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Debunking the 'they just want your green card / money' claim

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby djfourmoney » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:36 pm

Banano wrote:Colombian women are gold diggers,

men is always expected to pay and cover all expenses, makes no difference whether you are Colombian or American man


going Dutch wont work with them, in fact it will upset them


Going "Dutch" is a European concept that is finding acceptance in America. Why in the world would you think it would work in Latin America? You're lucky nobody got highly offended.
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Postby chibolo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:19 am

Ok, this is my first post here, but I have been reading this forum for a while.

Personally, I think the vast majority of women on foreign dating sites DO want money and/or a green card. However, unless they are scammers, they ALSO want a man they really like. These women will not just take anyone because he has money or lives in the US/Western Europe. They still have standards and want someone they like and are attracted to. At least this is what I saw when I lived in Peru. The women there would love to meet a gringo and move to a more developed country, but they were still picky and only chose guys they really liked.
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Postby Banano » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:43 am

Steve55

send us links to these profiles
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Postby steve55 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:34 am

Banano wrote:Steve55

send us links to these profiles


Dam! I didn't know that would work but it does. I thought you would have to be logged in. Ok, here they all are:

HOT

1) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... chtotal=10 (Very good looking IMHO! Giving her an 8 )
2) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/2627986 (Ck out her photo 2nd from far right- Giving her a 7)
3) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/5224295 (Masters Degree-medical -Seems highest in intellect and socio economic scale- Looks wise a 6.50)
4) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/4305817 (Bachelors degree -giving her a 7)

Not so hot

5) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... /ID/326355 (not bad, giving her a 5-6)
6) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... /ID/194901 (not bad, giving her a 5-6)
7) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/1192661 (Bachelors degree -not bad, a little extra on her, givin her a 5-6)
8). http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/1041621 (this one so so, givin her a 5)
9) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/5190855 (Masters degree medical-not so much in looks though, Ill give her a 3 or 4???)
10) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/5214295 (Giving her a 2 or 3)
11) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/4739942 (18 yr old, but not so good looking, givin her a 2 or 3)

So, if I could get dates in the US with girls like 1-4, No need to go abroad! I could send 100 messages on plenty of fat dating site who are half as good as girls 1-4 and NEVER get single reply. Girls like 1-4 would be getting hit on so much in the US, the average descent looking Joe Shmoe has no chance. He'll be just 1 of 100 men hitting on her every week. The Alpha males will be swarming them. Good luck with that! (Ok, maybe not 100 a week, but you get the point). However, any descent man (latino or American) can easily get dates with marriage minded women like these abroad, probably especially if you are a western foreigner due to the exotic factor and the Western man's reputation as good husbands.

A man can achieve so much better abroad. With few exceptions, he can land women he'd have no chance to land in the US, especially if he is in his 40's and has age working against him in the US dating scene. By the way, I've noticed that there is quite an abundance of very educated Latinas out there, similar to how Russian women tend to be very highly educated.

And gentlemen, last but not least, here is my ficticious/fake Latino profile.

http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... chtotal=43

My ficticious profile rates about a 6-7 in looks, not too average, but not too sexy either. He seems like a slightly above average looking guy, the same as what most women tell me about how I look. I wanted to keep this ficticious profile as similar to my real life profile as possible, hence the same age, same profession, and same looks, to get an apples to apples comparison. Based on initial + further activity today, I would say this latino profile gets only about 25-30%% less interest than my real gringo profile does. But point is that, just in 24 hours, he gets plenty of attention, and he has no green card to offer and no gringo riches to provide. To me this proves that men can have FAR MORE success than on any US dating site and it has nothing to do with the gringo factor.

SO now when I hear for the 1,000th time ,"those women just want your green card and money", I can just point to my little experiment as proof this is GENERALLY not true at all. Ill even cap it off with the fact that I have far more to fear from the money/materiasm factor from American women than most foreign women. While there may be a handful of foreign women looking specifically for those things, in general, this is not generally the case as this latino profile has just proven, even if Rock thinks it doesn't prove a thing. je je je :D
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Postby Voice of Reason » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:44 am

Many foreign women are after money/income, but that's just one of many reasons why they would want to date a foreigner.

Money most definitely is important, but it is not the be all and end all, as many western feminists would have people believe when it comes to foreign women.
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Postby Falcon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:48 am

Hey Steve,

When I was in China, I'd get interest from women who'd never suspect that I was actually NOT a Chinese national (due to my Mandarin skills). Then when I tell them that I'm actually a U.S. citizen, that wouldn't make me go from "zero to rockstar" either. :wink:

I don't look like a sugar daddy at all either, but rather like a young, poor student.

