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Unapproachable women in America

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby ajushi » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:08 am

Grunt wrote:In my opinion, the overall trend toward social decline was initiated by the females. Back in the 80's and 90's most guys were simply looking to get a good job and enjoy life. It was not overly common for there to be so many back-stabbing trolls in the male community like we have today.

This is attributed to virtually all males in American society being raised by a feminist. Put simply, males are merely emulating the traits (passive-aggressive, gossip, duplicity) of the leader of their family unit (currently the mother, formerly the father).

Todays males have quite literally never seen how a real man behaves, so they have no workable model. Thus, they act like little bitches.



TRUTH
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Postby ajushi » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:17 am

J.Adama wrote:
MatureDJ wrote:
J.Adama wrote:It is not a mystery. Most men learn by the age of 25 that most American women consider men to be creeps. Approach a random woman on the street and the answer will always be NO. It doesnt matter how much flirting there was beforehand. You dont meet women in this country unless you have mutual friends. Or you meet them online. Any other situation and women just arent interested. And when they do flirt, it is only for the temporary ego boost.


A friend of mine was teaching English in Moldova (former USSR country that is ethnically Romanian) and he was just starting conversations with women on the street, asking them in English if they how to get to ... (the place was unimportant, it was just a line.) Well what do you know, he ended up marrying a woman he picked up (he was 52, she was 26), and they are a happy, growing family. He's from NYC, and I asked him if he could have done this there, and he said he'd get locked up in Riker's Island (jail) if he'd have tried that.

That could happen in the western European countries I've been to (with the exception of UK/Ireland). The age difference wouldnt happen most likely, but you could wind up in a relationship with a woman you met literally walking down the street.

Here in the states that wouldnt happen unless the woman saw you get out of your Porsche first.


THIS POST IS 100% TRUTH. IN THE STATES THERE ARE 10S OF MILLIONS OF WOMEN WHO ARE BEHAVING EXACTLY THAT WAY AND YES YOU COULD EASILY WIND UP IN JAIL FOR APPROACHING AMERICAN WOMEN AND YES YOU COULD MARRY ONE THAT YOU MEET ON THE STREET ABROAD. AMERICAN WOMEN BY THE MILLIONS ARE SO FRUSTRATED THAT THEY CANT MEET A MAN AND YET THOSE SAME WOMEN ARE TREATING THEM LIKE THIS. NOW LETS MOVE ON TO FOCUSING ON WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT SHORT OF MOVING TO MOLDOVA!
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Re: A civilized rebuttal...

Postby ajushi » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:34 am

Women should submit to men in marriage. Men should have headship in a marriage.

If possible, women's work should be to stay at home and raise children, home school, keep the home, etc... and men should work in jobs that pay money, but even if both must do work to make money, they their should still be headship, spiritually and in family decisions, of the man over the wife. In this way, the wife becomes the glue that keeps a family together.

Marriages (and I mean this form of it I just described) should not only be highly sought by both men and women, but preserved and protected at almost any cost as the cornerstone of a functional civilization, and divorce should be highly frowned upon in society, except in the extreme circumstances of when a mans wife commits adultery or when a man abandons his wife.


In the 1960s - 1980's, when the US society decided that everything I just wrote was not true, then we began to see a very rapid and very disturbing decline of our civilization and it is still on its way down.

There is no issue of men having a hard time "keeping up" with women - the issue is that women have decided it is right to lord it over the men. As a result we have a society of single people, ravaged by divorce, abandonment, and mind-bogglingly extreme relational flippancy to the point that it is so far gone that anyone, woman or man, married or single, traditional or progressive, can take a look around and recognize the problem. Only the most extremely blind women can not see at least to some extent that there is a very serious relational crisis well underway right now in the US society and God knows it is not because the men have become less nice, more abusive, etc. America is well known to have the nicest and most conscientious men and most yielding men on the planet.


And finally, to Jackals points about the effect of constant brutal rejection on men (not to mention abandonment when we do manage to connect with a woman). Amen dude. Amen. Well stated. It is in fact so devastating that over time, men eventually give up on even talking to or approaching women. Women behave as if they don't need men, because since they have claimed lordship over men in the US society, they in fact do not need them - they look at us and talk to us like dogs, children, curiosities.

I myself have opted to take on rigid sensibilities and expectations with women and will not have anything whatsoever to do with any women, American or otherwise, unless she is prepared to be talking about topics like marriage, divorce, family, children, sensibilities about terms and goals of relationships, spiritual beliefs, personal issues and struggles, radical acceptance, love, and commitment, and so on in the very first conversation. I am 100% done wasting my time on a lost generation and the woman I marry, if I should be so blessed, will be someone who feels exactly the same way about it, regardless of whether she come from the USA or another country. This society is so far gone I won't waste a minute on any woman who is not ready to get real.

