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Why we should stop really giving a f**k about women

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Postby abcdavid01 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:20 pm

S_Parc wrote:
abcdavid01 wrote:Well yeah, if they think their parents are out of touch or dreaming then the parents haven't earned their respect. Actually I do think my father is out of touch, especially with Western women like we're complaining about, but I'm able to follow his thought trains down even further paths. Plus if I did fit in more I think I'd just be more efficient. I wouldn't have environmental burdens and depressors weighing me down.


I think it's also possible for kids to respect, since in some ways respect has a double-edged sword, admiration (agape) vs fear [ which also includes abandonment for some ], and see their parents as eccentric, or different from them. My hope is that you don't see your future children as a facsimile of yourself or shall we say, the prefecture of your highest goals/aspirations in life.


I don't know. I see myself as a prefecture of my father's highest ideals, though I suspect that to come in line with those ideals I will have to betray him, at least on the surface, because he hasn't followed his own trains of thought as far as I have.

For example, my father is a libertarian. He was in the navy during the eighties fighting the Soviets. He married a Chinese woman, but he still has animosity for Communist China. He may be a libertarian, but he is not as well read in theory as I am and not as consistent. I'm beginning to see China as a closer libertarian ideal than America. Obviously the Party can't change its name, but it is clearly not Communist anymore. But this is another discussion.
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Postby S_Parc » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:37 pm

abcdavid01 wrote:I don't know. I see myself as a prefecture of my father's highest ideals, though I suspect that to come in line with those ideals I will have to betray him, at least on the surface, because he hasn't followed his own trains of thought as far as I have.


Yes, however, you are not your child. I think you don't seem to understand that.

You're probably a decade away from having your own kids and you're already contemplating that they're going to think like you and be a carbon copy of sorts but with a type of optimization gadget on themselves, to overcome any of your shortcomings. To me, this sounds more like one of Lt Data's experiments (of Star Trek Next Gen), than a parent in the real world. Part of who you are, is your own psychology. Whether or not your child shares that style of imprinting, is not as deterministic as you think.

Raise 'em to be conscientious and the best persons they can be. Let the dreams be their dreams, not yours superimposed upon them.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby terminator » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:54 pm

lone_yakuza wrote:
publicduende wrote:OK. You could say that broadband p**n and the occasional high-class hooker are a perfect surrogate to release sexual urges. At least for men, marriage has long lost its status as a marker of social conformity. True, we don't need women to be happy males. After all, a man can live all his life without ever drinking a drop of milk.

Yet, try and live more than a few days without drinking any water and (if you survive) come tell me how it was. Love is the water, the essential nutrient of our soul.


OK, you have to love your self or your family, not some hypergamous whore.

lone_yakuza wrote:Well I'm not advocating just completely withdrawing and just jacking off to p**n or whatever and having zero social interactions with people.

My point is simply that you should be wary of women.... and wary of other men. But we are talking about women here. But if you ask me, humans as a whole are intrinsically pretty evil and only out for themselves. In the past, more people actually gave a shit about their neighbors or community because there was an attempt to include people and it was necessary for the survival of all the members of the community and therefore ties between humans were stronger. With industrialization and advances in technology, we have become further and further apart and there is less need to connect with other people except on the most superficial level.

Like in the other thread, I was also saying, do not become too emotionally attached to anything (especially women) or else you will get majorly f***ed up. Just like how if you go to war and develop a deep brotherhood or friendship with some of your comrades and they die, then you end up really f***ed up. I mean, with all the idealized bullshit about good women we have been fed by this brainwashing society and media, especially shit like Disney or Hollywood, it is a real eye opener once you study PUA and read about interactions with women and see it with your own eyes. You realize that most women, even the supposed good ones, they all play the game of hypergamy. Overseas, it is not as overt as in the US, but that girl in Russia or China or SE Asia or E Europe or wherever that you fancy and also fancies you, is probably also weighing how you stack against other men in terms of status, money, power, etc. etc. instead of caring about you. I guess men do the same thing, but on a lesser scale, we generally only care if she is good looking.

For me, I really only require her to be good looking, to have a nice personality, to be responsible, and to be able to help with house chores or help me cook when I can't cook or whatever.

