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Why is Winston so fat?

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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby Adama » Tue May 24, 2016 3:07 am

You're eating too often. Eat less often. Your body will learn to run on fat and ketone bodies which will give you energy you never knew you had. You will not need coffee or tea.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby jamesbond » Tue May 24, 2016 1:51 pm

Moretorque wrote:Mr. Wu has no excuse for being fat, he should get plenty of exercise chasing whores.


:D :P :lol:
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby dancilley » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:44 am

The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

Carbs satisfy the hunger drive.

Water satisfies the thirst drive.

- John McDougall, M.D.

In my experience, for me, if I eat animal fat and/or plant oils, I get fat. Pure fats are easily stored as fat.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby retiredfrank » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:11 am

What's wrong with being fat? Maybe Winston should embrace his inner fatty, like the lovelies in this article:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_564e0a61e4b08c74b734c008
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby Kradmelder » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:34 am

retiredfrank wrote:What's wrong with being fat? Maybe Winston should embrace his inner fatty, like the lovelies in this article:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_564e0a61e4b08c74b734c008


Or maybe embrace those fatties. A session in bed with those heavy weights will be such a work out that you will lose 10 kg :lol:
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby dancilley » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:58 pm

For anyone who's reading this, please do an experiment:

Weigh yourself. Then eat only potatoes, as much as you want, throughout the day, for 30 days.

After 30 days, weigh yourself.

How much weight did you lose?

In my experience, I have never gained fat by eating this way (vegan high-carb, low fat diet).

I only gain fat when I eat fatty foods, like potato chips, ice cream, meat, chocolate, etc.

The fat you eat is the fat you wear. Carbs satisfy the hunger drive.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby HouseMD » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:44 pm

dancilley wrote:For anyone who's reading this, please do an experiment:

Weigh yourself. Then eat only potatoes, as much as you want, throughout the day, for 30 days.

After 30 days, weigh yourself.

How much weight did you lose?

In my experience, I have never gained fat by eating this way (vegan high-carb, low fat diet).

I only gain fat when I eat fatty foods, like potato chips, ice cream, meat, chocolate, etc.

The fat you eat is the fat you wear. Carbs satisfy the hunger drive.

This is the worst advice basically ever, and shows a serious failure to understand how human fat is created and stored. It's easier to turn carbs into fat than animal or plant fat into storable human fat, due to differences in fat structure, how it is processed, etc. This is exactly why paleo-style diets (high fat, high protein, low-carb, ketogenic diets) are so effective- it's a pain in the ass to create fat from protein, and only slightly less of a pain in the ass to make it from fat, particularly when your body is in a state in which it is converting fatty molecules into ketones and thus is incapable of building fat for storage (the storage system basically has a catabolic and anabolic state, it simply can't do both at the same time care of the way the enzymes are regulated).

Here's a basic primer on fatty acid catabolism, as well as a whole website dealing with metabolism, if you would like to actually learn something instead of sticking to a disproven diet from the 80s: https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/fatcatab.htm
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby Rock » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:06 pm

In my own personal experience, carbs from bread, pasta, perhaps rice, and processed foods that are so tempting are what make me tired and cause my fat cells to bloat quickly.

Even if I eat all the fish, chicken, pork, butter, coconut oil, veggies, fruits (not smoothies but the actual fruit), nuts, sesame seeds, honey, certain spices, and even dark chocolate while drinking water and maybe a glass of wine at night, my weight will stabilize at a BMI of 24 ish which with my bone and muscle structure makes me look slim and fit. If I do some fairly intense (by my standards) resistance exercise even once a week and maybe add a day of circuit (jogging mixed with sprinting) for another day of the week for just 20-30 min, I will carry my 24 BMI in a more athletic and healthy looking way.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby retiredfrank » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:07 pm

@HouseMD: I've joked with you before, but now I'm serious. You need to go back and study human physiology, kid. Or take that MD off your screen name before you disgrace the profession.

De novo lipogenesis from carbs is almost non-existent in humans (though very efficient in pigs and cows, among other animals). Research it, lots of high quality studies on this point. I'd give the pubmed links if I had then at hand.

Turning dietary fat into bodily fat is almost effortless after digestion. Fat in the bloodstream realily migrates into fat cells. Anabolism/catabolism for glycogen/protein is driven by insulin and yes there are two states, but fat moves in and out of storage independent of insulin and there is no anabolic/catabolic switch for fat.

Turning protein into fat is essentially impossible I humans, you are correct about that.

Dan is right that the fat you eat is the fat you wear. However, all grains have 10% or more fat, so grain eaters will simply burn the carbs and burn/use the protein and store the fat. Ditto for any diets that has any fat, which means all sustainable diets, since no fat in the diet leads to lack of essential fatty acids eventually. The body always burns the carbs first (after filling the glycogen reserves) then burns fat, then stores excess fat, if any (or burns fat from storage if not enough calories in the diet).

The all potato diet would work, since potaties have no fat (leading to deficiencies of essential fatty acids eventually) except it does not satsify hunger, contrary to Dan. Potatoes are bulky, so you'd get bloated if you tried to overeat them, so yes you will lose weight on this diet IF YOU CAN MAINTAIN IT. With fatless refined carbs, you could overload the digestive system, since no bulk to inhibit overseeing, causing fermentation in the stomach-very painful and leading to vomiting.