And there is a LOT of garbage on this forum which is in fact a great example of part of the problem in humanity, especially modern society - posts upon posts focusing on where the hot women are, or posting pages and pages of pictures of hot women, talking about dating and hooking up and finding more women to hang out with and so on.
Well I only want one woman and I don't give a shit about dating or getting laid or having lots of women to hang out with any of this other nonsense that the many here, especially Winston the forum owner, is so often talking about. Those are not things that men pursue - those are the amusements of the deranged and they lie at the crux of the entire problem (relational flippancy, producing a pattern of more relational flippancy, broken heartnedness, unwanted pregnancies, relationships based on sex instead of marriage, etc......) There are plenty of women in America who want marriage but get relational and sexual flippancy from no-balls men instead, or read and see that kind of dog shit on a forum like this, giving us all a bad name. If one wants dignity and respect from women, they should act worthy of it.

I see you talking about "the truth being on our side", Winston. Well what I just said, that is Truth and I know you don't go for that. Truth is not something Americans want to hear now - that's why our society is desintigrating and we have a lot of impossible women and emasculated men.

And this PUA talk that some people are still going on about, why is anyone even discussing that diarrhea on here? PUA is useless on a marriage-minded woman or any woman who has any degree of character, integrity, or intellect and in fact it actually backfires abroad where men and women connect normally and psycho games are completely unnecessary for all. In fact, the only women snared by it are themselves only looking for the next fling or next ride or next chump. The North American fixation on it is a sign of just how far gone things are. Grow a set of balls and take a stand for something and let it be known to the women you meet that you are a man and she is a woman. Do not act like a cartoon character with this PUA nonsense. When I see insecure men using it now, I feel empathy and embarrassment at the same time. They should just grow balls and speak frankly to women and women should act like women and respond accordingly. Thats right, I said grow balls.



Kimiko wrote:Hi, well I have some things to say about this thread and this forum in general...I say "in general" since of course there are a variety of human experiences and responses to consider. I am an American born female in my early 40's. I guess I would be considered Amerasian (I'm half Japanese and half Jewish). I grew up in Southern California, the capitol of superficiality, LOL.

Anyways, I just started reading some of these posts so not sure the ratio of men to women, but guessing more men are writing on here I suppose. Okay, maybe I'm not conducting a formal study, so what I have to say would be considered anecdotal. I am college educated, but currently unemployed. I always preferred to be more or less independent, but I was never one to argue against a man to pay my way out to dinner for example. What I read on here seems like American men are really angry and disappointed in American women. Well, I was raised in a biracial home (first generation immigrants), and I can tell you that foreign women or men are not necessarily "better" mates than Americans. If anything, I noticed Asian women, for example to be rather overbearing and sometimes calculating. American women of course do have their problems too- they bought into the radical feminist ideal of being some type of superwoman. Herein lies the problem, I feel. There is a discrepancy between the hard won goals and achievements American woman have succeeded in, and the inability of American males to keep up with them.

Now don't get me wrong, I tend to be somewhat old fashioned and believe that women should probably stay home with young children and raise them without them becoming latchkey kids. So I am flexible on my opinion on this matter. But why so much anger at American females from U.S. men? Has it ever occurred to some of you U.S. males that you guys have lost your chivalry, charm, even manliness? I for one have noticed it, though I have never argued with a man over it since I think many of them would deny my observations. As for myself, not only am I college educated (not that having a degree means everything), I am considered attractive, fairly fit, and intelligent. But I hadn't dated in over a decade until recently when I met my Persian boyfriend. He actually treats me like a lady. I tell people I hadn't dated in a decade and they are shocked. They can't understand why, but my female friends who deal with the same issues I do understand fully the loss of American male-ness and how it affects their dating and marriage prospects. Most American men don't talk to me, even if I am nice to them. They are kindly civilized, but don't seem that interested beyond casual talk. Some of them flirt with me, and I do respond positively, but they then stop and move on.

I have also noticed this phenomenon happen with other American women. They too have educations, are attractive, nice to talk to, but hardly any worthwhile, well raised men want to bother to ask the out for some reason. Its a real mystery. Well, I don't think its a mystery actually, I think this is all a product of living in a society where life is fast and superficial. Americans work hard and expect alot. In some ways they deserve what they get for their hard work. But in other ways, they have lost their humanity. This applies to American males too. They seem detached themselves- how can it be that American women are the only ones that are "unapproachable" and American males are not? I don't see this happening in the general environment. I think another problem is a lack of communication between Americans of both genders; a breakdown if you ask me. So no one understands the other, and nothing productive comes out of people of the opposite sex who might otherwise be compatible if they gave one another a chance.

