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Having "Game" - False PUA Myths

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby Andrewww » Mon May 20, 2013 9:11 am

I spent almost 2 years "practicing" PUA and game. All the books & internet BS can be summed up in a few key points:

1. Appearance matters whether you want to date women in NA or abroad. It doesn't have to be something you do 24/7, just going to the gym 3 days a week (for an hour), buying more fashionable clothes (and more expensive but better quality) and learning how to cook simple meals instead of going out and eating fast food crap is something I got out of PUA. I wasn't a fat guy or anything but gaining a bit of muscle mass really helped my confidence.

2. The "game" is really all about numbers. I bet 90% of all the women I had sex with would've done so even if I hadn't read one line of PUA. The problem is that you need to have the balls and the motivation to approach a lot of women. You don't have to show interest or ask phone numbers, just start normal conversations. Some will lead nowhere, others will have potential for something more. There really are no rules...I never waited 45 hours, 23 minutes and 5 seconds to call someone, I always paid for dinners when I invited someone, I do act like a gentleman with women that show interest. Some called me before I got a chance to call them, some invited me over even though I didn't suggest it.

One thing I do like to point out is that you have to become an asshole. You just have to stop caring. I stopped analyzing why someone bailed me on the last minute. I met women who said they were super excited to meet in the week-end and cancelled on Friday night. You have to know when to let go. Never complain, always act as if your life is great. Sometimes lying is also recommended. Never tell a woman that you're bored on a week-end or that you're doing nothing. Always say that you're in the process of doing something important.

The problem is that I haven't met one girl "worthy" of keeping around. Most of them were just boring mediocre people. Most NA women are like that, their lives revolve around gossip with their girlfriends, spending money on crap and showing off their boyfriends. They expect you to be this superguy that makes good money, knows interesting people, works out and cooks while they are essentially parasites. They are walking vaginas with no real use besides sex. They can't cook for shit, their apartments are a mess, they have mediocre jobs and they are borderline annoying.

While some people on this board complain about lack of sex in NA that's really not the issue. If sex is what you want you're better off seeing escorts. It's just not worth the time and money you need to invest in dating to get it. I'd say the major problem is that in NA it's hard to find a girlfriend (or wife) that knows how to take care of a man outside of the bed. Women in EE for example are generally more cultured, you can talk to them for hours and hours, the fact that they don't play games is only a bonus.
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Re: Having "Game" - False PUA Myths

Postby fightforlove » Mon May 20, 2013 5:36 pm

Derp wrote:1. If something goes wrong, it's always your fault and not the woman's.
2. Men have to conform to the rules that women set-up in order to date them.


Playing into the fears and insecurities of young men is the core marketing strategy of the PUA industry. Your only fault is falling for this crap.
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Postby Anti-American » Wed May 22, 2013 4:09 am

I just came across this and it makes alot sense:

Techniques such as memorizing scripted openers or meeting a quota as to how many women you have to approach in one day seem totally ridiculous to me. It reminds me of when we we’re children and talking to girls was a big deal because we were young and had little to no experience at all.

A grown man worrying about such childish garbage to me – especially when he’s in his late 20s and even 30s – is something I just can’t understand. It’s time to grow up, guys, and stop acting like elementary students.

I also don’t believe in meeting women at a bar or club. Who has time to go to a club every single night of the week just to try to find women to practice all these fancy pick-up techniques on? No wonder many pick-up artists quit their jobs and other interests just to devote every single waking moment of their life to pick-up. Yet they keep saying pick-up is about improving yourself and building a life.

How is being unemployed, sitting at a bar all night practicing little kid techniques going to help me improve my life? The answer is, it’s not going to. Read The Game by Neil Strauss sometime and you will see what I mean. He explains how many pick-up artists give up everything in their lives and eventually become social robots. They lose interest in anything that’s not related to pick-up, and that’s all they seem to talk about. When they meet potential friends or dates, they can’t just sit back and relax and enjoy the conversation. Instead, it becomes a social game to where they have to think about how to control the social interaction. All these skills they should know by the time they are in their 30s, but don’t.

