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[publicduende]

Can anyone tell me why Feminism has gotten so out of control here in the USA and not places like Italy. What in gods name is driving it?

Let me put it this way. The more a woman knows how to treat herself, the more men learn how to treat a woman.

[publicduende]

There's my problem, I know about 8 words of Italian

Yeah but do you at least know the hand gestures?

[eurobrat]

Thanks guy's for the compliment. I'm looking into other things you can do with the citizenship like how much easier it is to start a business over there. From my understanding the IT business is still critically in need over in Italy. I also found out that there's a good sized tax break for buying your first property over in Italy???

I'm going to be over there for Xmas and the New Year. I already opened an Italian Paypal account and I'm looking at opening a bank account while I'm over there. Publicduende do you have any recommendations as to which bank is the best over in Italy?

Ouch, sour topic. Italy has one of world's worst environments to open a new business and have it flourish. If you are planning to freelance, say, as an English teacher, your best bet is to open what we call "Partita IVA", which means you have an accounting book where you can post your invoices, claim expenses and pay (a lot of) taxes. Don't even think of setting up a limited company (called "Srl"), it takes a very long time and if you're not successful you may end up paying a lot in fixed and accounting costs. I don't have names as I don't know where you'll be living, but mail me when you're there and I can find you a good accountant ("commercialista") there.

As for banks, as I believe you won't have lots of sophisticated needs when starting out in Italy, there are quite a few zero-fee accounts available. One of the better ones is this one: http://www.youbanking.it/
The provider is usually a company that operates through a banking network. Sometimes the network is small, which means you might not live close enough to a bank branch where you can speak to a real person, so you'll be limited to online and phone customer service. This YouBanking seems to be linked to the Banco Popolare network, which is a federation of small regional banks and have quite a few branches all over Italy.

Another thing to bear in mind, our debit cards, called BancoMat, are not Visa cards. They belong to a national network called Maestro which allows your to withdraw money within Italy and in some parts of Slovenia, Austria, Switzerland and France. If you want to access your Italian money from abroad, you'd be better off asking for an additional debit card, usually a MasterCard (expenses are lower) or a Visa.

All the things above are only recommended if you're planning to spend at least 6 months, if not several years, in Italy. I doubt an Italian bank would let you open an account without proof that you intend to stay in Italy for a reasonable period (a few months, at least). Sorry if this sounds disappointing, but as a country we're sadly far, very far from being business friendly.

Yes there is a tax break and a reduced interest rate when buying your first property, however it's getting the mortgage itself that can be excruciating, especially if you can't show a proof of stable income. It's quite notorious that most temp workers (we call them "precari", or "unstable") on 600/1000 Euro net per month can only dream of buying a house.

Thanks publicduende!

See this is the shit I join websites like this for. I understand Italy isn't business friendly, but don't a lot of business stay off the grid and not pay any taxes?

I will be able to show proof of a stable income, the tax break and reduced interest rate would be great to find a dumpy little 2 bedroom 2 bath condo/apartment that I can renovate and turn into another income property like the one I have in Kansas. I know I can do it if I have already done it in Kansas and I have found cheap properties in great parts of Italy that would make excellent flips for rentals

[publicduende]

Thanks publicduende!

See this is the shit I join websites like this for. I understand Italy isn't business friendly, but don't a lot of business stay off the grid and not pay any taxes?

I will be able to show proof of a stable income, the tax break and reduced interest rate would be great to find a dumpy little 2 bedroom 2 bath condo/apartment that I can renovate and turn into another income property like the one I have in Kansas. I know I can do it if I have already done it in Kansas and I have found cheap properties in great parts of Italy that would make excellent flips for rentals

It is definitely possible to "stay off the grid", yet it depends what's the nature of your job and your clients. If you're living off English tuitions, nobody is forcing you to invoice the time you charge them. You just pocket the money and walk away. Unlike the UK and perhaps the US, immigration enforcement here is not done on a speculative or investigative basis. This explains why there are so many illegal immigrants in Italy, they have no fear of being deported and indeed hardly get deported, even after they commit very serious crimes. On the flip side, if you want to offer reputable services to other companies as opposed to private individuals, a "partita IVA" or even your own business are recommended. And if you're looking for full-time employment in a reputable company, you need to have all of your papers in order. As a Italian passport holder, you're an Italian citizen, yet still subject to the same kind of paperwork ordeal as any other Italian

I had a quick look on a website, so yes, the requirements for you to receive tax benefits when buying your first property in Italy are basically two:
1) the house to buy is not considered a "luxury estate": smaller than 160 square meters and not having particularly expensive fixtures (silk wallpaper, mature oak framed doors, etc.);
2) you have to be living in the town where you buy the estate, or plan to settle within 18 months from date of purchase.