I have noticed young women these days to be very desperate to meet men, but feel the men are not in their league- NOT because they have to be "rich" but because they don't have the same education level, the same earning level, and they are crude and have no regard for appreciating females from their own country. So in their delusion, I'm sorry to say, they believe they can go overseas to discover what they think they don't have when its in their own backyard, no pun intended. I know many people who have lived overseas, and though there are differences, the main ones is that the social structure is different, not the women themselves necessarily. Europeans and Asian women are not always the "easy" to get along with types either when you get to really know them. I think there is more social life in foreign countries compared to the U.S., but not sure the people are all that different. When I was last in Japan, I thought the people to be quiet and keep to themselves in general. I had friends who lived in England, and they said British women were the worst of the lot. Russian women are perhaps nicer since their men are not so nice to them...so keep that in mind- if men are also nice to women, maybe women will also be nice to them too.
:wink:
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Re: A civilized rebuttal...

Postby NorthAmericanguy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:12 pm

Jackal wrote:
Kimiko wrote:What I read on here seems like American men are really angry and disappointed in American women.

"Seems"? You clearly have little idea what many American men have to go through while growing up in a society like America which is leveraged against them. If you wish to learn, then stay. If you have absolutely no empathy for what we feel, then please leave. America is already full of self-important, ice-cold women and we don't need any more of them.

Kimiko wrote:Well, I was raised in a biracial home (first generation immigrants), and I can tell you that foreign women or men are not necessarily "better" mates than Americans. If anything, I noticed Asian women, for example to be rather overbearing and sometimes calculating.

So? You haven't been to all the countries of the world. You only mentioned your own personal observations of people from a few of them. This doesn't disprove anything. I notice this is a typical scare tactic used in the American media. They find a few examples of bad things in a certain region abroad and then make the incorrect generalization that everything in that region is bad. For example, I once read an article about the options for recent American college grads and in it there was a sentence which was something like "Thinking of going to Europe? Well, think again. Look at all the problems in Greece and Spain..." Of course, problems in Greece and Spain do not say a damn thing about Slovakia or Estonia.

I am in Hungary and I find Hungarian women to be much nicer in general. Of course some are stuck up bitches like you'd find anywhere, but most are more traditional women than American women. They cook for their men on holidays. They dress like women, and they act like women, rather than bloodthirsty vultures who are only looking for social status. And most are actually polite when rejecting men. Also, it's socially acceptable for men to date much younger women here than they ever could in the US. Think about this from a man's perspective. Men prefer younger women. Men are happier where they can get younger women who are nicer to them. It's that simple.

People like to be where they have an advantage. Men have an advantage in many countries outside the US. Women clearly have the advantage in the US. Also being a "foreigner" abroad can convey other advantages (and disadvantages) as well.

Kimiko wrote:American women of course do have their problems too- they bought into the radical feminist ideal of being some type of superwoman. Herein lies the problem, I feel.
There is a discrepancy between the hard won goals and achievements American woman have succeeded in, and the inability of American males to keep up with them.

Congratulations, that would be a completely socially acceptable thesis statement if you were writing a paper for any American college, but mere conformity isn't enough to see the truth. You say that your parents are first-generation immigrants, but few countries demand conformity as much as America does. The children of even first-generation immigrants in American usually lose most of their parents' traditions and culture and few learn the language of their parents well. Regardless of your eye shape or skin hue, you have been conditioned from birth to be an American woman.

Your statements do describe part of the problem, but your assumptions are the typical American feminist ones which lead to conclusions which always blame men and praise women (other ones are not tolerated in the American education system or media).

Indeed, many men in America are lagging behind women, not because of some innate flaw, but as the result of the influence of the education system and the media. Women are constantly praised in the media for simply being women and have endless options and support networks, whereas men are often vilified and blamed for the smallest flaws. Teachers in American grade schools and middle schools are mostly women who are feminists who preach feminism and praise girls and demean boys. Even by the third grade, many American girls are well on their way to becoming all-American super-bitches.

Kimiko wrote:Now don't get me wrong, I tend to be somewhat old fashioned and believe that women should probably stay home with young children and raise them without them becoming latchkey kids. So I am flexible on my opinion on this matter. But why so much anger at American females from U.S. men? Has it ever occurred to some of you U.S. males that you guys have lost your chivalry, charm, even manliness? I for one have noticed it, though I have never argued with a man over it since I think many of them would deny my observations.

Tell me something, Kimiko. If you were a man and most of the time when you acted politely and chivalrously with women you were criticized or simply ignored, would you continue to do it? Furthermore, if you saw dominant men acting rudely to women and succeeding with them, wouldn't you question whether women wanted chivarly or not? This happens all the time in American life because most American women like the "bad boy" or jock-turned-businessman types.

Most of us here do indeed want to be kind gentlemen to women. But many American women (perhaps excluding you) act rudely to men even if the men are kind to them. Those of us here are simply tired of all that shit, tired of this double-standard, and tired of being American feminists' emotional punching bags. It's logical for us to move if we can get a better deal someplace else.

Kimiko wrote:As for myself, not only am I college educated (not that having a degree means everything)

Just so you don't go on with the assumption that most of the people here are uneducated, I should mention that many of us have degrees or are in college now. I myself have a degree in mathematics.

