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Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Yes, it's a modern day minstrel show.
6
75%
No, I believe it empowers minorities somehow.
2
25%
 
Total votes : 8

Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Postby Repatriate » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:34 pm

I had this debate with a friend a few years ago and it's been on my mind.

Rap/hip hop preaches black empowerment but in reality all it does is reinforce the status quo. Black youth see it as a way to get rich and famous but when you see the people who do make money off of it they distance themselves from the black community and join the 1% club. The first thing they usually do is move the f**k out and hang out with the 1% who are mostly privileged and famous white people.

The image behind hip hop reinforces the social conditioning that black people are fundamentally violent thugs and sexually aggressive predators. The most popular rap super stars are the ones who made money off of this negative image selling. This does nothing for the millions of non famous disenfranchised black people. It just reinforces the cycle of poverty and criminality. The only positive is that some westernized women may find this exciting because it hits all their alpha male bad boy switches.


Rap seems to preach a self defeating message. The "man" is keeping everyone down. Thus the only way to come up is to have a chip on your shoulder and adopt an aggressive militant attitude towards anyone that's not black. Black people who are successful at intellectual pursuits are considered "sell outs" etc.. How often are great african-americans like Neil Degrasse Tyson mentioned in comparison with a turd like Jay-Z or Kanye West? It's classic counterproductive defeatism. Bill Cosby made some comments about this which was very unpopular to a lot of african-americans.

For every black rapper who makes it big there are probably more white studio executives getting immensely rich off of it. It's essentially a slave/master type relationship. Even black owned labels aren't invulnerable from the selling of the image by mainstream corporate interests.

Rap/hip hop is racially divisive. Quite a few popular rap songs are about killing, looting, raping other minorities. Ice Cube's Black Korea is a pretty good example but there are many others. Who benefits the most from having different minorities violently pitted against each other? Hmmm.

I know lots of black people post on here so I wonder what your thoughts about this are.
Last edited by Repatriate on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Postby S_Parc » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:59 pm

Repatriate wrote:Rap seems to preach a self defeating message. The "man" is keeping everyone down. Thus the only way to come up is to have a chip on your shoulder and adopt an aggressive militant attitude towards anyone that's not black. Black people who are successful at intellectual pursuits are considered "sell outs" etc.. How often are great african-americans like Neil Degrasse Tyson mentioned in comparison with a turd like Jay-Z or Kanye West? It's classic counterproductive defeatism. Bill Cosby made some comments about this which was very unpopular to a lot of african-americans.


There's the message and then, there's the genre, itself.

Wasn't heavy metal, once considered the music of bad boy whites and their satanic minions, until it went mainstream and then, the lyrics ranged from satanic stuff, to basic social commentaries, & everything A-Z?

So perhaps the issue isn't Rap/Hip Hop style of music but the lack of range of lyrics and the intended purpose of reinforcing an outlaw antihero culture?
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

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Re: Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Postby Repatriate » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:06 pm

S_Parc wrote:
There's the message and then, there's the genre, itself.

True but the conformist cultural subliminals are imbedded within the genre itself.

Wasn't heavy metal, once considered the music of bad boy whites and their satanic minions, until it went mainstream and then, the lyrics ranged from satanic stuff, to basic social commentaries, & everything A-Z?

Here's the difference between heavy metal It was originally counter culture. A rebellion against judeo-christian values. That's why it had all this over the top satanism and deviancy in it. You can add punk to that list too. It's about deviating away from the status quo.

On the other hand rap seems to be completely conformist to the system. Most white people expect blacks to act like violent thugs and rap seems to conform and run with that message whole heartedly. They made it "cool" to be that way but it's not counter culture at all when it's conforming with what society already thinks.
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Re: Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Postby S_Parc » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:19 pm

Repatriate wrote:
S_Parc wrote:
There's the message and then, there's the genre, itself.

True but the conformist cultural subliminals are imbedded within the genre itself.

Wasn't heavy metal, once considered the music of bad boy whites and their satanic minions, until it went mainstream and then, the lyrics ranged from satanic stuff, to basic social commentaries, & everything A-Z?

Here's the difference between heavy metal It was originally counter culture. A rebellion against judeo-christian values. That's why it had all this over the top satanism and deviancy in it. You can add punk to that list too. It's about deviating away from the status quo.

