Discuss and talk about any general topic.
Open Letter to my Wife (Irvine)
Date: 2012-08-15, 1:05AM PDT
Reply to: email@example.com
We have been married over three years now. I am filing for legal separation today. After reassessing my feelings for you, and taking a thorough inventory of our relationship, I have decided that it is time to man up, grow a set of testicles, and cut you from my life like the malignant tumor you are.
As a courtesy to you, and as fair warning for all women out there, I have posted this on Craigslist hoping you read this letter as you are always reading these rants, and every other woman out there, knows what is coming as the wages of the described course of behavior.
Let's start with sex: We were at an amazing resort in French Polynesia on the first day of our honeymoon: over-the-water bungalows, lavish buffets, still, blue lagoons, crystal-clear to the bottom...Wow, was I blown away! Then I had this great idea..."Let's have sex!" I mean, what the hell? It was our honeymoon, after all. "I'm tired." (in your whiny tone) was your response. "Yeah, but it's our honeymoon! We're in paradise, for crying out loud, let's get it on!" "I guess I have to," was your response. Boy, did that make me randy... The next couple of days were a study in sexual procrastination and avoidant behavior on your part. Trying to finagle sex from you had, overnight, become like pulling teeth. Suddenly there were politics involved...not like the entire year before, when you were good to go, 24/7/365.
At the risk of presenting as disjointed, or lacking in continuity, let me interrupt my own letter to pose a question at this juncture: What on earth, outside of regular, willing, and adventurous sex, do you think you have to offer a man? Do you think I married you for your company?...your intellect? Do you think I find following you through Target with a shopping cart more interesting than kicking back with my male friends? Do you think you have a single insight into politics, philosophy, religion, life, sports, finance, or general trivia that has ever shed a single photon of illumination upon my perspective? You do not. Let me be clear: there is nothing, besides the promise of regular, enjoyable sex, that I ever wanted from you...that would ever have made me consider committing to you for the rest of my life. Once sex became an unwilling labor for you, I stopped wanting even that. Men want willing sex. Rapists want unwilling sex. Outside of willing, eager participation in sex, you are nothing but a nuisance, a liability, an annoying distraction, interrupting my otherwise constant state of serenity, and my flow of good ideas.
Oh, back to my story: It was day four of ten of our honeymoon when you pronounced, "I'm not expected to have sex with you every day." "Of course not," I politely answered. "But this is our honeymoon. We're on the other side of the world, in the South Pacific. People would kill to be where we are right now." I should have noted the huge red flag waving when, some weeks before, you tried to make the case that it would be fun to take some friends along on our honeymoon, and maybe even your grandmother, and we could all hang out the whole time. "Wouldn't that be fun?" Let me answer all women on the planet here and now: Hell no! That would not, by any stretch of the imagination, be fun.
It was about the same day that I realized how poor a conversationalist you were. Somehow, over the prior year, when you were f***ing me six ways from Sunday, I had overlooked and/or simply rationalized the gigantic reality that you were, quite simply, stupid as a post.
Anyway, there I was, ten grand into the most potentially romantic, amorous, and otherwise amazing bonding experience ever put together; and I had as my companion a tyrant who refused to have sex...or who offered nastily, "If you want me to pretend I like it, I will." It was then, immediately, that my eye began to wander.
She was the French girl who worked behind the counter at our hotel...an intern from some hotel school program in France. She was a little goofy looking: big, bulgy eyes, a bit of a swayback. Still, she was kind of sexy somehow. Upon checking in, I had thought she was an atypical Frenchie, who was uncharacteristically friendly. There, one evening, as I was exchanging some traveler's checks for the local currency while you laid on your already-becoming-lazy ass in the room, she asked me how my honeymoon was going. I was at a loss for words. I'm sure my facial expression told the whole story. Perceptive creature that she was, she flashed an unmistakable look, and touched my hand for much too long to be accidental. "Have you been to the spa?" she asked me. I had not. "Oh, you really must see it." She said something to her manager in French, and, in no time flat, she was kindly walking me down the darkened path to the spa. Good Lord. It was like those cheesy porn movies of old where the mailman shows up at the door to deliver a "package,", and the lady tenant's towel falls off. It was that easy. Can I just add one more ironic detail? Her name was actually Marie! How poetic is that?
