Traveling for minority guys!
Traveling for minority guys!
If you are white then this is not for you.
I'd like to build any ideas that one might have as a minority guy that is traveling. I think HA is home to many of these minority guys and we can basically agree that we have unique needs and tips that we need to consider when traveling abroad.
In the end, it would be nice to have a discussion that addresses the needs of a minority guy who is traveling abroad. Winston was revolutionary in this regard.
"As a minority, it is damn hard to make it in America and damn harder still to make it outside of America"
The part two is found here
http://minorityguysabroad.blogspot.com/ ... s-and.html
I'd like to build any ideas that one might have as a minority guy that is traveling. I think HA is home to many of these minority guys and we can basically agree that we have unique needs and tips that we need to consider when traveling abroad.
In the end, it would be nice to have a discussion that addresses the needs of a minority guy who is traveling abroad. Winston was revolutionary in this regard.
"As a minority, it is damn hard to make it in America and damn harder still to make it outside of America"
The part two is found here
http://minorityguysabroad.blogspot.com/ ... s-and.html
Last edited by mguy on July 25th, 2013, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Veteran Poster
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What sort of ideas do you have in mind?
This topic has been addressed a lot. I recommend you read Ladislav's old posts about going places where you are relatively appreciated and have high value as a traveler.
From what i've gathered from many years of reading about this stuff and hearing from a lot of other globe trotting asian guys I could narrow it down but it's hard to get a good grasp on what places are really good as opposed to just neutral unless you've personally been there.
This is my own compiled list of places where the general consensus amongst asian male travelers seems to be positive to neutral.
In no particular order
Positive to neutral countries:
Europe
--------
France
Austria
Belarus
Poland
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Latvia
Hungary
Serbia
Netherlands
Estonia
Negative countries:
Europe
--------
Germany
Russia
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Czech Republic
U.K. including Ireland
Ukraine
I left out quite a few european countries since I didn't read enough trip reports to formulate any kind of opinion one way or another. Winston and others might argue with me about Russia and Ukraine but let's be real here..it's 2013 and it's a very dangerous situation for any kind of non-slav looking traveler in those places. I'd say many Russian women might be friendly but the ethnic situation is volatile there and you roll the dice big time as a non-white.
Positive to neutral:
Latin/Central America
---------------
Mexico
Brazil
Colombia
Peru
Costa Rica
Negative:
Latin/Central America
------------------------
Argentina
Chile
Again I left out a lot of countries in Latin America because I didn't read many trip reports or online accounts from asians who have traveled in the others to form a consensus view.
I'm going to leave out Asia because I feel that it depends a lot on your ethnic subgroup and your general appearance. Japan and Korea are not all that hospitable to other asians if you're not ethnically from those countries. I do know of Asian-Americans who weren't Japanese or Korean who lived in both and managed to have a decent time living and working there while dating women but I think it's very dependent on cultural knowledge and individual circumstances.
I also left out most of the anglosphere since we all know it's probably the worst collection of countries to be an asian male.
I don't know about Africa..too few accounts but I heard the mainland Chinese are giving all asians a bad rep there.
I left out the gulf arab and the middle eastern group too. It's a volatile region and from what I know the rich arabs look down on asians and the poor ones are too caught up in their own regional and religious tension for it to be any kind of good place to travel to.
Don't know about central asian countries either. The -stans look like they would accept asian travelers fine but too little data on that to go from.
This topic has been addressed a lot. I recommend you read Ladislav's old posts about going places where you are relatively appreciated and have high value as a traveler.
From what i've gathered from many years of reading about this stuff and hearing from a lot of other globe trotting asian guys I could narrow it down but it's hard to get a good grasp on what places are really good as opposed to just neutral unless you've personally been there.
This is my own compiled list of places where the general consensus amongst asian male travelers seems to be positive to neutral.
In no particular order
Positive to neutral countries:
Europe
--------
France
Austria
Belarus
Poland
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Latvia
Hungary
Serbia
Netherlands
Estonia
Negative countries:
Europe
--------
Germany
Russia
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Czech Republic
U.K. including Ireland
Ukraine
I left out quite a few european countries since I didn't read enough trip reports to formulate any kind of opinion one way or another. Winston and others might argue with me about Russia and Ukraine but let's be real here..it's 2013 and it's a very dangerous situation for any kind of non-slav looking traveler in those places. I'd say many Russian women might be friendly but the ethnic situation is volatile there and you roll the dice big time as a non-white.
