Which is better: Going abroad or becoming part of the 20%?

[Truthville]

Such anger from some of the new folks!

I get what you were saying Maximus BUT to me personally it brings to mind some experiences I had when I was younger.

Like the friends whom bought fancy/muscle cars so they can pick up more "chicks!"

Or

The friends whom listened to certain bands or joined certain organizations to get more "chicks!"

Either way you look at it, IMHO , it's STILL bowing down, changing and dancing to the tune of AW/WW! "Peacocking" as the PUA or pathetically undeveloped adolescents as I call them, describe this phenomenon.

Working out for health reasons etc......is a GOOD thing BUT like the car example above, do you really want to date women, besides casually, whom look at you for what you have (money, muscles etc....) rather than what you are?

The other question is, as other posters wrote, is ARE THEY WORTH IT!

In my limited experience, and it could be just me and the people I've know, the answer, for the majority, would be NO!

Most woman whom are actually marriage or even good relationship material are, once again IMHO, taken quite early in their dating lives. MOST good men are ignored and then when the AW hits 30 or so...blah blah blah you know the rest I'm sure.

One thing you should realize is that ONCE you are out of college, your "hook-ups" and what-not will dry up faster than spit in a desert! Enjoy it while you can because once you graduate, and perhaps decide not to go further with a Masters and what-not, your dating life outside your social circle will become your noose.

[Blue Murder]

Such anger from some of the new folks!

I get what you were saying Maximus BUT to me personally it brings to mind some experiences I had when I was younger.

Like the friends whom bought fancy/muscle cars so they can pick up more "chicks!"

Or

The friends whom listened to certain bands or joined certain organizations to get more "chicks!"

Either way you look at it, IMHO , it's STILL bowing down, changing and dancing to the tune of AW/WW! "Peacocking" as the PUA or pathetically undeveloped adolescents as I call them, describe this phenomenon.

Working out for health reasons etc......is a GOOD thing BUT like the car example above, do you really want to date women, besides casually, whom look at you for what you have (money, muscles etc....) rather than what you are?

The other question is, as other posters wrote, is ARE THEY WORTH IT!

In my limited experience, and it could be just me and the people I've know, the answer, for the majority, would be NO!

Most woman whom are actually marriage or even good relationship material are, once again IMHO, taken quite early in their dating lives. MOST good men are ignored and then when the AW hits 30 or so...blah blah blah you know the rest I'm sure.

One thing you should realize is that ONCE you are out of college, your "hook-ups" and what-not will dry up faster than spit in a desert! Enjoy it while you can because once you graduate, and perhaps decide not to go further with a Masters and what-not, your dating life outside your social circle will become your noose.

You see. THIS is what that dipship should've said from the get-go. The way you said it, Truthville, was more like a, "Well, sure. If it'll help, do it for the time being WHILE ALSO trying to go abroad/leave the West." And there is some sense in that. I mean, if you're going to be stuck where you are for a while anyhow, why not do SOMETHING just to EXPERIMENT? Yeah. I feel that. But let's not forget the backbone of this site -- to date non-Western women. And you've stayed true to the foundation of this site.

With 99.9% of good Western women taken early, it's no wonder that shit's going to even more shit. Hell, since society is collapsing on itself, even the very few GOOD Western gals are being ignored for their more promiscuous sisters, which in turn, makes 'em bitter. Like for example, virgin girls of a certain age. I prefer virgins, so I don't fit into this category.

I mean, I do a lot of shit. As a Life Junkie, I'm always doing SOMETHING. And I'll admit -- while athletic, I could be doing more straight weight-lifting and shit to get brolic. And I would. Except I have this thing where I don't like working out where others can watch. Just . . . no. I'll definitely being doing more in the future. Because of Western women? No. Because I like being in shape? Yes.

You pretty-much hit the nail on the head in your post. I mean, the OP doesn't realise the dichotomy he presents with this thread.

Yes. There's the whole 'foreign women scam' -- and that's true. They do. But women EVERYWHERE do it. And, in fact, when you look at what you said earlier about your mates switching it up and getting superficial to get birds, that in itself implies that WW are potentially scammers, in a different sense. You shell out the money for that fancy car, but what happens if another dude has a FANCIER car? OR how about this?

A couple from a second or third-world nation moves to the first-world. After the wife starts to assimilate, and realise the better life she's going to have, shit will change. She ends up leaving the husband high and dry, who spent his hard-earned money AND time trying to get her there in the first place, for a local. Not really a 'scam' in the exact and/or literal sense -- because it's worse.

