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20 Reasons Not to Join the Military: Why it's foolish

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20 Reasons Not to Join the Military: Why it's foolish

Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:19 am

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
- James Madison

"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."
- Henry Kissinger

Why would anyone join the military and get killed in a war?

I have a vehement question that I don't get. Why would anyone be dumb enough to join the military and go to war, where one has EVERYTHING to lose and NOTHING to gain? Technically, it's akin to committing suicide for no valid reason, especially since American involvement in wars usually have nothing to do with "serving your country" or "defending freedom".

I'm surprised they got anyone to serve in the Iraq War. What if no one agreed to go? Why would anyone go in the first place against all reason and common sense, as well as against their own survival instinct?

Who would risk their life and limb for a war they have nothing to gain from and everything to lose? Technically, it's no different than committing suicide. Further, there are no logical reasons to serve in a war, while there are many logical reasons not to, which I will elaborate on below.

Anti-war sentiment has been mainstream in America for a long time. Back in the 80's, blockbuster movies like "Born on the Fourth of July" with Tom Cruise and "Full Metal Jacket" by Oliver Stone, eloquently portrayed the true horrors of war as unjust and deceitful, without glory or honor.

So even back in the 80's, the American people already knew the truth about the horrors of war, and how there was nothing glorious in it, and how the government deceived young people into the military. The Vietnam War was a prime example, which was ingrained into the minds of the American people.

So how could anyone agree to serve in the Iraq War in 2003? Did they forget all those Oliver Stone films made long ago? Did they forget about the movie "Saving Private Ryan" which should have discouraged anyone from joining the military? Haven't all the poor youngsters who joined the military seen those films? Did they forget about the lessons learned from the Vietnam War?

How could they forget the Vietnam War, which has been etched into American history as a unnecessary tragedy and mistake that cost 60,000 American lives? Isn't that supposed to be common knowledge to Americans? If so, how could the troops in Iraq have forgotten all about it, since it was such an important lesson in history, and agreed to serve in another Vietnam War? It boggles the mind.

By now, everyone knows that the government lies a lot and starts unnecessary wars for profit, or some other nefarious reason (such as an Illuminati sacrifice ritual?) rather than for national defense. Even movies have taught us that. And conspiracies are all over the internet, in movies and pop culture. People get paranoid easily too. Government distrust is already part of the mainstream culture. So why are there still people who believe everything the government tells them, as if it were some bastion of truth? There is no basis to believe that authority=truth.

Besides, don't all living things have a natural survival instinct? Why would the troops serving in the war override their survival instinct by risking their lives in someone else's war? Why doesn't their survival instinct prevent them from serving in the war? If no one agreed to serve in a war, then the war would never exist. Simple as that, you'd think?

And why are more women serving in the armed forces nowadays? Women hate war the most. They don't even like watching war movies. Have you ever met a woman who was a fan of war movies? I've never met even one. Women are nurturers by instinct, not warriors. They are inclined toward social cohesion, not division. So this is very odd and inexplicable.

What's even more odd is why anyone would actually volunteer to serve in a war? For example, why did NFL star Pat Tillman feel the need to volunteer for the Iraq War so that he could get killed? That was a foolish suicidal move with no basis in logic, like a plothole in a movie. Why did Tillman's football coach describe him as an "intellectual athlete"? Would an intellectual volunteer for a war that anyone could see was a sham from the start? Before the Iraq War, no one wanted it and no one supported it, except the controlled corporate media, who were probably just pretending anyway, because it was their job to.

If you add it all up logically, by joining the military and being sent to war, you have EVERYTHING to lose and NOTHING to gain. The long list of negatives and drawbacks far outweighs any benefits. Thus the decision to serve in a war is totally illogical, foolish and suicidal. Consider the following list of reasons not to join the military or fight in a war:


20 Reasons Not to Join the Military: Why it's foolish, illogical and doesn't serve your country

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service." - Albert Einstein

"There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Note: If you know anyone planning to join the military or currently serving in it, please forward this list to them.

1. The troops serving in Iraq are risking their life and limb for corporate profits, not for freedom, democracy or protection of their country. They must all know this since it's so obvious to anyone, right? As David Icke said, "When you join the military you are not serving your country. You are serving an evil cabal that wants to enslave you."

