Postby ssjparris » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:46 pm

Just sent you a PM mr. DarthXedonias about this post.

i will definitely make the leap and experience ukraine for myself. everyones experience is different. but your experience i will take to heart as many others have said the same things about ukraine. again, i will still visit to see for myself

in other news.

try the outlying countries next to ukraine. such as poland, hungary, slovakia, maldova, serbia, bulgaria ( last two i have such wonderful experiences with the women there through the internet ofcourse) the women are ALL just as beautiful. though i definitely prefer the ukrainian look over all the others.

I usually get friend requests from ukrainians actually at livemocha.com pretty ones and funny looking ones too. :lol:

but i am straight black. so maybe this is a factor involved i do not know. like i said everyones experience is different.

i LOVE japan because the japanese like me. especially the girls. they love black american guys. but if your asian and you go to japan. they will ALL ignore you.

that was just an example. so Hopefully i will have a good time there in the ukraine or not.

i also heard bad stuff about dating sites in ukraine and russia.

the girls actually WORK for the sites and date the men. that is some f***ed up shit. :evil:
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Postby DarthXedonias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:28 pm

Thought I would write more in detail so any of you other guys interested in Ukraine might get some insight then see if you still want to give the place a shot or not.

In general, I would agree with what green said. Maybe 20 years ago or so Ukraine might have been still a good place foreigners but now not so. It might still be good for someone like have2fly who knows the language and culture but not for the average foreigner there looking for a wife. These women are very aware of their beauty and that foreigner find them attractive. Therefore, the Agencies use them to their advantage to make money. I know some guys from another forum who actually know women who have worked for these agencies. Basically they will write letters to you online (to make you buy account credits to talk to them) or have them date you to make you spend more money on the agency (via agency interpreter or taxi driver). The lady herself gets a cut in this whole thing.

If that doesn't prove materialism enough, there are other signs I saw as well. While I was in Kherson (which is a cross between a crappy suburb and a country town) I was surprised by the sheer amount of clothing, jewelry, and shoes stores on almost each block. As I was walking around I felt like I was sensing the same American consumerist mind set and this was in a small town in the country! Also, some of there shows and movies are starting to have the same themes as the American media back home that makes American women feel so entitled. For example, on the long bus ride back to Kiev to catch my flight back home we watched a 6 part Soap opera type movie that apparently is popular in Kiev. All I can say is that if this is what is Popular with women in Ukrainian, I would say they are well on their way to being westernized (not that many of them haven't already). There is still hope to find some wife material in Ukraine but its "a lot" harder not then it was before from my personal observations. Definitely stay away from the agency route though.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention too. Its not just Americans who are in Ukraine now. Believe it or not there is a sizable Nigerian population, along with a small Asian population in Ukraine now. They are there mostly for attending Universities in Ukraine. I actually became friends with a Nigerian guy who helped me buy my train ticket to Lugansk :D
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Postby zboy1 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:48 pm

DarthXedonias wrote:Thought I would write more in detail so any of you other guys interested in Ukraine might get some insight then see if you still want to give the place a shot or not.

In general, I would agree with what green said. Maybe 20 years ago or so Ukraine might have been still a good place foreigners but now not so. It might still be good for someone like have2fly who knows the language and culture but not for the average foreigner there looking for a wife. These women are very aware of their beauty and that foreigner find them attractive. Therefore, the Agencies use them to their advantage to make money. I know some guys from another forum who actually know women who have worked for these agencies. Basically they will write letters to you online (to make you buy account credits to talk to them) or have them date you to make you spend more money on the agency (via agency interpreter or taxi driver). The lady herself gets a cut in this whole thing.

If that doesn't prove materialism enough, there are other signs I saw as well. While I was in Kherson (which is a cross between a crappy suburb and a country town) I was surprised by the sheer amount of clothing, jewelry, and shoes stores on almost each block. As I was walking around I felt like I was sensing the same American consumerist mind set and this was in a small town in the country! Also, some of there shows and movies are starting to have the same themes as the American media back home that makes American women feel so entitled. For example, on the long bus ride back to Kiev to catch my flight back home we watched a 6 part Soap opera type movie that apparently is popular in Kiev. All I can say is that if this is what is Popular with women in Ukrainian, I would say they are well on their way to being westernized (not that many of them haven't already). There is still hope to find some wife material in Ukraine but its "a lot" harder not then it was before from my personal observations. Definitely stay away from the agency route though.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention too. Its not just Americans who are in Ukraine now. Believe it or not there is a sizable Nigerian population, along with a small Asian population in Ukraine now. They are there mostly for attending Universities in Ukraine. I actually became friends with a Nigerian guy who helped me buy my train ticket to Lugansk :D


Sigh, just another example of the poisonous effect that American culture has on another country. I'm afraid 20 to 30 years from now, all but the most remote of countries will have adopted the American mindset!
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Postby djfourmoney » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:42 am

All I can say is never restrict your search. I know guys that have married woman from Uzbekistan, Belarus and Moldova.