Kimiko wrote: Most American men don't talk to me, even if I am nice to them. They are kindly civilized, but don't seem that interested beyond casual talk. Some of them flirt with me, and I do respond positively, but they then stop and move on.

This is because they have been brutally shot down too many times by obnoxious American women. If you could ever feel what we have felt, you would understand. Your Persian boyfriend didn't have to deal with all this bullshit while he was growing up because he grew up in a man-worshipping culture which boosted his self-esteem instead of mercilessly tearing it down.

Kimiko wrote:I have also noticed this phenomenon happen with other American women. They too have educations, are attractive, nice to talk to, but hardly any worthwhile, well raised men want to bother to ask the out for some reason.

Be very careful about what your standard for "worthwhile" is. Many of us here are fit, decent-looking, educated, and well-traveled, but that barely gets a man a cup of coffee in the American dating scene. I don't think you care so much about any of those characteristics as you do about the social status of the man. Is he important? Will your friends be jealous when you tell them about him? (Note that this implies that he fits some pre-established mold which has been promoted by the society's media.)

Kimiko wrote:So no one understands the other, and nothing productive comes out of people of the opposite sex who might otherwise be compatible if they gave one another a chance.

Yeah, but it's much more often women who are doing the rejecting. Get a pretty girl to try asking out 100 random American men. I would guess that most of them would say, "Yes." Find a guy with the same level of good looks and have him try to ask out 100 random American women. Far fewer will say, "Yes." I guarantee it.


Kimiko wrote:I have noticed young women these days to be very desperate to meet men, but feel the men are not in their league- NOT because they have to be "rich" but because they don't have the same education level, the same earning level, and they are crude and have no regard for appreciating females from their own country.

Well, poor them. They might actually have to f**k a guy who is one notch below their lofty expecations. American women are now reaping the consequences of artificially raising themselves above men in the media.

Maybe those women you talk about would like me. Maybe they wouldn't. I could care less. I'm never returning to America. I get far more respect and kindness here.

Another thing is what is your definition of "young"? If these women you're describing are in their 30s, then it's logical that men find them less desirable, despite any of their other achievements. All this "Sex in the City" "cougar" crap is an invention of the American media which preys upon the desperation of most American men. Nature dictates otherwise.

J.Adama wrote:These are the women who insist that men become more sensitive. Then when men have become way too sensitive for them, they go back to saying that men should be more masculine. But masculinity is vilified and evil. In short, they dont think women should change at all, unless it is to become more masculine. But regardless men should do all the work and play the infinite guessing game balancing act between the level of masculinity and femininity each individual American woman will demand from him.

You hit the nail on the f***ing head. I couldn't agree more.



Excellent responses.
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Re: A civilized rebuttal...

Postby NorthAmericanguy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:08 pm

Kimiko wrote:American woman have succeeded in, and the inability of American males to keep up with them.


Have Amercian woman really succeeded when most of these American kids today are growing up dysfunctional and overweight because Amercian women put all their energy into pushing papers in a office instead of their own kids?

Kimiko wrote:Has it ever occurred to some of you U.S. males that you guys have lost your chivalry, charm, even manliness?


While I agree that many Amercian men are not as masculine apposed to the 70's, I can categorically tell you that the act of chivalry is looked at as a weakness to amercian women unless it's a special occasion (i.e valentines day).

Just like the other poster said, if you are too nice to Amercian women, they will think you're too sensitive and will be repulsed by you; especially the sector of women who are into dating "thugs."

To add to this, Amercian women are not even worth it to be given such respect. Amercian women today are loudmouth and vulgar, overweight, and rude. Many also chain smoke and carry themselves like drunken sailors any chance they can get. And this is all wrapped up in a personality that wants to challenge men all the time just to prove a point.

Any woman like this can open her own f*** door and take herself out because I don't want anything to do with a woman as such.

Kimiko wrote:Most American men don't talk to me, even if I am nice to them.


Because we know that women like you are fake. We know that your kindness is only a mask until you get what you want (i.e babies, marriage).


Kimiko wrote:I have also noticed this phenomenon happen with other American women. They too have educations, are attractive, nice to talk to, but hardly any worthwhile, well raised men want to bother to ask the out for some reason.

I have noticed young women these days to be very desperate to meet men, but feel the men are not in their league- NOT because they have to be "rich" but because they don't have the same education level, the same earning level, and they are crude and have no regard for appreciating females from their own country.



There are many worthwhile men in the dating market, it's just, as soon as women like you get a degree, your head swells up and you feel you are better then others who don't have degree.

Let me break the news to you (and other woman lurking), unless you work at NASA, or you're developing cutting edge technology at Lockheed Martin, most of you women are nothing more then glorified paper pushers. And you women can barely do that effectively because many of you women spend all your time facebooking or surfing the internet forums such as this while at work!