I actually do agree with Steve. Also there are some gold-diggers everywhere, but most of them just want a nice guy to be around with. And yes, I really really mean "nice guy." :D Also many of them don't want to move to foreign countries, but just have that nice guy to live together with them in their home countries; most of the Mexican women I've dated wanted me to live in Mexico, and even my Thai girl wants the same.
Last edited by Falcon on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rock » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:23 am

steve55 wrote:
Banano wrote:Steve55

send us links to these profiles


Dam! I didn't know that would work but it does. I thought you would have to be logged in. Ok, here they all are:

HOT

1) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... chtotal=10 (Very good looking IMHO! Giving her an 8 )
2) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/2627986 (Ck out her photo 2nd from far right- Giving her a 7)
3) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/5224295 (Masters Degree-medical -Seems highest in intellect and socio economic scale- Looks wise a 6.50)
4) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/4305817 (Bachelors degree -giving her a 7)

Not so hot

5) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... /ID/326355 (not bad, giving her a 5-6)
6) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... /ID/194901 (not bad, giving her a 5-6)
7) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/1192661 (Bachelors degree -not bad, a little extra on her, givin her a 5-6)
8). http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/1041621 (this one so so, givin her a 5)
9) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/5190855 (Masters degree medical-not so much in looks though, Ill give her a 3 or 4???)
10) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/5214295 (Giving her a 2 or 3)
11) http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... ID/4739942 (18 yr old, but not so good looking, givin her a 2 or 3)

So, if I could get dates in the US with girls like 1-4, No need to go abroad! I could send 100 messages on plenty of fat dating site who are half as good as girls 1-4 and NEVER get single reply. Girls like 1-4 would be getting hit on so much in the US, the average descent looking Joe Shmoe has no chance. He'll be just 1 of 100 men hitting on her every week. The Alpha males will be swarming them. Good luck with that! (Ok, maybe not 100 a week, but you get the point). However, any descent man (latino or American) can easily get dates with marriage minded women like these abroad, probably especially if you are a western foreigner due to the exotic factor and the Western man's reputation as good husbands.

A man can achieve so much better abroad. With few exceptions, he can land women he'd have no chance to land in the US, especially if he is in his 40's and has age working against him in the US dating scene. By the way, I've noticed that there is quite an abundance of very educated Latinas out there, similar to how Russian women tend to be very highly educated.

And gentlemen, last but not least, here is my ficticious/fake Latino profile.

http://www.latinamericancupid.com/en/pr ... chtotal=43

My ficticious profile rates about a 6-7 in looks, not too average, but not too sexy either. He seems like a slightly above average looking guy, the same as what most women tell me about how I look. I wanted to keep this ficticious profile as similar to my real life profile as possible, hence the same age, same profession, and same looks, to get an apples to apples comparison. Based on initial + further activity today, I would say this latino profile gets only about 25-30%% less interest than my real gringo profile does. But point is that, just in 24 hours, he gets plenty of attention, and he has no green card to offer and no gringo riches to provide. To me this proves that men can have FAR MORE success than on any US dating site and it has nothing to do with the gringo factor.

SO now when I hear for the 1,000th time ,"those women just want your green card and money", I can just point to my little experiment as proof this is GENERALLY not true at all. Ill even cap it off with the fact that I have far more to fear from the money/materiasm factor from American women than most foreign women. While there may be a handful of foreign women looking specifically for those things, in general, this is not generally the case as this latino profile has just proven, even if Rock thinks it doesn't prove a thing. je je je :D


Steve,

These profiles for the most part look genuine. Latin Cupid seems to be a decent site. I've used it in DR along with Dominican Cupid and met a few nice and decent gals along with a couple gold diggers lol.

But I'm still not very inspired by what I see here so far. Let's contrast Exhibit A (the man) with Exhibit B (the girls):

Exhibit A: Carlos, good looking, decent height, slim, well presented, appears to be around 35 in photo

Exhibit B: 11 girls who wrote or expressed interest, average upper range on age gap just 11 years (but Carlos looks 10 years younger than true age so effective average upper range on gap is just 1 year), 45% single moms, under half above 5'4", looks wise I would say most of them are less attractive than Carlos.

When I compare Exhibit A to Exhibit B and consider some key factors, it seems to me that Carlos has so far not achieved any kind of handicap if we use a level playing field to evaluate.


