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Stupid career advice given to young men

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Postby ladislav » October 14th, 2012, 6:40 am

But by the time most teenaged guys can get into the industry there probably won't be any jobs. Look at the situation with mining in Australia now - market saturated, downturn, thousands laid off, mines being sold to foreign companies who hire their own nationals as workers, skanks being hired to drive dump trucks etc. Markets don't stay short of workers for long. The whole logic behind advising people to go into jobs that are useful and currently in demand makes no sense.


This is why they need to have one major profession and some other skill that can hedge them in such times. Something that they can fall back on and that is always in demand. Say, a BS in engineering but also some diploma in baking. Or a CELTA certificate.
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Postby S_Parc » October 14th, 2012, 7:06 am

There's a lot of career advise out there but if you want my opinion, here's my take.

If you're interested in engineering a/o business type of careers, you'll need to be able to sell yourself, to survive long term. Thus, having that BS in engineering (even when it's MIT, CalTech, or Carnegie-Mellon) or that MBA from NYC or Columbia, may not suffice in itself. Yes, you may find a first job, from your school's career center but that's where it ends. I live in MA and even here, numerous graduates from MIT and like schools, don't ALL succeed in big ways. Yes, many find jobs in some company, started by alumni, but a lot of careers go nowhere from there. Thus, don't get straight A's in high school, attend a top engineering program, and then work for $55K-$75K for life.

If you're basically book smart, I recommend pharmacy (PharmD) or medical school (MD). Those two health care areas guarantee, by virtue of your test testing skills ALONE, that you'll be employed and for most of your life. That's the power of being in highly licensed fields. If you're a notch below the aforementioned, look at PA, Nursing, or Physical Therapy.
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Postby Cornfed » October 14th, 2012, 7:28 am

ladislav wrote: This is why they need to have one major profession and some other skill that can hedge them in such times. Something that they can fall back on and that is always in demand. Say, a BS in engineering but also some diploma in baking. Or a CELTA certificate.

The thing is that there is nothing that is always in demand any more in terms of there being a shortage of workers. It is quite likely that there would not be any jobs in either field unless you had family connections in one. CELTA seems to be of limited value since a huge army of freshly minted unemployed graduates hit the ESL market around the beginning of '10.
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Postby momopi » October 14th, 2012, 8:07 am

Cornfed wrote:Yes, men who got into the industry in the past are making good money right now. But by the time most teenaged guys can get into the industry there probably won't be any jobs. Look at the situation with mining in Australia now - market saturated, downturn, thousands laid off, mines being sold to foreign companies who hire their own nationals as workers, skanks being hired to drive dump trucks etc. Markets don't stay short of workers for long. The whole logic behind advising people to go into jobs that are useful and currently in demand makes no sense.


1. See color-coded list here (look at estimated start year and status columns):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_ ... _companies

2. For teenage guys in Australia with little or no work experience:
https://www.whpcanada.org.au/
https://www.whpcanada.org.au/choose_you ... ence.shtml
http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working ... -overseas/

3. If you want jobs that pay good money, you go where the good paying jobs are. College kids from Taiwan go to Australia for good paying jobs (relative to their earnings in TW):
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=15695

Let me remind everyone again that the reason why certain jobs and locations pay good money is because it's hard work in hard environments.

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Last edited by momopi on October 14th, 2012, 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ladislav » October 14th, 2012, 8:13 am

CELTA people will always find work only it may not be a cushy job in the UAE. They may have to end up in a small town in China or Korea or a desert outpost in Saudi where no one wants to go. Saudi has 27 million people and they are desperate for teachers and China will not stop learning English for decades to come. Then, as these guys get more experience and an MA. They will be able to move on to bigger and better things. So, as momopi says, there are jobs out there but they will be in shytholes which is not such a bad thing- good for character building. I spent most of my working career in such places interspersed with occasional cushy positions and it has been a life of adventure. So, I guess these unemployed guys will just have to learn to dream a different dream.
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Postby Cornfed » October 14th, 2012, 9:01 am

ladislav wrote:CELTA people will always find work only it may not be a cushy job in the UAE. They may have to end up in a small town in China or Korea or a desert outpost in Saudi where no one wants to go. Saudi has 27 million people and they are desperate for teachers and China will not stop learning English for decades to come. Then, as these guys get more experience and an MA. They will be able to move on to bigger and better things. So, as momopi says, there are jobs out there but they will be in shytholes which is not such a bad thing- good for character building. I spent most of my working career in such places interspersed with occasional cushy positions and it has been a life of adventure. So, I guess these unemployed guys will just have to learn to dream a different dream.

This is another odd factor I notice. Most people seem to think things are basically the same as when they were 20 and will play out exactly the same as they have in the past. Jobs even in godforsaken ratholes in Korea are at a premium given that the number of E2 positions has been reduced by a third since 08 whereas the number of applicants has apparently increased ten fold. Of course even if you were hired they can fire you at the drop of a hat, so you might actually lose money on the deal. It would still be possible to find a job in China, but it seems a little optimistic to think it would lead to anything other than more low-paid crappy jobs in China if you were lucky. Probably a dead end as the middle kingdom life people suggest. And that is judging things as they are now. Who would have thought as recently as mid 08 that things would get so bad so fast? From the point of view of today's teenagers, they would want to have a degree of some sort to teach English, which wouldn't really be worth bothering with IMO.
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Postby Cornfed » October 14th, 2012, 9:10 am

momopi wrote: 1. See color-coded list here (look at estimated start year and status columns):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_ ... _companies

2. For teenage guys in Australia with little or no work experience:
https://www.whpcanada.org.au/
https://www.whpcanada.org.au/choose_you ... ence.shtml
http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working ... -overseas/

I'm not sure what the point of this is. Obviously there are always going to be jobs listed right up until the economy collapses. The issue is whether the average guy can reasonably expect to get one given the number of applicants and the hiring criteria, and if qualifications are required, whether the jobs will still exist once such qualifications are earned.