So why would they agree to give up their life and limb to serve greedy corrupt corporations? No sane person would do that. Especially since the elites and politicians that sent them to war refuse to send their own sons to fight in it. Don't the troops care about this hypocrisy?

It would be one thing if the US military were only used for national defense, as with the National Guard. But when it's used for unnecessary invasions of other countries, and the murder of many innocent people, all for the interests of the elite oligarchy and their cabals, that's where it becomes a bad thing, as well as wrong and evil. So if you are just joining to serve your country, or for the benefits, you should just join the National Guard.

What's ridiculous is that if a private citizen committed murder, he/she would go to jail or get the death penalty. But if the government murders thousands or millions of innocent people, then no one responsible goes to jail or receives capital punishment for murdering thousands. This is based on the principle that government = justice, so anything it does (including murdering many innocent people for profit and conquest) must be right and moral, since might makes right. Really stupid.

"War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it." - George Orwell

"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." - George Orwell

2. Those serving in the war risk losing their body parts or incurring permanent injuries, which would disable them for life and bar them from love, dating, relationships and romance with the opposite sex. They could never get a girlfriend or wife if they became disabled, since women will not love a disabled man. (like Tom Cruise's character in the movie "Born on the Fourth of July") This means that they will become miserable and depressed for the rest of their lives.

3. If troops who are married, got killed or became disabled, their spouses and loved ones would suffer greatly. This includes parents too of course. What this means is that, if you die in a war, then your mom goes to hell. Now why would you want to do that to your mother, who gave you life, fed you and raised you? All so you can get killed in an unnecessary war started by greedy sociopaths with no conscience?! Wtf?! That's the worst and stupidest thing you can do to your mom, whom you literally owe your life to! Think about it.

"No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology." - Ronald Reagan

4. The troops have nothing to gain in a war, and everything to lose. The best they can hope for is to come back in one piece. Thus there is no logical incentive. They are not going to get a share of the billions in oil profits that the Bush family is getting. Don't they know that?

5. Troops often come back with post traumatic stress syndrome, which psychologically haunts them for years, or for life. Why would anyone want that? Many veterans even commit suicide because they can't deal with it. (like Tommy Lee Jones' character did in the movie "Heaven and Earth" by Oliver Stone)

6. In the military, you lose all your rights and every freedom you've ever known. This starts right from boot camp, where you are treated like property, not like a human being, while you are turned into a killing machine. It's very degrading. (See the boot camp section at the beginning of the movie "Full Metal Jacket")

Why would anyone like that? Why would anyone want to become an expendable pawn? Especially when you know you are giving up your life and freedom for sociopaths who only care about power and conquest, not you.

7. In combat, you may end up killing innocent people, including women and children (as US troops did in Vietnam) whom you have NO QUARREL with. Or you may even kill fellow troops in friendly fire. This would haunt you and leave you with guilt for the rest of your life. Why would you want that? It doesn't make sense to kill people you have no quarrel with, just because their leader has a quarrel with yours. See this quote below by Aldous Huxley:

"What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood." - Aldous Huxley

Why should you get involved in another's quarrel? Why should you die for it? That's so stupid and doesn't make sense. You should let the quarreling leaders sort it out themselves, not use you for it. Plus, the people you kill in a war may be wonderful people that you would have been friends with had you met them in cordial circumstances.

8. The pay in the military is not that great unless you are an officer. You don't get a pension unless you served for many years or you were injured in combat. Many vets come back home jobless or in need of help.

9. Veterans are usually treated like shit by the government, who no longer finds them useful. So they have to struggle to get benefits. Why would you want to serve a government who uses and dumps its own like that? It doesn't make any sense!

10. The food in the military reportedly sucks. This is according to people who have served.

11. Boot camp training is strenuous, exhausting and painful. This goes without saying. Even many movies depict this.

12. Troops have to spend long indeterminate lengths of time away from their families, all of which is out of their control. They also have no control over where they are deployed.

13. Joining the military or fighting in a war is NOT "serving your country" or the people of your country. Nor is it "protecting or defending freedom". That is a cliche which if you think about, has ZERO basis to support it. So why do all the people in the armed forces believe in it? It's very odd and is a sad testament to how gullible people are to believe in the most baseless things. Has the military pulled off some kind of miraculous mind control trick? Why would so many believe something for no reason other than that they were told it? Let me elaborate on this.