I have met women like you before, so I know the arrogance first hand. The last woman I was thinking about courting told me a story that she thought it was hilarious that a male cash register attendant tried to ask her out on a date. She thought he was beneath her simply because he bagged her groceries. Dumb girl, he could have been the owners son, or he could have been saving his money so he could start his own business.

Anyway, I'm sick of women like you, for centuries men have married down, and have dated poor women, and now that you women have a little money and power for yourselves, now most men are not even good enough for you. You ladies all feel you deserve the investment banker now that you have your little silly degree in "English studies" or whatever. What a joke.
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Postby ajushi » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:53 pm

Everything Jackal and North American guy wrote - that's really hard truth and there is bitterness in it, but pretty much all of it hits the mark right on. Women in the US have got serious issues now and I feel a lot of empathy for the women themselves. the situation is pretty fu**ed, but there is still hope.
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Postby Aware » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:17 am

American culture worships greed...that's a plain fact. It is everywhere. It is shoved down your throat from morning 'till sundown, each and every day. And the greed isn't limited to accumulation of money or material goods -- it is also a greed that grabs for fame and attention and adulation. We are taught from a young age that celebrities are valued more highly than "regular" people -- that they are more interesting than anyone else, that they have more money and comfort than anyone else, and that they should be listened to above most others.

Women seem to be highly affected by the media's worship of greed and status. I don't know if they are affected more than men, and I guarantee men ARE hypnotized by this depravity as well, but I seem to see more of it in each Western woman I meet (and it's getting worse with each new generation).

Western Women want to be celebrities. They are conditioned to want this, and what is disappointing to me is how few of them are strong enough to see through this bullshit.

Obviously not all women can be a celebrity, so they try to attain a status as close to celebrity as possible. They want to be desired by EVERY man they meet, and they want to be envied by EVERY woman they meet. This is why most men are not good enough for a woman. How can other women envy them if their husband or boyfriend "is a barber" or "is a waiter" or some other "regular" profession. They just wouldn't be able to stand the indifferent looks of their friends and family when they mention that they're significant other "works in a factory." They would much rather be greeted with astonishment and hidden jealousy when they gush about their husband: "This is my boyfriend, Sam...he's a doctor."

Well, sorry ladies...not all men are doctors or movie stars or billionaire entrepreneurs.

Me, personally, I don't GIVE A SHIT what a woman does for a living. I don't care if she is a dishwasher, or a waitress, or if her only form of transportation is a bicycle. What I care about is if she is a decent human being with similar values to mine, if she is healthy, honest, loyal, and open minded. Her status means nothing to me. What type of family she comes from means nothing to me. What part of town she comes from means nothing to me.

And I am so, so thankful that my soul has not been twisted like those of most American women out there, because at least I'll have a chance at being happy with what I have. They will NEVER be satisfied.
The dating scene in America: 500 men are fishing in an eroded little pond. There are 20 fish in the water. 10 of those fish have already been caught and released back in. The other 10 are dead.
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Postby jamesbond » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:57 am

Aware wrote: Well, sorry ladies...not all men are doctors or movie stars or billionaire entrepreneurs.


The funny thing is, even average looking women in the US think they deserve a rich husband! WTF? :shock:

Well, I have a news flash for American women, only beauty queens get to marry millionaires. :D
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Postby ajushi » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:32 am

I'm mostly with Globe trotter in this thread.

We all talk about the woes of modern US society - and it is indeed disturbing what has happened in the US in the past 30 - 50 years. It is outright scary to look around at the number of single moms, the divorce rate, and the way women discard men, and the hyper independence and disconnectedness, etc..... It is true that the social dynamic and ease of connecting and the mentality in general is WAY healthier and better abroad. Its all true and we don't need to talk about it at all - anyone can open their eyes and see it for themselves and these issues are becoming part of the mainstream dialogue in US society.

And we all talk about freeing ourselves up from the misery of these psychotic relationships with flippant or relationally traumatized American women and aiming for something more pleasant by marrying a woman from another culture. a nice idea.

However, the first point I want to make is that it turns out that this requires one person or the other to expatriate or reverse assimilate and to stick with it for the rest of your life. These things are extremely difficult and extremely bold to do even for non-rejectors, and carries a tremendous burden of real challenges and bold sacrifices for even the most well-adjusted person. For rejectors, which is a very high percentage of people who feel compelled to expatriate in the first place (obviously, that is why they feel compelled to expatriate), it is next to impossible. This is better summarized as "wake up and smell the napalm."

And now to the next point.... its about facing reality.


You, Winston - you are one of the most maladjusted and unwilling to face reality persons I have ever read words from. Lots of the people who post here are and I in fact am also a pretty mal-adjusted individual myself.