Yes this has been talked about elsewhere on the internet. Accepted agencies to use are:

None at all total DIY or Use reputable agencies. I have found women and talked to women on Lucky Lovers and Elena's Models. Both sites are heavy DIY (you do all the planning, logistics and paperwork).

But its possible not to find materialist women. Sorry but there's no country safe from that sort of thing and really has nothing to do with American Influence, it usually European Influence. I would say that's closer to the truth. European women love fashion and accessories from expensive brand like Chanel and D&G. They also like expensive cars from Germany companies (Benz, Audi, BMW).

The suggestion is to go to less traveled and less cosmopolitan countries. You suggested Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, or Kyrgyzstan and those are all very good, less traveled areas to find a nice girl in.

Most agencies that companies deal with don't screen the woman and Anastasia is one of the WORST, its documented.

You can chalk this up as a learning experience and it is a learning experience.

Again this fear mongering is ridiculous, in 20 or 30 years the entire structure of the world economy will have changed, I wouldn't concern yourself with what will happen in 20-30 years, the planet itself with dictate much of that.
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Postby ladislav » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:09 am

The OP is right. If you are an average foreigner on a trip there, you'd better be introduced by foreignaffair.com social parties or by European Connections. Because as far as meeting ladies in their natural environment, one just doesn't have the language skills and most people do not speak English there.
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Postby have2fly » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:11 am

Why why why did you go to meet just 2 women? That is ridiculous! And how can you judge a whole country based on experience with some "hired dates" from a dating agency? Come on! You gotta be smarter than that! First of all, use other web sites. I had a pretty good luck with Winston's dating.happierabroad.com
Those girls actually are real, I've talked to dozens of them and most of them are definitely legit! They discuss things and aren't asking me for any money.

Another thing - Ukraine was consumerist when I was leaving it. You have to understand people's values and struggles. Basically life is tough and people do their best to look good and have a good time. In Ukraine, like in many other countries, opinion of others is important exactly because everyone is in the open - walking down the street, talk to each other etc. So you have to look fashionable to stand out which I actually like! Why would I choose a woman who is wearing pajamas and slippers everyday?

Fashionable clothes those women wear aren't always expensive, there are lots of "fake Chinese imports" that look like brand-name clothes. Also most of those girls spend all their money on clothes just because it is important in their culture, just like Americans spend so much money on buying a new pickup truck.

Ukraine isn't Asia and hasn't ever been Asia. When you are a foreigner who is going there for a first time - you are a great catch for gold-diggers who just want to use you to have a good time. There are still many decent women available, I know that for sure. As I stated, you have to go to smaller cities and you have to choose wisely which does not come easy. Not every girl is going to jump on you and do everything for you just because you are an American.

Besides, why not take a girl to a decent restaurant? Average prices in Kiev are pretty similar to those in any similar sized American city.

If I would go to Ukraine, I would have a list of many girls to meet. I would also ask them to take their female friends with us to go party up. I would be planning on spending at least 2 weeks there or 3.

Going to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan is definitely a better option, those countries are a bit cheaper and not as exposed to Americans for sure. But that could change too as this forum is read by hundreds of people that don't register and don't write here.
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Postby odbo » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:31 am

have2fly wrote:Another thing - Ukraine was consumerist when I was leaving it. You have to understand people's values and struggles.

It makes me cringe every time I see an American using the adjective "Western" as if it's a bad thing. It also makes you sound very stupid because:

a) You're repeating Jewish linguistic programming
b) Ukraine and other former Soviet states are some of the least "Western" nations in the world despite also being largely Christian and "white."

The word you're looking for is materialistic, consumerist, shallow, or better yet open up a thesaurus and expand your vocabulary.. The values of a culture have nothing to do with being in Europe or being Americanized or being modernized. There's no end to a Chinese or Indian woman's greed. Is she western? A Japanese woman on average is far less focused on money but far more western.