1. 34, 5'2", Seeking 32-45 (up to 11 year gap) => Slightly attractive face with nice eyes but too short
2. 28, 5'4", Seeking 23-36 (up to 8 year gap) => Top heavy (no hips or ass), nice eyes, a bit too short
3. 37, 5'7", Seeking 36-49 (up to 12 year gap) => Nice height but pushing 40 with some eye area wrinkling
4. 36, 5'4", Seeking 33-47 (up to 11 year gap) => Single mom, uninspiring photos
5. 29, 5'9", Seeking 30-43 (up to 14 year gap) => Perfect height, pics vary in attractiveness so hard to tell
6. 37, 5'6", Seeking 29-40 (up to 3 year gap) => Single mom, just one uninspiring photo, pushing 40
7. 40, 5'5", Seeking 35-47 (up to 7 year gap) => Single mom, nice shape and smile, already 40
8. 31, 5'3", Seeking 30-50 (up to 19 year gap) => Single mom, too short, not attractive at all
9. 33, 5'3", Seeking 30-40 (up to 7 year gap) => Too short, not pretty
10. 23, 5'3", Seeking 24-38 (up to 15 year gap) => Single mom, too short, nice shape, African ancestry
11. 18, 5'6", Seeking 19-30 (up to 12 year gap) => Very young but she wants 30 and under

Steve, I believe you are right that US playing field is highly skewed in favor of women as far as 80% or so of men in the States are concerned. These guys in USA have strong negative handicap. That is why it shouldn't even be used as a bench mark. It's more useful to compare various locals abroad and throw-out the obviously bad ones (Anglo world, Saudi, North Korea, etc.). Which places can we demonstrate by example or real life cases guys achieving the strongest positive handicap in dating, romance, and marriage?

In the case of Carlos, I'm seeing that he's attracted interest from women who are more or less equal to him or perhaps slightly less attractive as a whole package. Perhaps if he was proactive and hit-up profiles of girls who clearly outclassed him by a good gap, he might manage to achieve a non-money motivated relationship with one or more. To me, that would be a lot more inspiring. On the other hand, he might find that all those girls wanted him to be a type of sugar daddy to them. If that were the case, the cynics win, lol.

I think many Americans over-rate the attractiveness of a US passport. I really haven't encountered many apparent visa chasers in my travels. Money is a much more common motivation. So it really doesn't matter whether the guy is from USA, some other foreign country, or local. What matters (for the girls motivated by non-genuine reasons) is that guy appears to have money or at least will be generous in spending on her. Perhaps, foreigners may also be seen as easier marks in some cases given their perceived lack of familiarity with local culture. But in other cases, girl might prefer a local sugar daddy over a foreign one cus expectations are clear on both sides and communication is much easier. BTW, certain areas in countries like Brazil and Dominican Republic are full of older Italian men who sugar daddy attractive young local girls. I think these girls don't generally date them in hopes of getting European visa. It's usually just about how much plata she's gonna get from him at end of day or week.
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Postby Rock » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:46 am

Falcon wrote:Hey Steve,

When I was in China, I'd get interest from women who'd never suspect that I was actually NOT a Chinese national (due to my Mandarin skills). Then when I tell them that I'm actually a U.S. citizen, that make me go from "zero to rockstar" either. :wink:

I don't look like a sugar daddy at all either, but rather like a young, poor student.

I actually do agree with Steve. Also there are some gold-diggers everywhere, but most of them just want a nice guy to be around with. And yes, I really really mean "nice guy." :D Also many of them don't want to move to foreign countries, but just have that nice guy to live together with them in their home countries; most of the Mexican women I've dated wanted me to live in Mexico, and even my Thai girl wants the same.


Those are fair points and I agree that USA passport does not mean much in most places. Perhaps Philippines is one of the exceptions as there is a tradition there for many to work overseas and make good money. But in general, based on my own experiences, USA passport alone is not gonna help you much with ladies. In certain areas of the world, such as much of Africa, being white or appearing to be from some other areas of world signals that you are relatively rich. But majority of whites I see in such places are not even American lol.

Falcon, in your particular case, I'm not surprised how easy it is for you. Because, you seem to be attracted to back-woods areas and have a thing for minorities who are generally not highly regarded by host country locals. Add to that they are generally at a lower strata socioeconomically while you appear to be of first world status. Consider, in such areas, you stand-out the way a well built, clean cut, and healthy guy of 6'4" or 6'5" might stand-out in some of the top capitals of Asia. And even though you are dressed modestly and casually by our standards, I believe some of the more astute locals can sense that you are a relatively well educated and well heeled outsider. Final point is that you are often attracted to more mature women, even those over 30. Keep in mind woman in China much over 28 (and perhaps rural Mexico too) become seen as 剩女.
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Postby Falcon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:11 am

Rock wrote:Those are fair points and I agree that USA passport does not mean much in most places. Perhaps Philippines is one of the exceptions as there is a tradition there for many to work overseas and make good money. But in general, based on my own experiences, USA passport alone is not gonna help you much with ladies. In certain areas of the world, such as much of Africa, being white or appearing to be from some other areas of world signals that you are relatively rich. But majority of whites I see in such places are not even American lol.

Falcon, in your particular case, I'm not surprised how easy it is for you. Because, you seem to be attracted to back-woods areas and have a thing for minorities who are generally not highly regarded by host country locals. Add to that they are generally at a lower strata socioeconomically while you appear to be of first world status. Consider, in such areas, you stand-out the way a well built, clean cut, and healthy guy of 6'4" or 6'5" might stand-out in some of the top capitals of Asia. And even though you are dressed modestly and casually by our standards, I believe some of the more astute locals can sense that you are a relatively well educated and well heeled outsider. Final point is that you are often attracted to more mature women, even those over 30. Keep in mind woman in China much over 28 (and perhaps rural Mexico too) become seen as 剩女.


I do dress as modestly as I can without looking sloppy, since the last thing I'd want is for people to think I'm some rich kid with plenty of disposable money. But many locals still pick up on the fact that I'm a well-educated kid from a not-so-lowly background, due to my height and speech and other mannerisms. I feel like I'm one of those middle-class folks who takes on egalitarian or even anarchist worldviews and associates himself with the poor and lowly, like Che Guevara or Mother Teresa.

Once in Yunnan, I went out with a cute ethnic Miao girl who seriously thought she wasn't good enough for me. I can tell you the exact location by PM.

- She was chubbier and had darker skin, which were attractive to me but made her very self-conscious. She was quite ashamed of her body and had low self-esteem.
- When I told her that I was a college student, she was shocked and told me, "Why didn't you tell me earlier, I could have introduced me to some of my friends in college." She's a semi-literate school dropout from a poor mountainous village by the Vietnamese border, and had to do manual labor throughout her life. She was awed simply by my presence, and was ashamed that she was at a much lower level than me.
- I showed her one of my books, and she was extremely ashamed to even look at it. She said, "I can't read, I'm really dumb and never got the chance to go to school."
- It was also Lover's Day (情人节) in China that day, and she really thought I had to have a "better" girlfriend that I'd have to see that night. I replied that it's just her (就是你啊). She told me, "You're so tall and handsome, how can you NOT have a girlfriend?" She was so surprised that she was almost shaking a little bit. :shock:
- When I told her that I seriously couldn't find any dates back home (USA), she literally almost wouldn't believe me. I told her how US women had constantly ignored me and been mean to me too. While the Chinese-Indonesian girl (L)'s reaction was just bewilderment, the Miao girl actually nearly jumped and was genuinely shocked from near disbelief when I told her those things. In her mind, there's no way I could NOT have been a playboy stud. :P
- My knowledge of Miao language and culture also impressed her greatly. Non-local Han Chinese would usually know next to nothing about the Miao.

In Thailand, it would be very hard to imagine a well-to-do Bangkok Thai-Chinese dating a semi-literate hill-tribe girl from the boondocks.

Winston's "zero to rock star" claim had never been more evident for me that day. I myself was incredulous to see a woman react to me like that. Later that night, I was actually seething with anger thinking about how different my female peers were back home, in CA.

Image
Last edited by Falcon on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Falcon » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:11 am

I just downloaded Ladislav's e-book by the way, and am reading all about his fascinating comparisons. His way of comparing things as relative to each other is a big refreshment from Winston's more black-and-white treatment of things. :P

For example, my Thai Isaan lady actually really likes how I'm frugal with my money when we're out together. I'm quite sure this wouldn't impress the Chinese-Indonesian girls at all though! We'd bargain together and haggle for the best deals. She says she doesn't like how many of the farangs don't seem to save for tomorrow, and spend frivolously.
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Postby chibolo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:05 pm

Steve,

I think the Cupid sites (Latin American, Colombian, etc.) have a combination of women looking for local guys and women looking for gringos. A lot of latinas (and latinos) use them as local dating sites, including many middle/upper class women. They are not like other foreign brides sites where almost all women are at least partially motivated by money.