What you have said about the fact that a counselor can not provide love, acceptance, or companionships is 100% correct. Yes, there is a need for those things in a person's life and finding them in America, when starting out essentially as an orphan with no preexisting multi-generational family or close friendships, is like trying to build a house out of wood matches with broken fingers. I might have better luck winning the lottery. Yes, in fact America is socially disconnected and isolated and ruined with a multi-generational pattern of divorce and relational abandonment. But this does not mean your issues are not real or not abnormal.

While society is a little F'd up here, it is also true that you are maladjusted and struggling with serious issues and maybe traumas and it is not all society's fault. This can not be addressed or improved at all by expatriating, something you should have started to find out the hard way by now where ever you have moved to. The purpose of counseling is to learn how to understand and improve upon, deal with, and heal one's own psychological trauma, etc... and to try to use it to do something useful in life - not to find love, acceptance, and companionship from the counselor or anyone.

Both are true - that society is messed in the US and that you have serious issues. The point here is that this is what you have to deal with and work with - it fixes nothing to move to another country other than to make it possible to find a hotter girlfriend/wife. And the locals can see how out of place an expat is and they are very aware of how unlikely it is that the expat will even still be there in 2 years.... so what kind of crazy woman is going to ante up with an expat? Wake up people.

To the topic of spirituality that has come up, I will be the outsider here...... I follow Jesus Christ and He is my master and my guide, and I have Christian values, beliefs, convictions, and so on, and yet I acknowledge the disintegration of our civilization, the dysfunctional dynamic between women and men, the displacement of the American man which is simply becoming a superfluous, unnecessary, and emasculated figure in society now where we compete for single mothers, traumatized women, and women who are more masculine than we are, and if we do get married, there is a >50% chance that our wives will divorce us (since about 85% of divorces are initiated by the women and 55 - 75% of marriages end in divorce). The only men I see getting married at all in US now are very well-adjusted, solid guys from solid backgrounds, and even these ones are confronted with about a 50% chance of being abandoned. I can't find a single example of a man from my kind of background who married, much less one who married a relatively healthy woman. Women from messed up backgrounds are much more likely to be able to find a partner because men do not have the instinctual tendency that women have to look for a partner who is very financially secure, stable, has a family, etc,.... and this is why we see so many homeless men and very few homeless women. I have noted rare exceptions where 2 really messed up people get married.


But we have to own where we are at and look at our selves. I'm glad I had that breakthrough while I was abroad, as agonizing as it was. I was shocked at how healthy the people were, so many of them coming from solid families, married parents, active and close knit social lives. It made me take a brutally honest look at my own life, get real about it, and understand that I can't necessarily improve a thing by moving to the Philippines etc.... I could maaaaaybe find a beautiful girlfriend or wife, but my issues would not be one bit more healed or better and I would also be dealing with adding years of culture shock and transition and would have nothing to come back to by the time I returned (if ever).

Take Terrence here for example - the breakthrough he is having (or should be, if he is not) is that his issue is that he is a lazy person who does not want to work, live with a purpose, and do something productive with his life. At the same time, he has abandoned the multi-generational family he describes that raised and supported and loved him, leaving them to fend for themselves while he lolly gags abroad chasing hot Asian women..... as if these Asian women are going to somehow matter in the long run. Meanwhile, his family needs him back in the states. he has shrugged both family and work in favor of Asian women.

When you dig to the heart of it, expatriating usually turns out to be about escapism. You can not escape unless you have no conscience. I met a couple of people out there like that. Scary people.

If you do go to live abroad, you should have something to come back to (family, friends, and a home), you should have a useful work purpose abroad that can not be achieved just as easily here, and you should not go at all if it involves abandoning your family or chasing women. If you lack this here and you are just ranting about how f***ed America is, then you are kidding yourself if you think you are going to find it out there. Why do you think you lack it here in the first place?

The hardest thing to do in life is to face reality and do something about it.
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So What?

Postby Asia Outback » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:54 pm

Do you think you will start your own site called "Happier At Home"? True, one cannot escape many problems simply by moving abroad,
but you seem very judgmental about people who expatriate. I wonder how long you spent abroad at any rate to come up with a comment
like this-

"it fixes nothing to move to another country other than to make it possible to find a hotter girlfriend/wife. And the locals can see how out of place an expat is and they are very aware of how unlikely it is that the expat will even still be there in 2 years.... so what kind of crazy woman is going to ante up with an expat? Wake uppeople. ". That is a pretty ignorant comment. You contradict yourself by discrediting the reasons men might move abroad, yet go on to cite a long list of US pathologies. Many of us have lived abroad for years, have a wife and children as I do and I am not at all out of place. Perhaps you felt out of place when you were abroad?

Even with my kids I see advantages for them. They are growing up to be multi-lingual/multi-cultural and have a very different perspective
than a typical American nimrod. You seem certain that when an expat leaves, it will be a case of abandonment. Sure that happens, but less often than in the USA. Most expats with wives and families do something kind of normal, like move with their family if that is the plan.
Maintaining ties to ones original homeland can be important for sure, and I put some effort into making sure that if I move my family back to the states, we will have something to come back to.

