lone_yakuza wrote:publicduende wrote:lone_yakuza wrote:I'm also gonna have to disagree with all sides. Both publicduende/ginger's side and ghost's side. Neither men nor women should have the right to whore around/sleep around. It lessens the ability of BOTH parties to form meaningful bonds once they have been f***ed that many times.
It is what contributes to jealousy, needless drama, and social decay. It turns men and brothers against each other and girls and sisters against each other. It turns men against women.
Humans are already inherently a bunch of sinners, undisciplined animals, liars, selfish pieces of filth, arrogant, narcissistic, etc. etc. Without morals, which was the wisdom of past cultures/civilizations, this social breakdown was/is inevitable.
You know that in certain parts of China/Japan/Manchuria/Korea, in the past, adultery was punishable by death for both parties? This was also before men were allowed to have concubines or multiple wives, as having concubines/multiple wives has not always been present in these cultures, and fairly certain that it was not that common in Japan. This is also at the villager/middle-class level so we are not talking about powerful lords who were able to have multiple women because of money. In these villages/small towns, men caught f***ing anybody except their wife were beheaded or castrated, usually beheaded. Women caught f***ing anybody except their husband were either beheaded or drawn and quartered.
There IS a reason monogamy was invented... as a means of social order so that jealousy and infighting and hatred between men or between women or between men and women could be lessened. Also, with monogamy most men are able to find a wife, while with this dating scene/clusterfuck, only the top 5% are able to get quality women and only the top 15% are able to get any women.
If anything, it's cheating, or the obsession with one partner cheating the other, that creates jealousy and needless drama. If society was more just and recognised equal dignity to the man's and the woman's sexual desires, you would see that mutually-arranged outlets like sex parties, swingings and other "games" would be much more accepted than having a couple of random lovers at the back the other half of the couple.
I am absolutely certain that, in 90% of the cases, what a man and a woman are looking in an affair is either something that complements or replaces what they cannot (or can no longer) get from the partner - understanding, complicity, tenderness, or even sexual performance - or an outlet for a repressed desire that they are too scared or embarassed to reveal to their partners. In most cases, if the couple is already in good love and harmony, the only reason to find sex outside the couple is to fulfil a fantasy. This is where, I believe, honesty on both parts can be the best way forward, and much more rewarding than a hidden lover in the long run. I don't want to say anything shocking here, I see that kind of openness and honesty as a sign of emotional maturity in the couple, not a sign of an overactive horny male or a young woman doomed to become a slut.
I agree with you in that monogamy was "invented" to provide every man with at least one good woman. Many primitive patriarchal societies would promote polygamy as long as the man was able to love and provide to all his wives on a dignified, equal basis. Moral sense might change over time, and I believe it's only fitting that a modern society that values gender equality stops placing unnecessary bias on a more promiscuous and playful sexual conduct whether it's a man or a woman who has it.
I disagree with the first part because recognizing equal dignity to both peoples' desires and introducing another human being into the mix will f**k everything up. It will lead to somebody developing feelings for somebody not in the 1 man + 1 woman relationship and it will lead to bad stuff in general. Only way this will work is if both parties are swingers/want to have multiple partners, but you never have the same kind of love that 1 man + 1 woman creates because you have to make room in your mind for the other sexual partners.
I may sound a lot like some Christian religious nuts or rightwing conservatives on this matter of sex, and even though I hate those types of people, I cannot help but agree with their stance on marriage morals and love. Love should be between 1 man and 1 woman (or two men or two women).
Not 1 man and two women or 1 woman and two men or some kind of rotating or off and on relationship. Because that distracts you from loving your partner, who should be your one and only. If you actually love a girl, why the f**k would you want other girls for sex and end up forming attachments with those girls? Sex can be addictive if it is good, so if you seek another human being to fulfill unfulfilled sexual needs... that is basically saying that the partner you pledged to be with till death is no longer important to you in t he same way. That is disrespecting your partner and also shows that you are unable to work things out together. If you are really missing something like sex and the partner is unwilling to compromise, then you need to divorce yourself or never have gotten married in the first place. The vast majority of people probably should not have the right to get married, especially if they have no conscience or morals. Nor should they have children, because lack of these or lack of the ability to discover these morals/ethics/honor, even if not taught, shows inferior reasoning skills, and brain that is probably pretty messed up.