The paleo diet works short-term by suppressing appetite. There is no scientific evidence for or against it in the long-run, because long-run dietary studies have too many variables. Compliance is the big issue. However, anecdotal evidence suggests that, among the difficult groups (older men and women), high-protein medium-carb low-fat is what works. The traditional cottage cheese or tuna fish on a bed of salad greens and beans diet.

Old people on low carb, high fat are a sorry looking crew. That living la vida lowcarb guy is a fine example of the paleo diet not working long term in old people.

You are a young man. Any diet will work for you if you want it to work. The long term high fat diet success stories are almost all young men.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby HouseMD » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Except science has proved this whole idea incredibly incorrect. That's not just my opinion, that's the mainstay belief of current medical science: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/opinions/debate-low-fat-diet-ludwig/

Many years ago, big sugar companies and Big Ag pushed hard for numerous reasons to make carbs=good and fat=bad the mantra of the nation via some clever lobbying and backroom deals. As to animal fats, human triglycerides have certain structural requirements that must be met- animal fats cannot, on their own, meet these requirements in the proper ratios, resulting in a lot of animal fat being converted to cholesterol rather than fat, as the cholesterol pathway is more favorable than the triglyceride pathway for very long chain fatty acids if there is an excess of dietary fat. Yeah, some of it does get processed into triglycerides, but not in the same ratio as carbs, which, in excess, can be converted with almost 100% efficiency into pure, unadulterated triglycerides. If you are eating no carbs, it becomes damn near impossible for your body to convert anything to triglycerides because all of the pathways get switched to ketogenesis and gluconeogenesis (since you are taking in no carbs to provide the glucose required by many cells, such as brain and blood cells, to function properly). Pathways can't work in both directions at the same time, as they depend on singular enzymes that can only operate in one direction or the other.

Now, the trouble you get into, and that a lot of people do, is that you are thinking of a high fat/high protein diet in the presence of carbs and under non-ketogenic conditions. Under those metabolic circumstances, carbs and fats both have their issues, with carbs making you fatter but fats giving you substantially worsened cholesterol profiles. A ketogenic diet has been scientifically proven in multiple studies to have improved results versus low-carb, calorie restricted diets in regard to weight loss. Here's an article in the NYT that covers one of the biggest studies:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/health/low-carb-vs-low-fat-diet.html?_r=0

A low fat diet with calorie restriction is better than a normal diet, but a low-carb ketogenic diet has never been shown to have inferior results when put head-to-head with a low fat diet. Believe all the outdated lies you want, we've done actual studies on animals, humans, and in the lab that show this is the optimum way to eat if you want to be lean and, as an added bonus, maintain muscle mass.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby retiredfrank » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:14 pm

The idea that animal fat cannot be easily turned into human fat is a new one for me. But there are plenty of older fatties following a low-carb diet unsuccessfully who provide anecdotal evidence that this idea is not entirely correct.

The experiments regarding th de novo lipogenesus from carbs in humans were performed long ago. Overfeed volunteers a diet of carbs and protein but no fat. Result? Metabolism went up to burn of the excess calories as heat but very little stored as fat.

Low fat like Dan Cilley is suggesting is unsustainable, of course, partly from lack of essential fatty acids, partly from compliance issues. Compliance is also an issue with the ketogenic diets. Compliance is a psychological issue and makes worthwhile experiments impossible. But the anecdotal evidence among the difficult cases is not very good for ketogenic diets.

Young men don't count. A young man who doesn't have a six-pack regardless of diet is a lazy slob. I'm 56 and have a six-pack (diet built around bread, beans, broccoli, sardines, chocolate, cheese cake, same thing every day, one big meal per day, slightly different diet when I'm in Europe). Anecdotal evidence of course.
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby HouseMD » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:17 pm

retiredfrank wrote:The idea that animal fat cannot be easily turned into human fat is a new one for me. But there are plenty of older fatties following a low-carb diet unsuccessfully who provide anecdotal evidence that this idea is not entirely correct.

The experiments regarding th de novo lipogenesus from carbs in humans were performed long ago. Overfeed volunteers a diet of carbs and protein but no fat. Result? Metabolism went up to burn of the excess calories as heat but very little stored as fat.

Low fat like Dan Cilley is suggesting is unsustainable, of course, partly from lack of essential fatty acids, partly from compliance issues. Compliance is also an issue with the ketogenic diets. Compliance is a psychological issue and makes worthwhile experiments impossible. But the anecdotal evidence among the difficult cases is not very good for ketogenic diets.

Young men don't count. A young man who doesn't have a six-pack regardless of diet is a lazy slob. I'm 56 and have a six-pack (diet built around bread, beans, broccoli, sardines, chocolate, cheese cake, same thing every day, one big meal per day, slightly different diet when I'm in Europe). Anecdotal evidence of course.

Really, either diet can have positive results, but you tend to lose little, if any, muscle mass on a ketogenic diet, and compliance tends to be easier (bacon and steak versus rice and beans? Choice is easy for me...).
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Re: Why is Winston so fat?

Postby retiredfrank » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:33 pm

The choice might be easy for you, but the thing Dan got right is that most humans lust after carbs way more than fat. This is why the low fat diets tend to be sustainable (not zero fat like all potatoes) but not ketogenic diets. That's right, in the long run, most humans find rice and beans more satisfying than bacon and steak. Again, young men don't count, nor men like me who are old in years but have a young man's metabolism.

For old people, rice and beans is satisfying but lacks enough protein, given they will only be eating a tiny plate of rice and beans. So replace the rice with lean meat, fish or dairy.
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