You speak as if the only improvements to be had with "foreign" women is that they are better looking. Huh? In other words, there are plenty of great girls in the USA, they just dont happen to be has hot as Asian girls, and that is the only difference?
Some men have thought about it a bit more and decided they did not want a lemon-sucking shrew for a wife, and hence they look abroad.
In the Bible itself, Abraham sent to a far country to find a wife for his son as none of the locals were suitable.

You may be happier at home, but a lot of expats are at home where they are Of course, some are miserable wherever they go, its up to you.


Jake
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Postby gsjackson » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:50 pm

Two things to note about Ajushi's post. First, as Jake suggests, it is outside the fundamental premise of this website. It says, in effect, that all problems are ultimately personal, and do not have a social or political solution. If you are discontent, you need to look within, not outward to the culture in which you live. The premise of this site is the opposite: The culture may be trying to convince you in a myriad of ways that you alone are the source of your discontent, but that might not necessarily be so. Go someplace else and find out. Maybe you fit better elsewhere.

It's not as if Ajushi's point is anything new. It is the fundamental American 'insight' -- that all problems are personal, because through your mind you have complete control over your circumstances. You won't find this perspective anywhere else in the world in the same measure. It's the product of America's unique hodgepodge of individualism, Calvinism, materialism, self-help and a few other exotic ingredients.

A French sociologist, Herve Varenne, spent a couple of years in the U.S., and observed the unique role that individualism plays in American life. In the U.S., he found, people were always engaged in a dialectic about individualism and community. Americans always found community elusive, always just beyond their reach, but they believed deep in their Emersonian souls that before they could enjoy the fruits of community, they must bring their individuality into full flower. This is a never-ending quest. In Europe and elsewhere it is different, Varenne maintained. They scarcely even had the concepts of individualism and community. Community was something they were embedded in naturally, much like the air they breathe.

It's possible that someday Americans might come to understand that most personal problems have a social solution -- one that benefits all -- and even that they might understand, as our own philosopher John Dewey argued, that individuality is a product of community, not vice versa. Until that happens, given the current state of American social pathology, leaving is the best option for most who want to live intelligently and honestly.
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Postby gsjackson » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:46 am

To follow up on the above, here's a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson, considered the father of American individualism: "I pack my trunk, embrace my friends, embark on the sea, and at last wake up in Naples, and there beside me is the Stern Fact, the Sad Self, unrelenting, identical, that I fled from."

We all understand the truth in this -- as it's been put here a few times: wherever you go, there you are. But Emerson would be the first to say that even his insights can become the stale conventional wisdom of a decaying society. His America 170 years ago was a very different place from the one we live in today. He would tell people to follow the inner voice, to Naples, the RP, or wherever it directs.
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Re: So What?

Postby ajushi » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:11 am

Asia Outback wrote:Do you think you will start your own site called "Happier At Home"? True, one cannot escape many problems simply by moving abroad,
but you seem very judgmental about people who expatriate. I wonder how long you spent abroad at any rate to come up with a comment
like this-

"it fixes nothing to move to another country other than to make it possible to find a hotter girlfriend/wife. And the locals can see how out of place an expat is and they are very aware of how unlikely it is that the expat will even still be there in 2 years.... so what kind of crazy woman is going to ante up with an expat? Wake uppeople. ". That is a pretty ignorant comment. You contradict yourself by discrediting the reasons men might move abroad, yet go on to cite a long list of US pathologies. Many of us have lived abroad for years, have a wife and children as I do and I am not at all out of place. Perhaps you felt out of place when you were abroad?

Even with my kids I see advantages for them. They are growing up to be multi-lingual/multi-cultural and have a very different perspective
than a typical American nimrod. You seem certain that when an expat leaves, it will be a case of abandonment. Sure that happens, but less often than in the USA. Most expats with wives and families do something kind of normal, like move with their family if that is the plan.
Maintaining ties to ones original homeland can be important for sure, and I put some effort into making sure that if I move my family back to the states, we will have something to come back to.

You speak as if the only improvements to be had with "foreign" women is that they are better looking. Huh? In other words, there are plenty of great girls in the USA, they just dont happen to be has hot as Asian girls, and that is the only difference?
Some men have thought about it a bit more and decided they did not want a lemon-sucking shrew for a wife, and hence they look abroad.
In the Bible itself, Abraham sent to a far country to find a wife for his son as none of the locals were suitable.

You may be happier at home, but a lot of expats are at home where they are Of course, some are miserable wherever they go, its up to you.


Jake


Oh, you bet I felt out of place. What I found more disconcerting was that the other expats I saw seemed equally out of place, and I also learned that a lot of them, if not most of them, return to their home country eventually anyway in the long run.

The ones who do not, it takes 10 + years to really adapt, and even then, it will obviously never be right. They'll always be an outsider who abandoned their own friends, parents, etc to go teach English or something in another country in attempt to find a better social life and a wife/girlfriend, reviled by the people who hate americans, and practically worshiped by the ones who love them (you can find both in any society outside the US in the second tier economies).