Let me ask you something: Did you ever even wonder why I stopped hounding you about sex on our honeymoon? I'm sure you, in your way of rationalizing things, thought that you had won; and that I had accepted your embargo. It was, in fact, simply because that need was being met elsewhere. Two weeks into our sham of a marriage, I was getting serviced somewhere else. As unbelievable as it sounds, it was happening. I have to tell you, more pleasurable than the strange, new, clandestine sex itself, with an otherwise unremarkable woman, was the satisfaction of completely undermining your false and inflated sense of power. Let me assure you: that was just the beginning. I say "unremarkable?" Still, she was certainly one for the check list, and my how the check list has grown, and how those numbers keep moving closer to thirty.
Somehow you took on this persona of a wife in control. I listened, almost laughing out loud, as you gave relationship advice to your girlfriends, colleagues and cousins over the phone. You were so confident. Had I closed my eyes, I would have thought Oprah Winfrey was waxing philosophical in the background.
After the honeymoon, the drought continued. You grudgingly gave it up once a week for a while. Still, you had become rather critical. You called it "coaching me," or "teaching you what I like." Funny, you had never had a single complaint before we got married. It was all wild and free back then. In a matter of weeks, the occasional sex you were willing to give up became a chore for me, not even worth the effort, too humiliating and frustrating to bother with. Eventually, I lost all interest in you. When I did decide to give it a go, I found myself having to conjure up all sorts of visions of all sorts of illicit encounters in order to be able to perform for you. In contrast, I was having no difficulty whatsoever outside the marriage. Eventually, I was able to use the excitement of my extramarital affairs to conjure up some grudging wood for you.
Let me be clear, so that the memories can start to click back into place for you, I have tagged, slept with, and had trysts with almost every restaurant hostess with whom you have ever though I was too friendly. I have followed up on every counter girl, every book clerk, every sales assistant, masseuse and apprentice...even the parts girl at the car dealership, and, yes...one of your very own girlfriends...everyone who ever gave that knowing flash...that tacit go-ahead. I have gone back later. I have talked to them. I have closed the deal with more of them than I would ever have thought possible in my wildest dreams. The head I have received in elevators, in dressing rooms, in staircases, in their apartments (twenty minutes, in-and-out while out running errands); the soccer moms shopping at target...the women I have encountered buying oranges at Whole Foods, or walking their dogs. I swear to you that I have had the most exciting sex of my entire life over the past three years of marriage...and none of it has ever been with you.
Now you want a baby. Let me just say that if I were some outsider hearing this story; I would pronounce a complete idiot the man who would stupidly impregnate you. NO!!!, I'm getting out while the getting is good, baby and child support-free. It occurs to me that I may have to pay a year and a half of alimony. Let me say in advance that it will be worth every penny to be rid of you at last.
Women of the world, heed this advice. Heed it good; and don't you ever think that you and your magic vagina are the exception to these few very simple rules: Take care of your man. Treat him right. Shower him with love and respect, and yes, I mean take care of his physical needs...satisfy him sexually. Wear him out. If you want to guarantee fidelity in your marriage, there is a simple way to achieve that: Never let your husband leave the house with a single drop of semen remaining in his body. Trust me, if he is not dumping it at home, he is dumping it somewhere, unless he is a hopelessly unattractive, beat-down loser. When you use sex for power and control, you do damage that cannot be undone. When you withhold sex and affection from your husband you drive a wedge between you and your man. Not only that, you drive him elsewhere to get his needs met. It is that simple. For the record, let me assure you that the world is literally brimming with women who are very happy to be a friendly port in the long, nasty storm. There are people out there who take satisfaction in undermining your hollow little conquest of controlling the sex in your marriage.