Requirement 1) is pretty easy - a house is either luxury or not, based on this narrow definition. As for 2), you could technically file paperwork declaring you will be moving to that town and then never do. The only problem is, residency checks are usually done by inspectors appointed by the council, so especially if the town is small and people gossip a lot, it only takes one bastard who doesn't like you having a property there, and one anonymous call, and the inspectors could break into your house and stir up shit to your intermediary, or even your tenants. I would say it's definitely possible to get the tax benefits, as long as you know somebody who knows the process. This somebody is, for all Italians, a notary public. Some large notary public studies probably have experience with foreigners buying their first house in Italy. See for example: http://www.notaiosibille.it/the-notary- ... igners.php

[Exod]

Can anyone tell me why Feminism has gotten so out of control here in the USA and not places like Italy. What in gods name is driving it?

Never found a convincing explanation, but I'd say it's partly cultural and partly practical.

Culturally you have the Catholic church, which is very strong in Italy, a generally relaxed view toward sex and a tendency toward machismo. And MOMS. Especially moms. I mean, men often don't leave the house until their late 30s. Sometimes never. Generations often live under the same roof, or almost. Women are simply not interested in souring the relationship with their sons, fathers, husbands. It's impossible even to conceive.

That doesn't mean that women are easy and affable, or else I wouldn't be here. I suspect we're underrepresented in the sphere because most aren't really fluent in English. Most of my friends and acquaintances don't really respect Italian women much anymore.

Now, as a practical matter, Italy cannot afford Feminism. First of all, it would require a massive change in terms of laws. Good luck with that, Italian bureaucracy is one the stuffiest, most labyrinthine around. Even if there were a political will, it would require years and years. Secondly, Feminism entails costs that the State simply cannot support and resources that simply aren't there. Can you imagine the police having to investigate fake-rape cases like in Sweden while there's the Mafia literally drive-by shooting people in Naples? Heck, they would charge the woman for obstruction of justice and wasting police time. And the higher societal cost of having most women working out of the house.

And so on...

Granted, Feminism-wise Italy is perhaps one of the safest countries in Western Europe, along with Spain, Greece. But it's still Western women, influenced by Western Liberal thought. They expect a power dynamic based on equality, and in the current post-Berlusconi era Feminists are increasingly more shrill. A Brazil-like 180° turn toward Feminism isn't completely off the table, in my opinion. But it's improbable.

The new generations have been brought up in times of relative plenty with permissive parents of liberal persuasion.
Just because they don't assrape you in divorce court or strut around companies and schools and places like they own and run them, it doesn't mean they're affable or "nice".

In fact, they tend to be snotty, bourgeois and cliquish. They're also incredible teases, stringing guys along and leading them by the nose for as long as possible, then giving the good old "let's be friends" speech. They're very status-oriented and often won't even take you seriously unless you went to university, have good prospects, and so on. I mean, not even giving you a tiny-weeny chance. You're a loser and a creep, get out. An alarming number of them embraced materialism so fully, they actually embraced their objectification and started doing stuff like selling sex at 12 just to top up their cellphone.

Again, my experience. (I'm difficult to please, I'll admit). NAWALT, or better, Not All Italian Women Are Like That and so on. It's trends. It's certainly easier to find a feminine woman in Italy than, say, Sweden. Probably the USA, if this forum is anything to go by. But it's probably even easier in Russia, Ukraine or China, etc... although I can support that statement with personal experience only as far as Ukraine is concerned.

[WPO]

Tell me eurobrat:
1. how long did it take to file for citizenship?
2. Was it complicated, easy or pain in the ass?
3. Who did you have to speak to? What internet site?
4. Is it set up that it's vitually impossible? I have germany in my sights and just take advantage of the EU.

[eurobrat]

1. how long did it take to file for citizenship?
4 Years.

2. Was it complicated, easy or pain in the a**?

Pain in the ass, I had to retrieve birth and marriage certificates from a town called Ragusa where my great grandparents where born. I also had to pay a translator $1500 to translate all the documents needed for citizenship including my parents lengthy divorce papers.

3. Who did you have to speak to? What internet site?
Italian Consulate, they have them in every major city.

4. Is it set up that it's vitually impossible? I have Germany in my sights and just take advantage of the EU.
Germany from what I understand is a different monster when it comes to dual-citizenship.

[Jester]

Pain in the a**, I had to retrieve birth and marriage certificates from a town called Ragusa where my great grandparents where born. I also had to pay a translator $1500 to translate all the documents needed for citizenship including my parents lengthy divorce papers.

+1 for persistence!!

[eurobrat]

It's not impossible though, yes Europe is full of bureaucrats and government red tape but once you get past all that you're free and in the clear.