Think about it. How does you dying in a war help any of the common people back home? It doesn't. The common people's freedoms have nothing to do with a war foreign country. In fact, most people's freedom has nothing to do with any government. Governments don't really have much power over you except to use scare tactics on you and mind control you through your TV. A government cannot terrorize you with a standing army directly because it does not have enough troops to push everyone around. As long as you don't break any laws, the government won't even bother with you. It has better things to do.

In reality, one's personal freedom is far more directly affected by one's daily obligations to their work, family, employer and bills. All these things directly affect your everyday routine and personal life, far more than any government does. Even your employer has far more control over your "freedom" than the government does, and you are free to quit working for your employer if you want.

Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom. Besides, isn't it ironic that the military claims to be defending freedom yet there is no freedom within the military itself?

I've never understood why those serving in a war claim that war protesters are being unappreciative of them for defending their freedoms? This is not only bad logic, but false as well, since fighting in wars based on deception to serve elite/industrial nefarious interests has NOTHING to do at all with protecting the freedoms of the American people. It has ZERO relevance. How can people be that stupid? It's very sad and speaks badly about human intelligence.

What does it mean to "serve your country" anyway? A "country" is a social and political construct that doesn't really exist. So how can you "serve" something that doesn't exist? This concept seems like a mind control technique designed to brainwash people into doing whatever they are told by their rulers for the "love of their country". Otherwise, it has no logical basis in reality.

In this context, the idea of "patriotism" makes no sense either, since there is no "country" to be patriotic for - no "country" to love, serve and die for - since a country doesn't truly exist except as a sociological/political construct.

Here are quotes from what great thinkers, writers and intellectuals have said about the folly and danger of "patriotism":

“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.â€￾
- George Bernard Shaw

“Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.â€￾
- Bertrand Russell

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.â€￾
- Oscar Wilde

“Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?â€￾
- Blaise Pascal

"What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood." - Aldous Huxley

“Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, and conscience, and a slavish enthralment to those in power.â€￾
- Leo Tolstoy

More great anti-war quotes here:
http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2010/0 ... uotes.html
http://www.antiwar.com/quotes.php

Likewise, the concept of "doing your duty" by serving in the military when drafted into a war (like the draft in Vietnam) has no logical basis either since the US Constitution says that we are free and that government has no right to force people into a war against their will.

Moreover, wars are started elites and their cabals for nefarious purposes that have nothing to do with justice or freedom. So obviously, you participating in that is not "serving" the common people at all. How do the American people benefit from the rich getting richer? Trickle down economics of the 80's proved to be a sham.

In addition, most wars the US has been involved in have had nothing to do with defending the security or freedoms of the American people. In fact, they have been based on lies and deception.

Finally, the elites that start wars were not even elected by the American people. They were placed there by their secret societies and fraternal orders (Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati, etc) to serve the agenda of that secret order, not that of the American people. Every researcher and thinker knows that by now. There is no "government by the people" in America. That is a myth that has no basis in reality. People have no real say in their government. There is no democracy and voting does not affect policy. The illusion of democracy has proven to be a sham again and again. Every example in history demonstrates this. How many examples have to occur before the American people realize it?

In fact, a true democracy cannot even work because most people are not wise or rational, but are foolish and easily misled. Mobs are not rational or wise, and therefore mob rule is not a good thing. Intellectuals throughout history, including our Founding Fathers, knew that and wrote about it. Plus, truth is not determined by the majority, but by evidence, logic and reason. So shouldn't evidence-based logic and reason rule a society, rather than the majority?

Even George Washington in his letters said that the Freemasons (which he was a member of) were working to DIVIDE the government from its people so that the people had no real say (only the illusion of it), while the Freemason order ran things in secret. Therefore, if you are serving the interests of elites who were selected by secret fraternal orders rather than the American people, then technically, that is NOT serving your country or its people.

Before leaving office, President Eisenhower warned America in a public speech about the military industrial complex and its corrupt aims for domination, power and control. Obviously, serving a corrupt military industrial complex has nothing to do with serving the American people.