And then there’s the argument that most pick up artists are just looking for a great relationship with a woman – but if that were true, then why would they suggest otherwise? Oh, you want examples? Well here’s a great one. How many times have you heard a pick-up artist say that a successful close only ends when you sleep with a woman? It’s mentioned on more occasions that you can imagine. Or isolate the woman from the rest of her friends so that you can build interest by touching her (A.K.A. kino) and end with a kissing close and preferably have sex with her, hopefully the same night. That doesn’t sound like the creation of a successful relationship, but like a guy who’s just looking for sex.

And speaking of sex. Why would pick-up artists have to manipulate a woman into having sex with them when there are more than enough women out there who are not looking for a relationship but just a one night stand or friends-with-benefits?

To me, the whole pick-up artist fad sounds like a bunch of nerdy guys who have no style, personality or looks just looking to get revenge on women for not sleeping with them when they were in their teens.

Or is it a big gimmick where a bunch of dateless guys charge other guys $3500 to attend a boot camp with the promise of getting laid by a bunch of women – only to find out that if they just grew a pair, they could have saved the money that they didn’t have to spend in the first place and instead brought the woman that they care about on a great vacation?


Source: http://thesocialgods.com/why-i-dont-teach-pick-up/
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Postby leavingusa » Mon May 27, 2013 4:53 pm

Maverick wrote:
leavingusa wrote:Game can mean different things, so you have to be specific or you're not saying much.

Things like not qualifying yourself, passing shit tests, dread game and such are practically necessities now.

You pretty much can't get laid anymore without doing it so I don't know how it would be bullshit.

Most guys out there are getting rejected because they can't do things like pass shit tests.

Does game suck or do you suck at it?

80% of people think playing an instrument doesn't work and skinny guys think weights don't work, etc.

Don't get me wrong, maybe girls are bitches and maybe it's not worth it but to say it doesn't work? I think that's a little much.

I have most of my material possessions and my job because of game. Just yesterday the lady at the office who got me my job practically without an interview brought me one of the expensive chairs "because I like you". You bet your sweet a** it works.


Different things work for different people, I guess.

Like I said, I did PUA for a long time and tried just about everything out there. I've found that the best way to get girls is to just stop caring and to do whatever you want all the time. I rarely ever consider a girl's feelings. This works well with American women (which is why I generally have trouble looking at them as relationship material).

Of course, like I said, not all AW are like that, but more are than not.


I found the less you say the better.

Generally if you say one thing they don't like they're out of there so most of game is letting the hamster run by stimulating her imagination, let her fill in the blanks.

What do you do?
It's complicated.

Where do you live?
It's complicated

Do you have a girlfriend?
It's complicated.

Obviously you wouldn't use this every time but variations of this so she thinks you have a fascinating life. Once she has you figured out or she hears something she doesn't like..."I'm a republican", she's out of there.

Being an abrasive dick can occasionally work (dick moves like pick up her drink and slam it) but especially outside of bars and other "drunk" places it's all about evasion.

This is straight from Roissey btw, the whole "alpha" male thing is a pile of bullshit.

I'm an alpha and have a bad habit of saying exactly what's on my mind (pro 2nd amendment, conservative, pro white, etc) and they leave. The game is not saying anything about yourself, suprise, mystery, etc.
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Postby leavingusa » Mon May 27, 2013 5:09 pm

If you have "good" game/good looking it is a numbers game. A small percentage of girls you meet will f**k you but that is enough to have an enviable sex life.

If you are attractive with negative game you will not get laid even if you are good looking, maybe old and fat will settle for you but nothing you want. You will experience constant and repeated disappointment.

You go to bars and every night a girl or two will approach YOU but they will find you boring and leave. Girls will try to start conversations with you but you avoid it because you know they'll reject you 2 minutes later.

