Why Aren't More Guys Here Focused on Getting Rich?

[djfourmoney]

[quote="HouseMD
I won't accept medicare.

Oh, so no poor or middle-income elderly patients for you, then. Well, you will be completely at the mercy of a cartel of bloodsucking middlemen who provide no service (insurance companies), unless you plan on rounding up a clientele of the ultra-affluent. In which case, the moral authority of your pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps sermons might be diminished somewhat in the eyes of people who are looking squarely at the dramatically increasing polarization of wealth and trying to figure out just what the heck is going on.

It is actually cheaper for many patients to pay for surgery out of pocket than pay with insurance due to the added costs insurance companies force upon providers. Surgery center of oklahoma is a cash only surgical center, which can perform an inguinal hernia repair for $3,060. The average cost of the same procedure in a hospital is $14,000. Even with insurance, you would likely end up paying more than 3k, as surgical copays are often 2k plus 20% of the cost of surgery. My insurance is good, in network it would cost me a 1k copay plus 2600 (20% coinsurance on 13k) for a total of 3600 or 570 dollars more than the place that doesnt accept insurance. Plus I plan to offer discount rates based on patient income and ability to pay and do some pro bono work, because its the ethical thing to do. How is it unethical to provide a needed service at reduced cost to the consumer and society? And how is it unethical to choose how many charity cases I perform, rather than being forced to perform them by a hospital employer? Look up surgery center of oklahoma, or any of the primary care practices that have gone cash only. The care costs LESS and is better than that offered by those with the overhead of insurance.

Hey, I'm all for it, if you can do it, which seems pretty doubtful in the US. My parents paid about 50 bucks to produce me back in 1950. And they paid out of pocket, as most medical consumers did back then. But in the interim the medical services industry has been taken over by the insurance industry, which has totally distorted the market. If you can function outside their distortion, more power to you.

But I'm going to pay careful attention to cornfed or anybody else who can help me understand why every aspect of the economy has been taken over and corrupted by the financial sector. And I'm pretty certain this subject is not irrelevant to the job market as a whole, which so many are having frustrating encounters with these days, especially white males.

Its super cheap to have surgeries done anywhere but here.

It cost your parents $50 to have you in 1950? Its about 100 times more than that now - http://www.newser.com/story/170316/us-m ... world.html

The truth is somewhat like this. In Britain, people with means buy healthcare insurance to get around the "Gatekeeper" system. But for things like births which are often planned well in advance are done by the NHS, where they pay - $0 (directly out of pocket). The key is not to be at the mercy of the NHS which the Torres are trying to make the case for going fully private, by cutting back its budget and services.

Whatever, like I said, you mutherfuckers can deal with damage control in Western World, I'm outta here.

[HouseMD]

I was in allied health prior to med school for 5 years, so I am well aware of CYA, the Joint Commission, etc, and the fact that I will likely do more paperwork than patient care.

OK, so you know you are essentially trying to become a government bureaucrat. How does this fit with your spiel about making it on your own?

Physicians doing paperwork is uncompensated time, which hardly makes me someone who is pushing paper for cash.

I am still waiting for your take on how to fix things cornfed. You offer no solutions yet attack anyone who provides one with which you disagree. How can anyone take a person that refuses to both field and defend their own solution seriously? Criticizing everyone that has a decent job or idea sure as hell doesnt give you the higher ground. You have to build that ground and defend it. You take an illogical position then call anyone that claims it is such stupid without providing proof that your outlandish claims are a reality. Personally I've always been a fan of Occam's razor, and your claims dont pass.

I sure as hell hope most people wandering through have the sense to listen to people like djfourmoney rather than the whargharbl coming out of cornfed. If not, the whole happierabroad movement is in for a world of hurt by being attached to ideas that are an infowars level of crazy.

[gsjackson]

Its super cheap to have surgeries down anywhere but here.

I wouldn't say super cheap, but rather a price determined by fair market value. I paid 11K euro for hip surgery in Belgium with one of the best hip surgeons in the world, even though I had health insurance in the US at the time. If I'd gotten the inferior procedure available to me then in the US, the bill, according to the hospital, would have been anywhere from $75K to $120K.