Let me further assure you that there is no such thing as controlling your man sexually. The simple reality is that, if he has any game at all, and does not have a parasitic twin growing out of his forehead, the world is full of other offers. You can only control whether he is getting it at home or not. If you want to control your man, give him all the sex he wants. If you want to lose control of your man, go ahead and cut him off.
Let me add a further tidbit of wisdom at no extra charge. There is an old saying: Women get married hoping everything will change, men get married hoping everything will stay the same. Women, if, somewhere in the back of your mind, you are waiting for the day when your male partner is bound by contract, finances, and perhaps biology, so that you can cut off the sex and become a mini tyrant...don't get married. Join a convent. Work at an orphanage or a pre-school. Adopt a child on your own. Find some way to fulfill your maternal instincts that does not involve marrying under false pretenses. Your man would not have stuck around before the marriage if it were loveless and sexless. He also does not want a marriage that is sexless. There are a million things you can do to have your child or children without suckering in some poor dope, too naive to foresee your evil plan. Are you an honorable person? Then live honorably. Do not live in breach of the spirit of the marriage contract. Trust me, the sex you were willingly giving up as a sell job before the marriage is the only commodity you have to barter that makes it worthwhile for your man to tolerate the rest of what comes with you. Don't sucker a man in, and then expect him to comply with your skewed and artificial construct of fidelity.
If you breach the spirit of the marriage contract, you lose all trust and intimacy with your man. If man were to change his nature, our species would vanish in less than a hundred years. Cutting your man off is not only disrespectful, it is simply counterproductive. The quality of your relationship, his attachment to you, his dedication and sexual fidelity, will be determined by his feelings of access, of being welcomed and embraced, of desirability. We are who we are. We are hard-wired creatures of nature. It is biological. Deal with it, or don't; but don't' do it under false pretenses.
Let me further comment, for the reader' information, that, after the marriage, you, Pumpkin', stopped cooking. You stopped cleaning anything. You don't do dishes. You don't vacuum. You don't dust. You don't do laundry. You leave your dishes all over the house. You spend money like it is going out of style; and nothing ever makes you happy, except unlimited shopping. You infidelity manifests itself on a thousand fronts that are not sexual. Let me ask you something: what good are you to anyone? Good luck finding your next sucker, now that you're 31, fat, and much less attractive than before. By the way, I shall not miss your nagging, or your complaining, or your "making me a better man," as you like to call it. I shall not miss your car driving tips. I have purchased a new flat screen TV and home entertainment system that will neither nag me, not interrupt me while I'm watching the occasional game. I have also decided to splurge on a cleaning lady in my new place. Finally, I'll have a woman who gets things done...and the price will be known and agreed upon up-front.
So, Honey...Pumpkin...you stupid, narcissistic cow...how do you feel now? Do you feel powerful? Or is the helium beginning to seep from your balloon? How many of you women sitting are at your desk at this very moment are wondering if it is not your husband who wrote this letter? Do you know what's strange? I used to think infidelity was wrong. Now I think it is perfectly right and justified. If your husband is out fooling around; it's because you are not doing your job. Not only is he justified in fooling around, you have it coming. You deserve it. One breach of contract deserves another. Men of the world, a woman who changes the terms of your sexual arrangement after marriage deserves infidelity. She plays a two-edged game...violating her implied duty as a wife, yet still holding you to the letter of your contract. It is the oldest, cheapest manipulation in the book: and, very likely, the root cause of the oldest profession in the world.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines infidelity as "unfaithfulness or disloyalty to a person," among other things. Let me redefine it for you. Fidelity is living and being, on a daily basis, contract or no contract, the person you have represented yourself to be. In business contracts, we use the term "good faith" a lot to describe the expectation that both parties of a contract will behave in such a manner as will benefit both parties as much as possible. For instance, if a record company signs a contract with an artist, both parties agree to act "in good faith," meaning that the company will do everything in its power to represent the artist favorably, and sell records. The artist, in return, agrees to put their best efforts into their records, their performances, and whatever promotional activities may be expected. Without the expectation of that somewhat ambiguous "good faith," either party could choose, at any time, to not honor the spirit of the contract, thereby creating disadvantage for both parties. "Good faith," is an absolute must.