On the other hand rap seems to be completely conformist to the system. Most white people expect blacks to act like violent thugs and rap seems to conform and run with that message whole heartedly. They made it "cool" to be that way but it's not counter culture at all when it's conforming with what society already thinks.


So the latter, metal, is more escapist in nature, whereas rap is more a chasing of one's one tail, which is conformity.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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Re: Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Postby Chad N. Froyda » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:22 pm

Repatriate wrote:I had this debate with a friend a few years ago and it's been on my mind.

Rap/hip hop preaches black empowerment but in reality all it does is reinforce the status quo. Black youth see it as a way to get rich and famous but when you see the people who do make money off of it they distance themselves from the black community and join the 1% club. The first thing they usually do is move the f**k out and hang out with the 1% who are mostly privileged and famous white people.


Image
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:13 am

You guys are listening to the wrong kind of hip hop.

There is a lot of hip hop music that talks about social issues, not just guns and hoes.

There's a lot of socially conscious hip hop that has deep intellectually, philosophical lyrics.

You have to listen to UNDERGROUND HIP HOP, not just the mainstream hip hop.

Immortal Technic, Del the Funky Homosapien, Common, Mos Def and many others rap about social issues.

You also have Christian and Gospel hip hop.

Please don't lump all hip hop together.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:30 am

SilverEnergy wrote:You guys are listening to the wrong kind of hip hop.

There is a lot of hip hop music that talks about social issues, not just guns and hoes.

There's a lot of socially conscious hip hop that has deep intellectually, philosophical lyrics.

You have to listen to UNDERGROUND HIP HOP, not just the mainstream hip hop.

Immortal Technic, Del the Funky Homosapien, Common, Mos Def and many others rap about social issues.

You also have Christian and Gospel hip hop.

Please don't lump all hip hop together.

Sure there is hip hop with a positive message but which one appeals the most to the mainstream and which has the most lingering image? Which image has been the most profitable?

Kids aren't running around imitating a Tribe called Quest or something. They are running around with doo rags flashing gang signs and talking about "coming up", smashing "bitches", and making "ends" in the hood.

Hip hop idolizes the criminal element. Not because they are somehow beating the system it's because they are running the system. Kids want to be Tony Montana. There's nothing counter culture with being a criminal. It's called role fulfillment in a society which divides and conquers via race and class.

I used to enjoy hip hop until I realized that the messages are mostly hypocritical and essentially self defeating.
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Postby zboy1 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:49 am

SilverEnergy wrote:You guys are listening to the wrong kind of hip hop.

There is a lot of hip hop music that talks about social issues, not just guns and hoes.

There's a lot of socially conscious hip hop that has deep intellectually, philosophical lyrics.

You have to listen to UNDERGROUND HIP HOP, not just the mainstream hip hop.

Immortal Technic, Del the Funky Homosapien, Common, Mos Def and many others rap about social issues.

You also have Christian and Gospel hip hop.

Please don't lump all hip hop together.


I like old-school hip-hop like De La Soul, Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest and KRS-One. In terms of newer artists, I like Lupe Fiasco the best. All the groups I just mentioned are socially conscious and produce rap with a positive message too. It's too bad most of the popular rap artists these days, are complete scumbags and thugs...
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:40 am

Repatriate wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:You guys are listening to the wrong kind of hip hop.

There is a lot of hip hop music that talks about social issues, not just guns and hoes.

There's a lot of socially conscious hip hop that has deep intellectually, philosophical lyrics.

You have to listen to UNDERGROUND HIP HOP, not just the mainstream hip hop.

Immortal Technic, Del the Funky Homosapien, Common, Mos Def and many others rap about social issues.

You also have Christian and Gospel hip hop.

Please don't lump all hip hop together.

Sure there is hip hop with a positive message but which one appeals the most to the mainstream and which has the most lingering image? Which image has been the most profitable?

Kids aren't running around imitating a Tribe called Quest or something. They are running around with doo rags flashing gang signs and talking about "coming up", smashing "bitches", and making "ends" in the hood.