In summary, joining the military is NOT "serving your country" because:

a) A "country" does not really exist. It is a social and political construct artificially created by society and culture.
b) Serving in a war started for profit, conquest and other nefarious motives by the elites and their cabals is obviously not serving the common people of your country, who do not even benefit from it.
c) Most wars the US has been involved in have nothing to do with defending the freedom or security of the American people. Instead, they have been built on lies and deception. This is nothing new.
d) The notion of patriotism is foolish, untrue, delusional and illogical, as evidenced by the quotes above.
e) A government cannot really take away your freedom. It can only scare you from afar through the media. No government has enough troops to push everyone around. Your freedoms are far more directly affected by your daily routine and obligations to work, family, employer and paying bills than by any government. Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom.
f) The elites that start wars for nefarious purposes were not even elected by the American people, but placed there by secret societies, fraternal orders, and their cabals (e.g. Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati). Therefore, serving them is not technically serving the American people at all, especially since there is no "government by the people" or true democracy in America.

14. There is no logical reason to serve in someone else's war that they themselves refuse to fight in. If Bush starts a war, then he should have to fight in it too, like Alexander the Great, who fought with his troops, did. There should be a law requiring those who start wars to fight in them. Such a law would essentially end wars. It's not fair or right for those who start wars to make other people die in them. Don't the troops know that? If so, why didn't they call Bush a hypocrite when he visited them for a pep talk? They should have jeered him, not cheered him.

15. Anyone can see that George W. Bush is a liar, demon and con artist. It's written all over his face. His facial features look demonic and evil. He looks like a total con artist and scumbag. Even a dog can see that. He does not even look serious, credible or honest at all. And he talks like a very bad stooge actor who can't even act. He looks like a total joke and insult to the American people, and is not even funny or comical.

No one would even buy a used car from a guy like him, let alone elect him as President. So why would the troops cheer him when he visited them in Iraq? Were they all acting? At least Hitler looked honest and serious, whereas Bush doesn't at all.

Why is it that when a President is much beloved, like Lincoln or Kennedy, they get assassinated. But when everyone hates a fake stooge President, like Bush, who is universally hated, he never gets assassinated? Isn't that so upside down? Shouldn't the collective will of the people have saved Kennedy or taken out Bush, according to the "thoughts create reality" principle of the Law of Attraction?

16. The elite have publicly declared that they look down on military men as subhuman animals, so why would you want to serve them? In the book "The Final Days", Henry Kissinger was quoted as saying: "Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." This is the mentality of the elites that start these unnecessary wars that only benefit them. Would you want to serve someone who thinks of you as subhuman? Where's your sense of self-respect?!

17. America is an oligarchy or corporatocracy, not a democracy or a republic, and thus not worth dying for. An oligarchy is a country ruled by a wealthy elite class (the top one percent) who operate outside of public scrutiny. Everyone knows that. The American system is set up to benefit the top one percent, who essentially own the country.

That's why the government doesn't use tax dollars to provide national healthcare, like all the other industrialized countries do, so that no one has to go bankrupt from medical bills. Instead, the government prefers to use tax dollars to drop bombs on other countries.

Now is that a system that you really want to serve? Geez. How obvious can it get? And more to the point, why would anyone want to serve such a system?

18. If war is natural, honorable and good, then why do veterans commit suicide so often? Why won't any of the Congressmen send their sons to a war? Instead, they have to recruit boys from the poorest families who can't get jobs to go die in wars. But again, why would anyone agree to do that?

19. If you have an inclination to go out and kill or destroy things, you can play video games, or go hunting, or join a sport like boxing, wrestling or martial arts, to unleash your aggression. Why would you need to risk your life and limb in a senseless war serving corrupt people who lie to you? It doesn't make any sense.

20. The US government has a long documented history of lying to the American public. So why would you want to serve a government that lies to you, or give you life for it? The US government has lied about a long list of things. They lied about the death of Pat Tillman, the rescue of Jessica Lynch, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, atrocities in Kuwait, the assassination of President Kennedy, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident that started the Vietnam War, what happened on 9/11, etc.

These were not harmless lies either. For example, as a result of the staged Gulf of Tonkin Incident, which they used to start the Vietnam War, 60,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese lost their lives unnecessarily. Yet no one was ever brought to justice for this lie that led to so many unnecessary deaths. Where is the justice in that? Instead, it was just treated as an "honest mistake". Yeah right.