Positive to neutral:
Latin/Central America
---------------
Mexico
Brazil
Colombia
Peru
Costa Rica
Negative:
Latin/Central America
------------------------
Argentina
Chile
Again I left out a lot of countries in Latin America because I didn't read many trip reports or online accounts from asians who have traveled in the others to form a consensus view.
I'm going to leave out Asia because I feel that it depends a lot on your ethnic subgroup and your general appearance. Japan and Korea are not all that hospitable to other asians if you're not ethnically from those countries. I do know of Asian-Americans who weren't Japanese or Korean who lived in both and managed to have a decent time living and working there while dating women but I think it's very dependent on cultural knowledge and individual circumstances.
I also left out most of the anglosphere since we all know it's probably the worst collection of countries to be an asian male.
I don't know about Africa..too few accounts but I heard the mainland Chinese are giving all asians a bad rep there.
I left out the gulf arab and the middle eastern group too. It's a volatile region and from what I know the rich arabs look down on asians and the poor ones are too caught up in their own regional and religious tension for it to be any kind of good place to travel to.
Don't know about central asian countries either. The -stans look like they would accept asian travelers fine but too little data on that to go from.
Ladislav had an awesome article about the hierarchy for ESL jobs, as a non-white person, you need to know that.
I think DJ also put some good arguments for ex-patting as the realm of the upper-class, but sk8board pretty much debunked it.
For minority guys, the biggest issue would be generating cash to fund their ventures, the cash problem I call it. From the internet most of the location-independents are mostly white, so there aren't many examples.
Winston is able to go around with this website and falcon is gallivanting in Thailand, so it can be done. But most minority guys that I know are from lower-to-lower-middle-class of the USA and are not exposed to a traveling culture or are not versed in the rules of global labor economics. Most of the companies abroad still prefer white employees.
In my time traveling, the ratio is probably 1 to 20 travelers in hostels is a minority guy. If the minority guy is into pickup his play will almost always be different -- information online is basically a big contradiction.
There's also a safety issue in some places for specific colors.
I think DJ also put some good arguments for ex-patting as the realm of the upper-class, but sk8board pretty much debunked it.
For minority guys, the biggest issue would be generating cash to fund their ventures, the cash problem I call it. From the internet most of the location-independents are mostly white, so there aren't many examples.
Winston is able to go around with this website and falcon is gallivanting in Thailand, so it can be done. But most minority guys that I know are from lower-to-lower-middle-class of the USA and are not exposed to a traveling culture or are not versed in the rules of global labor economics. Most of the companies abroad still prefer white employees.
In my time traveling, the ratio is probably 1 to 20 travelers in hostels is a minority guy. If the minority guy is into pickup his play will almost always be different -- information online is basically a big contradiction.
There's also a safety issue in some places for specific colors.
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- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 290
- Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 9:35 am
- Location: Bay Area, Nor-Cal
I think I need to be the pioneer for Mexican-Americans, since I am the only Mexican-American on this forum.
A bartender told me this while I was in Guadalajara Mexico:
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
Thailand is very welcoming and accepting of Asian ( Oriental) looking people based on my numerous observations. One condition though is that they will expect you to assimilate. Same I guess goes for the Philippines. If I were an Oriental looking dude, I'd go to Thailand in a heart beat.
Arabs/Turks do not look down on N/E Asian looking peoples- but who wants to go there to date? There is no dating there.
In Europe, Baltic countries and Finland are cool with N/E Asian guys based on what I have seen and heard.
As far as Russia and Ukraine, they often don't like anyone who does not look Slavic or Scandinavian because that is what they are. That includes people who have a Jewish look- they don't like it. On an individual level they are nice and friendly, but as a mass, not so.
In Latin America, the more mixed a country, the better. Colombia, Mexico, Panama, etc.
Arabs/Turks do not look down on N/E Asian looking peoples- but who wants to go there to date? There is no dating there.