Sent for a wife, I like the sound of that. Id love to try that, on the prayer that she would be able to deal with the culture shock and loss of her family and so on, but expat to find one.... not likely and can not recommend it based on what I learned form experience

What I just said is truth
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Postby ajushi » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:41 am

And yes there are exceptions for sure. But rare. There are even some American couples who live in particular cities abroad for the better quality of life and less rigid/insane US mentality of money-work-materialism-overly complex system. But rare.

But most of them are terribly lost people with nothing to come back to, or they have something to come back to but they walked on it. Many of them are outsiders in their own society and that's why they are out there in the first place. And ALL of them will be a curiosity to all, reviled by some, and practically worshiped by others, unless you settle in a really muti-cultural/multinational crowd where there are plenty of Westerners mixed with the people of the host country (I am not even aware of a city that meets this description outside of the US). It is a very unnatural dynamic. If you ask most expats pointed questions about what they are doing out there, more than half of them seem incapable of giving a straight answer and some of them look like you just punched them in the gut. A lot of them are on guard and seem secretive. That's because they are wanderers, lost souls, wounded people, carrying inner conflict about leaving their family, their friends, their society, or running from their traumatic past, or they are just a nut job out there banging every hot chick they can get with.

One of the most shocking things I found is what a bullshit job teaching ESL is. In many of the places popular for ESL teachers, you don't even need any kind of legitimate credentials and the work standard is a joke, and finally, it is doing almost nothing for the society at large. Again, there are exceptions to this and some of the people really make an effort to make a legitimate go at being a professorial about it, but this is very very rare and again, most of them wind up back in the US in the long run and never really can be integrated at all into the host society.

Now I will say that the social vibe is wonderful, the ease of establishing community is incomparable to the USA, the women are amazingly easy to approach or connect with etc... making new friends is easy, and I could see myself finding a woman to marry a LOT easier than the states. Easy to find a teaching job also, even if it is a bullshit job. but that doesn't change anything else I just said.

Expating is a very serious endeavor and a major sacrifice, even if you deal with the culture shock well, and it should be done with a purpose, a plan, and something to fall back on in the home country, unless you are expating as a refugee for survival.

I met many American expats, some had been abroad for years, and not a single of them was married. Why? Go back and reread what I've said in the other post. Because what I have said is all true - that's the reasons why they aren't married. Come to think of it, I know more married American men here in the US.

This is all smoke and mirrors and I know now that probably about half the people posting in this board have never even been abroad, much less lived there. This whole forum presents this asburd fantasy that people can go abroad and find a fantasy life and your social woes and relationship woes will be resolved. That is a total fallacy and it is not a good reason to expat. The ones who hold that idea are either outright crazy or lost (like some of the ones I met abroad) or have just never been abroad to get the real picture.


Dont forget insane air pollution, undrinkable tap water, and things like sex trafficking and slavery and incredibly high rates of tobacco smokers, are common place once you cross the ocean, unless you are in a place like Japan or S Korea. I found all that out first hand also.

I find it odd that no one addresses the full picture here - it is all just "go abroad, its like disney land out there!!!!!!"

I mean Ill be honest, I was so shocked to see this website by the time I had been abroad for a few months and experienced this stuff first hand. Winston has nothing but beautiful women and fantasy ideas posted on here.
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Postby ajushi » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:11 am

Chemist wrote:Now, in contrast to Poland, at my college in America, girls pay attention to me only at parties, which seems like Winston said to be one of the only places that it is socially acceptable in America for people to meet each other. Other than that they have this complete uncrackable "bitch-shield" up.


Yes, I hear this alot. But frankly, I don't see it.

Catching an American girl in a public place is the best time to start off conversation. The parties are the worst place, that's when they have the shield up. But catching them at a bus stop or bookstore is even better. They're just minding their own business.

Luke, if how you describe yourself is true, than women should have no problem with you approaching unless there is something wrong with your delivery.


What on earth country is Chemist talking about


You sound like you think women are naturally and easily approachable in the US..... lol.

In the US. If I use game, charm, jokes, personality, and all manner of intentional and artificial delivery, then sure I can get a few phone numbers in an hour no problem. But do that 1,000 times and you still wont be married to one of them. And if you are just yourself, you may as well piss into the wind, because get ready for a lot of rejection, condescension, and arrogance.

Now abroad on the other hand, it is exactly like the man Luke said. You can literally walk up to a woman who looks like a model, WAY above American beauty standards, and enter into a normal conversation and totally just be yourself. It is so easy, you dont even need to try. You write like you read this stuff in a book and have no actual experience. With American women, the bitch shield is WAY up in public, and at parties or bars, the bitch shield goes down a bit due to drunkenness and the kind of intentions women are more likely to have there.
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