And since when the f**k is America western? You can't compare USA to Europe. They have nothing, absolutely nothing in common. Mexico has more in common with Europe than the US does.
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Re: Well, Just came back from Ukraine. Probably not going ba

Postby E_Irizarry » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:19 pm

DarthXedonias wrote:Hey guys! I think this is my first post here so I will introduce myself first. I'm a 23 old, Mixed (Native American/African American) guy originally from San Francisco, CA. I'm in the U.S. Navy right now (mostly because I couldn't find a job and can't wait to get out >_>). Hoping to get my Bachelors and Masters in information Technology before I get out though, which will be nice. I might get my ESL cert as well. Anyway, I'm writing from the Boryspil airport, in Kiev, Ukraine about to return home. I have to say, after my experience, I think I won't be coming back to Ukraine to look for wife Material. What some have posted before about Russian/Ukrainian women being materialistic seems pretty true in my opinion. Mind you I didn't just stay in Kiev. I traveled to Lugansk and Kherson. It just seems like Ukraine is starting to become "Westernized" (attitude wise anyway) and doesn't seem like as good a place for look for wife material anymore. It just seems like they are turning into a very consumerist driven culture now. Seems like all the women want to buy the latest boots or what not. Either way, I'm planning what my next step is and I'm thinking of 2 options at the moment: The Philippines or Central Asia (either Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, or Kyrgyzstan). I'm leaning more towards Central Asia right now because : (1) I like the idea of a Russian looking woman but with a Asian mentality, (2) I had read some of the posts on here about central asia and many of you said it was a great place to find wife material, and (3) It would seem to be more interesting given that these places are along a more less beaten path. I would be glad to accept any advice or insight you guys could give.

P.S. Awesome forum by the way.


This was an awesome post. You seem like you have a good, humble attitude. But check out the bold that I have bolded: as a Black man, you better follow through and cop those that ESL and IT certs and/or IT degrees and some experience if possible. The world would become your oyster if you do that.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

TanBoy by DNA | Despedido, Hugo Chavez...Descansa en paz!
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Postby E_Irizarry » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:19 pm

I wonder if anybody here can tell me how much more westernized did the Ukraine become ever since Americans don't require visas to come to the Ukraine anymore????
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

TanBoy by DNA | Despedido, Hugo Chavez...Descansa en paz!
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Postby E_Irizarry » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:24 pm

have2fly wrote:Why why why did you go to meet just 2 women? That is ridiculous! And how can you judge a whole country based on experience with some "hired dates" from a dating agency? Come on! You gotta be smarter than that! First of all, use other web sites. I had a pretty good luck with Winston's dating.happierabroad.com
Those girls actually are real, I've talked to dozens of them and most of them are definitely legit! They discuss things and aren't asking me for any money.

Another thing - Ukraine was consumerist when I was leaving it. You have to understand people's values and struggles. Basically life is tough and people do their best to look good and have a good time. In Ukraine, like in many other countries, opinion of others is important exactly because everyone is in the open - walking down the street, talk to each other etc. So you have to look fashionable to stand out which I actually like! Why would I choose a woman who is wearing pajamas and slippers everyday?

Fashionable clothes those women wear aren't always expensive, there are lots of "fake Chinese imports" that look like brand-name clothes. Also most of those girls spend all their money on clothes just because it is important in their culture, just like Americans spend so much money on buying a new pickup truck.

Ukraine isn't Asia and hasn't ever been Asia. When you are a foreigner who is going there for a first time - you are a great catch for gold-diggers who just want to use you to have a good time. There are still many decent women available, I know that for sure. As I stated, you have to go to smaller cities and you have to choose wisely which does not come easy. Not every girl is going to jump on you and do everything for you just because you are an American.

Besides, why not take a girl to a decent restaurant? Average prices in Kiev are pretty similar to those in any similar sized American city.

If I would go to Ukraine, I would have a list of many girls to meet. I would also ask them to take their female friends with us to go party up. I would be planning on spending at least 2 weeks there or 3.

Going to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan is definitely a better option, those countries are a bit cheaper and not as exposed to Americans for sure. But that could change too as this forum is read by hundreds of people that don't register and don't write here.


THAT'S WHY I TRY NOT TO BE SPECIFIC WHEN I TALK ABOUT OFF THE BEATEN PATHES. You guys should take heed to the creed by not revealing those whole in the walls. That's why I have respect for guys like Contrarian Expat and The Wacky World of O from YouTube; they do not believe in talking about the places that most americans have NOT been to. They know that America f***s up everything it exposes itself to.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

TanBoy by DNA | Despedido, Hugo Chavez...Descansa en paz!
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Postby aozora13 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:21 pm

I have to agree E_Irizarry. The OP needs to get his education. If I come back to the US, I will try to see if I can get more IT certs and maybe go get a master's degree. I think that is the best option. It is good he is traveling but really the reason why most guys such as Contrarian does not mention his specific travels as much is that it is based on the person's experiences.

I believe he mentioned in one post that he was able to have fun in one country with finding nice girls but not in another one. This was in Eastern Europe. Another person can have fun and a good time in his country he did not do so well in so it varies on the person. I believe that is true for me too since I have been to several countries and I feel that some countries are better for meeting people than others.
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