What's odd is that if a friend lied to you about something important and serious, you would no longer trust that friend. Everyone knows that. So why then can the government repeatedly lie to you, yet you still consider it to be a bastion of truth? That doesn't make sense, and only testifies to the level of brainwashing you've received that "authority=truth" and your need to believe that government is a caring parent.

"In war, truth is the first casualty" - Aeschylus

"Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war." - John Adams

Conclusion

So you see, joining the military and serving in a war is 100 percent illogical and foolish, and is not even serving your country or the people of it. In light of the 20 reasons above, I can't understand or fathom why anyone would join the military and get obligated into serving in a war. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Why would anyone do something that was 100 percent illogical and senseless, knowing that they are serving evil powers that don't care about them, and could come back dead or disabled? I can't fathom that.

Could this be why the US government wants to dumb down people and keep them stupid, or else no one would agree to serve in a war if they knew the truth and could think logically? Do people who join the military tend to have lower IQ's? (no offense intended) or do they just have no job prospects?

If any of you reading this have served in the military before, can you explain why you joined up in light of the reasons above? What were you thinking? Didn't any of the sensible reasons above cross your mind? How could you join something with so many logical reasons against it?

Also, if those currently active in the military read the list of reasons above, do you think they'd drop out?

Note: No disrespect or offense is intended to those who served in the military, but the truth is the truth isn't it? There is no logic in voluntarily dying to serve the interests of a corrupt greedy elite that do not care about you or the American people, all of which has NOTHING to do with "serving your country or people, or defending freedom".

Note: If you know anyone planning to join the military or is currently serving in it, please forward the above list to them. Also send them these anti-war quotes:
http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2010/0 ... uotes.html
http://www.antiwar.com/quotes.php
Last edited by Winston on Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:30 pm, edited 20 times in total.
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Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:41 am

Nonsense. No healthy person joins "to get killed." People join the military as a professional decision, for pay and benefits, for service to country, and for adventure.

I served in the military, and while it was difficult, the grit and threshold for pain I developed enabled me to outperform my peers in university and in my professional life. Looking back, the military was a turning point for me and without it, I would be just an average or below-average Joe.

I became exposed to a world of non-military careers and more importantly other countries around the world.

The military is a professional, patriotic, and personal proving ground. Most people in the military do not fight in combat, most people do not die in the military, and most people do not become maimed. Those things do happen, but the risk of that can be managed.

The military is NOT for everyone. But there is a reason why some of the most accomplished people in the world have served in the military. From Presidents, Prime Ministers, business leaders, religious leaders, sportsmen, journalists, public servants, diplomats, to great husbands and fathers, a high proportion of the most accomplished among them have served in the military.

If you are not into law enforcement, fine but don't knock it. If you are not into firefighting, fine but don't knock it. If you are not into EMT work, fine but don't knock it. If you are not into military service, fine but don't knock it.

You draw your fulfillment from whatever you do, but don't denigrate those who find fulfillment in the military!
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:50 am

Contrarian,
But you are a freethinker. The military should be the last place you'd want to be.

What about those 20 reasons above? Did you read them? Did any of them go through your head when you joined? Aren't they true?

How is joining the military honorable? You are risking your life for no reason. It is NOT serving the country or serving the American people. That's a cliche with no basis in logic. I explained why above. In fact, you are serving an evil cabal of sociopaths, a criminal syndicate that has hijacked the country long ago.

Anyone can see that. It is obvious by now and was obvious long ago. So why would anyone do it?

Anyone with common sense knows that the elites who started the Vietnam War which cost 60,000 American troops their lives UNNECESSARILY, must have been sociopaths. Only sociopaths would send men to their deaths for profit. Would you do that? Could you sleep well if you did that? Only a sociopath could do that without conscience or empathy.

Read those 20 reasons above and tell me how you would deal with them. It appears that you didn't read them.

Why shouldn't anyone knock joining the military? Those 20 reasons above are true aren't they? They are even portrayed in Hollywood movies. So why would anyone join the military after knowing about them? It doesn't make sense.
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Postby zboy1 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:13 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Nonsense. No healthy person joins "to get killed." People join the military as a professional decision, for pay and benefits, for service to country, and for adventure.

I served in the military, and while it was difficult, the grit and threshold for pain I developed enabled me to outperform my peers in university and in my professional life. Looking back, the military was a turning point for me and without it, I would be just an average or below-average Joe.