Let me remind everyone again that the reason why certain jobs and locations pay good money is because it's hard work in hard environments.

Workers are paid either based on their economic value or what the powers that be want them to have, period. Plenty of people in the world do extremely hard, unpleasant and dangerous work for peanuts, just as there are plenty of useless c**ts paid a fortune to sit in air-conditioned offices doing online shopping and updating their facebook page.
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Postby momopi » October 16th, 2012, 3:45 pm

Cornfed wrote:I'm not sure what the point of this is. Obviously there are always going to be jobs listed right up until the economy collapses. The issue is whether the average guy can reasonably expect to get one given the number of applicants and the hiring criteria, and if qualifications are required, whether the jobs will still exist once such qualifications are earned.


1. If you're actually worried about a total economic collapse, then the advice that you'd give to people is to stock up on hand tools, boxes of nails, "Mountain House" #10 cans (30 year shelf life), guns, ammo, and various other survival and trading goods.

2. If you want to make more money than the average guy, then you need to put in more work than the average guy. What the average person putting in average effort can reasonably expect, is to be reasonably mediocre.
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Postby Cornfed » October 16th, 2012, 7:58 pm

momopi wrote:1. If you're actually worried about a total economic collapse, then the advice that you'd give to people is to stock up on hand tools, boxes of nails, "Mountain House" #10 cans (30 year shelf life), guns, ammo, and various other survival and trading goods.

Yes, that along with being fit and strong, gaining the skills to use such items and living in a small town near forested mountains is good advice. Since you might have to abandon your stored supplies, you would also want to develop a propensity to take what you need from others. For example, if you live in the West there are probably a lot of fat women around selfishly hoarding calories in their repellant bodies. They may be third class human beings, but in famine conditions they represent a first class source of calories on the hoof.

2. If you want to make more money than the average guy, then you need to put in more work than the average guy. What the average person putting in average effort can reasonably expect, is to be reasonably mediocre.

Historically both how hard you have to work and what you get in return were both determined by your place in a hierarchy, with those on the bottom having to work the hardest for the least reward. The situation is returning to this standard for young men in the West, assuming it ever departed from it. However, it is likely to be a moot point for most of them as there will be no jobs anyway.
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Postby terminator » October 16th, 2012, 10:39 pm

Andrewww wrote:So what advice would you give ?

As someone who recently finished university I can't tell you how pissed off I was. After reading countless artifles like: the baby boomers are retiring, shortage of jobs everywhere etc etc I woke up one day and realized it's just bullshit.

Employers complain that they can't find specialized workforce but:

1. They're not willing to train new people like university graduates.
2. They expect you to work for crappy wages while elderly people in the company get paid 3-4 times as much and are usually less productive.
3. Vacation time is seen as some sort of bonus.
4. They prefer pushing their employees to the limit with overtime instead of hiring new people.

Also some majors are just useless: philosophy, psychology (full of skanks who become escorts), history, social sciences etc.

The only areas that work are accounting & finance, IT, architecture and to some degree engineering. Also, any health related career is a sure way to become successful if you have patience.


Excellent advice! What you are alluding to is it's a waste of time going to College unless you study something that will give you a job like medicine. The wages paid to almost all young people are beyond crappy - you're not even able to pay rent on them!
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Postby terminator » October 16th, 2012, 10:43 pm

ladislav wrote:CELTA people will always find work only it may not be a cushy job in the UAE. They may have to end up in a small town in China or Korea or a desert outpost in Saudi where no one wants to go. Saudi has 27 million people and they are desperate for teachers and China will not stop learning English for decades to come. Then, as these guys get more experience and an MA. They will be able to move on to bigger and better things. So, as momopi says, there are jobs out there but they will be in shytholes which is not such a bad thing- good for character building. I spent most of my working career in such places interspersed with occasional cushy positions and it has been a life of adventure. So, I guess these unemployed guys will just have to learn to dream a different dream.


Yes, living in shytholes should enable you to quickly save money as there's absolutely nothing to spend money on like movies, concerts, etc. So guys should plan to stay in a hole for a few years and then move somewhere decent with their savings - then meet a wife and she'll take all your money one way or another - LOL!
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Postby Cornfed » October 18th, 2012, 5:07 am

terminator wrote:
Andrewww wrote: The only areas that work are accounting & finance, IT, architecture and to some degree engineering. Also, any health related career is a sure way to become successful if you have patience.


Excellent advice! What you are alluding to is it's a waste of time going to College unless you study something that will give you a job like medicine. The wages paid to almost all young people are beyond crappy - you're not even able to pay rent on them!

More postdictions. There is now unemployment among qualified doctors in China, parts of America and elsewhere. Who is to say this won't be the norm worldwide by the time today's first year med students qualify? At this point any professions that require years of university education could profitably be dismissed from consideration.
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