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Working Holiday for Americans

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby mrmillersd » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:30 am

Ireland is probably the worst country to start a small business....EU regulations, EXTREMELY high taxes, extremely high labor costs in the EU. I would read up on EU business laws if i were you....Ireland is not a high yield place, nor fiscally secure with the Euro Crisis still looming...

Here is a great place to start:
http://ec.europa.eu/small-business/most ... dex_en.htm
mrmillersd
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Postby Tsar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:59 am

mrmillersd wrote:Ireland is probably the worst country to start a small business....EU regulations, EXTREMELY high taxes, extremely high labor costs in the EU. I would read up on EU business laws if i were you....Ireland is not a high yield place, nor fiscally secure with the Euro Crisis still looming...

Here is a great place to start:
http://ec.europa.eu/small-business/most ... dex_en.htm


I never said Ireland was a good place to start a small business. All high income, Western countries are not small business friendly.
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Postby Tsar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:49 am

These are a few examples of how difficult it is for immigrants to create small businesses when moving to industrial, developed nations. I wouldn't really want to move to any of the examples but it's a good indication that they mainly want millionaires, culturally important people, and world class sports stars. They don't really want to attract young, entrepreneurial immigrants who are not wealthy.

Many of these countries are going through difficult economic times.

Canada (5 business, investor, or self-employment options)
1. Immigrant Investor Class: $1,600,000 minimum net worth, invest $800,000 into Canada with no interest which will be repaid about 63 months later. Basically if you want to immigrant under a business class and don't meet the other qualifications you have to be a millionaire.
2. Be culturally important or have participated in world class sports (most people won't qualify)
3. Farm management experience. Buy and operate a farm. (Most immigrants can't afford a farm or a loan)
4. Have commitment of support from a designated Canadian venture capital fund or angel investor group. Only five applications will be approved. Both the venture capital fund or angel investors would control large shares of the business and they would only approve of highly profitable business that offer large returns (usually tech companies which are better off being in America or lower tax countries)
5. Be an experienced business persons who will own and actively manage businesses. This is basically saying they want an already existing business person to leave their existing business (which might be very profitable), come to Canada, and own/operate a business.

U.K.
Invest £200,000 in a new UK business. Create full time employment for at least 2 EEA nationals
(EC Association Agreement countries are exempted from both requirements)


Ireland (Two options)
1.The Start-up Entrepreneur Programme:
*Non-EEA nationals with an innovative business idea and funding of €75,000 to come and set up a business. They must be capable of creating 10 jobs in Ireland and realising €1 million in sales within three to four years of starting up. Does not allow for retail, catering, personal services or similar businesses.
2. Business Permission:
You must have at least €300,000 of your own money to invest in business in Ireland. The business must create employment for at least 2 Irish or EEA/Swiss nationals or at least maintain employment in an existing business This will allow for the retail, catering, personal services, and similar business.

Germany
Invest at least 250,000 Euro and create five jobs.
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Postby mrmillersd » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:28 am

Well...they want people to contribute to the long term welfare of their country...

do you have a good education? Friend of mines at Princeton says that if you go to a top US school you can get citizenship MUCH more easily. Furthermore, you can tap into the alumni house at the nation you intend to move to and instantly have a host
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Postby Tsar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:08 am

mrmillersd wrote:Well...they want people to contribute to the long term welfare of their country...

do you have a good education? Friend of mines at Princeton says that if you go to a top US school you can get citizenship MUCH more easily. Furthermore, you can tap into the alumni house at the nation you intend to move to and instantly have a host


In my mind contributing to the long term welfare of a country is working, embracing their respective culture, not being a burden on their system, paying taxes, and if they have a business creating jobs adding a benefit to the local economy. It doesn't mean being inherently wealthy, buying your way in or instantly creating a medium-size business, or having to invest a large sum into a business and create a minimum number of jobs in a short time frame with a minimum income requirement. Businesses take time to grow and the wealthy can choose any country in the world so if they want to attract wealthy immigration they would have to be a very attractive destination. None of the places I mentioned in the previous post (Canada, UK, Ireland, Germany) seem attractive for wealthy immigrants. Wealthy immigrants would do very well in America or low cost of living, high opportunity, lower tax countries.

I would say I have a good education.

Ivy league colleges like Harvard, Yale, and Princeton mostly sell the name and their network. Students learn the same material they would anywhere else. It's the social circle, the career network, the recruiters, the name, and maybe the big name professors that they sell. They also cater to wealthy families and the ruling class who can afford to give their children access to that social circle. Many Ivy League colleges are also very feminist and liberal. No college education is worth $50,000, $100,000, or even $200,000 in student loans plus interest.