A marriage is the same. Perhaps the "faithful" part of the vows goes deeper than sexual fidelity. I believe it means you put your best foot forward, always, and in all things. I believe it means that you do not allow yourself to become a fat lazy, nagging, complaining toddler who doesn't want to have sex with your partner any more. Any deviation from whom you represented yourself to be before, and upon signing the contract is, in fact, a failure to meet the implied "good faith" of the marriage contract. Any false personality you create in order to bag your partner, and then shed as soon as you're married is a misrepresentation. We need to stop defining infidelity as sexual only. Infidelity has many faces, and many manifestations. When you stop trying as a partner, or decide to renege on what you previously offered, you are in fact being disloyal, unfaithful and false to your partner. The idea that unfaithfulness is physical, via the sex act only is a semantic game we need to no longer play. Husbands need to start calling their wives on it. I would go as far as to say that prenups need to include specifics as to sexual frequency, sexual behavior, including attitude, and division of household chores.
After all has been said and done, it may surprise you all to know that, in my humble opinion, most men don't fool around because of the sex itself, it's really about the validation, the feelings of being wanted and valued. Women, if you want your man to seek his validation elsewhere, then you know exactly what to do. Cut him off.
Men, make it part of your own personal credo to fool around if your wife cuts you off. Let all women know that they have it coming. Let them know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the minute they cut you off, protest, make a fuss, or become grudging about sex, you will walk out that front door and get it somewhere else.
Feel free to check out my blog:Click ME!
This letter is a work of art. Really briillant story and causionary tale for men out there. every person on this site would appreciate this letter it is at the crux of what many of us hear feel and believe to be true about western women and why we seek greener pastures abroad.
Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback. (The Dude)
the dude abides
I have my suspicions that the letter is not genuine. If it is, it may well be, it's from a man who he himself, as he admits, started his relationship on the wrong premises. You can't marry only on the grounds of free, unlimited access to a p***y. Whatever his Pumpkin ended up being, he was definitely the co-author of his first mistake, bigger than all the subsequent ones from her.
Once again, I'm not taking the woman's defence. Just trying to be objective and looking at the simple fact that it's both party's responsibility to ensure that you're with your other half for a whole set of good reasons, including a few of those, characterial and intellectual in nature, that will give the best chance of the relationship surviving the first few years.
You are so naive...women only want man-slaves and they will fake anything they think they need to fake until they get the deal closed with kids....Jennifer even did a degree and got a job and worked and made much of how much she wanted a "career" and to not be a SAHM......so we bought a house that would take TWO incomes to pay for so that we could live in a better area of Sydney......
And guess what....as soon as she got the second baby she wanted and was advised against any further pregnancies she quit work and told me paying for the family was MY problem and she NEVER worked a day again in our marriage....NOT ONE...not EVEN in our own company. And then she got 95% in divorce and EVERYONE thinks this is ok when it was clearly a crime.
And I knew her since she was 12 and her parents condoned these actions.
Get with the program dude....this is ALL western women and ALL their fathers are QUITE HAPPY to see women do this sort of shit.
Boycotting them and having nothing to do with them is the ONLY way to deal with them until women are held responsible for the contracts.....something NO WESTERN WOMAN is prepared to speak out in support of by the way.
Feel free to check out my blog:Click ME!
Mate, I do feel sorry about our personal situation. Believe me I do, especially after reading your eBook.
This though doesn't entitle you to generalise what happened to you, or the author of the Irvine letter, to the entire, broad category of women, Anglo, or Western women.
You say your wife stopped working as soon as she had your second baby, I would imagine a few good years into your marriage. I don't know what was in her mind. A don't think a serious, intelligent and honest woman would want to pursue an agenda that includes having not one, but two babies, and then stop working, all the more after committing on an expensive mortgage. Perhaps she really was a calculating bitch as you portray her, perhaps she got lazy after her second pregnancy, or perhaps she had always her best interest at your expense in mind, and nothing else.