That's the problem with not having game, it' puts you in the position of literally nothing. It's not a numbers game at that point it's zero sum. Approach 100 sexy girls, get NONE of them. That's a numbers game no one talks about, there are certain universal things that will put off every woman. If she tolerates it, it's only because she has no other option (you are hot and she is fat).

So in that sense game is very real.
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Postby Maverick » Mon May 27, 2013 9:24 pm

leavingusa wrote:
Maverick wrote:
leavingusa wrote:Game can mean different things, so you have to be specific or you're not saying much.

Things like not qualifying yourself, passing shit tests, dread game and such are practically necessities now.

You pretty much can't get laid anymore without doing it so I don't know how it would be bullshit.

Most guys out there are getting rejected because they can't do things like pass shit tests.

Does game suck or do you suck at it?

80% of people think playing an instrument doesn't work and skinny guys think weights don't work, etc.

Don't get me wrong, maybe girls are bitches and maybe it's not worth it but to say it doesn't work? I think that's a little much.

I have most of my material possessions and my job because of game. Just yesterday the lady at the office who got me my job practically without an interview brought me one of the expensive chairs "because I like you". You bet your sweet a** it works.


Different things work for different people, I guess.

Like I said, I did PUA for a long time and tried just about everything out there. I've found that the best way to get girls is to just stop caring and to do whatever you want all the time. I rarely ever consider a girl's feelings. This works well with American women (which is why I generally have trouble looking at them as relationship material).

Of course, like I said, not all AW are like that, but more are than not.


I found the less you say the better.

Generally if you say one thing they don't like they're out of there so most of game is letting the hamster run by stimulating her imagination, let her fill in the blanks.


What do you do?
It's complicated.

Where do you live?
It's complicated

Do you have a girlfriend?
It's complicated.

Obviously you wouldn't use this every time but variations of this so she thinks you have a fascinating life. Once she has you figured out or she hears something she doesn't like..."I'm a republican", she's out of there.

Being an abrasive dick can occasionally work (dick moves like pick up her drink and slam it) but especially outside of bars and other "drunk" places it's all about evasion.

This is straight from Roissey btw, the whole "alpha" male thing is a pile of bullshit.

I'm an alpha and have a bad habit of saying exactly what's on my mind (pro 2nd amendment, conservative, pro white, etc) and they leave. The game is not saying anything about yourself, suprise, mystery, etc.


This is absolutely true, especially the bolded.

I'm also alpha (not fake alpha like the meatheads, but will genuinely say and do what I want all of the time). AW get VERY offended if you say even one little thing that they disagree with.

I've learned to do what you say. Speak less and be more physically aggressive.

Since I've been talking to foreign women, I've had to change that style significantly, since they respond better to actual conversation and communication....and less to sexual innuendos (which is what is necessary to date AW).
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Postby Maverick » Mon May 27, 2013 9:31 pm

leavingusa wrote:If you have "good" game/good looking it is a numbers game. A small percentage of girls you meet will f**k you but that is enough to have an enviable sex life.

If you are attractive with negative game you will not get laid even if you are good looking, maybe old and fat will settle for you but nothing you want. You will experience constant and repeated disappointment.

You go to bars and every night a girl or two will approach YOU but they will find you boring and leave. Girls will try to start conversations with you but you avoid it because you know they'll reject you 2 minutes later.

That's the problem with not having game, it' puts you in the position of literally nothing. It's not a numbers game at that point it's zero sum. Approach 100 sexy girls, get NONE of them. That's a numbers game no one talks about, there are certain universal things that will put off every woman. If she tolerates it, it's only because she has no other option (you are hot and she is fat).

So in that sense game is very real.


A lot of it is also experience and comfort.

When I was doing PUA and going out A LOT, I noticed that I was able to say and do way less and be more successful with women. Even now, I don't have to approach that much to find a girl for the night (which is in contrast to when I first started out....when I had to approach like crazy to even get a girl to be nice to me). Something certainly changed. It wasn't my looks though....and, to be honest, it wasn't even my conscious game. It was probably more my attitude and how I looked at the whole thing.

