I don't think there's no chance. It just can't be assumed nor asked in polite conversation, so you're better off not trying. That's what I hate most about feminism. It's not choice when you change the language.Tsar wrote:virtually no chance of finding a virgin wife)
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I pretty much disagree with everything Phx says, but he has the right to his opinions. My view:
Feminism is a disease like cancer.
Bringing women to America is dangerous unless done properly. I have done it successfully but I know a Nigerian couple where the wife became Americanized, meaning became a total bitch, and divorced him and totally screwed him over.
Men have every right to demand a virgin, as abcdavid01 explained. It's true that men like Phx who screw around with non-pros make this more difficult.
Phx's #6 is shaming bullshit. I couldn't get women in America. So what? I can't attract female scum. Should I hold this against myself?
I hate flirting. I find it disgusting. Flirting is what women from rich feminist countries want, they want primitive entertainment. I prefer conversation. So for me, women from non-feminist countries are much better. And I had no trouble attracting women in non-feminist countries.
You say "None of you want a girlfriend or wife." Wrong.
Read it again...it is some observation. I have plowed through over 60 countries in about 20 years. I have seen a lot of shit come and go. A man who for better or worse is seasoned and experienced with women will tend to do better with women wherever he happens to end up. What will you suggest, that men with no experience who are naive will do better?
That does not rule you or anyone out. It only makes what should be an obvious observation. Any sensible man should do his best...and if all the women he knows in the USA are all poop, no great loss, go elsewhere.
That said, that same man who is not so seasoned, will likely get beat up a bit even by women overseas...just learn from your mistakes quickly, heal, and move on...eventually it gets better. No matter what you are about to do, court a foreign woman or fight a war, those with less experience have a higher entry risk. That is where "Live and learn" came from. It is not some selfish rule I am trying to impose, it is the law of the universe. Experience creates opportunities for learning and a chance to improve one's odds. If you can get ALL of your experience and hard earned lumps overseas, more power to you. You will likely be the better for it, but you WILL end up taking some hits. Most men I have met who were hitched up with local girls ( Its a very long list of places..) had experience with girls in the USA if they were yanks...and the ones with such experience tended to be a bit more informed in their decisions. Get your lumps wherever you want, but you WILL get them. A few scars will make you smarter if you are lucky. That is just the way it is.
Misamis Oriental, Mindanao
Actually I skipped over #6 by accident. Worst part. Yeah, if a woman texted me a pic of her ass I'd be pretty put off. If it was something sensual and classy like a pic of her making her eyes all sultry then I'd be into it. Or actually, forget texting all together. I'd rather be with her at a restaurant. What does you being an atheist have to do with anything? "God is dead" remember? Seriously dude, it just sounds like you have commitment issues. Sad.
The problem I have here is most women are ice queens. Literally, because it's just damn cold and miserable. I exaggerate because NJ's not New England or hell even Canada, but it's just what I can (or can't) take. If I go maybe a day's drive or more South I reach an area in the U.S. I do much better. Not that they don't have their own set of problems.
There's a definitely small chance in places like North America. I know that it shouldn't be asked in polite conversation to a woman but that's because some women don't want to be honest about their past. Feminists especially hate being asked that question. Any woman I'm with in a relationship will be required to answer honestly after a few real dates if they want the relationship to continue. I won't be playing word games to get an answer. Honesty and communication are important and withholding key information vital to the stability of a relationship is paramount to deceit. I have no intention of compromising my values and lowering my pride. It might sound cold but I would rather have my pride than a second-rate relationship that eats away at me because I feel less of a man. Being a virgin in my twenties definitely has to do with it and after this long there is no sense in breaking my morals and pride. I want no regrets and I have a pride in myself I didn't have when I was younger.
I have never had a girlfriend in my life but it's not due to circumstances I could control. I wouldn't call it entitlement. I would call it reward and recompense. At the end of my early twenties, I decided it's all or nothing so I have no regrets. This means keeping my pride, my standards, my values, and having great expectations for my first relationship. I wouldn't expect her to be a maid or anything, but she should have feminine talents.
It's just that the scales have tipped because there's no stigma. Used to be a time and I'm sure there are still some places where if you ask a girl out odds are she's a virgin or if not she's a widow or extremely ashamed of it. In an environment like that you don't even have to ask if she's a virgin because that's just assumed. So I'm sure there's at least a good minority of virgin women in North America. Just the odds are a lot worse than they were and compared to other places and the only way to win that game is by being cold, which really isn't preferable. A necessary evil.