All I can say with absolute certainty is, not all women are that bad. They're imperfect beings, like men are, they make mistakes and probably different classes of mistakes, driven by their menstrual cycle, mood, impulsion, god knows what else. Yet, a woman who is manipulative and selfish gives away so many signals from the moment you start dating her, through your marriage. If in all those years you just couldn't realise that something was fishy or plain wrong about her, well, then she's either a solid candidate for another Aussie Oscar after Nicole Kidman, or perhaps you got too distracted by your life and job (you mention you used to spend long periods of time abroad, etc.) to catch those signals.
Vice-versa, a young woman with some good values, a good heart, an intelligence, some long lasting career ambitions, will be herself and define her impression of herself in your mind bit by bit, day by day. That's what happened to me and my ex-girlfriends and more recently my wife. A woman's acts, much more than her words, are those that will tell you what to make of her you, when it comes to those all important decisions, like whether to take her as a fling, or embark into a serious relationship...or marriage.
If you allow me, another big mistake you made was to immediately take your personal situation as a worldwide crusade of male liberation, and labelling men and women who were unwilling to jump on your bandwagon of being feminist, manginas, conspiracy agents. Well, reality is a lot simpler than that. People have their own lives and problems to face. If they don't think something good with come out of their helping efforts, they would rather refrain. If they don't strongly believe their domestic situation with their wives is such a bad deal, they won't even try to help themselves.
This letter can be reduced to one sentence such as "Die you using b!tch" Now all other men with horrible wives need to leave them and never pay taxes or child support again - fake a nervous breakdown if necessary.
"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." Cato the Elder
Young women, living at home with their parents, always use freedom to spend the full night with you as emotional pressure to marry. They hate getting up in the middle of the night, driving so far, blah blah. So most young men marrying young women for the first time (if she lives with her parents ) do indeed do it solely for free, unlimited access to naked privacy. Period.
Your point about intellectual compatibility is glib Monday Morning quarterbacking . Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Most young men do not think in terms of compatibility, they are totally feeling the attraction, which is natural. Character? Intellect? Hah. Those are attractive qualities, but are no insurance. I speak from experience.
I agree with you on this, although this is a different story, though. A young couple may decide to start living together for a host of reasons. Sure, a man will have easier access to a naked lady in bed every night, but at the cost of a massive loss of privacy, which for a young man in his twenties/early thirties is extremely important. I lived together with a couple of ex-gf here in London during my student years, and for as much as I liked to cuddle them in the morning and before sleeping, and have sex with them 2 or 3 times a day, they did tend to colonise the living space with their endless array of cosmetic widgets, clothes, panties, etc. Then at some point I would realise the real reason for sharing roof: a test drive of a steady relationship with them.
When all you spend with your girl is quality time, the well-shaven, flashy dress Saturday night dates, it might be difficult for either party to understand who the other truly is. One must gather a sense of living a normal, routine, even boring life with their partners. Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but to me being able to live together with your missus for a few weeks, or months, without major pain is surely a sign that there is more ground than just the urge for occasional sex, to spend a life together. Other factors come in: how many good conversations can start up over dinner, how patient and compassionate one is towards the other's daily problems, small and large. The relationship takes off its initial stage of exchange of sexual services and flies into the more profound and serious territory of love, mutual respect and harmony.
Anywoo, this is not what I meant with my reply. I was simply stating that both boy and girl have to feel responsible with showing a veritable version of themselves, if they want to have a durable relationship, get marry and stay married. Impressing each other is perfect for the first few weeks or months, and admittingly women know how to play their game infinitely better than their male counterparts. This makes it harder for the man to spot whether a woman is only interested in the man as a prodrome to marriage, after which she will turn into the kind of manipulative bitch many of you moan about, or she has genuine feelings and the honest intention to pour some effort in ensuring the relationship can go on and mature.