I could have gotten the same procedure in India with a quite competent surgeon for even less.

But in the US the market has been completely distorted by maximum-profit seekers at every stage: insurance companies, hospitals, medical device manufacturers, etc.

[HouseMD]

Its super cheap to have surgeries down anywhere but here.

I wouldn't say super cheap, but rather a price determined by fair market value. I paid 11K euro for hip surgery in Belgium with one of the best hip surgeons in the world, even though I had health insurance in the US at the time. If I'd gotten the inferior procedure available to me then in the US, the bill, according to the hospital, would have been anywhere from $75K to $120K.

I could have gotten the same procedure in India with a quite competent surgeon for even less.

But in the US the market has been completely distorted by maximum-profit seekers at every stage: insurance companies, hospitals, medical device manufacturers, etc.

I wouldn't consider 11k super cheap, but it is a bargain for a new lease on life. It is a crime that medicare and private insurance generally will not cover overseas medical care.

[djfourmoney]

I was in allied health prior to med school for 5 years, so I am well aware of CYA, the Joint Commission, etc, and the fact that I will likely do more paperwork than patient care.

OK, so you know you are essentially trying to become a government bureaucrat. How does this fit with your spiel about making it on your own?

Physicians doing paperwork is uncompensated time, which hardly makes me someone who is pushing paper for cash.

I am still waiting for your take on how to fix things cornfed. You offer no solutions yet attack anyone who provides one with which you disagree. How can anyone take a person that refuses to both field and defend their own solution seriously? Criticizing everyone that has a decent job or idea sure as hell doesnt give you the higher ground. You have to build that ground and defend it. You take an illogical position then call anyone that claims it is such stupid without providing proof that your outlandish claims are a reality. Personally I've always been a fan of Occam's razor, and your claims dont pass.

I sure as hell hope most people wandering through have the sense to listen to people like djfourmoney rather than the whargharbl coming out of cornfed. If not, the whole happierabroad movement is in for a world of hurt by being attached to ideas that are an infowars level of crazy.

Thanks man, these people crack me up. Doomsday scenarios have been popular with all societies, the truth is, companies like Discovery are profiting off it by showing how clownish some of these people are.

The solution as always is somewhere in the middle. Doctors should be allowed to do what they do best; which is help people. If the Government is more efficient in allowing that to happen without being a burden to the population, then so be it. Health care is no place to have a profit motive, all insurance companies should be Non-Profits like Switzerland.

Either way there are solutions that are tried and tested. American society is not mature enough to handle Anarchy. Only children go around blaming victims...

[Moretorque]

I'm not going to be "rich" by what many people would think of as rich but I am really focussed on having "enough" money. I don't think I have what it takes to be rich but I can get enough money for my needs.

I'm up to year 14 ie if I left my job tomorrow I'd have enough money to last for 14 years (1500 USD per month inflation adjusted - inflation rate of 3%, rate of return of 6% after tax). I'm a way off from getting to my goal of 25 years but really keen to make it.

The official rate of inflation already makes your plan flawed; The Unofficial inflation number is around 9%.

It also stands to go up, though I don't believe we'll ever experience the hyperinflation alarmist like to talk about.

IMHO and I don't claim to be an expert but it seems to me you need to project what inflation is going to be 10-15-20 years out and adjust whichever one is easier -

Lifestyle or Income source

However the truth is worst than that, since 1970 on some items vital to being considered "Middle Class" have gone up 200-300%!

Cornfed is right, the economy has been basically stagnant since the 1970's, Dean Baker has been saying this for a very long time actually.

There is a counter to this, however. What you can own at the same income level would be mind blowing to a person in the 70s. While they might have hardly been able to afford a color TV, we have flat screens for a fraction of our yearly income that are larger than the largest of TVs at that time. We can afford cell phones, computers, cars, a washer and dryer, a refrigerator, international flights, you name it, many of which were only possessed by the wealthy in years past. In 1980, you had to be an iBanker to have a cell phone- today most African have one. Many of us are relatively upset that there are those who have so much more than us, leading us to forget how great the things we own actually are. Income inequality is a bitch like that.

The essentials of life have become more expensive, yes, but many of the amenities that make modern life what it is have decreased in relative price ten to a hundredfold compared to the 70s.

And if you want to strike a blow to those that run this country, make as much money as you can as fast as you can, then retire overseas and spend it elsewhere. Pulling money out of their system is the only way to make them feel some pain- you cant funnel all the money to the top if it never enters the funnel to begin with. But it will take a lot of people relocating and renouncing their citizenship to make any real difference.

Color TV's made in the US by various companies like Thompson Electronics (RCA) are now outsourced to cheaper locations to maintain profit margins but offer the same product at a lower price to manufacture. Same with computers, all manufactured in Southeast Asia, including Apple.

I don't disagree technology advances have made products previously enjoyed by the wealth affordable, it's they way in which it was done is what many have a problem with.

The US/EU/Asia is switching to a information based economy when society was not prepared for it; Who's fault is that? Are you suppose to read tea leaves?

More wealth was created coming out of the Great Depression then there was going into it. The question becomes are you going to take advantage of that and how?

Its the how that people get stuck on.

Everybody has a skill they can put to work. I've given several examples... I am going the blog/media route, I believe I have found a niche to exploit.

I don't think what I am doing will be funded by an angel fund, so I am not sure getting a business plan together from Fiver will help here. I really just need some cold hard cash, I think $5K will get it done, it could be less.

Some of that cheap technology can be put to use, but I think too many people are thinking far too conventionally.

People still cannot see this, the human race is taking a IQ test at the moment and failing it. There are alot of issues here and our rulers decided the best system for the future would be to build a house of cards and take control world wide by burying everything in debt.

This is the system we currently use, they built a infinite growth paradigm in the hopes they could take control of the world and manage Daa herd into a stable, sustainable, manageable, compliant entity. The system is not going to work because globalization is accelerating the death of the eco system.

They know this and this is why they are building arks to try and save what they can. Prices could and should be going down because the production side of everything is becoming much more efficient but they keep going up overall because the money is not tied to anything real of value and it is going to it's real value.

This system of credit is designed to cheat you out of the fruits of your labor and transfer world wide wealth to the people issuing this debt based digit money. You will never be able to outrun the inflation the current system generates.

The US fake $ has the luxury of being backed by oil, go research what has happened to all currencies not tied to something real. They go to their real value of 0 eventually but to the issuer it does not matter because they have unlimited amounts of it to try and re inflate the system when it collapses.

It is when people understand the reason to back your currency with something real of value will all the inflation come to a halt for the most part and real supply and demand economics can then take hold.

They have duped all of us with counterfeit money and this system is world wide so you are not going to run from the debt monster no matter where you go.

It requires an educated populace to make a stable sustainable society and we just don't have that and the elite know this and that is why they have chosen to do what they are doing.

[gsjackson]

I wouldn't consider 11k super cheap, but it is a bargain for a new lease on life. It is a crime that medicare and private insurance generally will not cover overseas medical care.

New lease on life is exactly right. I'm not a huge fan of allopathic medicine, but sometimes the parts just wear out and have to be replaced. At a certain point in end-stage hip arthritis you have only two options -- surgery or be a pain-ridden cripple the rest of your life. And believe me, I tried most of the alternatives.

Not just a crime, but totally bizarre that overseas care isn't covered. I couldn't have had a better outcome -- and nine years down the road I still haven't had problem one with the hip -- but the insurance company used lack of FDA approval for hip resurfacing at the time as their excuse. A few months later FDA approval finally came, but they still wouldn't pay. Presumably they would have paid a substantial portion of the ten times higher bill they would have gotten for a total hip replacement from the Univ. of Wisconsin hospital. Wisconsin, BTW, tried to scare me away from the resurfacing procedure. Two years later they were advertising their expertise in the procedure during telecasts of UW basketball games.

Guess we've gotten a bit afield of the OT, but I still maintain that the corruptions in various American marketplaces caused by the financial sector are a big part of the job problem. I have no idea whether "they," our presumed overlords and masters, are behind it, as Cornfed et al maintain, but the situation could hardly be any more screwed up if it was the product of some grand conspiracy.

[Maverick]

I was in allied health prior to med school for 5 years, so I am well aware of CYA, the Joint Commission, etc, and the fact that I will likely do more paperwork than patient care.

OK, so you know you are essentially trying to become a government bureaucrat. How does this fit with your spiel about making it on your own?

Physicians doing paperwork is uncompensated time, which hardly makes me someone who is pushing paper for cash.

I am still waiting for your take on how to fix things cornfed. You offer no solutions yet attack anyone who provides one with which you disagree. How can anyone take a person that refuses to both field and defend their own solution seriously? Criticizing everyone that has a decent job or idea sure as hell doesnt give you the higher ground. You have to build that ground and defend it. You take an illogical position then call anyone that claims it is such stupid without providing proof that your outlandish claims are a reality. Personally I've always been a fan of Occam's razor, and your claims dont pass.

I sure as hell hope most people wandering through have the sense to listen to people like djfourmoney rather than the whargharbl coming out of cornfed. If not, the whole happierabroad movement is in for a world of hurt by being attached to ideas that are an infowars level of crazy.

Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens on what is, essentially, an unmoderated forum.

[Moretorque]

I was in allied health prior to med school for 5 years, so I am well aware of CYA, the Joint Commission, etc, and the fact that I will likely do more paperwork than patient care.

OK, so you know you are essentially trying to become a government bureaucrat. How does this fit with your spiel about making it on your own?

Physicians doing paperwork is uncompensated time, which hardly makes me someone who is pushing paper for cash.

I am still waiting for your take on how to fix things cornfed. You offer no solutions yet attack anyone who provides one with which you disagree. How can anyone take a person that refuses to both field and defend their own solution seriously? Criticizing everyone that has a decent job or idea sure as hell doesnt give you the higher ground. You have to build that ground and defend it. You take an illogical position then call anyone that claims it is such stupid without providing proof that your outlandish claims are a reality. Personally I've always been a fan of Occam's razor, and your claims dont pass.

I sure as hell hope most people wandering through have the sense to listen to people like djfourmoney rather than the whargharbl coming out of cornfed. If not, the whole happierabroad movement is in for a world of hurt by being attached to ideas that are an infowars level of crazy.

Thanks man, these people crack me up. Doomsday scenarios have been popular with all societies, the truth is, companies like Discovery are profiting off it by showing how clownish some of these people are.

The solution as always is somewhere in the middle. Doctors should be allowed to do what they do best; which is help people. If the Government is more efficient in allowing that to happen without being a burden to the population, then so be it. Health care is no place to have a profit motive, all insurance companies should be Non-Profits like Switzerland.

Either way there are solutions that are tried and tested. American society is not mature enough to handle Anarchy. Only children go around blaming victims...

The government is stopping the whole system up, profit is no problem, it becomes a problem when you do not have sound money so everybody gets a shot by a free and open market, our rulers know this and that is why they do what they do and then tell you the markets are free and open by the media they control your mind with.

As JD Rockefeller said competition is sin because somebody else will dethrone you just like winning a Super Bowl, try and do it again.

If you want to see how bad medical is being stifled by the state watch the movie " Cancer is Serious Business " by doctor Brynzinski. It is interesting to say the least, why has nothing been cured since polio in the 50's? because our rulers have decided competition is sin.

[Moretorque]

I was in allied health prior to med school for 5 years, so I am well aware of CYA, the Joint Commission, etc, and the fact that I will likely do more paperwork than patient care.

OK, so you know you are essentially trying to become a government bureaucrat. How does this fit with your spiel about making it on your own?

Physicians doing paperwork is uncompensated time, which hardly makes me someone who is pushing paper for cash.

I am still waiting for your take on how to fix things cornfed. You offer no solutions yet attack anyone who provides one with which you disagree. How can anyone take a person that refuses to both field and defend their own solution seriously? Criticizing everyone that has a decent job or idea sure as hell doesnt give you the higher ground. You have to build that ground and defend it. You take an illogical position then call anyone that claims it is such stupid without providing proof that your outlandish claims are a reality. Personally I've always been a fan of Occam's razor, and your claims dont pass.

I sure as hell hope most people wandering through have the sense to listen to people like djfourmoney rather than the whargharbl coming out of cornfed. If not, the whole happierabroad movement is in for a world of hurt by being attached to ideas that are an infowars level of crazy.

Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens on what is, essentially, an unmoderated forum.

Not everybody is going to be so stupid, America has documents we are supposed to be using to govern this country, why are they no longer in affect? because America filed bankruptcy in the great depression and the creditor social engineer's took it over. The people signed up for this populace management system so be it, what was posted sounds like a threat and that is how socialist dictatorships work, do as the credit monopoly says or else.

You would think the human race would grow up eventually but obviously not, I'm rooten for the mass extinction.

[Rich]

I'm not going to be "rich" by what many people would think of as rich but I am really focussed on having "enough" money. I don't think I have what it takes to be rich but I can get enough money for my needs.

I'm up to year 14 ie if I left my job tomorrow I'd have enough money to last for 14 years (1500 USD per month inflation adjusted - inflation rate of 3%, rate of return of 6% after tax). I'm a way off from getting to my goal of 25 years but really keen to make it.

The official rate of inflation already makes your plan flawed; The Unofficial inflation number is around 9%.

It also stands to go up, though I don't believe we'll ever experience the hyperinflation alarmist like to talk about.

IMHO and I don't claim to be an expert but it seems to me you need to project what inflation is going to be 10-15-20 years out and adjust whichever one is easier -

Lifestyle or Income source

However the truth is worst than that, since 1970 on some items vital to being considered "Middle Class" have gone up 200-300%!

Cornfed is right, the economy has been basically stagnant since the 1970's, Dean Baker has been saying this for a very long time actually.

Inflation is hard to get right. 4% might be a better estimate. MD makes a lot of valid points - costs really haven't gone up for the majority of items. In fact, things are cheaper than they've ever been. According to research by Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren (I like her economics but not her politics) the only two things that households spend more on now than compared to 1970s are mortgages and cars. An individual car is much cheaper than in the 1970s but households tend to have more than one car nowadays. In the 1950s only 15% per cent of American households had more than one car.

[Jester]

You said that having lots of money attracts women. This is true, but do you want
women to love you for the size of your bank account?

I like it when a woman is attracted to me for who I am, not for my money, and I don't
care if that sounds corny or romantic.

I read a PUA guy once say that if you are a rich guy, and you start dating a girl,
you should never show her your best cars, best apartments, best clothing, etc.

Dress modestly, don't show off any of your wealth, take her to a modest apartment,
so that she falls in love with you, not your wallet.

That just shows you what stupid crap PUA come out with. I've read the same thing from females. Instead of smoking hot females cynically intending to loot his wealth he would have a smaller number of fat heifers cynically intending to loot his wealth. As to wanting females to "love you for you", such a thing is simply not possible. Females are survival-driven robots that focus of what men can do for them, whether it is providing them with resources, enhancing their social status (which they parlay for access to resources) or whatever. That is the world we have always lived in.

HA is like fresh air.

[Jeremy]

I just landed an interview for a barista job. I'm goin' places, babay!

[Jester]

I never claimed this place was devoid of people that could hustle. I was more targeting the cornfed types with my comment. If the global financial system has yet to collapse completely, the chances of it collapsing before any of us die is rather slim. People who clutch fast to this bullshit are no better than those that claim the end of the world is near, as they are really the exact same thing, with one claiming the end of society and the others claiming the end of all life will befall us. In the end, they have all looked foolish at best or insane at worst, and it is likely that those peddling this shit will end up in the same camp.

But sanity aside, just examine things with logic, that excellent skill which schools no longer attempts to hone. If you are correct, cornfed and company, and choose to opt out of success in the financial system then it collapses, you have a stash of food and some guns and are completely broke and surrounded by chaos. If you are incorrect the same outcome occurs sans chaos, you are broke and crazy with a stash of food and guns. Now imagine you held the same beliefs but also attempted to acheive financial success. When the economy collapses, you will have had more resources with which to purchase vital commodities with which you can survive and could live a great life until SHTF. If you are wrong about the financial collapse a n d new world order craziness, you still get to live an awesome life and just have a stash of useless food and guns that you can laugh aboit ever stashing.

Don't be a lazy manchild and throw a hissy fit and refuse to play a game that is stacked against you. Play that shit like a man: be the underdog, fight, and win......

In response to some unsubstantiated idea that a mass extinction will occur, your argument completely fails to account for what happens if you are wrong. A wise man considers both the positives and negatives of their position. The negative of your position is that you are effectively a societal outcast and have few resources with which to control your life within the conventional socioeconomic system. The upsides are you don't have to work as hard and have plenty of time to criticize the life choices of others and feel enlightened. If what you believe to be coming turns out to be a pile of bullshit, you have gained nothing save for a stigma of crazy. If you are correct and there is an extinction event, you will die knowing you were right all along. Woo hoo. You get motherf***ing nothing basically. Congratulations, come get your prize.

If you acquire resources, you can diversify and even protect yourself from such an event you so strongly seem to believe will occur. You can buy your own shelter, small island, food, whatever, and not be a powerless pawn in the whole thing. And you seem to believe that I am a consumer, which is foolish. Consumption is the material of the shackles that bind you. Never buy on credit, don't buy shit you don't need, work hard, and save everything you can in a diversified portfolio of stocks, commodities, bonds, and physical goods. I don't own a house, and in fact have a roommate. Hell, my mattress doesn't even have a frame and I own so little that I could fit 90% of everything I own in a Hyundai. I have a solid bank account and savings, plus a diversified portfolio. By owning so little, and having so much cash at my disposal, I hope to retire to a modest life in Southeast Asia by my 40s. Yeah, totally wrecking the earth by living like a Spartan and desiring financial independence above all things.

What poor and financially illiterate people don't understand about money is that it doesnt exist to buy you stuff, it exists to give you options. There are only two paths to having some semblance of freedom in your life, by which you can come and go as you please and not worry about money. The first of these is to have enough money that it isn't an issue and you can do as you please. The second is to be a hobo and forsake money entirely and be a homeless vagabond. Anywhere in between these extremes, you will never truly be free. Money is the resource of the day, by which all things are possible. If you choose not to harvest it, you are a fool, just as you would be a fool to not attempt to procure whatever resource becomes the prime commodity after a global collapse, be it food or bullets.

And this all is completely separate from women. All men should strive for greatness in their lives, to be mediocre and complacent is the greatest sin of men in our day and age. Imagine your ancestors before you looking down upon your life and then meeting with you. What would you say to them? What great contribution to their lineage could you be proud to provide? If you have nothing worthwhile and nothing in the works, you are hardly a man at all.

But I digress.

Thanks.

[Jester]

As HA'ers know, I usually agree with dismal views of our situation in modern AngloZone socirty. It really is that bad.

Two hour resume data entry for a grocery bagging job interview is a perfect example. (I think it was Jeremy, posting above.) Noone in American history ever had to endure something that pointless, humiliating, and obnoxious before - except slaves and convicts. Even during depressions of the past, you always got a job (or not) by showing up and asking. No groveling was required.

Modern AngloZone society wants men to be sissies and women to be sluts. There will be less friction if you comply.

Nevertheless, HouseMD is EXACTLY right about the attitude to take. I will survive. Me. Mine.

Fixing society, that does not seek fixing, is not our job. To focus excessively on helping those who don't want to be helped is a form of "White Knighting".

The survival of your own bloodline is Job One.

Ready. Get set. Go.

HouseMD is the guy we should be listening to here.

As long as you aren't telling lies, or otherwise performing unmanly acts of submission, there is nothing wrong with getting as rich as possible, even in Fed paper. Like ammunition, it can be used to acquire other things.


Once again, HouseMD -- thanks.