Tsar, it's admirable you're waiting, but it might not be such a good idea to build up having a first relationship so much. Better to keep a level head so you don't embarrass yourself. I believe in things like virginity and I'm pretty traditional, but I've kissed girls before. My first kiss on the lips was when I was eight and kissed my thirty year old or so babysitter. No big deal for me after that! And I've gotten drunk and even smoked weed once, but I'm just not all that into it. Call me boring, but I just don't get it like other people I guess. I tried that stuff and rejected it . I used to be more sympathetic to gays until secular arguments (unfortunately rare) convinced me otherwise. So it's great to value these things and I do too, but it's unhealthy to get worked up about it too much or be too uptight. You want to have an inviting aura for women. Little girls grow up dreaming of their wedding day, but you don't want to do that. Search for quality women and don't settle, but don't settle on your masculinity either. If you build up that first date too much you can get thrown off when it doesn't go exactly like you see it in your mind.
If you're a virgin yourself, then there is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable about you requiring that your future spouse be the same. In fact, you should demand nothing less of her.
People like Phx Sosa seem to have what I will refer to as the "Muh Dick" mentality, where they are simply not capable of understanding why this is important to you. This guys doesn't share your values; he is trying to put notches on his belt, and praises Rooshv. Also, he probably isn't seeking marriage like you are, either, so the virginity, or lack thereof in a potential mate bears no importance to him. He's probably like a lot of guys I've known, who brag about how they've in fact taken the virginity of several or even many women, of whom they had no intention of making a long-term commitment with. These types of mother*ckers make it that much more difficult for men like you to find and establish a proper relationship.
I think though that once a man is no longer a virgin, he should be willing to make a compromise, and accept that his potential future mate might have somewhat of a sexual past. In my case, I've never been with a virgin, and at this point, it doesn't really matter as much to me. I would be happy to find a woman that loves me and who has maybe had one serious long-term relationship, and thus one sex partner, before I come into the picture. I doubt that I will ever be able to find that in the US at this point, especially at my age, since the age gap between myself and a women with few sex partner is likely too taboo for society to handle (I'm 31).
Last edited by Disillusioned_American on January 19th, 2013, 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
BTW, just wanted to clarify, that I agree with PhxSosa about the fact that you can't put too much weight into the anecdotal experiences of others when it comes to what to expect from country A or country B. I have been discouraged from checking out several S. American countries after reading here about how ugly the average native women there allegedly are. I'm going to stop listening to this type of sh*t, and follow my own instincts instead.
BTW, why do these guys that are merely trying to "score" even care how good looking the women are? They aren't concerned with finding a girlfriend or with having children, so why do looks matter so much to these types of men?
Thanks for putting your thoughts out there for us to ponder. I agree with some, and disagree with some, but your opinion is valuable people to consider.
Couple of things:
-The Skinhead thing is really serious in some places. I always warn minority men about Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Poland. These countries have documented histories of violent mob attacks on minority men, especially when they go around with local women. That is real talk, and before some men go to these places, they need to be informed of what COULD happen. I have had little run-ins in Krakow and I know what I'm talking about. Just do the Google news research and learn for yourself.
-Feminism is a pernicious scourge that damages societies. Do not be fooled as it is more serious than you might suspect. I suggest you view Barbara Kay's YouTupe commentary on Feminism to hear a woman's take. It is that bad.
-Part of this forum is to vent and validate one's suspicions that the larger society will not. So the endless ranting and complaining serves an almost therapeutic purpose for some who have been beaten down and marginalized for years due to their opinions. Don't knock that.
-We are all at different stages of development in this game with foreign women and foreign travel. Not every will progress at the same rate and some will never progress. Don't expect everyone to get to the point where you are as positive as that would be.
-I will say something in support of what you said. Most white men have no idea of what would be appropriate for a black traveler although some arrogantly THINK they do. It is different for us, PERIOD. Sometimes it is better, sometimes it is worse, but it is different. Experienced travelers of color are more credible, but the most credible means to know is your own experience. I find that a lot of white men on this forum like to perpetuate the false myths that they operate under from day to day. There are people like EuroBrat and a few others that try to provoke racial controversies for reasons that would take years to unravel. Recognize it for what it is worth, know that punks like this are just part of the landscape and move about your business.
-About Ladislav. I think he has a wealth of great insight and experience. He is not perfect and he has some blind spots that have drawn my criticism in the past. He and I mostly disagree about Puerto Rico. He was there many years ago, I worked there recently for two long years. He is white, I am black yet he believes that his positive experience in Puerto Rico are typical of everybody who goes there. Puerto Rico has, hands-down, the most ignorant and bigoted people (primarily the women) I have encountered on the planet. It also has the worst women I have ever encountered. This polar disagreement between us makes me now question each and every opinion he posits, but I think he has some things of value to contribute.
