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Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

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Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Yes, it's a modern day minstrel show.
6
75%
No, I believe it empowers minorities somehow.
2
25%
 
Total votes : 8

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:15 pm

SilverEnergy wrote:
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Hip hop is essentially a variation of Marxism. Anyone who has studied Marxism knows that its ultimate goal is dictatorship of the proletariat. Hip hop exalts and trumpets the urban proletariat by glorifying it as real, righteous, and glamorous.

Many poor and uneducated people relate to hip hop because of this exaltation of the underclass culture. Trouble is, many minority youth internalize hip hop culture and doom themselves to be alienated from the mainstream.

So while it serves Marxist ends (as does feminism), it keeps the people who subscribe to it way down on the totem pole.

Hip hop should be viewed as a musical genre, nothing more. The idiots that claim that it "educates" people are doing a disservice to themselves and their communities.


Yet, suburban middle class and rich white kids are the biggest consumers of hip hop.....


You have made the quite common fallacious error of equating consumption of the music with consumption of the culture. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Those middle class white kids you speak of simply appreciate the music for what it is, a musical genre. The other kids, black ones especially, consume it as a culture and a goal to which to aspire, thus locking them out of the mainstream.
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Postby Anti-American » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:21 pm

How about rap/hip hop from outside the USA?
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:31 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:You have made the quite common fallacious error of equating consumption of the music with consumption of the culture. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Those middle class white kids you speak of simply appreciate the music for what it is, a musical genre. The other kids, black ones especially, consume it as a culture and a goal to which to aspire, thus locking them out of the mainstream.

Middle class white kids emulate hip hop and other facets of black culture because it's a safe way to express rebellion without living in the hood. It's the ultimate poser fantasy of being the tough gangster without ever actually being in danger or enduring poverty. Also, they leech off the aggressive masculine image of hip hop to fit into a scene and get girls.

Plus hip hop is all about maintaining the status quo so it makes sense in an ironic way that white kids are the principle benefactors of the genre.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:33 pm

Anti-American wrote:How about rap/hip hop from outside the USA?

I saw a documentary on hip hop in european countries like France. It's the same garbage. A bunch of arab kids living in the suburban ghetto talking about rising up, fighting the man, and taking what's theirs. How has that worked out so far? :lol: They are completely alienated from mainstream France and poorer than ever.

The message is inherently self defeating: if you can't better yourself and make it on your own merit despite difficulties with racism etc.. then you should give up and burn it all down.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:05 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
So while it serves Marxist ends (as does feminism), it keeps the people who subscribe to it way down on the totem pole.

It's a bit like organized religion too. It's a control mechanism to put you in your place and to enrich a select few. It's essentially saying that you will go _this_ far in life and that you should accept your role as a thug. The illusion is that something much grander awaits you if you follow the path. The culture behind hip hop/rap it's essentially a ponzi scheme where there are a few slick hustlers who make it to the top and enrich themselves off the misery of the rest. The rest of the people mired in poverty and crime look on in awe without realizing that only a few can be the big ballers and the whole culture is rigged to just keep you in your place.

Telling young men to forsake education, self improvement, long term social goals etc.. to chase consumption fantasies of big cars with spinning rims, big b***y women, and mountains of cash is self defeating.
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:14 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Hip hop is essentially a variation of Marxism. Anyone who has studied Marxism knows that its ultimate goal is dictatorship of the proletariat. Hip hop exalts and trumpets the urban proletariat by glorifying it as real, righteous, and glamorous.

Many poor and uneducated people relate to hip hop because of this exaltation of the underclass culture. Trouble is, many minority youth internalize hip hop culture and doom themselves to be alienated from the mainstream.

So while it serves Marxist ends (as does feminism), it keeps the people who subscribe to it way down on the totem pole.

Hip hop should be viewed as a musical genre, nothing more. The idiots that claim that it "educates" people are doing a disservice to themselves and their communities.


Yet, suburban middle class and rich white kids are the biggest consumers of hip hop.....


You have made the quite common fallacious error of equating consumption of the music with consumption of the culture. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Those middle class white kids you speak of simply appreciate the music for what it is, a musical genre. The other kids, black ones especially, consume it as a culture and a goal to which to aspire, thus locking them out of the mainstream.


With the exception of gang banging, you have gun violence with young whites who listen to hip hop.

White suburban kids commit crimes just like the black youth do, the rate is just not as high as black kids.

The fact is that the white listeners of hip hop do absorb it in some shape or form.

Those white suburban kids smoke weed and use cocaine just as much as the black kids who listen to rap. Actually whites in America in general use drugs more than any race of people in America.

You forget that a number of white kids have black friends whom they attend hip hop clubs with.

The white kids don't join gangs like the black kids do though and neither do they gang bang like blacks or latinos.

Remember 8 Mile with Eminem?

Eminem was no different than the blacks he hung out with.