Of course, these girls are not relationship material and I don't particularly enjoy interacting with them, which is why I'm seeking women abroad. :D
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Postby Rocky Top » Mon May 27, 2013 9:56 pm

have2fly wrote:Absolutely agree! PUA felt awkward and "too heavy to learn". That made me think right away that there is something wrong. I figured out the same thing about PUA - why men have to learn interactions with women and not the other way around? That means men have to compete for women even higher with PUA. Another one - why do I have to become "cocky-funny" if I am not that guy? I am honest, serious and intelligent. "BOORING" say American women. "Go f**k yourself" I respond! Enough said.


"Cocky funny"... that is my biggest dislike of the whole strategy. I'm just not built that way. I can make up stupid jokes or laugh at stupid jokes. Plus, my sense of humor to most women is totally different than some of the things they consider funny because they want sitcom funny, cocky funny or something else that is jusclichéd. I would rather just be me and not contort myself into some character they want.
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Postby leavingusa » Tue May 28, 2013 12:20 am

Maverick wrote:
leavingusa wrote:
Maverick wrote:
leavingusa wrote:Game can mean different things, so you have to be specific or you're not saying much.

Things like not qualifying yourself, passing shit tests, dread game and such are practically necessities now.

You pretty much can't get laid anymore without doing it so I don't know how it would be bullshit.

Most guys out there are getting rejected because they can't do things like pass shit tests.

Does game suck or do you suck at it?

80% of people think playing an instrument doesn't work and skinny guys think weights don't work, etc.

Don't get me wrong, maybe girls are bitches and maybe it's not worth it but to say it doesn't work? I think that's a little much.

I have most of my material possessions and my job because of game. Just yesterday the lady at the office who got me my job practically without an interview brought me one of the expensive chairs "because I like you". You bet your sweet a** it works.


Different things work for different people, I guess.

Like I said, I did PUA for a long time and tried just about everything out there. I've found that the best way to get girls is to just stop caring and to do whatever you want all the time. I rarely ever consider a girl's feelings. This works well with American women (which is why I generally have trouble looking at them as relationship material).

Of course, like I said, not all AW are like that, but more are than not.


I found the less you say the better.

Generally if you say one thing they don't like they're out of there so most of game is letting the hamster run by stimulating her imagination, let her fill in the blanks.


What do you do?
It's complicated.

Where do you live?
It's complicated

Do you have a girlfriend?
It's complicated.

Obviously you wouldn't use this every time but variations of this so she thinks you have a fascinating life. Once she has you figured out or she hears something she doesn't like..."I'm a republican", she's out of there.

Being an abrasive dick can occasionally work (dick moves like pick up her drink and slam it) but especially outside of bars and other "drunk" places it's all about evasion.

This is straight from Roissey btw, the whole "alpha" male thing is a pile of bullshit.

I'm an alpha and have a bad habit of saying exactly what's on my mind (pro 2nd amendment, conservative, pro white, etc) and they leave. The game is not saying anything about yourself, suprise, mystery, etc.


This is absolutely true, especially the bolded.

I'm also alpha (not fake alpha like the meatheads, but will genuinely say and do what I want all of the time). AW get VERY offended if you say even one little thing that they disagree with.

I've learned to do what you say. Speak less and be more physically aggressive.

Since I've been talking to foreign women, I've had to change that style significantly, since they respond better to actual conversation and communication....and less to sexual innuendos (which is what is necessary to date AW).


Right, totally agree.

But then that's the Roissey/Heartiste school of game right now.

When we talk about "PUA" or "game" that means different things to different people.

Sometimes it seems we are saying different things but it's really the same thing.

For instance "be a jerk" means different things to people.
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Postby leavingusa » Tue May 28, 2013 12:27 am

Maverick wrote:
leavingusa wrote:If you have "good" game/good looking it is a numbers game. A small percentage of girls you meet will f**k you but that is enough to have an enviable sex life.

If you are attractive with negative game you will not get laid even if you are good looking, maybe old and fat will settle for you but nothing you want. You will experience constant and repeated disappointment.