-Your description of Odbo was spot on. He is a troll that pops up on various fora and I have seen him for years. he has been banned before and just re-registers under different names. He and his type too are part of the landscape and they project their personal failings onto others. He is to be pitied more than disliked.
-Spot on about your personal preferences in women! That is your business and anyone (black,white or other) who does not like it will just have to get over it. Many Americans still have this caste-system thinking and they hate that you do things on your terms. Cries of self-hate and other nonsense are mostly shaming attempts that have no power unless you permit them to. You exemplify what many black men believe but do not have the courage to express.
Again thanks for the valid commentary and on the record for people to consider.
I think this post needed to be written, but I also can't agree with all of it. Some points in particular:
Expecting to find a virgin wife:
A quarter of this world's population is muslim. No muslim man is going to marry a girl who is not a virgin. No muslim father will allow his daughter to run around and sleep with dudes before marriage. In some countries, a daughter can still be stoned for doing so by her own family. They know this makes the girl no longer marriageable! In the Philippines, my muslim friend's wife had a cousin who married a girl who turned out not to be a virgin. He wouldn't send her back to her parents for fear that she would be killed.
Some countries, like in China, have the same effect without the need of religion. Girls know this on their own and will protect their virginity.
Of course, guys in their late twenties, thirties and forties should not expect to find or marry a virgin, (remember muslims marry young, sometimes very young) as there is no country where girls are not doing it around university age. Still, there is nothing wrong in wanting it.
Guys should do well in the US or expect failure abroad:
This is complete and utter nonsense. I did well in the US. I had money, a nice care, long dreads and and was an artist and musician. If anything, the skills gained getting bitches in the US will have good, wife material women abroad pounding the pavement in the opposite direction. It won't help you unless you are looking for westernized sluts who want one night stands.
Coming on too strong is a good way to get nothing in Japan and Korea. (keep in mind I am talking about good girls and wife material. At clubs and bars you may be fine) Yet I have seen Japanese girls fall all over shy, introverted foreigners who don't know how to talk to girls. They love it. I have seen this in Philippines too, locals with locals, girls literally chasing and throwing themselves at shy, emo, half-gay type guys who appear to want nothing to do with them. Such a guy would never talk to a girl in the US, but the idea that he would do equally poorly in Asia is BS.
What works in the US will be scaring women off in Asia, and, on top of that, many will think you a player, butterfly, UNSAFE, and that the last thing you want in marriage.
Phx has made it clear, though, that he does not want marriage, he does not want to support a woman and he desires a girl to be independent. It appears that he wants to experience many different types of women. In has case, a virgin looking for a husband would be wholly unsuitable. It does not follow, though, that every man should join him in this desire. Not every girl wants to be independent. Many girls, particularly in Asia, want a leader, a pseudo father figure, a provider, someone to tell them what to do. I remember being asked by a girlfriend, once, if she should buy bread or not.
I asked, "Do you want to eat bread?"
She said, "Yes."
So I replied, "Then go buy it!"
There is nothing wrong with that. Every person has different preferences. Everyone has different levels of patience. Every man should find what they are seeking, not what someone else tells you you should seek. You know what kind of girl you like, go and find it for yourself.
A the same time, Phx post also highlighted many of things that reminded me of why I stopped coming here so long ago. Now I am tired of it all again. This place is not about happier abroad and it seems no one is interested in that topic.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
If I married a girl who turned out to be not a virgin I would divorce her for my honor, pride, and because it's one factor at the top of my list, consequences be damned. That's just me. If it's not something he wanted but stuck with it out of wanting to protect her, I can understand that it has a place in terms of being honorable because being a defender of the weak is honorable. But maintaining honor, pride, and remaining true to your own values regardless of their effects on others is also honorable and shows one is steadfastly true.
At the minimum I will be in my late twenties by the time I'm able to afford marriage and devoting all my discretionary income to find the girl I want. I will demand she's a virgin and will not settle for less. It's a dealbreaker. I already have a policy that I will not date any girls who are past their freshman year of college, and very rarely will I look at a sophomore. Why? Odds are the girls aren't virgins and have experience. In 7 years when I turn 30 if I am not in a relationship or married I will still be expecting to have a relationship with an 18 year old virgin because it's something I missed out on when I was in high school/college and because I want an inexperienced girl. Girls with less experience are able to love differently and become more intimate with a man than if she was experienced.
Last edited by Tsar on January 19th, 2013, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.