I became exposed to a world of non-military careers and more importantly other countries around the world.

The military is a professional, patriotic, and personal proving ground. Most people in the military do not fight in combat, most people do not die in the military, and most people do not become maimed. Those things do happen, but the risk of that can be managed.

The military is NOT for everyone. But there is a reason why some of the most accomplished people in the world have served in the military. From Presidents, Prime Ministers, business leaders, religious leaders, sportsmen, journalists, public servants, diplomats, to great husbands and fathers, a high proportion of the most accomplished among them have served in the military.

If you are not into law enforcement, fine but don't knock it. If you are not into firefighting, fine but don't knock it. If you are not into EMT work, fine but don't knock it. If you are not into military service, fine but don't knock it.

You draw your fulfillment from whatever you do, but don't denigrate those who find fulfillment in the military!


I agree with many of the comments Contrarian just posted; After high school, I was kind of a lost figure before I joined the military; afterwards, I gained a lot of confidence in myself, learned a lot of new skills and abilities that were transferable to the private sector, and I got to see the world outside of the United States. I also received a lot of benefits from my service including: the GI Bill for college, VA hospital privileges, and low-interest VA loans.

Some of the downsides of serving in the military included: having to deal with a lot of A-hole personalities (including many NCOs and Officers), cheating wives (if you're married), constant requirements to take shots like the Anthrax vaccine (in which many soldiers are reported to have had negative reactions to the shots--with some even refusing to take it, resulting in a court-martial), and constant deployments to hot-spots around the world.

I was lucky I joined the military before 9/11--before things really went to hell-in-a-handbasket for everyone--including the soldiers, and got out just at the right time (right before the start of the Iraq War). Now, I advise everyone I know not to join the military due to all the b*llsh*t wars being waged and the lies the government is using to target and invade countries. It's just not worth it to join the military as it used to be....
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:48 am

But zboy, those downsides you cited are nothing compared to the 20 reasons above. Aren't those 20 reasons above true?

Besides, you make it out to be that joining the military was a good honorable thing before 9/11. Why? How was it better before 9/11? Didn't you learn from the Vietnam War that the elites and their cabals send people off to fight UNNECESSARY wars and die in them? Even Hollywood movies portrayed that. Why did you forget the lessons from the Vietnam War?

What's happening in Iraq already happened during the Vietnam War. So why do you act like the injustices there are some "new thing"? I don't get it. The same mistake has been repeated many times. Yet people like you act like it's something "new" every time it happens? Why does everyone have amnesia? Even movies from the 1980's portray war negatively. Didn't you see them?
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Postby ladislav » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:02 am

The US military protects American interests, that is why it is seen as serving one's country.

Sometimes, people who join are poor ones who have no money to go to college or no special talent. And sometimes, it's all kinds of people. And you have many things to gain- easy loans to get houses, paid college education, VA benefits of all kinds, pensions, etc. And while you are in the military you also get combat pay - so you do take risks for money.

When you are young, the military does offer you a way to improve your future and not everyone goes to war- most people have non combat duty at some base, etc.
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:26 am

I revised the above section about why joining the military is not "serving your country" and summarized it with the reasons below:

In summary, joining the military is NOT "serving your country" because:

a) A "country" does not really exist. It is a social and political construct artificially created by society and culture.
b) Serving in a war started for profit, conquest and other nefarious motives by the elites and their cabals is obviously not serving the common people of your country, who do not even benefit from it.
c) Most wars the US has been involved in have nothing to do with defending the freedom or security of the American people. Instead, they have been built on lies and deception. This is nothing new.
d) The notion of patriotism is foolish, untrue, delusional and illogical, as evidenced by the quotes above.
e) A government cannot really take away your freedom. It can only scare you from afar through the media. No government has enough troops to push everyone around. Your freedoms are far more directly affected by your daily routine and obligations to work, family, employer and paying bills than by any government. Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom.
f) The elites that start wars for nefarious purposes were not even elected by the American people, but placed there by secret societies, fraternal orders, and their cabals (e.g. Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati). Therefore, serving them is not technically serving the American people at all, especially since there is no "government by the people" or true democracy in America.