In Europe, Baltic countries and Finland are cool with N/E Asian guys based on what I have seen and heard.
As far as Russia and Ukraine, they often don't like anyone who does not look Slavic or Scandinavian because that is what they are. That includes people who have a Jewish look- they don't like it. On an individual level they are nice and friendly, but as a mass, not so.
In Latin America, the more mixed a country, the better. Colombia, Mexico, Panama, etc.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I will confirm Thailand within year end. Falcon should chip in now. I have done Colombia and it gets a neutral review from me and I dont advise it to black men either, really asian looking dudes might do well.ladislav wrote:Thailand is very welcoming and accepting of Asian ( Oriental) looking people based on my numerous observations. One condition though is that they will expect you to assimilate. Same I guess goes for the Philippines. If I were an Oriental looking dude, I'd go to Thailand in a heart beat.
Arabs/Turks do not look down on N/E Asian looking peoples- but who wants to go there to date? There is no dating there.
In Europe, Baltic countries and Finland are cool with N/E Asian guys based on what I have seen and heard.
As far as Russia and Ukraine, they often don't like anyone who does not look Slavic or Scandinavian because that is what they are. That includes people who have a Jewish look- they don't like it. On an individual level they are nice and friendly, but as a mass, not so.
In Latin America, the more mixed a country, the better. Colombia, Mexico, Panama, etc.
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- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 290
- Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 9:35 am
- Location: Bay Area, Nor-Cal
most of the so-called "minorities" on this forum are asian-americans or blacks. I am the only Mexican-American who is active a lot on the forum. thing is, a lot of mexican-americans become ghetto losers (and they're winning in american society) or they manage to snatch some american or mexican girl, although not that good looking. I am one of those few mexican-americans who has thrown the towel on american women.mguy wrote:We are already pioneers. Second generation Winston Wu's. Not many minority guys are into this whole traveling thing even if they have all the reason to leave America.AnonymousAmerican wrote:I think I need to be the pioneer for Mexican-Americans, since I am the only Mexican-American on this forum.
A bartender told me this while I was in Guadalajara Mexico:
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.
The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.
The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.
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- Veteran Poster
- Posts: 2533
- Joined: June 15th, 2008, 11:39 am
I know of a couple Mexican-Americans who have been to Thailand and they did well there. One of them was a good friend from CA of a Thai-American friend of mine. He got attention in clubs and with the girls in the social circle and was generally thought of as a young farang guy. Thais generally aren't sophisticated enough to tell the difference between a European, a Mexican, or a Russian. What matters is personal appearance (and age) really. Well traveled Thais or Thais from the U.S. will certainly be cool with you since if they are Thai-American they probably grew up in CA around a ton of latinos.AnonymousAmerican wrote:
most of the so-called "minorities" on this forum are asian-americans or blacks. I am the only Mexican-American who is active a lot on the forum. thing is, a lot of mexican-americans become ghetto losers (and they're winning in american society) or they manage to snatch some american or mexican girl, although not that good looking. I am one of those few mexican-americans who has thrown the towel on american women.
The only issue is if you happen to be extremely dark skinned or you look indian or something then it might pose a bigger issue. If you're mestizo looking it's no prob.
For a Mexican-American i'd say that if you know Spanish you might kill in Eastern Europe or places like France. They love the latin/med. flavor there. That seems to be a pretty popular observation i've read about.
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- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 290
- Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 9:35 am
- Location: Bay Area, Nor-Cal
I have thrown the towel of trying to overcome in american society. I am only here until I can finish my degree here. once I do that, I am leaving the US and never coming back. in essence, I'll rather identify as Mexican than as an American because I lack any connection to american culture. only thing I have in connection is that the US is my birth country.mguy wrote:Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.
The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.
A bartender told me this while I was in Guadalajara Mexico:
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
What will you be doing in Mexico in a professional capacity? One needs to earn a living unless one is loaded.AnonymousAmerican wrote:I have thrown the towel of trying to overcome in american society. I am only here until I can finish my degree here. once I do that, I am leaving the US and never coming back. in essence, I'll rather identify as Mexican than as an American because I lack any connection to american culture. only thing I have in connection is that the US is my birth country.mguy wrote:Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.