I am not like a hypergamous woman because I do not look at every new attractive woman I meet and think about whether or not I can get away with cheating on my girl, because I have honor and cheating and that kind of thinking is just f***ed up and disgusting. I never betray those I am loyal to.

But from the sociological and anthropological point of view, pretty much all women are always constantly thinking about how they can score a better guy or are entertaining the idea of cheating on you (especially in the USA), because this hypergamy is hardwired into them. Hypergamy ensures that the women is able to pass on her genes with the male she perceives as being the "best." Aka the top 5% Alpha males.
Also because of the corrupting nature of Hollywood and western media, which has already spread around the world and encourages girls to "go get what they want" instead of striving to be an honorable and sincere person.

However, this hypergamy is of the natural/barbaric/animalistic order. Man invented civilization and morals and philosophy and religion (though I hate most religions) to control our intrinsic, evil, animalistic natures. The problem is that our current society is essentially encouraging a return to un-civilization. It is encouraging a return to the days before honorable knights or samurai or as they say in Mandarin Chinese "ying- shong2 hao3 han4". Basically we are all becoming simply beasts once again.

Thus I am telling all men to be mentally prepared and to realize that going after women is like going to war. In a real war/real fight, there are no rules, unfortunately, just like in love there are no rules, which is why women love to cheat and unleash their hypergamous natures.

"All is fair in love and war."

I dislike this kind of thinking though. What makes life worthwhile is if there are actually rules to level the playing field and make things as fair as possible. But of course, that is not reality.

Also, male whoremongerers such as winston or unattractive males trying to score the best looking girls out there are also dishonorable and kind of disgusting in my opinion (apologies in advance, Dear Leader Winston, but I'm just telling what I really think).

In my opinion, if all peoples simply sought out people of equal attractiveness as they themselves, then things would be much more orderly and society would be much more peaceful and less chaotic. For example, I am objectively a 6.5-7.5/10, so I am not going to go looking for any girl outside that range. A male or female who is only a 3/10, should not try to reach for 7s or 8s or 10s. A female who is a 7 should not be reaching for a 9 or 10 male. The problem is that most women only want the 10. That is how they are hardwired. Hypergamy.

On the other hand, males are more forgiving and willing to have a girl slightly lower than himself.

I'm also saying not to think of women as angels and don't put them on a pedestal as something that we must all pursue with so much energy, but instead we should care less about them and also expect the worst from them, so that if you do meet a gem, then you are pleasantly surprised. On the other hand, if you meet the more common whore/succubus, then, hey, you knew about that all along, so it's not a surprise and you are not emotionally damaged.

Because most people act more on animal instincts in this day and age, especially in the US. In the past, there was extremely strict upbringing, a more conservative society, a larger class of people with morals, etc. etc. to ensure that many women would actively suppress their hypergamous nature. That doesn't mean the past was perfect. In the past, though women were less hypergamous, humanity was also much more racist and crueler in many aspects, overtly rather than the covert cruelty you observe in today's world.

In this day and age, no matter if they are rich or poor, all women are hypergamous and proudly play the hypergamous game. And most people have no morals.
----------------
"Weren't your moms, however busy and career-minded, loving women who did not spare a few caresses and cuddles when you were young? Are you so desensitized to human relations that you forgot your natural, biological need to rediscover that maternal embrace, that physical contact in another human being, be it your girlfriend or the homeless old woman in that street corner?"



My mom was/is a stay at home mom, but I have never been hugged by her and she has only ever attempted to control me or verbally abused me and when I was a kid, physically abused me. My dad was always/is absent, though at the very least he financially supports us, but I suspect he does not live with my mom because she has some mental issues and is a prude and is kind of crazy. He also used to beat me and expects a lot from me, despite all I have accomplished. Maybe they do care about me, but their methods are counterproductive. For example, when I worked my a** off and sacrificed so much, including social life in high school, to get into the top 10 Unviersity in the US, they did not even as much say they were proud of me or anything. They just said, "why didn't you get into Harvard... why only the #8 and #9 school?"
Then again I was socially ostracized throughout middle and high school because of my race anyways, so it's not like I missed out on anything hahahaha.

