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Let me start this off. I believe it was around 1998? I'm an average joe -- yet in the 80's and early 90's, perhaps till about 1997......i always had numerous women liking me -- and although i'm a ONE ( maybe a two!) --i had nine's interested in me. Since i've been in the acting biz since childhood -- i had models and actresses totally interested in me - .... We are now in 2012 -- i think i'm alot better looking now -- but i couldn't get a date here in podunk if my life depended on it. I'm moving soon. Sooooooo. What year do you think women CHANGED and most men became not good enough????????? and why do you say that year???????? Thanks. Again I'd say around 1997. Why? Media Media and Media.
It wasn't like this in the 1980's and early 1990's -- that's for sure bud.
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I'd eye balled it at around the 3-4 year mark of Madonna's 'Like A Prayer' CD so that's around '92-'93. I guess by '97, the door was fully sealed.
What Madonna was, was the anti-thesis of a Deborah Harry or an Ann Wilson (of the band Heart). She was the average talent, social climbing skank, who became the role model for the modern American woman. Realize, in order to be Deb or Ann, one needs either some serious vocals or song writing talent [ Deb Harry had 'em both], in addition to being pretty/cute. Most, I'd say 95% of AWs, can't rise to the challenge of being a true musical talent or virtuoso in any way. Just look at all of Cindy Crawford's botched singing or acting stints throughout her days as a Revlon girl. All Cindy ever was, was a pretty cover girl.
Madonna, however, flipped the parameters upside down. She made it all about 'shock & awe' and posed herself as a tease/bimbo/slut. Now, that's something any average talent skank AW could do, to garner attention. Remember her *gal pal* advise in "Express Yourself" (also from the 'Like A Prayer' CD) ... `What you need is a big strong hand. To lift you to your higher ground. Make you feel like a queen on a throne. Make him love you till you can't come down`. Well, then that music video had a bunch of laboring/slave men, whose role it was to pleasure her at her beckoned call. It really sent out the message, all the way back in '89. Now that it's 2012, why should anything be a surprise anymore?
I couldn't pinpoint an exact year, but from my experience I'd say it was somewhere in the early to mid 2000's.
WHY? I'm not 100% sure. I think it might have a lot to do with cellphone technology, and it has got even worse with the advent of Facebook. But I think there is more to it than that, and media definitely has a lot to do with it.
Interesting. What artists do you think directly followed her?They had bands like the Spice Girls in 1997 chanting messages of female superiority and bad attitudes.
Now you have artists like Beyonce singing stuff like "We run this mutherfucking worldâ€¦girls."
No wonder western females are so narcissistic.
I think it was already over by them. At that point in time, everyone was a diva or 'soon to be one'. The bimbo triumvirate of Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, and Lindsay Lohan were enacted with new members, coming and going, as time went by ... ala Kardashians and Snooki & NJ sluts. This circus is now fixture in society.
Near as I can tell, it happened at different times and places and varied by ethnic group.
Some of this I noticed over 20 years ago.
не поглеждай назад.
"Even an American judge is unlikely to award child support for imputed children." - FredOnEverything
Here's the thing ... no one really followed Madonna, in terms of the total capture of the pop music panorama because for the most part, the music industry went downhill, pretty much in parallel to when Madonna slid past her peak, 'Ray Of Light', '98.
Thus, the industry posted anything with T&As: Britney, Aguilera, J Lo, Beyonce, etc, as a plausible Madonna successor with limited enduring success, outside of today's Lady Gaga.
Unlike her idiot descendants, Madonna's a complete self-standing industry with her staff of songwriters, choreographers, and PR agents. She's able to still retain a lot of the gala effect, despite being an old hag. It's yet to be seen if any of the other divas can really follow, as I believe they rely too much of their agents for their present day success.
In other words, today, we don't have musicians, we have skanks who shake their @sses for the camera. Madonna can be thanked, as their fairy godmother.
BTW, don't get me wrong, I don't think Madonna's a terrible artist by any stretch of the imagination. She does put in a lot of work and she did put out a good product (at least until 1998), albeit with a huge entourage of company people. She is an industry in herself.
But on the flipside, I don't believe she's a great talent in the likes of a Stevie Nicks, Joan Jett, Chrissie Hynde, Deborah Harry, Tina Turner, Ann Wilson, or Linda Ronstadt. Those were her predecessors and they succeeded in much more organic manner and had the real "gal power", which is intrinsic in the fact that they had talent and put it to use without making their stage/touring persona about overwhelming others (esp men).
Gosh man. AWESOME INSIGHTS. keep it going. So right about madonna. never thought of that.
why is it every women thinks she's a singer now-a-days, or an actress, or reality media slut or gosh knows what?? i was watching family ties and the women were still feminine and kind back in 1984.
It wasn't like this in the 1980's and early 1990's -- that's for sure bud.
IMO, Madonna (key moniker: The Material Girl) made it possible for every woman to be a diva.
When I was a little kid, my sister and others, looked up to Debbie Harry as America's top classic beauty mixed with eclectic talent. And in every way, they were right, Debbie Harry was both a beautiful woman and an innovator in music, in terms of blending rock, punk, new wave, hip pop, and disco. But here's the thing ... when an AW actually goes to sing or looks in the mirror ... she can easily tell that there's no way in hell that she can compete against Ms Harry. Thus, there's a gap between their aspirations and reality, staring at 'em in the mirror.
Madonna then decided to change that whole paradigm. Madonna basically told the young females that, hey, you don't need to look like Faye Dunaway/Michelle Pfeiffer and sing like Diana Ross/Linda Ronstadt ... all you need to do is dance like a stripper, tease men with nipples/crotch shots, and then, deny 'em the pleasure of your body, and then the world will be your oyster. Well ... isn't that easier than taking vocal lessons or learning how to play guitar? So at once, AWs warmed up to the Material Girl way, the path of the skank. Well, it's 2012 and the results are apparent.
I agree - I really noticed the change in girls around 1991 when Madonna sang "don't go for 2nd best baby" - also women's roles on TV/Films changed into smirking prostitutes e.g. Sharon Stone in total recall, basic instinct...
"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." Cato the Elder
I noticed the culture and society changing quite a bit in this country starting in the 80s (though it was only slightly noticeable then) and got progressively worse in the 90s. By the 2000s after 9/11, things went downhill in this country really fast!
I've recently talked to an 60 year old man about this, and he stated that women really started to change during the late 60s and especially in the 70s, when the Women's Lib movement really got going; after that, there was no hope of ever turning back for men.
I agree, from the people I have talked to who were brought up in the 50's and 60's, they tell me that women's lib in the late 60's and into the 70's is when women changed in america.
Before women's lib, women in the US were actually feminine, nice, easy to meet and didn't hate men. All that changed after the feminist movement gained a foothold in the US starting in the late 1960's.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"
"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."