The hardest part is on the man's shoulder, I admit it. But then this is perhaps precisely why society has never attached such a stigma on men who have a few relationships before settling: a man doesn't receive the amount of social conditioning towards his role of a husband and father, unlike girls who are given a doll and a plastic oven as their first present, so he needs to explore more, triangulate his preferences and learn about his needs and desires. I remember writing about this elsewhere. Without this practice, men become easy preys of the skunks out there. And then they get burned and divorce and come to forums like these to complain that the entire femaledom is one evil kingdom devoted to world destruction.
Most young men who think in terms of physical attraction are young men on high testosterone. The moment sex is finished, our human part should wake up and at least wonder: what do I do with this cutie in the sack? Is she worth another week or mindless sex, or I had a few signs that she's more than a hot body, and perhaps we could well try something more serious? And obviously, if a good one, the woman will have similar thoughts, albeit perhaps more biased towards practical aspects (eg. social success, money etc.).
Well, obviously being compatible on intellectual grounds, just like physical attraction, is no insurance of a good relationship. But it's always good to try and maximise chances, isn't it? Otherwise we can just carry on having fun in a loveless, mindless way, and our species will be extinct within a century.
Interesting. I certainly see your point.
To me, intelligence is easy to find, I really don't talk to stupid girls except hi and bye etc. So I guess I do automatically screen for that, along with looks. But for me the key thing to look for, even in girls with intelligence, character and looks, is sweet submissiveness. That's the quality that allows two people to coexist in a small space, like a sailboat.
And agree I do with you, my dear friend. Yet, there's one thing that is even better than sweet submissiveness on the woman's side, and it's love on both sides, and respect for each other's individuality. These two are the only attributes in a relationship that will make either party submissive to the other when necessary, sometimes with some dialectics, some other times without a single word being uttered. The kind of one-way submissiveness you're referring at could have worked well when women had no choice than remaining silent and submissive (as epitomised by Kate Bush's wonderful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEHqPCA_lzQ&feature=related). Nowadays, when women are just as smart and wise as men, listening to them and their reasons may just be a good thing to do.
Here you go again m8, always the guy to try and balance things. Whenever someone expresses a genuine and honest feeling. Here you go again trying to find a way to minimize it. If I say that chocolate ice cream sucks for me. Your response is to tell me how not all ice cream is bad. I use to know a kid in middle school just like you. Always trying to balance thins as opposed to allowing someone the right to their opinion. You just cant let shit be m8. You have to get all into it. The understatement shall always be to invalidate someone else's beliefs. Its an old liberal trick, old skool liberal arts college bullshite with no anchor in the real world. All you do is defend women and point out what "mistakes" men make when they let their emotions out. Why are you even on this site? A man can generalize all the hell he wants. Who the hell are you to dictate to someone else what his entitlements are? A Man can say whatever the hell he wants. No one appointed you the voice of reason!
Now you're saying it, I do feel my entire life invalidated. Scary.
I have no entitlement to be the voice of reason (as there's even a member with that nick, already!) and have never wanted to be, but I am certainly entitled to my opinion, so long society still allows me to express it without fear of imprisonment.
You have got the analogy the other way around actually. It's you who are saying "chocolate ice cream sucks for me, therefore all ice cream must be bad". Anybody with a shred of logical thinking would naturally want to point out that this a gross generalisation based on your own experience. This is not "liberal" thinking mate, this is common sense. Some of you clearly have interpreted your rejections, failures, divorce as the proof that all women are evil. Some of you blame modern society or some feminist conspiracy if certain hot women are not interested in them, without wondering whether it's something in their approach to dating and their views on femaledom and society at large, that's part of the problem. Some others will happily label young women shameless sluts for engaging in behaviours that, for reprehensible as they are, are common to an entire spectrum of men and women.
The fact that the "bitter and regretful at home" like you are well represented on this forum doesn't detract from many others who are or have been truly "happier abroad" and can dispense useful insight, information and advice on foreign cultures, being an expat, meeting a foreign woman, etc. I'm on this site for these kinds of people. You may have also noticed that they are usually the ones with more balanced views, more positive and less generalising messages to give, and probably less interested in joining sterile rants.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Moretorque, Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests