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Postby Cornfed » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:26 am

On the face of it, human agricultural populations do seem to have a particular lifecycle and we do appear to have reached the end of ours. The basic problems are that agriculture is inefficient, so resources must constantly be fed into the system from outside, and that agricultural populations tend to breed too fast. This means that in order to survive we must constantly get our hands more resources and more technology to allow us to do so, or else face collapse. Numerous collapses have happened, generally coming as something of a surprise since they tend to occur at the height of the society’s supposed greatness. Right now the system has expanded to encompass the whole planet, leaving us with nowhere else to go for resources, and technological advance seems to have largely ground to a halt for whatever reason. Hence on the face of it, global collapse and mass die-off would seem inevitable. A good thing too, as it will confer a selective advantage on intelligent and capable people, rather than the stupid scumbags favored by the current system.
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Re: Is the world coming to an end?

Postby Cornfed » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:20 am

Teal Lantern wrote: Unless there's a rogue neutron star or hostile Type II+ civilization in our future, you'll have until the sun runs low on hydrogen to concern yourself with the end of the world.
That is still millions of years away, long past the point of humanity caring.

There have been two mass die-offs, perhaps caused by the planet Venus as a comet, in the past few thousand years - one about ten thousand years ago and the other about three thousand years ago. Some say another is on the way, which is why underground cities are being secretly constructed by the elite and would also explain why the Western world is being run like in will go out of business in a couple of years.
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Postby djfourmoney » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:45 pm

Ghost wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:No


Thanks for the detailed and thought provoking response explaining your position.


Why do you need a detailed, thought provoking response from me of all people?

I break it down like this -

If you're very religious/extremist/orthodox then the answer to your question might be = Yes

If you think a bit more logical, then the answer is = No

Is there a breakdown in society, sure, but the question be asked is WHY is that?
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Postby Jester » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:57 pm

theprimebait wrote:a few words:

Peak oil - KILL OFF CRIMINALS, LIVE IN THE CITY CLOSE TO WORK, DRIVE LESS, USE TRAINS, DRILL MORE, DRILL DEEPER, BUILD NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, DRIVE ELECTRIC CARS. LONGTERM: FUSION PLANTS, HYDROGEN FUEL.

peak soil/Agriculture - HYDROPONIC, PLANT VEGGIES IN YARDS, PLANT VEGGIES IN GOLF COURSES.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ing-itself KEEP WOMEN HOME, RE-OPEN NEIGHBORHOOD GROCERIES, WALK TO STORE, DRIVE LESS, CLOSE SOME SHOPPING MALLS, TEAR UP UNUSED ASPHALT AND CONCRETE PARKING LOTS, MORE URBAN FARMING

Peak water DESALINIZATION, AND THIS IS WOULD MAKE MASSIVELY USED AGRICULTURAL WATER COST AS MUCH AS CITY WATER. PROBABLY WHAT WE'LL HAVE TO DO. BUT FIRST STEP WOULD BE TO STOP PENTAGON WEATHER WARFARE CREATING ARTIFICIAL DROUGHTS AND STORMS. THEN BUILD WATER STORAGE, PIPELINE AND CANAL INFRASTRUCTURE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

Yellowstone supervolcano I BET THERE IS SOME GEO-ENGINEERING SOLUTION THAT WILL MITIGATE THE DANGER.



Your points are good. My point is that problems have solutions, provided the will exists.
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Postby Jester » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:37 am

HouseMD wrote:The thing is, shit probably isn't run by an organized group of anyone. Bankers don't work together, they each just manipulate the system as best as they can to their own advantage. Expecting that a group of greedy sociopaths (two traits that preclude putting other's interests above your own) would work together perfectly and in secret just doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. And that not a single one of them would change his mind and expose then makes even less, as very few people can be unflinchingly evil for a prolonged period of time, so they would probably accidentally let someone with a conscience in at some point.


From Rich Cohen, writing for the New York Times Sunday Review of Books:
The F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover long denied the existence of the Mafia in America. He did not deny the existence of criminals, of course, or the fact that many of them came from Sicily; but he did not believe, or said he did not, that these men, dispersed in cities across the nation, worked in conspiracy, either because he underestimated them, had been paid off or simply did not care.
(emphasis added)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/books ... .html?_r=0

Of course everyone now accepts that there IS a Sicilian Mafia, despite previous denials. Consisting of "greedy sociopaths". And indeed they DO "work together." And in secret, though not perfectly so.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost
forty years."

It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world
if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a
world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite
and world bankers is surely preferable to the national
auto-determination practiced in past centuries.
-- David Rockefeller

Here's a recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpw-n4TFf_M

For years, the "mainstream" (controlled) media claimed that the Bilderberg group, specifically, did not exist. Now it's well-known, though not widely reported. Here's a video of of their members being hassled by Swiss protestors during an ill-advised nature walk. Yup, real people, they really exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM8op48aruA

And no, the Italian Mafia never did "accidentally let someone with a conscience in at some point." Never. Fancy that. Perhaps because they required people to "make their bones" first. As do the MS-13, though not always with a murder.

As do the Illuminati, too, I suspect, in various ways.

After all, just to get into Skull and Bones at Yale College, it's reported that you have to jack off in a coffin full of dirt in front of other "Bonesmen". Moral compromise is apparently a great bonding tool.

HouseMD wrote:And your last idea actually reinforces my point- it is impossible for anyone to be in control. Those at the top of Chinese society would likely find any Western derived plot completely out of step with their beliefs. I doubt the leaders of India would be so persuaded to join a conspiracy either, as it is unlikely one could exist that serves the leaders of all societies equally. Who would sign on to be a second class villain? No one can control the world, it is just too complicated, and anyone that attempted to do so would likely be thwarted by the other PTB............


True, PTB will fail to rule the world, it's a certainty. Doesn't mean they aren't trying to do so. Regarding who wold sign on to be a second class villain -- answer: everyone who is not a first-class villain. Read the news. Everybody plays ball with Uncle Sam and the Rothschild banking cartel. Disagreements are civil, almost cordial. Threaten the wrong guy, and they can do a regime change (Iraq, Libya). Or something else nasty (Fukushima). India does the bare minimum to get along. China plays along while getting armed (and has never been a militarily adventurous people). Russia seems to be part of the club in some ways (supports US gun control, doesn't question 9/11 baloney) but tweaks the Anglo-Zionist branch every chance they get (e.g. RT News, and e.g. Snowden). Pretty clear that Russians would pounce if the Anglo-Euro-Jew branch ever looked weak. Ever see "The Godfather"?

Yes there are squabbles. But there are specific rules of engagement. All-out war wouldn't be good for business.
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Postby Teal Lantern » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:54 am

Jester wrote:Your points are good. My point is that problems have solutions, provided the will exists.

Under the current regime, any solution that cannot also weaponized will not receive funding or any major positive mention.
Reactors are uranium instead of LFTR for a reason, safety and costs be damned. :lol:
High costs are even better when .gov is writing the checks, and thorium doesn't make things go boom.

They'll wait until the Chinese or Japanese get a LFTR up and running, then run screaming about how 'Murica is falling behind. :roll:
не поглеждай назад. 8)

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Postby HouseMD » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:56 am

Jester wrote:
HouseMD wrote:The thing is, shit probably isn't run by an organized group of anyone. Bankers don't work together, they each just manipulate the system as best as they can to their own advantage. Expecting that a group of greedy sociopaths (two traits that preclude putting other's interests above your own) would work together perfectly and in secret just doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. And that not a single one of them would change his mind and expose then makes even less, as very few people can be unflinchingly evil for a prolonged period of time, so they would probably accidentally let someone with a conscience in at some point.


From Rich Cohen, writing for the New York Times Sunday Review of Books:
The F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover long denied the existence of the Mafia in America. He did not deny the existence of criminals, of course, or the fact that many of them came from Sicily; but he did not believe, or said he did not, that these men, dispersed in cities across the nation, worked in conspiracy, either because he underestimated them, had been paid off or simply did not care.
(emphasis added)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/books ... .html?_r=0

Of course everyone now accepts that there IS a Sicilian Mafia, despite previous denials. Consisting of "greedy sociopaths". And indeed they DO "work together." And in secret, though not perfectly so.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost
forty years."

It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world
if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a
world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite
and world bankers is surely preferable to the national
auto-determination practiced in past centuries.
-- David Rockefeller

Here's a recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpw-n4TFf_M

For years, the "mainstream" (controlled) media claimed that the Bilderberg group, specifically, did not exist. Now it's well-known, though not widely reported. Here's a video of of their members being hassled by Swiss protestors during an ill-advised nature walk. Yup, real people, they really exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM8op48aruA

And no, the Italian Mafia never did "accidentally let someone with a conscience in at some point." Never. Fancy that. Perhaps because they required people to "make their bones" first. As do the MS-13, though not always with a murder.

As do the Illuminati, too, I suspect, in various ways.

After all, just to get into Skull and Bones at Yale College, it's reported that you have to jack off in a coffin full of dirt in front of other "Bonesmen". Moral compromise is apparently a great bonding tool.

HouseMD wrote:And your last idea actually reinforces my point- it is impossible for anyone to be in control. Those at the top of Chinese society would likely find any Western derived plot completely out of step with their beliefs. I doubt the leaders of India would be so persuaded to join a conspiracy either, as it is unlikely one could exist that serves the leaders of all societies equally. Who would sign on to be a second class villain? No one can control the world, it is just too complicated, and anyone that attempted to do so would likely be thwarted by the other PTB............


True, PTB will fail to rule the world, it's a certainty. Doesn't mean they aren't trying to do so. Regarding who wold sign on to be a second class villain -- answer: everyone who is not a first-class villain. Read the news. Everybody plays ball with Uncle Sam and the Rothschild banking cartel. Disagreements are civil, almost cordial. Threaten the wrong guy, and they can do a regime change (Iraq, Libya). Or something else nasty (Fukushima). India does the bare minimum to get along. China plays along while getting armed (and has never been a militarily adventurous people). Russia seems to be part of the club in some ways (supports US gun control, doesn't question 9/11 baloney) but tweaks the Anglo-Zionist branch every chance they get (e.g. RT News, and e.g. Snowden). Pretty clear that Russians would pounce if the Anglo-Euro-Jew branch ever looked weak. Ever see "The Godfather"?

Yes there are squabbles. But there are specific rules of engagement. All-out war wouldn't be good for business.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. It is possible that there is a group that is that organized and completely impossible for a decent human being to penetrate, but as a guy who believes in evidence and facts, I just can't buy it. Yes, there are certain groups of people that get together that happen to be very wealthy, and they may cooperate on certain issues, but I simply cannot believe that there is some grand cohesive plan happening, rather than a large number of wealthy individuals working for their own rational self interest. Sometimes that may move in the same direction, sometimes not. Look at battles over internet freedom that have been happening, with massive players on both sides. If there were some grand conspiracy that all the powerful people in the world were in on, that shit wouldn't happen. It'd be written to their will and passed, end of story.

But if some massive conspiracy ever comes to fruition and we're all suddenly slaves of some ultra corrupt global government, I'll be the first to admit just how wrong I was during my allotted social time in the FEMA camps. Until then, I'm sticking to my plan of cutting myself free of the system and enjoying life while I'm at it, rather than worrying about a big "what if".
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Re: Is the world coming to an end?

Postby Moretorque » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:04 am

Cornfed wrote:
Teal Lantern wrote: Unless there's a rogue neutron star or hostile Type II+ civilization in our future, you'll have until the sun runs low on hydrogen to concern yourself with the end of the world.
That is still millions of years away, long past the point of humanity caring.

There have been two mass die-offs, perhaps caused by the planet Venus as a comet, in the past few thousand years - one about ten thousand years ago and the other about three thousand years ago. Some say another is on the way, which is why underground cities are being secretly constructed by the elite and would also explain why the Western world is being run like in will go out of business in a couple of years.


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Postby Moretorque » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:13 am

HouseMD wrote:
Jester wrote:
HouseMD wrote:The thing is, shit probably isn't run by an organized group of anyone. Bankers don't work together, they each just manipulate the system as best as they can to their own advantage. Expecting that a group of greedy sociopaths (two traits that preclude putting other's interests above your own) would work together perfectly and in secret just doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. And that not a single one of them would change his mind and expose then makes even less, as very few people can be unflinchingly evil for a prolonged period of time, so they would probably accidentally let someone with a conscience in at some point.


From Rich Cohen, writing for the New York Times Sunday Review of Books:
The F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover long denied the existence of the Mafia in America. He did not deny the existence of criminals, of course, or the fact that many of them came from Sicily; but he did not believe, or said he did not, that these men, dispersed in cities across the nation, worked in conspiracy, either because he underestimated them, had been paid off or simply did not care.
(emphasis added)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/books ... .html?_r=0

Of course everyone now accepts that there IS a Sicilian Mafia, despite previous denials. Consisting of "greedy sociopaths". And indeed they DO "work together." And in secret, though not perfectly so.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost
forty years."

It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world
if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a
world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite
and world bankers is surely preferable to the national
auto-determination practiced in past centuries.
-- David Rockefeller

Here's a recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpw-n4TFf_M

For years, the "mainstream" (controlled) media claimed that the Bilderberg group, specifically, did not exist. Now it's well-known, though not widely reported. Here's a video of of their members being hassled by Swiss protestors during an ill-advised nature walk. Yup, real people, they really exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM8op48aruA

And no, the Italian Mafia never did "accidentally let someone with a conscience in at some point." Never. Fancy that. Perhaps because they required people to "make their bones" first. As do the MS-13, though not always with a murder.

As do the Illuminati, too, I suspect, in various ways.

After all, just to get into Skull and Bones at Yale College, it's reported that you have to jack off in a coffin full of dirt in front of other "Bonesmen". Moral compromise is apparently a great bonding tool.

HouseMD wrote:And your last idea actually reinforces my point- it is impossible for anyone to be in control. Those at the top of Chinese society would likely find any Western derived plot completely out of step with their beliefs. I doubt the leaders of India would be so persuaded to join a conspiracy either, as it is unlikely one could exist that serves the leaders of all societies equally. Who would sign on to be a second class villain? No one can control the world, it is just too complicated, and anyone that attempted to do so would likely be thwarted by the other PTB............


True, PTB will fail to rule the world, it's a certainty. Doesn't mean they aren't trying to do so. Regarding who wold sign on to be a second class villain -- answer: everyone who is not a first-class villain. Read the news. Everybody plays ball with Uncle Sam and the Rothschild banking cartel. Disagreements are civil, almost cordial. Threaten the wrong guy, and they can do a regime change (Iraq, Libya). Or something else nasty (Fukushima). India does the bare minimum to get along. China plays along while getting armed (and has never been a militarily adventurous people). Russia seems to be part of the club in some ways (supports US gun control, doesn't question 9/11 baloney) but tweaks the Anglo-Zionist branch every chance they get (e.g. RT News, and e.g. Snowden). Pretty clear that Russians would pounce if the Anglo-Euro-Jew branch ever looked weak. Ever see "The Godfather"?

Yes there are squabbles. But there are specific rules of engagement. All-out war wouldn't be good for business.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. It is possible that there is a group that is that organized and completely impossible for a decent human being to penetrate, but as a guy who believes in evidence and facts, I just can't buy it. Yes, there are certain groups of people that get together that happen to be very wealthy, and they may cooperate on certain issues, but I simply cannot believe that there is some grand cohesive plan happening, rather than a large number of wealthy individuals working for their own rational self interest. Sometimes that may move in the same direction, sometimes not. Look at battles over internet freedom that have been happening, with massive players on both sides. If there were some grand conspiracy that all the powerful people in the world were in on, that shit wouldn't happen. It'd be written to their will and passed, end of story.

But if some massive conspiracy ever comes to fruition and we're all suddenly slaves of some ultra corrupt global government, I'll be the first to admit just how wrong I was during my allotted social time in the FEMA camps. Until then, I'm sticking to my plan of cutting myself free of the system and enjoying life while I'm at it, rather than worrying about a big "what if".



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Postby Cornfed » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:23 am

HouseMD wrote: I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. It is possible that there is a group that is that organized and completely impossible for a decent human being to penetrate, but as a guy who believes in evidence and facts, I just can't buy it. Yes, there are certain groups of people that get together that happen to be very wealthy, and they may cooperate on certain issues, but I simply cannot believe that there is some grand cohesive plan happening, rather than a large number of wealthy individuals working for their own rational self interest. Sometimes that may move in the same direction, sometimes not. Look at battles over internet freedom that have been happening, with massive players on both sides. If there were some grand conspiracy that all the powerful people in the world were in on, that shit wouldn't happen. It'd be written to their will and passed, end of story.