Your profile guy is quite good looking (certainly way above average). He would do well anywhere IMHO. Also, he looks like a white latino, which automatically means he has money and status in much of Latin America...
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Postby steve55 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:42 pm

Hey Rock, I hear ya. As we all know, everyone's tastes vary. But man, let me tell ya, if I could have a chance, even just one date with girls like 1-4, in the US , I would be absolutley thrilled! I mean, these girls (IMHO) are easily 7-8 on the rating scale in the US market. Keep in mind that my fake latino never did write or initiate contact, and girls generally like to be pursued or dont usually initiate contact, I can imagine how many more positive results he could get if he took initiative by writing to some girls. So in just 24 hours, Mr Latino did 10 x better than he would do on any US dating site. I bet if I took his same photo and created the average AMerican profile and placed it on Plenty of fat or match.com, he would havethe same exact results as I do, which is send 50 messages to ht wt prop average or above looking girls and get ZERO replies , or if he gets a few replies initially, the girls will dissapear after a few emails. So, my main point is that if this much can be achieved within 24 hours without him initiating contact, imagine what he could achieve over time?? And ya know, you can find highly educated women who are also great looking too! So, this is why I am so inspired by this difference, and its just crazy how much better a man can do just by stepping outside the US matrix. MOst guys I talk to havent a clue to these truths.

By the way, I guess you are right, that guy looks mid 30's, but , you ve seen my photo too??? Most people guess my age between 27 to 35 with at least half guessing me between 27 to 32. So, apples to apples it still is :D

And you are also right about a significant portionof these ladies being single moms, but thats fine, Im still getting access to the other 50% who are not. :)

ANyways, I havent really mentioned it yet, but Ive made plans to quit my job and go live in COlombia for 1-6 months, depending if I like it there. If I dont like it there, Ill head to the Phils again. Ive spent the last 6 months befriending potential prospects, being careful not to allow it to go beyond casual friendship so as to not build expectations or to make them think they are the only one Im chatting with or going to meet. I leave mid October. And my spanish is pretty descent now. Looking forward to it. Laters!
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Postby steve55 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:53 pm

Falcon wrote: Later that night, I was actually seething with anger thinking about how different my female peers were back home, in CA.


AMEN! Falcon, that is exactly what inspired me too! It inspired me to contribute to Happier ABroad and create my own site so I can spread the word to more AMerican men . When I saw how sweet, especially HUMBLE, and polite filipinas were to men, (without the rude bitch shield or the huge EGOS like girls haveback home) it really made me look at American women in a different way big times! You dont realize the differences until you go see it for yourself. And yes, it can even bring you to anger as you see how bad most AMerican women are compared to the sweet humbleness of foreign women. To be able to initiate an approach with a knock down gorgeous foreign woman without getting the "bitch shield" or the "Im better than you " reaction, is a mind blow!
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Postby kai1275 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:11 pm

Dude..... your fake profile guy is waaaaaaay out of those women's league that it isn't even funny....

As fine as number 7 is, she is too old and has a kid. The rest are pretty kinda, but basically 4-6. A guy that looks like that, should only talk to 9s and 10s. The reason why is because you cannot go that far down as a good looking guy. Those women's insecurities will make things worse later on. That makes for a terrible match.

I learned my lesson the hard way marrying down with my ex-wife like that. Any man intelligent to find out why their wives should look better than them, will be richly rewarded. No man should be better looking than their wife! Ever! Unless they are both 10s.

Edit: Okay that first one you posted is indeed an 8...but barely. Still not good enough for a guy like the one in your profile.
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Postby aozora13 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:02 pm

kai1275 wrote:Dude..... your fake profile guy is waaaaaaay out of those women's league that it isn't even funny....

As fine as number 7 is, she is too old and has a kid. The rest are pretty kinda, but basically 4-6. A guy that looks like that, should only talk to 9s and 10s. The reason why is because you cannot go that far down as a good looking guy. Those women's insecurities will make things worse later on. That makes for a terrible match.

I learned my lesson the hard way marrying down with my ex-wife like that. Any man intelligent to find out why their wives should look better than them, will be richly rewarded. No man should be better looking than their wife! Ever! Unless they are both 10s.

Edit: Okay that first one you posted is indeed an 8...but barely. Still not good enough for a guy like the one in your profile.


Kai, thanks for helping me really think how my 'relationship' with a Latina woman is going to be in the future. I am mixed about the future because of other issues but I can best rank her at 4-6. I think her best day she is between a 5-6. I think that she knows that certain qualities I like she does not have plus with Rock's requirements such as height is a slight issue but not a permanent one. However, looking at her in various photos, I realized that I wish I had a woman with certain body porportions and a decent about 5'5-5'6. I think when I was visiting her, I saw women who were more of high tier than her. It was funny when looking at a woman briefly and she was pretty upset about it. She was Asian too. Oh well...
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