As for society, well you know that I have always been the target of racial hatred, ostracization, etc. etc. I have had my life threatened for minding my own business simply because people did not like that I was an East Asian male. Also, I have had so many people try to use me it's not even funny. I can never forgive this society nor would I ever give this society love. Only thing I would ever give this society is death and destruction and hatred. Give them some of their own medicine.

So yes, I have never known human love and really don't know what that feeling is supposed to entail. I think it has made me a pretty cynical and somewhat psychopathic person (as in, I would not hesitate to end the lives of people I feel have betrayed me or are actively attempting to bring me down/hurt me.. I have no qualms and no remorse for wanting to kill them. only thing stopping me is the law and the fact that going to prison is counterproductive to my goals). That doesn't mean I don't have empathy for people, because I think I am naturally a nice and empathetic person. But this society and my upbringing have made me cynical and cold and somewhat evil.

So yes, take what I write with a grain of salt because it is a coming from an extremely jaded, bitter, and angry person, though I believe my jadedness, bitterness, and anger are very justified given what I have gone through despite my best efforts to improve my own lot, sacrificing so much and achieving so much, yet all taken away by fate or because of something I cannot change.


I totally agree - women need to be ignored by men and even treated like sh!t - let her look after herself, like men do.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 am

abcdavid01 wrote:Well...actually no. The first memory I have of my mother was her hugging me, but that was because I flinched in anticipation of her spanking me. The other first memory I have of her is crying at her parents house because I want a grandfather and grandmother instead of some Chinese folks I can barely relate to. I have more respect for my grandfather now that he's dead. These are clips I can remember for a few seconds. My absolute first memories are still images: being dwarfed by a giant bookshelf, a funeral for a pet bird, and moving from an old house. Pretty ominous. I have very poor memories of my childhood, which is really saying something considering how young I am. I'd rather not remember anyway because it's like I was sleepwalking the whole time. I was just empty inside.

The only real family I have is my father. I consider myself his heir. He has the same relationship with his mother that I do with his wife. My grandmother lives in Israel, so I almost never see her, though she's been nice to me when I have. My other grandfather died before I was born. I don't fit in very well with my aunt, uncles, cousins on either side. My dad even says he doesn't fit in with his brothers.

I do have a cat I love. I just wish she would shut up and stop whining as I type this because by God is it annoying.

I've been in love before. I know what it means, biologically. I've also been in relationships. At least medium length ones. I've also become very anti-materialist. I know the value of human relationships.

Really you can just read what I said as an answer to Yakuza. I am very much a romantic, to the point of mild embarrassment. I don't think I suffer from self-imposed withdrawal. I think external circumstances pressure me into withdrawal.


A pity you don't have much to remember about your childhood. Unless something catastrophic happens, it's usually the happiest season of a man's life, and kind of builds the vocabulary of emotions that the man will use later in life.

Forgive if I misjudge, but from what you say you grew up in a family environment lacking physical affection. Surely you suffered from the kind of Confucianist-pragmatic mother you had. I have a few Jewish and Israeli friends, and they all told me Israeli families, especially those living in the kibbutz, never spare themselves a chance to show their kids plenty of physical affection. In smaller communities it's actually common that small children are picked up and hugged by complete strangers without their parents raising an eyebrowse. Compare and contrast with the paedo-hysteria in the US or UK...

Perhaps your childhood would have been much warmer and more noteworthy if you had spent a few summers in Israel with your paternal grandparents and their extended family.

Well, happy to see that you do contemplate love in your life, love beyond women at least. Have you ever considered joining a community or group of people were you can feel close with other human beings, not necessarily hot girls? Doing some voluntary work with people who want to genuinely help tends to bring the best of out them. Doing good generally does good to the people to receive as well as those who give. If you remember your story of that fundraising girl talking to you in a semi-flirtatious way? A nice girl who wants to spend a few hours of her time raising funds for the elderly is a lot less likely to be a complete bitch. That's how you get to know the better people - meet them when they are doing some good, or planning to, etc.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:23 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:If I were discussing sex, I would have mentioned the word "SEX." You are attempting to redefine my points to try to rebut them. I would suggest rereading my response to you so you can have an understanding that the other men have of what I am saying.


OK, even worse then. You believe you can live not only a sexless but a loveless life. Good luck, really. I don't know what to add.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Also, you are coming off as a "hopeless romantic" with your ridiculous notions of "love heals all," and "all you need is love," etc. That is magical thinking that women (and not the intelligent ones) tend to believe.