[All_That_Is_Man]

Hola hombres (pardon the spanglish). I'm a newly joined member but I have been following this forum a few months now. Just a bit about myself. I'm a young black South African studying engineering at a Canadian university (on my own accord, no affirmative action lol, but paid for by my father). After having spent a few years here, I have garnered the same view that many of you here have about Western women. Googling this stuff is what actually lead me to this forum.

My question is, if you had the opportunity to become part of the 20% of men here (this is alluding to that whole "80% of women are after 20% of the men" theory, dynamic, whatever it is) as well as being able to go abroad, which would you choose? And this is assuming you would be successful with either choice or approach.

For me personally, I would much rather be part of the 20% here and it's what I am aiming to do. This my wasn't original intention actually. After getting sick of western girls, I told myself last year that I'd go herbivore till I graduated and went home (or where ever I can find a good job). At the same time, I must also admit that I was also at fault. Around the time when first I arrived here, I got swept up by that whole PUA game garbage (Kezia Noble and the likes, even bought her damn book, smh). See the thing is, when I was in my first year, I was actually kinda successful with girls here (plus they were as horny as first year girls can be). When my success started to wane, attributed it to my game having gone sour some how. I tried everything the PUAs suggest to improve. That whole "confidence" and "alpha" tune they keep singing, getting expensive clothes, making loads of approaches. That all just got me a bucket load of rejection haha.

What I didn't realise was that the main reason I wasn't as good was simply because I stopped working out and became pudgy. How do I know this. Well about the same time I decided to go herbivore, September last year, I also somehow won a membership to nearby gym. I went on with it, just to have a hobby, wasn't thinking about women at the time. After 8 months of dedicated and consistent weight training, I am now developing a physique better than I've ever had before. My goal is to have a physique like Steeve Reeves or Chris Evans. It's astonishing how I get treated by women now. They treat better than ever before. I instantly get respect. I can just be myself, without being a PUA or bad boy/"alpha", and they are more welcoming, more approachable and easier to talk to. I even get approached now. To be honest, I have capitalised as much on it now because I want to focus primarily on my summer classes (just completed a 1 year internship) and I'm still kinda get used to this attention.

So since I've "gone up the ranks" so to speak, I think I'm going to enjoy myself, with women, when I finally have the time to (and I honestly feel like there's no need to rush into it as I'm not as thirsty as I used to be lol). But this is what I want to propose to you guys here. Instead of spending a lot of money (student's perspective) on trips to Asia or where ever, why not invest in a gym membership and work on attaining a more muscular, more attractive physique? (like Chris Evans, not Arnold and the other juice monkeys). It will get you respect and attention from the women here, and it feels great (looking that way, I mean).

I follow some of the MRAs on YouTube, particularly barbarossaaaa. I have to agree with him when he says that women everywhere - no matter if they are of a different culture, are traditional or feminised/westernised - operate and think the same. It's always firstly about their self-interest, their safety and security, and what resources, assets or wealth they can attain for themselves. All women are selfish. Sorry but I don't believe that if you're unattractive to women here, you're somehow going to be attractive to women on the other side of the world just because there isn't a system that allows them to be as arrogant, self-serving and self-entitled. I'm sorry but, to me, if a woman from a 3rd world or former Soviet country suddenly has interest in you, where as American and or Canadian women didn't, it's mostly because you offer something (perhaps monetary, socioeconomic) that can feed her interests.

I have nothing against going abroad or foreign women. I have been to places like Europe and experienced the culture and have seen how foreign women conduct themselves. If the going abroad thing is working for you, that is great, carry on and I wish you continued success. (Instead of going to Asia next, try South Africa, the women are great there too ) But in my opinion, it's just not as much of a financially viable option as opposed to staying here and improving your physique, which will improve your prospects. I mean, some men end up supporting the foreign women and their parents/families. I'm sure many of us don't want to end up in that kind of situation.

In my current situation, becoming one of the 20% would be much more beneficial to me. But ask me this again in 1 month when my passport book arrives!

I want to add that "working out" and "getting a better physique" should be done for YOU, your health, your self-image, and your sex life - NOT to impress women. I can understand how other members are mistaking you for a mangina, because the first rule of mangina law is "Change who you are to gain acceptance from women." (or maybe that's the second rule, right after "remove your balls"...). If working out and getting a body like Brad Pitt from the 1999 film Fight Club will improve your mood, GREAT! If it will impress an otherwise misandric clan of American women as well, then that's... nice, too. Personally, I have a goal in mind, and that goal is to travel abroad and meet real women. Even now in the U.S., the few foreign women I talk to (in person; living here from non-feminist countries) are generally attractive, kind, flirty, open, and they seem to love men! I don't get any of this special treatment from American women (Captain America pecks or not), and if I do, then it's a rare occasion that would make a psychic Pokémon blush.

But, I too will be jumping on the "workout" bandwagon. I can't say that I will be joining a gym per se, but I just made a sizable investment in at-home dumbbells that I have been using now for 2 weeks. It has improved my mood, my health, my energy, and definitely my physique! I don't know if it has bumped me up to the 20% (whatever the f**k that is anyway), but I could care less about attracting western women, considering there are nothing but black girls in my area anyway. If you don't know me, MaximusGlory, I am a black man myself; but I'm sure you (being a native of South Africa) can confirm that western black women are the epitome of trash - and quite the culture shock compared to the African-born black women you were used to.

[MaximusGlory]

Hola hombres (pardon the spanglish). I'm a newly joined member but I have been following this forum a few months now. Just a bit about myself. I'm a young black South African studying engineering at a Canadian university (on my own accord, no affirmative action lol, but paid for by my father). After having spent a few years here, I have garnered the same view that many of you here have about Western women. Googling this stuff is what actually lead me to this forum.

My question is, if you had the opportunity to become part of the 20% of men here (this is alluding to that whole "80% of women are after 20% of the men" theory, dynamic, whatever it is) as well as being able to go abroad, which would you choose? And this is assuming you would be successful with either choice or approach.

For me personally, I would much rather be part of the 20% here and it's what I am aiming to do. This my wasn't original intention actually. After getting sick of western girls, I told myself last year that I'd go herbivore till I graduated and went home (or where ever I can find a good job). At the same time, I must also admit that I was also at fault. Around the time when first I arrived here, I got swept up by that whole PUA game garbage (Kezia Noble and the likes, even bought her damn book, smh). See the thing is, when I was in my first year, I was actually kinda successful with girls here (plus they were as horny as first year girls can be). When my success started to wane, attributed it to my game having gone sour some how. I tried everything the PUAs suggest to improve. That whole "confidence" and "alpha" tune they keep singing, getting expensive clothes, making loads of approaches. That all just got me a bucket load of rejection haha.

What I didn't realise was that the main reason I wasn't as good was simply because I stopped working out and became pudgy. How do I know this. Well about the same time I decided to go herbivore, September last year, I also somehow won a membership to nearby gym. I went on with it, just to have a hobby, wasn't thinking about women at the time. After 8 months of dedicated and consistent weight training, I am now developing a physique better than I've ever had before. My goal is to have a physique like Steeve Reeves or Chris Evans. It's astonishing how I get treated by women now. They treat better than ever before. I instantly get respect. I can just be myself, without being a PUA or bad boy/"alpha", and they are more welcoming, more approachable and easier to talk to. I even get approached now. To be honest, I have capitalised as much on it now because I want to focus primarily on my summer classes (just completed a 1 year internship) and I'm still kinda get used to this attention.

So since I've "gone up the ranks" so to speak, I think I'm going to enjoy myself, with women, when I finally have the time to (and I honestly feel like there's no need to rush into it as I'm not as thirsty as I used to be lol). But this is what I want to propose to you guys here. Instead of spending a lot of money (student's perspective) on trips to Asia or where ever, why not invest in a gym membership and work on attaining a more muscular, more attractive physique? (like Chris Evans, not Arnold and the other juice monkeys). It will get you respect and attention from the women here, and it feels great (looking that way, I mean).

I follow some of the MRAs on YouTube, particularly barbarossaaaa. I have to agree with him when he says that women everywhere - no matter if they are of a different culture, are traditional or feminised/westernised - operate and think the same. It's always firstly about their self-interest, their safety and security, and what resources, assets or wealth they can attain for themselves. All women are selfish. Sorry but I don't believe that if you're unattractive to women here, you're somehow going to be attractive to women on the other side of the world just because there isn't a system that allows them to be as arrogant, self-serving and self-entitled. I'm sorry but, to me, if a woman from a 3rd world or former Soviet country suddenly has interest in you, where as American and or Canadian women didn't, it's mostly because you offer something (perhaps monetary, socioeconomic) that can feed her interests.

I have nothing against going abroad or foreign women. I have been to places like Europe and experienced the culture and have seen how foreign women conduct themselves. If the going abroad thing is working for you, that is great, carry on and I wish you continued success. (Instead of going to Asia next, try South Africa, the women are great there too ) But in my opinion, it's just not as much of a financially viable option as opposed to staying here and improving your physique, which will improve your prospects. I mean, some men end up supporting the foreign women and their parents/families. I'm sure many of us don't want to end up in that kind of situation.

In my current situation, becoming one of the 20% would be much more beneficial to me. But ask me this again in 1 month when my passport book arrives!

I want to add that "working out" and "getting a better physique" should be done for YOU, your health, your self-image, and your sex life - NOT to impress women. I can understand how other members are mistaking you for a mangina, because the first rule of mangina law is "Change who you are to gain acceptance from women." (or maybe that's the second rule, right after "remove your balls"...). If working out and getting a body like Brad Pitt from the 1999 film Fight Club will improve your mood, GREAT! If it will impress an otherwise misandric clan of American women as well, then that's... nice, too. Personally, I have a goal in mind, and that goal is to travel abroad and meet real women. Even now in the U.S., the few foreign women I talk to (in person; living here from non-feminist countries) are generally attractive, kind, flirty, open, and they seem to love men! I don't get any of this special treatment from American women (Captain America pecks or not), and if I do, then it's a rare occasion that would make a psychic Pokémon blush.

But, I too will be jumping on the "workout" bandwagon. I can't say that I will be joining a gym per se, but I just made a sizable investment in at-home dumbbells that I have been using now for 2 weeks. It has improved my mood, my health, my energy, and definitely my physique! I don't know if it has bumped me up to the 20% (whatever the f**k that is anyway), but I could care less about attracting western women, considering there are nothing but black girls in my area anyway. If you don't know me, MaximusGlory, I am a black man myself; but I'm sure you (being a native of South Africa) can confirm that western black women are the epitome of trash - and quite the culture shock compared to the African-born black women you were used to.

The thing is, I did starting workout for myself. I wasn't trying to impress WW (though in the back of mind, I was thinking that gaining a good physique, plus my education, would make me more desirable to when I go back home - to non-black South African women btw, I'll get to that later).
It was a hobby that I decided to invest a lot of time and energy into. The "top 20%" is this concept based on the case of those few men, the ones who seem to have it all - the good looks, the money, the status, etc. - and their ease at getting women (namely WW). My working out increased my success with, and the level of respect that got from, WW. So I'd thought I'd share considering how it has also help my close friends, who have been benefiting for working out for long, but I've just been oblivious to it.

Thought some guys would find my story useful. I hope some have. I'm not a mangina and I don't the mind the hate that I've gotten. The truth is some people just didn't want to read what I had to say, didn't want to even consider it or how it could be beneficial. I'm not telling guys to change their personalities their like PUAs say. I even said in my OP that I went down that route and it just got me more rejection. Just their physical appearance. I tried to stress that being more physically attractive has gotten me more success while allowing me to keep my personality (I am naturally an introverted guy even though I can be outgoing and a good conversationalist). To me, training and working out is not a big change and wouldn't hurt to put in the effort.

[All_That_Is_Man]

The thing is, I did starting workout for myself. I wasn't trying to impress WW (though in the back of mind, I was thinking that gaining a good physique, plus my education, would make me more desirable to when I go back home - to non-black South African women btw, I'll get to that later).
It was a hobby that I decided to invest a lot of time and energy into. The "top 20%" is this concept based on the case of those few men, the ones who seem to have it all - the good looks, the money, the status, etc. - and their ease at getting women (namely WW). My working out increased my success with, and the level of respect that got from, WW. So I'd thought I'd share considering how it has also help my close friends, who have been benefiting for working out for long, but I've just been oblivious to it.

Thought some guys would find my story useful. I hope some have. I'm not a mangina and I don't the mind the hate that I've gotten. The truth is some people just didn't want to read what I had to say, didn't want to even consider it or how it could be beneficial. I'm not telling guys to change their personalities their like PUAs say. I even said in my OP that I went down that route and it just got me more rejection. Just their physical appearance. I tried to stress that being more physically attractive has gotten me more success while allowing me to keep my personality (I am naturally an introverted guy even though I can be outgoing and a good conversationalist). To me, training and working out is not a big change and wouldn't hurt to put in the effort.

Oh and All that is Man, I have to address your last sentence there. Black women... from South Africa... ARE JUST AS BAD... as African American women LOL. They might treat you differently cause you're American (they'll assume you have lots of swag, best not disappoint haha), but in all honesty, the black South African community pretty much has the same problems that the African American community. I doubt if you speak to anyone that they will tell you this, but it's the honest. We have the same problems from drugs, gangs and crime all the way to bad boys and thugz, the women choosing deadbeats, gold diggers (one of our biggest socialites is a self-proclaimed gold digger) and single parent homes. Same issues. Personally, if you want black women from Africa, I think you should rather go to West African or East African countries. That's the vibe that I've gotten from interacting with those kinds of women (especially Nigerian and Ghanaian women). If you want to come to South Africa, I'd say go for the white, indian or asian women. However, all South Africans are becoming more westernised by the day.

I'm glad that a workout regime is developing a healthier, better YOU. And that's the name of the game! You say that it also has gained you respect from western women; this I can't relate to much. "Respect" in my opinion would be western women asking ME out and recognizing that I am the prize! And so far, I only hear about foreign women doing this in non-westernized countries. All the more reason for me to travel abroad rather than making efforts to be the 20%. From your definition of this "20%", however, I can see how both of the two extremes could have their fair share of benefits.

And I'm surprised to hear that about even African black women! You'll find several black men on these forums who agree how awful black women are. Thankfully this forum is not a place of "Political Correctness", so there is no shame in openly speaking the truth of how today's black women make all other women seem heaven-sent - in both the looks department and the behavior. I won't touch them with a 10-foot pole, and it's irritating that I live in a predominantly black area of my town. Hence there is no immediate need for me right now to care about attracting western women. I have no interest in ANY black women, because I am personally not attracted to their physical traits, the way they speak, or their personalities; this goes for western black women AND foreign black women. I guess the West Africans and East Africans will have more to love, but I genuinely don't want any black girl. I will, however, take you up on the white, Indian, and Asian women of South Africa. No doubt about that one!

[All_That_Is_Man]

...I am now developing a physique better than I've ever had before... It's astonishing how I get treated by women now. They treat better than ever before. I instantly get respect... I even get approached now.

Well, MaximusGlory, you do have a point here. Perhaps it is just coincidence that this occurred within my weeks of weightlifting, but today I got approached - not zero times, but TWICE today. No, I am not bragging though. Both girls were really fugly American girls. Oh, and you already know they were both black girls...

I willingly declined.

[Someone]

I've been approached by black girls too, even though I'm a white guy.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Getting out of the west is definitely a good idea. I can not tell you how much nicer it is to just live in non english speaking places where no one hates you just because you are a man. Now, being in the top 20% or top 5% AND living abroad...that is a good combination.

[Jackal]

Getting out of the west is definitely a good idea. I can not tell you how much nicer it is to just live in non english speaking places where no one hates you just because you are a man. Now, being in the top 20% or top 5% AND living abroad...that is a good combination.

I agree totally!

[ethan_sg]

Precisely, why cast pearls before swine?

Getting out of the west is definitely a good idea. I can not tell you how much nicer it is to just live in non english speaking places where no one hates you just because you are a man. Now, being in the top 20% or top 5% AND living abroad...that is a good combination.

I agree totally!

[lavezzi]

I have a much better 2 step solution:

1) Escape the false identity belief system.

2) With your new high levels of confidence, approach foreign women in your nearest city, chat them up then ask for their mobile number.

We are consciousness. There is no self, it's just a concept each person creates which holds us back.

[Blue Murder]

Don't know what nonsense Lavezzi is on about, but it's better to go abroad rather than stay here.

Thread over.

[boycottamericanwomen]

Why are you guys still holding Western women as if they are some unattainable dream?

Dude, western women SUCK. Why the f**k would you even WANT them, what to speak of thinking of them as some lofty goal that is unattainable?

Western women do NOT have high standards. They like low class pigs and scum and thugs. That is LOW CLASS. And the majority of western women are ugly f***ing pigs now.

Foreign women LOOK better, act better, and are generally much more high quality. And they are not some "unattainable" goal, either.

Either way, totally BOYCOTT western women. They are ALL scum, and should be thrown in the garbage.

Yes, western women THINK they are god's gift to humanity. That is how delusional they are. Even though the rest of the world hates them, they still think of themselves as perfect little princesses.

So you men need to stop giving ANY attention to them, so that their egos will deflate and come back to reality. The reason they are so out of control is because you p***y western women treat them like they are some piece of gold, when they are actually a piece of SHIT.

[boycottamericanwomen]

I mean, sometimes I Think that you guys are too retarded to even understand the definition of BOYCOTT.

Boycott means-

do not talk to them. do not look at them. do not date them. do not f**k them. do not marry them. HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!

[Blue Murder]

I'm with you, Boycott. It's that mangina by the name of MaximusGlory that started this thread -- everyone else (including me) shut him down! Focus on him.

And even if everyone else can't see past the bullshit, I do. I plan on leaving the entire Western region. So when I talk shit I can back it up. I'm not like most of the f***s on this site who'll continue to stay in the same place and whine when shit doesn't change.