Eminem did drugs, banged girls, cursed, fought and went to parties and hip hop clubs just like the blacks did.
Last edited by SilverEnergy on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:30 pm

SilverEnergy wrote:I disagree, those white suburban kids smoke weed and use cocaine just as much as the black kids who listen to rap.

The impact simply isn't the same. A bunch of suburban white kids using drugs now and then will still mostly be able to overcome their issues based purely on social privilege. Society cares what happens to them they aren't constantly staring into the abyss.

On the other hand living the "lifestyle" when you're on the social brink already means you face a downward spiral that only gets worse. A white man who goes to jail can bounce back most of the time, a black man (or any other minority) not so much.

And there is gun violence and physical violence between young whites.

The proportion of violence and effect is much different.
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:39 pm

Repatriate wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:I disagree, those white suburban kids smoke weed and use cocaine just as much as the black kids who listen to rap.

The impact simply isn't the same. A bunch of suburban white kids using drugs now and then will still mostly be able to overcome their issues based purely on social privilege. Society cares what happens to them they aren't constantly staring into the abyss.

On the other hand living the "lifestyle" when you're on the social brink already means you face a downward spiral that only gets worse. A white man who goes to jail can bounce back most of the time, a black man (or any other minority) not so much.

And there is gun violence and physical violence between young whites.

The proportion of violence and effect is much different.


True because whites have better money and education to bounce back from it, that I agree with you on.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:49 pm

You mentioned Eminem but here's an important difference between him and the blacks he was around. He had way more options in life. His upbringing was supposedly shitty but just by virtue of his race and social privilege he could still exit poverty easily. He chose to stay in that community because he was good at what he does and saw an obvious opportunity there. He's still a hustler though.
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Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:16 pm

Repatriate wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:I disagree, those white suburban kids smoke weed and use cocaine just as much as the black kids who listen to rap.

The impact simply isn't the same. A bunch of suburban white kids using drugs now and then will still mostly be able to overcome their issues based purely on social privilege. Society cares what happens to them they aren't constantly staring into the abyss.

On the other hand living the "lifestyle" when you're on the social brink already means you face a downward spiral that only gets worse. A white man who goes to jail can bounce back most of the time, a black man (or any other minority) not so much.

And there is gun violence and physical violence between young whites.

The proportion of violence and effect is much different.

THANK YOU. That is something is commonly ignored by the "pathology apologists."
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:05 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Hip hop is essentially a variation of Marxism. Anyone who has studied Marxism knows that its ultimate goal is dictatorship of the proletariat. Hip hop exalts and trumpets the urban proletariat by glorifying it as real, righteous, and glamorous.

Many poor and uneducated people relate to hip hop because of this exaltation of the underclass culture. Trouble is, many minority youth internalize hip hop culture and doom themselves to be alienated from the mainstream.

So while it serves Marxist ends (as does feminism), it keeps the people who subscribe to it way down on the totem pole.

Hip hop should be viewed as a musical genre, nothing more. The idiots that claim that it "educates" people are doing a disservice to themselves and their communities.


Yet, suburban middle class and rich white kids are the biggest consumers of hip hop.....


You have made the quite common fallacious error of equating consumption of the music with consumption of the culture. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Those middle class white kids you speak of simply appreciate the music for what it is, a musical genre. The other kids, black ones especially, consume it as a culture and a goal to which to aspire, thus locking them out of the mainstream.


Whilst I agree with you, ContrarianExpatriate, on the latter statement you have rendered, the primer part of your statement is somewhat off-the-mark. Hip-Hop used to be a culture before TPTB had the late Biggie Smalls and the late Tupac Shakur terminated. Yes, there were thugs whom were an integral part of the Hip-Hop culture in the early 90s, but Hip-Hop had lost decorum when PE, NWA/Ice Cube, Ice-T had lost their movement, too (circa early almost mid90s).

TPTB saw how it was empowering these ghetto youth and became afraid of another upheaval an another uprise resurgence (and another "Rosewood, Florida/Tulsa, Oklahoma" of economic power) of the 60s against the government again, so they had 2Pac and Biggie "knocked out of the box" hence why I think Ice Cube stopped being hard because he had a child by '95 and wanted to be around for his family. He already knew that Eazy-E was "drugged" with HIV when he visited President Bush Sr. in '91 to have dinner with him. Yes Eazy-E was f.ucking without condoms, but he didn't catch it from that. Ice-T became "soft" too.

Hip-Hop was about empowering inner-city youth and giving them a soapbox to spew on.

Due to the advent of an asinine GDP in the Black American community, the Internet/torrenting as well as the rise of Black Feminism and the shift of the paradigm of the market by the Anglo-Jews shift Hip-Hop to nothing more than a ministrel show to capitalize off of what NuyoRicans and Black Americans first fostered and created in The Bronx, NY in the late 70s. Oook so James Brown was rapping in the early 70s, but it wasn't really rapping until the late 70s over disco breaks. (You know, "Rapper's Delight"...Blondie on 12" Extended Mix of Rapture, etc), but as much as I love R&B, I grew up in NYC and saw this first hand.