Well, maybe so, but then isn't it better to be hopeless romantic than just hopeless? Anyway I am not being overly cheesy. I don't have a "hippie flower power new age" concept of love. I am just stating the obvious, that a loveless life isn't a life worth living. That's an natural concept that everybody (intelligent and not) tends to hold within and abide by, whether consciously or not.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Question: If your love-centric lifestyle is working so well for you, why are you even on this forum? You claim to be spiritual. If you are, why don't you research how Buddhism teaches people NOT to pursue love (or anything else) as that causes suffering. The point of this thread is essentially the same thesis.


I have never had much sympathy for Buddhism. If anything, esoteric and high spiritual teachings define the Enlightened as somebody who trascends the ways humans usually nurture love, and perform acts of Love and Compassion, or even their opposites, being fully aware of their implications in the loved one's life. A doctor who refuses to tell his patient he has an incurable disease may appear as if he is exercising compassion. In the wider scheme of things, the relatively cynical act of telling him what he has and how long he has left to live is the right thing to do, the right act of Love.

Love can indeed involve suffering. I don't know where in the Buddhist texts you can find that one should refrain from love for the fear of suffering. Indeed, suffering having loved is infinitely more preferable to regretting never having loved. And this is not high spiritual stuff, just common sense.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Let me guess; some woman in your life planted this "love at all costs" seed in you, correct? I cannot envision a man being the source of such discredited malarkey.


Love at all costs, love no matter what is what every sensible human being should tend to. Anyone who really cared about you could teach you about that. In my case, it was indeed a woman, in fact a bunch of women (my Mom, my granny, aunties, family friends) but also a bunch of men (my dad, granpa, etc.). If you never had love from you family, friends or girlfriends, it doesn't mean those teaching are discredited, or your existence is meaningless. It's never too late...
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Postby abcdavid01 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:26 am

You're not wrong about the physical affection thing. I've been abroad before, but mainly to Western countries. Israel included.

Good advice about the volunteerism thing. Take note, Yakuza.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby expatasiaseeker » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:59 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
publicduende wrote:OK. You could say that broadband p**n and the occasional high-class hooker are a perfect surrogate to release sexual urges. At least for men, marriage has long lost its status as a marker of social conformity. True, we don't need women to be happy males. After all, a man can live all his life without ever drinking a drop of milk.

Yet, try and live more than a few days without drinking any water and (if you survive) come tell me how it was. Love is the water, the essential nutrient of our soul.

If not the love of a woman, what love will it be Lone Yakuza? Where are you getting your love from, ABCDavid01? Didn't you learn to yearn love from your mom and dad, or close family? Weren't your moms, however busy and career-minded, loving women who did not spare a few caresses and cuddles when you were young? Are you so desensitized to human relations that you forgot your natural, biological need to rediscover that maternal embrace, that physical contact in another human being, be it your girlfriend or the homeless old woman in that street corner?

We feed on love, acts of genuine human contact and proximity. We need to trust and be trusted, even if that circle of trust collapses to a single person. Feel free to look for that love and trust elsewhere than an American woman, or any woman for that matter. But, for the love of, don't even think of starving yourself of human contact. Grab every smile you can find in a homeless shelter, they're usually from people who value who they are with much more than what they possess. Do some voluntary work with deprived children, suck the tenderness and the wisdom off those derelict elderly - their families might have forsaken them, but they won't have forgotten how to give love. Get yourself a dog: they've been programmed to love and trust their owners and sometimes I can only wish we could learn from their innate behaviour.

Whatever your IQ or political or cultural beliefs, and however articulate you can be in justifying your state of self-inflicted withdrawal, I believe there is no rational argument you can possibly shield yourselves behind to prove that you can live without love. It's against human nature as much as it is for us to breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen.

You know I appreciate your intelligence, your pride and your discipline. I hold you both in great esteem. Yet, without one or more human subjects that you will elect as the source and target of your loving feelings, even the greatest of your achievements will appear shallow and useless.

As somebody once said, you can live without knowing why, but you can't live without knowing for whom.