I don't think going to an Ivy League college gives an American any better chance at emigrating. What an Ivy League college will do is make it easier for an immigrant to successfully emigrate to America.

Many Ivy League American graduates would prefer to stay in America because all Ivy League graduates are likely to earn more staying in America becoming big name lawyers, big name CEOs, big name investment bankers, big name economies, or important politicians. Or they will get signed up with many American companies at $100,000 a year. Many American Ivy League degrees will also carry more weight inside America because the name is worth much more in America.

The only exception where someone at an Ivy League college might qualify for easier immigration is if they're a genius or have extraordinary abilities. Most Ivy League students are likely to be normal and ordinary people from privileged families or upper-class backgrounds.

No one can get citizenship easily. Unless the Head of State gives a person citizenship (and they wouldn't just because the person graduated from an Ivy League university) then they must follow the same paths to residency everyone else does which usually goes:
1. Residency Permit
2. Permanent Residency (Sometimes it begins here)
3. Citizenship (It can begin here if a person meets the Jus sanguinis requirements. Or they have a foreign-born parent that gives them a foreign citizenship)
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Postby mrmillersd » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:16 pm

The best thing is the network! I went to spain last year and a alumni hosted me for a month. Free living and job connections in MANY places....

Going to Princeton was cheaper than my own state school-my parents dont make too much, and I basically get amazing financial aid. NO WAY IN HELL id pay 50k a year PLUS for college hahaha. :lol:
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Postby Tsar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:10 pm

mrmillersd wrote:The best thing is the network! I went to spain last year and a alumni hosted me for a month. Free living and job connections in MANY places....

Going to Princeton was cheaper than my own state school-my parents dont make too much, and I basically get amazing financial aid. NO WAY IN HELL id pay 50k a year PLUS for college hahaha. :lol:


Princeton offers it's accepted students very good grant money so most students and their families would only need to cover $8,000-$10,000 out of pocket or with loans. I agree that it would be cheaper than many other colleges but it's much more competitive since most class sizes average 1,300.

A conservative estimate saying there are 1,300,000 high school graduates every year in America. There will also me many international applicants especially from countries where their governments will give them grants to study abroad. There will also be many returning students and adult students going back for a new major which will add to possible the competition. In addition to the competition many colleges have caps for the class size of their business college, engineering college, law college, etc. So in reality there might only be 150 or 200 open slots for the program that the person applies for and a conservative figure for the competition to get into that program would be 10,000.

Limiting the number of applications allows for the students that do get in to receive better benefits, have lower debt, and have better financial aid. But not everyone will be lucky enough to have that opportunity. It's similar to the fact that good jobs in America are scarce and most Americans are unemployed or underemployed.

A person might apply for a good position at Google, a management position in Microsoft, or an investment banking job at JP Morgan but so have 1,000 other people. Working at one of those countries would be just like an Ivy League degree on a resume because you have the brand name on your resume. But very few people will ever work at one of those companies. Many times it's about knowing someone who will get you that good job. Otherwise no matter how intelligent, skilled, and ambitious the person is they won't get a good job unless they create their own job.

America isn't a meritocracy, it's more of a plutocracy and a caste system. There is the country club of the elites and once in awhile there will be people who are lucky enough to get one of the available spots, for everyone else they will be waiting on the elites and serving the elites.

The New York Times last week had a report about how the myth of the American meritocracy is just that - a myth. In fact, of all the countries in the industrialized world, it is harder for a person of low economic status to rise higher in the United States than it is almost anywhere else. If America as the "land of opportunity" ever existed, it has disappeared, and this is primarily due to the policies pursued by the government. The governments of other developed countries make it their goal to protect and help their citizenry and to take care of those who are least able to take care of themselves.
Source: http://birdwoman-thenatureofthings.blog ... ystem.html


This blog posting and the New York Times Link is saying exactly what I have been saying. There is no or very little opportunity in America or most industrialized nations to raise your social status.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/ha ... anted=all&

Caste System in America: http://abitibibob.hubpages.com/hub/The- ... ste-System
Last edited by Tsar on Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Repatriate » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:17 pm

There is definitely more egalitarianism at work in various scandinavian countries etc.. where healthcare is free, education is mostly free, and you won't be crushed from unemployment. So it's definitely easier to get to middle class. However if you're starting a business it's a double edged sword because they have more taxes, your consumer base is smaller, and as a non-citizen most of the economic advantages of being in the E.U. will not be within your grasp.

I'm honestly not seeing how a move to western europe is a better deal economically speaking. Jobs are even scarcer in the major european countries not to mention they are very nativist.
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