Hip hop idolizes the criminal element. Not because they are somehow beating the system it's because they are running the system. Kids want to be Tony Montana. There's nothing counter culture with being a criminal. It's called role fulfillment in a society which divides and conquers via race and class.

I used to enjoy hip hop until I realized that the messages are mostly hypocritical and essentially self defeating.


It's easy to find quality hip hop just listen to underground hip hop.

Who cares if mainstream is more profitable?

I still like some mainstream artists.

It is what it is and it's not going to change anytime soon.

There's no excuse for not trying out some of the underground artists.

Hating all of hip hop just because some of it is bad isn't a real reason for disliking all of hip hop.

The underground hip hop movement needs YOUR support. They're for the same cause that you stand for.

It's not only old school hip hop like a Tribe Called Quest, there are THOUSANDS of young underground hip hop artists who rap about substance.

Underground hip hop website: http://ughh.com/

Sure, many young black kids idolize mainstream hip hop but many young blacks also love to listen to underground hip hop.

Top 10 Underground Hip Hop Songs of 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtbH8KwOe_E

All young blacks aren't into drugs and gangs.

Besides, whites are the BIGGEST consumers of hip hop.

There's a famous saying in the hip hop world: Hip Hop isn't dead, it just went underground.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:08 am

SilverEnergy wrote:You guys are listening to the wrong kind of hip hop.

There is a lot of hip hop music that talks about social issues, not just guns and hoes.

There's a lot of socially conscious hip hop that has deep intellectually, philosophical lyrics.

You have to listen to UNDERGROUND HIP HOP, not just the mainstream hip hop.

Immortal Technic, Del the Funky Homosapien, Common, Mos Def and many others rap about social issues.

You also have Christian and Gospel hip hop.

Please don't lump all hip hop together.


What do you know about Immortal Technique???

Kool Keith, Canibus, Ghost, AZ, and Redman are real Hip-Hop fav's of mine. Nobody be a f.uckboy on here by mentioning Drake or Lil' Wayne as good rappers or emcees or I'll quit H.A. tomorrow.

Co Flow (Company Flow) was sick-as-h.ell back in the late 90s. The late J. Dilla/Slum Village. 9th Wonder and Buckshot get it in always! RA The Rugged Man still looks young-as-f.uck and he's still dropping mixtapes and s.hit. He rocked out on "C.unt Renaissance" with the late Biggie Smalls back in '93.

My favorite dudes in the game now are underground "bEAST COAST":

Flatbush Zombies (#1 in my underground heart right now)
The Underachievers
Vinny Cha$e
COTN/World's Fair
Bodega Bamz
Aasim
A$AP Rocky (except when he wore that f.ucking bwattayman dress/kilt)
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Postby Bane » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:46 pm

/quote]



Who cares if mainstream is more profitable?





Who cares? I care, because that is the type of hip hop that is influencing and dumbing down the masses. Sure, there is good hip hop. Zboy mentioned Lupe Fiasco, who I agree is good. But people like him are a very tiny, insignificant slice of the whole pie. The fact is that the vast majority of sheeple prefer the dumbed down, Little Wayne and Wiz Kahlifa BS. Underground hip hop is underground by definition because so few people listen to it. Its ability to influence the masses is nowhere near the level of the mass produced, cop killing, ho beating, drug promoting mainstream garbage.

So, who should care about mainstream rap having mass appeal while "underground" hip hop with its better messages is getting pushed aside? Just about anyone who cares about the future and development of our society.
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Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:02 pm

Hip hop is essentially a variation of Marxism. Anyone who has studied Marxism knows that its ultimate goal is dictatorship of the proletariat. Hip hop exalts and trumpets the urban proletariat by glorifying it as real, righteous, and glamorous.

Many poor and uneducated people relate to hip hop because of this exaltation of the underclass culture. Trouble is, many minority youth internalize hip hop culture and doom themselves to be alienated from the mainstream.

So while it serves Marxist ends (as does feminism), it keeps the people who subscribe to it way down on the totem pole.

Hip hop should be viewed as a musical genre, nothing more. The idiots that claim that it "educates" people are doing a disservice to themselves and their communities.
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:53 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Hip hop is essentially a variation of Marxism. Anyone who has studied Marxism knows that its ultimate goal is dictatorship of the proletariat. Hip hop exalts and trumpets the urban proletariat by glorifying it as real, righteous, and glamorous.