Nonsense, people live all the time without love. Priests, disabled people, poor and alone people. First of all, Lone Yakuza is not against love per se, he is against the basing of one's life on pursuing that which is elusive and damaging yourself in the process. Those who do sufficiently connect with a woman turn out to be the biggest losers in the end!

But your opinion is one that has obviously drunk the proverbial kool-aid from top to bottom. Yours is the opinion that tells men that they NEED women, leading them to eventual ruin in the process.

No. We don't NEED women, and we don't NEED love. Under the right circumstances, it can be nice when it occurs, but life is not about pursuing love like Hollywood and western women want you to believe. Life is about personal fulfillment, attainment of knowledge, and personal achievement however you can get it.

Stop telling men that that which is not necessary, is necessary. I know you are coming from a good place, but it is destructive. Stop it.


You guys have a very limited conception of what love is. Love between a man and woman is NOT love, it is only lust. The only real, pure love that can exist is between a person and God. Love is meant for one's relationship with God, and no one else.

That is one reason why western men are so f***ing weak. Instead of worshipping God, they have worshipped women instead. What is the most important thing in your life? Women? Sex? Porn? Eating? TV? I am not saying any of those are bad, but they should not be as important as one's relationship with the Divine. Spiritual love is real love, the "love" that exists between man and woman is nothing but lust.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:02 am

publicduende wrote:
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:If I were discussing sex, I would have mentioned the word "SEX." You are attempting to redefine my points to try to rebut them. I would suggest rereading my response to you so you can have an understanding that the other men have of what I am saying.


OK, even worse then. You believe you can live not only a sexless but a loveless life. Good luck, really. I don't know what to add.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Also, you are coming off as a "hopeless romantic" with your ridiculous notions of "love heals all," and "all you need is love," etc. That is magical thinking that women (and not the intelligent ones) tend to believe.


Well, maybe so, but then isn't it better to be hopeless romantic than just hopeless? Anyway I am not being overly cheesy. I don't have a "hippie flower power new age" concept of love. I am just stating the obvious, that a loveless life isn't a life worth living. That's an natural concept that everybody (intelligent and not) tends to hold within and abide by, whether consciously or not.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Question: If your love-centric lifestyle is working so well for you, why are you even on this forum? You claim to be spiritual. If you are, why don't you research how Buddhism teaches people NOT to pursue love (or anything else) as that causes suffering. The point of this thread is essentially the same thesis.


I have never had much sympathy for Buddhism. If anything, esoteric and high spiritual teachings define the Enlightened as somebody who trascends the ways humans usually nurture love, and perform acts of Love and Compassion, or even their opposites, being fully aware of their implications in the loved one's life. A doctor who refuses to tell his patient he has an incurable disease may appear as if he is exercising compassion. In the wider scheme of things, the relatively cynical act of telling him what he has and how long he has left to live is the right thing to do, the right act of Love.

Love can indeed involve suffering. I don't know where in the Buddhist texts you can find that one should refrain from love for the fear of suffering. Indeed, suffering having loved is infinitely more preferable to regretting never having loved. And this is not high spiritual stuff, just common sense.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Let me guess; some woman in your life planted this "love at all costs" seed in you, correct? I cannot envision a man being the source of such discredited malarkey.


Love at all costs, love no matter what is what every sensible human being should tend to. Anyone who really cared about you could teach you about that. In my case, it was indeed a woman, in fact a bunch of women (my Mom, my granny, aunties, family friends) but also a bunch of men (my dad, granpa, etc.). If you never had love from you family, friends or girlfriends, it doesn't mean those teaching are discredited, or your existence is meaningless. It's never too late...


I think it is clear to most now that Lone Yazuka is correct and your points have been discredited. You can make this about me personally all you wish, but the fact of the matter is your point of view is the stuff of weakness, fantasies, and romance novel-obsessed females.

I will say one thing for you, you are honest. You forthrightly admit that you were indoctrinated by females and they planted the seeds of your current misguided views. I would hope that you reflect further on that fact and ask yourself if they were telling you things that are in your best interests or THEIR best interests as women.

For what it is worth to you, continue to accuse me of being loveless, sexless, a homosexual, an axe murderer, or any other false label you can come up with. The bottom line is that you are profoundly incorrect and that is evident to most here.