The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.
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- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 290
- Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 9:35 am
- Location: Bay Area, Nor-Cal
I don't want to go to east asia. I simply am not attracted to east asian women (and I actually look egyptian more than mexican).Repatriate wrote:I know of a couple Mexican-Americans who have been to Thailand and they did well there. One of them was a good friend from CA of a Thai-American friend of mine. He got attention in clubs and with the girls in the social circle and was generally thought of as a young farang guy. Thais generally aren't sophisticated enough to tell the difference between a European, a Mexican, or a Russian. What matters is personal appearance (and age) really. Well traveled Thais or Thais from the U.S. will certainly be cool with you since if they are Thai-American they probably grew up in CA around a ton of latinos.AnonymousAmerican wrote:
most of the so-called "minorities" on this forum are asian-americans or blacks. I am the only Mexican-American who is active a lot on the forum. thing is, a lot of mexican-americans become ghetto losers (and they're winning in american society) or they manage to snatch some american or mexican girl, although not that good looking. I am one of those few mexican-americans who has thrown the towel on american women.
The only issue is if you happen to be extremely dark skinned or you look indian or something then it might pose a bigger issue. If you're mestizo looking it's no prob.
For a Mexican-American i'd say that if you know Spanish you might kill in Eastern Europe or places like France. They love the latin/med. flavor there. That seems to be a pretty popular observation i've read about.
and I know advanced spanish, as Spanish is my native language and I have to use spanish everyday because it's the only way I can talk to my family. I am actually wanting to go live in either spain, france, germany, a Balkan country, Israel, or Poland. I don't want to be in an english speaking country anymore.
A bartender told me this while I was in Guadalajara Mexico:
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
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- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 290
- Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 9:35 am
- Location: Bay Area, Nor-Cal
I don't want to go to Mexico. I want to leave the new world and go to either a continental European country or Israel.mguy wrote:What will you be doing in Mexico in a professional capacity? One needs to earn a living unless one is loaded.AnonymousAmerican wrote:I have thrown the towel of trying to overcome in american society. I am only here until I can finish my degree here. once I do that, I am leaving the US and never coming back. in essence, I'll rather identify as Mexican than as an American because I lack any connection to american culture. only thing I have in connection is that the US is my birth country.mguy wrote:Mexican-Americans have a lot to overcome in US society, much like any immigrant group. If you have the foresight to get this far, then you are a pioneer. Traveling abroad, especially in latin-america, you will find some discrimination thrown your way just by identifying as Mexican. Keeping it real here.
The upside is that you can teach Spanish in Asia, some countries would pay premium to learn Spanish from a Mexican.
and I want to work as an engineer wherever I go, since that's my major.
A bartender told me this while I was in Guadalajara Mexico:
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
"If you aren't careful here with the women, you will be married in a week."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMNPv_HXffQ
how I live my life.
how to survive in the US: viewtopic.php?t=19236
Minority guys usually need to work to pay for their schooling or get scholarships (I did both).
If you are a minority guy still in college, it will pay to graduate and get couple of years experience in USA to get ahead. Or you can totally do the white thing and do volunteer abroad (just dont pay for it).
If you are mid-career minority guy, then your game will be different (and much much harder). Location independence like Mr. Wu right here is doable but you'd have to slug it out or earn a wage competing directly with Americans.
Older minority guys, 35 and above, I don't know how you guys do it, but I don't see you posting a gabillion articles on living abroad.
My advise is to first scope out your target country. Do not believe the hype saying this is good for this color skin or something like that. Work on your fundamentals first, you won't know unless you try. S
If you are a minority guy still in college, it will pay to graduate and get couple of years experience in USA to get ahead. Or you can totally do the white thing and do volunteer abroad (just dont pay for it).
If you are mid-career minority guy, then your game will be different (and much much harder). Location independence like Mr. Wu right here is doable but you'd have to slug it out or earn a wage competing directly with Americans.
Older minority guys, 35 and above, I don't know how you guys do it, but I don't see you posting a gabillion articles on living abroad.
My advise is to first scope out your target country. Do not believe the hype saying this is good for this color skin or something like that. Work on your fundamentals first, you won't know unless you try. S
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