You go to bars and every night a girl or two will approach YOU but they will find you boring and leave. Girls will try to start conversations with you but you avoid it because you know they'll reject you 2 minutes later.

That's the problem with not having game, it' puts you in the position of literally nothing. It's not a numbers game at that point it's zero sum. Approach 100 sexy girls, get NONE of them. That's a numbers game no one talks about, there are certain universal things that will put off every woman. If she tolerates it, it's only because she has no other option (you are hot and she is fat).

So in that sense game is very real.


A lot of it is also experience and comfort.

When I was doing PUA and going out A LOT, I noticed that I was able to say and do way less and be more successful with women. Even now, I don't have to approach that much to find a girl for the night (which is in contrast to when I first started out....when I had to approach like crazy to even get a girl to be nice to me). Something certainly changed. It wasn't my looks though....and, to be honest, it wasn't even my conscious game. It was probably more my attitude and how I looked at the whole thing.

Of course, these girls are not relationship material and I don't particularly enjoy interacting with them, which is why I'm seeking women abroad. :D


And by doing less and being totally confident about it you're making her feel like she has to talk more.

Again this would be Roissey style game.

When you're texting for instance just responding with one or two word answers. Your answers are always shorter and less thought out than hers.

The principle being whoever tries least wins, that's game.
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Postby Maverick » Tue May 28, 2013 4:21 am

leavingusa wrote:
Maverick wrote:
leavingusa wrote:If you have "good" game/good looking it is a numbers game. A small percentage of girls you meet will f**k you but that is enough to have an enviable sex life.

If you are attractive with negative game you will not get laid even if you are good looking, maybe old and fat will settle for you but nothing you want. You will experience constant and repeated disappointment.

You go to bars and every night a girl or two will approach YOU but they will find you boring and leave. Girls will try to start conversations with you but you avoid it because you know they'll reject you 2 minutes later.

That's the problem with not having game, it' puts you in the position of literally nothing. It's not a numbers game at that point it's zero sum. Approach 100 sexy girls, get NONE of them. That's a numbers game no one talks about, there are certain universal things that will put off every woman. If she tolerates it, it's only because she has no other option (you are hot and she is fat).

So in that sense game is very real.


A lot of it is also experience and comfort.

When I was doing PUA and going out A LOT, I noticed that I was able to say and do way less and be more successful with women. Even now, I don't have to approach that much to find a girl for the night (which is in contrast to when I first started out....when I had to approach like crazy to even get a girl to be nice to me). Something certainly changed. It wasn't my looks though....and, to be honest, it wasn't even my conscious game. It was probably more my attitude and how I looked at the whole thing.

Of course, these girls are not relationship material and I don't particularly enjoy interacting with them, which is why I'm seeking women abroad. :D


And by doing less and being totally confident about it you're making her feel like she has to talk more.

Again this would be Roissey style game.

When you're texting for instance just responding with one or two word answers. Your answers are always shorter and less thought out than hers.

The principle being whoever tries least wins, that's game.


Interesting and definitely possible.

I haven't actually studied game in years (I've been aware of PUA for 6 years, but really haven't look at any new material for the last 3 or so years). This is stuff I just picked up on from going out and interacting.

Either way, it's like night and day with the interactions between AW and FW, in my limited experience so far. Very refreshing!
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Postby Jester » Tue May 28, 2013 4:25 am

leavingusa wrote:
I found the less you say the better.

Generally if you say one thing they don't like they're out of there so most of game is letting the hamster run by stimulating her imagination, let her fill in the blanks.

What do you do?
It's complicated.

Where do you live?
It's complicated

Do you have a girlfriend?
It's complicated.

Obviously you wouldn't use this every time but variations of this so she thinks you have a fascinating life. Once she has you figured out or she hears something she doesn't like..."I'm a republican", she's out of there.

Being an abrasive dick can occasionally work (dick moves like pick up her drink and slam it) but especially outside of bars and other "drunk" places it's all about evasion.