But if some massive conspiracy ever comes to fruition and we're all suddenly slaves of some ultra corrupt global government, I'll be the first to admit just how wrong I was during my allotted social time in the FEMA camps. Until then, I'm sticking to my plan of cutting myself free of the system and enjoying life while I'm at it, rather than worrying about a big "what if".

To some extent the idea that a small shadowy network of related individuals rules the world is not a "conspiracy theory" as such, because that is generally how things work. If 200 years ago someone had pointed out that most of the world was run by and for European royalty and their banker associates, the general response would have been "Duh obviously". But at some point things changed? What date was that exactly? At different times it might be convenient for the rulers to let the serfs think they are masters of their own destiny. An example would be frontier times when people would have been hard to physically control. But lets not be taken it. Clearly policy in the West over the last few decades has been driven by a focused agenda against popular opposition. Policies like abortion on demand, mass immigration, affirmative action etc., none of which would have survived a popular vote, have been implemented all over the West by one means or another. Globalization is another related focused agenda that few supported, imposed by people behind the scenes. "Conspiracy" is in fact the normal mode of governance.
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Postby Cornfed » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:25 am

djfourmoney wrote:
Ghost wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:No


Thanks for the detailed and thought provoking response explaining your position.


Why do you need a detailed, thought provoking response from me of all people?

I break it down like this -

If you're very religious/extremist/orthodox then the answer to your question might be = Yes

If you think a bit more logical, then the answer is = No

What facts are you aware of that this conclusion logically follows from?
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Postby djfourmoney » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:12 am

Cornfed wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:
Ghost wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:No


Thanks for the detailed and thought provoking response explaining your position.


Why do you need a detailed, thought provoking response from me of all people?

I break it down like this -

If you're very religious/extremist/orthodox then the answer to your question might be = Yes

If you think a bit more logical, then the answer is = No

What facts are you aware of that this conclusion logically follows from?


Sigh...

I look at human behavior. Most of what is happening is history repeating itself. Others elements fit the scenes in A Clockwork Orange or Orwell's 1984. We as human beings have been dehumanizing others we don't agree, look differently, speak another language, etc. So if humans are seriously flawed, then at any given point, we have been close to self-destruction many times.

Does any of that have to do with religion? Sure, look what's happening in Egypt and Syria right now, that is a war between Muslims and Secularist/Christians, while the US props up whatever side benefits them from a Geopolitical POV.

Why do we spend so much time and money on Israel? Is this about the oil supply to the West coming from the East? Or is it about Revelations and all that?

Finally, if the sh*t is ending there isn't ANYTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, SO WHY EVEN TALK ABOUT IT?
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Postby Cornfed » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:29 am

djfourmoney wrote:Finally, if the sh*t is ending there isn't ANYTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, SO WHY EVEN TALK ABOUT IT?

There is likely nothing one can do about TEOTWAWKI but we may be able to increase the chances of our own survival and prepare for a post apocalyptic future in various ways. Even decisions as to whether to invest in pension funds and such would be affected.
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Postby djfourmoney » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:58 am

Cornfed wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:Finally, if the sh*t is ending there isn't ANYTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, SO WHY EVEN TALK ABOUT IT?

There is likely nothing one can do about TEOTWAWKI but we may be able to increase the chances of our own survival and prepare for a post apocalyptic future in various ways. Even decisions as to whether to invest in pension funds and such would be affected.


Prepare for what? Whatever Rinse Radio or Infowars says is an issue with water, food, chemtrails and the rest of it?

No collapse is coming, let me repeat that NO COLLAPSE IS COMING!

The dollar crashed and we went off the gold standard to save it, you're still here aren't you? Peak Oil? Well the OEM's take it seriously enough, but we'll still be driving cars in 20-30-40-50 years from now if not longer.

The ONLY thing you need to worry about is possible nuclear strike, which is the only doom scenario that's even possible. Sure a big rock could hit the planet but that's not likely to happen in your lifetime.

What the US is experiencing today is no different than what happen to the British Empire. Its demise will be different and much like Greece is still here, the US will be here still.

The only preparation you should be doing is moving to the East Coast or the West Coast, because the middle is going to have the most problems.

This precition is based on expert analyist from various sources.
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Postby Cornfed » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:00 am

Here is a site by Bill Gaede explaining why he thinks the entire human race will go extinct over the next few years.
http://youstupidrelativist.com/08Ext/00SumExt.html
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