Kudos to Lone Yazuka for introducing this engaging topic.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:22 pm

terminator wrote:OK, you have to love your self or your family, not some hypergamous whore.


Usual stereotypes mate. Who's the hypergamous whore you're talking about? Your ex-wife/gf? My wife? Somebody you know? Somebody some academic wrote or talked about?

It's almost too good to hide in the comfort of umbrella terms and stereotypes in a place like this forum, where the number of like-minded people is high. Reality is another. If you go out, with an honest mind and an open heart, and you know where to look, finding a woman who is not a hypergamous whore is a lot easier than you think. If you expect to find 100% marriage material in a metropolitan nightclub or a second-world strip club packed with needy single moms, chance is high to have your expectations sorely disappointed.
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Postby TRADER1972 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:47 pm

Cornfed wrote:
abcdavid01 wrote: I will say it is worth falling in love at least once.

Females should be regarded as household appliances


Thats some funny shit!
I would rather make $2000 a month working for myself, then $4000 a month working for a bitch.
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Re: @Lone Yakuza, ABCDavid01

Postby lone_yakuza » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:53 pm

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Last edited by lone_yakuza on Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby S_Parc » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:23 pm

I'm going to chime in on these themes.

Starting with the other thread on "American Beauty", I've noticed that the antagonist, publicduende, tends to use this sort of spiritual based argument to displace any HA position of the world (or women) in general being basically *twisted and needing help*. The tone goes like this ... "I've discovered meditation, group love, &/or some technique of Zen/being and thus, I'm satisfied with myself and the world around me."

Then, in place of finding dysfunction, as more the norm, he finds wonderful attributes, like Asian-American families being tight & happy, but then, he doesn't realize that many are putting on an act (it's called saving face), and perhaps, many more are in fact, miserable. I assert that unhappiness is more normal. Those who find happiness among a load of crap, all races included here, have developed some inner mastery of their emotions. My counterexample to the Asian-American fairy tale was my own observation, growing up around Boston. I'd known of 4 guys who'd committed suicide, 3 were Asian-American (2 from India, 1 from Korea) & 1 white person. Well, despite being a small sample size, that's a disproportionate 3 to 1 ratio, when whites are 70+% of the suburban area and Asians, less than 15%. When I asked other Asian-American pals about this, they all concurred, the pressure is extremely high, as parents are unrelenting and then society, expects 'em to fit in w/o much support or guidance, along with little appreciation.

For me, recently, once I'd started ranting about my own sister and how she ruined my household growing up, I too started mastering my emotions and felt good about myself. Still, that feeling balanced, and being impervious to the crap around me, doesn't translated into putting on rose-colored glasses and seeing how wonderful everything is around me, as if life was some rendition of the "Dawning of the Age of Aquarius". It's still far from that.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:05 pm

S_Parc wrote:I'm going to chime in on these themes.

Starting with the other thread on "American Beauty", I've noticed that the antagonist, publicduende, tends to use this sort of spiritual based argument to displace any HA position of the world (or women) in general being basically *twisted and needing help*. The tone goes like this ... "I've discovered meditation, group love, &/or some technique of Zen/being and thus, I'm satisfied with myself and the world around me."

Then, in place of finding dysfunction, as more the norm, he finds wonderful attributes, like Asian-American families being tight & happy, but then, he doesn't realize that many are putting on an act (it's called saving face), and perhaps, many more are in fact, miserable. I assert that unhappiness is more normal. Those who find happiness among a load of crap, all races included here, have developed some inner mastery of their emotions. My counterexample to the Asian-American fairy tale was my own observation, growing up around Boston. I'd known of 4 guys who'd committed suicide, 3 were Asian-American (2 from India, 1 from Korea) & 1 white person. Well, despite being a small sample size, that's a disproportionate 3 to 1 ratio, when whites are 70+% of the suburban area and Asians, less than 15%. When I asked other Asian-American pals about this, they all concurred, the pressure is extremely high, as parents are unrelenting and then society, expects 'em to fit in w/o much support or guidance, along with little appreciation.

For me, recently, once I'd started ranting about my own sister and how she ruined my household growing up, I too started mastering my emotions and felt good about myself. Still, that feeling balanced, and being impervious to the crap around me, doesn't translated into putting on rose-colored glasses and seeing how wonderful everything is around me, as if life was some rendition of the "Dawning of the Age of Aquarius". It's still far from that.