This is straight from Roissey btw, the whole "alpha" male thing is a pile of bullshit.

I'm an alpha and have a bad habit of saying exactly what's on my mind (pro 2nd amendment, conservative, pro white, etc) and they leave. The game is not saying anything about yourself, suprise, mystery, etc.


+1

I am also forceful and direct by nature. I like myself that way. But I learned to play the game. Works in many venues, not just with women. The court jester gets more tail than Conan the Barbarian. I'm not sure why, that's just the way it is.
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Postby celery2010 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:31 am

Although most of PUA is a scam, there are obviously guys (the socially maladjusted, the nerd, etc) who need some tips on how to deal with women. Most men learn these things over time. It's the guys in their early 20's who stand to benefit the most if taught the right way. But the PUA's teach it wrong.
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Postby FreeWanderer » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:59 pm

A little something that i have learned is that a man needs to approach women "quick"- meaning if he is making eye contact with a AW, he needs to get over to her straight-away and start talking to her- what he says is not really that important, what is important is that he is engaging her and INTERRUPTING HER THOUGHT PROCESSES. An American woman will look at a man and within 10 seconds, she will have compiled a list of all the things wrong with you and why she won't sleep with you. IN the next five seconds that assessment will be "saved" and 95% of the time it will be impossible for man to break out of that non-fuck category.

A man needs to engage an AW quickly- ask her a question about environment around you, or more importantly a question relating to the AW- its especially advantageous to make AW feel self-conscious, because if she is busy second guessing herself, it means she is not second guessing you. The game now is to keep women off balanced so that their toxic programming doesn't have a chance to come into play. If you can engage her intensely enough to prevent her from thinking thought like "He's creepy" or coming up with a list of reasons your not good enough.

Especially important is making a women feel self-conscious; that is the whole point behind PUA's tactic of "negging" where you back-handedly insult a women, or make fun of her. It shifts focus from your approach on her and puts spotlight on the women and why she isn't good enough for you. There was a great quote ill paraphrase from a Dilbert Comic I will never forget- "The craziest people control and frame reality." Developing a mask of a Huge Ego, narcissism, pathological-yet-fun lying will take you far...

Don't be afraid to treat AW badly, because they certainly don't have any reservations about treating you badly- in fact, on an approach to a bitchy AW, if you watch her face closely and don't get distracted by tits and ass (hard i know) you will see that you can read what a woman is thinking in her eyes and face- it works both ways though, women easily read men because men are obvious as f**k all. The point here being- if you see her upper lip rise as though she is smelling a bad smell- or detect a look of dissatisfaction that you are approaching, YOU can be rest assured she does not respect you and is going to shoot you down with extreme prejudice- but this is not a reason to 'Abort"!!! - this is a blessing in disguise because now you know that "being yourself" (being a nice guy) wasn't going to get you anywhere, so its okay to be an asshole. Tell her outfit doesn't flatter her at all. when she inquires why, link it to a physical aspect of her body that she is pretty self conscious of. Even if you don't sleep with her, be proud that you managed to take these AW down a peg.

Its hard on self proclaimed "nice guys,"- all you guys want is to be good and have a women be good to you- but you have to realize, its a great feeling to reclaim that Ass-holy- manliness that has been socially engineered out of American Men. That Ass-Holy quality is the only weapon men have left availble to counter the bitchy nature of women because... well, you just can't beat women anymore.

Its not a nice feeling being able to understand women after so many years of my infatuated youth pursuing them- the true nature of women isn't a pleasant revelation. NEVER give a women your respect unless she has earned it- make her earn every good thing you do for her, because i know that with AW, if you give gifts freely, their entitlement complex makes them believe that deserve all those gifts and they'll come to expect it always. It does not do you any favors to be a "good man" to women who are not "good".
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Postby Mr.Darcy » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:32 pm

Guys need to stop acting like having a woman will end all of their problems and pedestalizing the p***y. White Knights are a big chunk of the reason why american girls act like this.
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