Many poor and uneducated people relate to hip hop because of this exaltation of the underclass culture. Trouble is, many minority youth internalize hip hop culture and doom themselves to be alienated from the mainstream.

So while it serves Marxist ends (as does feminism), it keeps the people who subscribe to it way down on the totem pole.

Hip hop should be viewed as a musical genre, nothing more. The idiots that claim that it "educates" people are doing a disservice to themselves and their communities.


Yet, suburban middle class and rich white kids are the biggest consumers of hip hop.....
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:58 pm

E Irizarry R&B Singer wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:You guys are listening to the wrong kind of hip hop.

There is a lot of hip hop music that talks about social issues, not just guns and hoes.

There's a lot of socially conscious hip hop that has deep intellectually, philosophical lyrics.

You have to listen to UNDERGROUND HIP HOP, not just the mainstream hip hop.

Immortal Technic, Del the Funky Homosapien, Common, Mos Def and many others rap about social issues.

You also have Christian and Gospel hip hop.

Please don't lump all hip hop together.


What do you know about Immortal Technique???

Kool Keith, Canibus, Ghost, AZ, and Redman are real Hip-Hop fav's of mine. Nobody be a f.uckboy on here by mentioning Drake or Lil' Wayne as good rappers or emcees or I'll quit H.A. tomorrow.

Co Flow (Company Flow) was sick-as-h.ell back in the late 90s. The late J. Dilla/Slum Village. 9th Wonder and Buckshot get it in always! RA The Rugged Man still looks young-as-f.uck and he's still dropping mixtapes and s.hit. He rocked out on "C.unt Renaissance" with the late Biggie Smalls back in '93.

My favorite dudes in the game now are underground "bEAST COAST":

Flatbush Zombies (#1 in my underground heart right now)
The Underachievers
Vinny Cha$e
COTN/World's Fair
Bodega Bamz
Aasim
A$AP Rocky (except when he wore that f.ucking bwattayman dress/kilt)


All those cats are off da chain!

Immortal Technique is half black-half peruvian.

Immortal Technique talks a lot about what we talk about on here.

Immortal Technique talks about the illuminati, racism, warfare and corrupt governments.

Immortal Technique's friend Akir who is another underground rapper is also a talented MC.

Let's not forget the west coast underground MC Tech Nine.

Remember the west coast underground hip hop group Heiroglyphics?
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:09 pm

Bane wrote:/quote]



Who cares if mainstream is more profitable?





Who cares? I care, because that is the type of hip hop that is influencing and dumbing down the masses. Sure, there is good hip hop. Zboy mentioned Lupe Fiasco, who I agree is good. But people like him are a very tiny, insignificant slice of the whole pie. The fact is that the vast majority of sheeple prefer the dumbed down, Little Wayne and Wiz Kahlifa BS. Underground hip hop is underground by definition because so few people listen to it. Its ability to influence the masses is nowhere near the level of the mass produced, cop killing, ho beating, drug promoting mainstream garbage.

So, who should care about mainstream rap having mass appeal while "underground" hip hop with its better messages is getting pushed aside? Just about anyone who cares about the future and development of our society.


Wrong, you're just choosing not to listen to the many underground cats out there.

There are thousands of young, talented underground hip hop artists.

Here's a list of underground artists just as good or better than Lupe Fiasco:

Underground hip hop artists: Tech N9ne, Immortal Technique, Heiroglyphics, Del The Funky Homosapien. Nas(he was once mainstream but is more underground now and considered among the best of all living rappers), Raekwon, Shing02, Akir, Diabolic, Jedi Mind Tricks, Atmosphere, Big L(he was killed), K-Rhino, Illmind, Kool G Rap, Gang Starr, Talib Kweli, Pharaoh Monche ect.

I posted a link to the official underground hip hop website. You can find many underground hip hop songs and artists on youtube.

While I agree that commerical hip hop has influenced the masses quite a bit, there is still a big underground audience around the world.

People around the world listen to underground hip hop and it doesn't seem like it because it's not mentioned in the media.

The biggest underground hip hop scene is on the East Coast.

I rap and freestyle myself.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
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