Contrarian and Zboy, doesn't that make sense? Didn't any of this go through your mind when you joined the military? Why can't you discuss the 20 reasons above? Is it because you are biased against them, even though they are true and logical?

Long ago, movies like "Born of the Fourth of July" directed by Oliver Stone, exposed the tragedy and deception of war. Everyone should know about it by now. So why do you guys act as though films like that don't exist?
Last edited by Winston on Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ladislav » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:09 am

I wish I had all this time to argue. Some of us have to sleep and work for a living. So I will try to be as laconic as possible.

a) A "country" does not really exist. It is a social and political construct artificially created by society and culture.


It exists. Its origins were based on a construct but just as a car, it exists. It exists now- it has police, military, gov't, economy, language, accent etc.
b) Serving in a war started for profit, conquest and other nefarious motives by the elites and their cabals is obviously not serving the common people of your country, who do not even benefit from it.


The military protects American interests. In that sense anyone who does that, serves the country.

c) Most wars the US has been involved in have nothing to do with defending the freedom or security of the American people. Instead, they have been built on lies and deception. This is nothing new.


You will have hard time explaining it to the hundreds of millions of people in the USA.

d) The notion of patriotism is foolish, untrue, delusional and illogical, as evidenced by the quotes above.


Back in the old colonial days or any other days most societies were always under invasion by hostile neighbors or people from beyond. So, a tribe protecting its territory against such an invasion would be considered an act of patriotism.

e) A government cannot really take away your freedom. It can only scare you from afar through the media. No government has enough troops to push everyone around. Your freedoms are far more directly affected by your daily routine and obligations to work, family, and paying bills than by any government. Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way.


You are talking about America only or in general. Gov'ts can and do take away freedoms.

Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom.


Cannot comment on this. Do not have enough info or time. Ibid for the following questions.
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:19 am

Ladislav,
You act like you are from the 1960's. What you say has been debunked long ago. You aren't making sense.

Everyone I know knows that wars are unnecessary and based on deception. Remember that saying "In war, the first casualty is truth."

How do wars like Vietnam and Iraq serve American interests? What is American?

You seem to know very little about how things really work.

A country is an artificial construct. It's not something natural. You can't pick it up and touch it. I could call a group of people a "group" but does that make it one entity? No, it's just a collection of separate individuals. It is not monolithic. It does not have one mind and one body. It does not have one interest. You cannot pick up a group or touch it. Even more so with a country.

You are operating from various fallacies.

Are the 20 reasons above true? Why or why not? Why do you fear addressing them?

Your lack of time is an excuse because you know you can't address them because they challenge your biases and beliefs.
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:19 am

Some of you guys here are not thinking straight.

Of course there are benefits to serving in the military. Otherwise, no one would join. Duh.

But that doesn't make it an honorable institution. How is it good or honorable to join it? How is it good or honorable to fight in a war based on deception to serve an evil elite cabal with corrupt interests that doesn't even care about you?

Contrarian, of course people who serve well in the military get prominent positions later. That's how it works. But that doesn't make it good. Sheesh. Those who cover up conspiracies also get rewarded too. For example, the officials who helped cover up the JFK assassination and 9/11, all got rewarded for it. But does that make it good?

Geez. I thought you were a freethinking black man? Why are you so conformist in this regard?

Ladislav, I thought you said you were a Buddhist? As a Buddhist, you should know that identities like "American" or "patriot" are illusions.

Don't you all recognize the mind control that's going on, and the corrupt deceptive interests of war? Why do you defend those who participate in it? Do you all know nothing of history? Sheesh. I thought you guys were freethinkers?
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:33 am

For those of you who don't understand history, here is a great history lesson posted on Yahoo Answers:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 718AAMyirc

"Resolved QuestionShow me another »

What did Aeschylus mean by "In war, truth is the first casualty"?

It's That Guy
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

In order to fight a war, to start a war, you have to lie. The aggressor usually says it's only defending itself. Wars of conquest are disguised as 'liberation', and invasion and occupation is usually characterized as being in the interest of the 'victims'. And those who disagree are silenced as unpatriotic or subversive.

This is true of the Roman Empire marching into one territory after another in Europe, and before that the Greeks. It's true of Hitler marching into Czechoslovakia and Poland at the start of WWII. It's been true in almost every war the US has been involved in. For instance, at the end of WWII 'The Department of War' was renamed 'The Department of Defense', even though we haven't fought a true defensive war since 1812-14.