The day I heard Lil' Jon being blasted from the radio from a Bronx apt. window (in 2005 this happened when I was walking down the street) and that KRS-One gave "props" to Lil' Wayne, I knew what NYC begun had already been plummeted to an incorrigible new low.

Even though "The New, New York" and the "Beast Coast" are garnering momentum, there's no distribution to be played on the radio and to get it somewhat mainstream and popular like real Hip-Hop was 20 years ago.

Again, I am distraught of what Hip-Hop had come to be.
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Re: Does rap/hip hop reinforce the status quo?

Postby Teal Lantern » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:49 pm

People can certainly find "higher-consciousness" rap if they want.
If that's what was selling, that's what would be getting produced, but people want Barabbas.

Ice Cube slips a "higher thinking, call-out the B.S." track or two on each of his releases.
Listen to "Us" from Death Certificate.

There's a song called "Read a Book"; its creator was brought onto CNN and concern trolled for his "vulgar" & "offensive" language.
Aside from words like "book", he didn't use offensive words that can't be found in other popular rap songs. :roll:

The CNN segment can also be found on 'tube.


Repatriate wrote:I had this debate with a friend a few years ago and it's been on my mind.

Rap/hip hop preaches black empowerment but in reality all it does is reinforce the status quo. Black youth see it as a way to get rich and famous but when you see the people who do make money off of it they distance themselves from the black community and join the 1% club. The first thing they usually do is move the f**k out and hang out with the 1% who are mostly privileged and famous white people.

The image behind hip hop reinforces the social conditioning that black people are fundamentally violent thugs and sexually aggressive predators. The most popular rap super stars are the ones who made money off of this negative image selling. This does nothing for the millions of non famous disenfranchised black people. It just reinforces the cycle of poverty and criminality. The only positive is that some westernized women may find this exciting because it hits all their alpha male bad boy switches.


Rap seems to preach a self defeating message. The "man" is keeping everyone down. Thus the only way to come up is to have a chip on your shoulder and adopt an aggressive militant attitude towards anyone that's not black. Black people who are successful at intellectual pursuits are considered "sell outs" etc.. How often are great african-americans like Neil Degrasse Tyson mentioned in comparison with a turd like Jay-Z or Kanye West? It's classic counterproductive defeatism. Bill Cosby made some comments about this which was very unpopular to a lot of african-americans.

For every black rapper who makes it big there are probably more white studio executives getting immensely rich off of it. It's essentially a slave/master type relationship. Even black owned labels aren't invulnerable from the selling of the image by mainstream corporate interests.

Rap/hip hop is racially divisive. Quite a few popular rap songs are about killing, looting, raping other minorities. Ice Cube's Black Korea is a pretty good example but there are many others. Who benefits the most from having different minorities violently pitted against each other? Hmmm.

I know lots of black people post on here so I wonder what your thoughts about this are.
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Postby theprimebait » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:45 pm

Repatriate wrote:
Anti-American wrote:How about rap/hip hop from outside the USA?

I saw a documentary on hip hop in european countries like France. It's the same garbage. A bunch of arab kids living in the suburban ghetto talking about rising up, fighting the man, and taking what's theirs. How has that worked out so far? :lol: They are completely alienated from mainstream France and poorer than ever.

The message is inherently self defeating: if you can't better yourself and make it on your own merit despite difficulties with racism etc.. then you should give up and burn it all down.



lol like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzN5o6_wblY[/youtube] :lol:

its pretty ridiculous.
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Postby Repatriate » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:56 pm

theprimebait wrote:
Repatriate wrote:
Anti-American wrote:How about rap/hip hop from outside the USA?

I saw a documentary on hip hop in european countries like France. It's the same garbage. A bunch of arab kids living in the suburban ghetto talking about rising up, fighting the man, and taking what's theirs. How has that worked out so far? :lol: They are completely alienated from mainstream France and poorer than ever.

The message is inherently self defeating: if you can't better yourself and make it on your own merit despite difficulties with racism etc.. then you should give up and burn it all down.



lol like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzN5o6_wblY[/youtube] :lol:

its pretty ridiculous.


Everything about this guy says "i'm a third class citizen stuck in the matrix and I show my impotence by rapping about stupid ghetto bullshit in front of a monument built by the same people who possess mastery over me."

It's like the ape man shaking his fist at the black monolith in Kubrick's 2001.

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Postby Killhoffa » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:17 am

Funny how Canibus got black listed after the "Channel Zero" rap on his debut album. "Melatonin Magik" was a phenomenal piece he had Proff. Griff, ft'd. "Vinnie Paz" from "Jedi Mind Tricks" released a classic "End of days" ft Block McCloud, on his "Season of the Assassin" album in 2010! Then his "God of the Serengeti" album had the song titled "You can't be nuetral on a moving train" he gets real deep in that record. Yeah wack rappers get all the shine!
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