S_Parc, what are you talking about? :) I am not happy because I have special meditation techniques or a believer in new age philosophies.

I am a happy man because I have been given love and know how important it is in a man's life, despite the risk of being disappointed and hurt. If anything, one can at least learn from his mistakes and triangulate his requirements and tastes when it comes to dating and women. This is how, after the usual path of trials and errors, I have found my wife Monica, a woman who ticks all the boxes and makes me thoroughly happy.

Where in this forum did you read my praise of Asian-American families? I have never maintained the idea that they are happy by definition. I came across the stereotypical Chinese mom/Jewish dad family when the story of "tiger mom" Amy Chua started to make the news. All that undue pressure on two little girls to perfect their piano skills in the middle of the night, pass their exams to the best schools and those excruciating sports activities...they sounded horrible. I am sure Amy's daughters have become what they have become despite their tiger mom. It sounds obvious to me that for every successful "tiger mom" family there are hundred of Asian-American families where that kind of obsessive achievement-oriented parenting culture is more likely to break the young bamboo shoot, rather than beat it into shape. I am not surprised at all to read your little stats about suicide, although the sample is indeed a bit tiny in my book.

And no, what I believe on dating and love and the beauty of human relationships is not the product of too much Disney (which is a culture and an imagery I hate with all my forces, if anything because I was fed on Japanese cartoons, like most Italians of my generation) or an overly cheesy outlook. It's the product of my life experience, which might well differ from yours (and LY's and David's) but is just as valid, and surely more conducive to peace of mind and a more balanced and relaxed approach with our fellow human beings, be them young women or old men.

On a side note, you guys can believe what you want. All I wonder is why are the only thoughts and beliefs you want to entertain those which have the only effect of legitimising your sense of exclusion and making your life more miserable. I embrace a lot of conspiracy theories and have to read bucketloads of shit news about nosediving world markets for a living, but I still believe in the immense beauty of growing my relationship with the people who matter to me, and the pleasure of discovering new ones from time to time. Whatever negativity there is in the macro picture, we will still retain enough control at the micro level to be able to shape our relational and love life the way we want. All it is required is a clean mind and an open heart.
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Postby S_Parc » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:26 pm

publicduende wrote:S_Parc, what are you talking about? :) I am not happy because I have special meditation techniques or a believer in new age philosophies.

I am a happy man because I have been given love and know how important it is in a man's life, despite the risk of being disappointed and hurt. If anything, one can at least learn from his mistakes and triangulate his requirements and tastes when it comes to dating and women. This is how, after the usual path of trials and errors, I have found my wife Monica, a woman who ticks all the boxes and makes me thoroughly happy.


I've already had the opportunity to settle down and marry my former Brazilian GF and live in Rio. I'd opted out. And no, it's not because I'm a commitment phobe. It's because I can't see myself, in that Brazilian Catholic, large extended family scenario for the rest of my natural life. For all intensive purposes, I'm of a nuclear Yankee family, one or two kids, with minimal in-laws/relatives in constant orbit. Thus, there's a cultural gap there and one, which I'm not going to bridge by blindly believing that I can simply extend myself into a network of many dozen in-laws and relatives. So yes, I do consider that to be a *spiritual technique* of sorts and in this case, it would be a Catholic one. Call it, a cultural-spiritual M.O.

For those who need the above, please, by all means ... leave America (Canada, UK, or what have you), and settle down in South America with the *right* woman but realize, you'll need to want to have many children, and want to network with a lot of relatives. One can't shut them out and be considered polite and acceptable. It's a different world but I suspect, some posterers here may desire that. I happen to not be one of them. Thus, I do believe I have enough experience to know what a relationship with a woman is, and while I don't share the *rage* of some others on this thread have towards life in America, I do concur with the notion that for the most part, western men really don't need women, once they become adults and find themselves to be emotionally centered, and not always seeking a partner for validation.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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Postby S_Parc » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:30 pm

publicduende wrote: I am not surprised at all to read your little stats about suicide, although the sample is indeed a bit tiny in my book.


If it were happening all the time then the Boston suburbs would be the suicide capital of the world :wink:
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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