In the first Gulf War, GHW Bush said that Saddam Hussein had plans to invade every other country in the Middle East and that US satellite photos showed Iraqi troops massed on the border of Saudi Arabia. That turned out to be a lie. They trotted out a Kuwaiti girl who told a tearful story of babies taken out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals, left on the floor to die so the Iraqis could steal the incubators. That was quickly shown to be a lie. Bush said he was restoring democracy in Kuwait but it had never actually been a democracy before and certainly wasn't afterwards.

In the current Gulf War, GW Bush lied about Saddam's nuclear intentions, his possession of enormous amounts of WMD, his plans and capability to attack the US and England, etc.etc. When one reason for invading Iraq was disproven and discredited, Bush would simply drop it and trot out another. There is a website somewhere that lists 20 of these reasons, ALL lies. He lied about our intention to 'liberate' Iraq and form a truly democratic government. These were just the lies told at the start of the war, in order to bring the American people along with the war. Then for six years he lied about our progress there, said we were constantly, steadily making progress. He lied about torture and rendition, about the cost of the war, etc. All in all he told more lies than he told the truth. And anyone who disagreed with him was smeared as anti-American.

This is nothing new, EVERY war begins this way."
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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:01 am

Remember how getting men to sign up for wars works......generally when they want to get a war going they create a lot of poverty before hand. Like the great depression was created to put a lot of men out of work right before the war was started.

So the men see signing up as a way to at least provide for their family. They don't PLAN on getting killed.

Also women reward men who sign up with sexual favours and hate on and vilify men who will not sign up.

Women call men who do not sign up all sorts of names from the comfortable position of never having to do the same themselves. The old "bravery of being out of range" syndrome. Women are absolute cowards and I will not tolerate them attempting to claim anything else.

Remember women ran "white ribbon" campaigns in the english speaking world in WW I. And in the UK there was conscription and men were compelled to fight or go to jail..talk about "male privilege".

The way for men to sort out the issues of the day is to form new courts that are fair and just. But since men are too gutless to do that they just have to suffer with the situation that they condone by not rejecting it and standing up for themselves.
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:47 pm

Where do women give out free sex to those who sign up to join the military? If that were so, lots of guys would pretend to join up just to get free sex, and then pull out at the last minute (no pun intended lol).

Women are usually anti-war. I've never heard of them shaming men for not joining the military. They don't even like war movies. I've never been able to get a woman to enjoy a war movie.

Btw, if veterans get benefits, then why are so many complaining that they don't get any and asking for donations? I get so much mail from Veterans Associations asking for donations. Why?
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Postby Renata » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:23 pm

Imagine having to do military service for 2 years because it's compulsory due to your nationality. All Turkish men have to do this by law, or else :!:
I'm not sure what happens to foreign men who acquire citizenship here, if they have to serve in the military or not. Although I see this as an advantage. If this country is invaded all men are ready & skilled for combat, from the taxi drivers, to the accountants.
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Postby Winston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Eloquent post from the David Icke forum:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235446

"a lot of these young people have no future in there home towns, high unemployment, poverty living standards etc, they see the military as a way out, at the recruiting offices your head is filled with bullshit like good pay and living conditions, foreign travel and exotic places, and excitment of using dangerous weapons etc! also the crap...its a career!.
at the basic training stages you are mentally and physically broken down, and re-built by the military so that you dont question orders, and have limited thinking abilities, and acheive a reasonable level of fitness.

at no time will they tell you about, block jobs(scrubbing toilets etc) area cleaning(picking up litter) or being abused by sadistic perverted nutters under the guise of discipline! they also wont tell you about having to pay for meals ,accomodation, local council tax, clothing.

being a complete mindless bell-end is encouraged and rewarded with promotion whilst further brainwashing with crap like , your doing an important job! and your saving lives/making a difference! no you are not!!.

unless you are defending this country from a hostile enemy...............you are the hostile enemy!! blowing up mud huts and killing unarmed people doesnt make you brave!! and what do you get at the end of it all(if you live) a few cheap medals and a very shitty pension which will f**k you up for a whole load of other things as you waste away into old age.........but the memories of what you did in the name of peace will haunt you for ever because deep down you know it was wrong!"
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