Also, introducing somebody else means you will end up having feelings for some stranger or friend who has no business meddling in the relationship.
If society viewed cheating or being unfaithful as a capital offense, I guarantee that NOBODY would have jealousy issues because they are too afraid to have their dicks chopped off or too afraid of being drawn and quartered to even contemplate cheating on their partner. In this case, fear is necessary because that is the only way to control humans who cannot control their own libido and are unfaithful or dishonorable.
Of course, this law should only be applicable to those who form serious 1 man + 1 woman marriages or committed relationships and know the consequences of cheating and have the f***ing self control not to cheat.
I cannot respect a man who cannot keep his dick in his pants. I cannot respect a woman who cannot keep her legs shut as well. Both are obviously mentally underdeveloped if they do not have the self control not to cave to somebody trying to seduce them or cannot control their libido.
If people want to have open relationships, they need to announce it and they have to be prepared for possible emotional hurt if they find out that swinging or polyamory are not for them. They should also be prepared for the fact that their relationships will never be as deep or meaningful as the relationship between 1 man + 1 woman; or 1 man + 1 man; or 1 woman + 1 woman.
I start from the bottom. Yes, that's what I have been saying - both partners have to be absolutely adamant in the way they share this kind of sexual conduct. This is why, in 90% of cases, these kinds of games are always done with both parties of the couple in the same situation, often in the same room. They have to be prepared to accept the emotional consequences of, say, a random man who might actually give more pleasure to the woman than her long-term partner. Or, for a woman, seeing your bf/husband enjoying sex with a much younger or hotter girl.
I respect your stance as I respect everyone else's on matters like these, as sexual behaviour is something highly subjective and I personally believe should be tolerated - as far as it stay within the limit of
adults (> 18 yo) fully consenting to the acts. Yet, it's a bit naive to think that all couples, especially those who have been together for a long time and enjoy that kind of promiscuous, playful lifestyle, will receive permanent damage and are doomed to a second-class kind of love, or split up after a little while. One could revert your argument saying: what chances to maintain their relationship healthy and fulfilling has a couple where one or both parties are sexually repressed and can't wait for that business trip or excuse to find solace in a strip club, with a hooker or a sugar babe?
As with so many other things in life, sweeping the dust under the carpet will only do to a certain extent. Being honest and upfront can be, in many occasions, infinitely more rewarding.
I can also appreciate your "warrior pride" on the subject of one man/one woman. It's a sign of a refined and disciplined self to show restraint in sexual conduct, or towards any sort of excessive or deviant behaviour. Just like a samurai. However, you must have probably read enough about Japanese culture to know what inner struggles every single member in that society - from a samurai to a maiko, to the Empress - had to endure in order to exhibit that level of universal conformism. Entire social and aesthetic rituals, like the No and Kabuki theatre, were used as a way to sublimate those collective struggles in a story of universal significance.
As Lavezzi says above, shutting down a man's (or woman's) emotional outlet will never work every time on an individual basis. And, on a societal basis, that's the recipe for an extremely hypocritical, cynical social regime where that stuff happens anyway - only to more hideous and crueler extents. See what happened during the Prohibitionism, or what's been happening to that temple to sexual repression that is the catholic church (written in small letters not without a reason).
I wouldn't want to go down to a mutual admiration society with you, but it appears clear that your opinions and words are doing a lot to stir up a few stagnating topics. What's more, they are working miracles to crush the stereotypes that many posters here have of sweet and feminine yet ultimately dumb, submissive and hideously manipulative Filipino women. 