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I don't want children, don't judge me

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Postby HouseMD » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Winston wrote:
HouseMD wrote:This kind of strikes at the heart of Winston's greatest flaw. Winston, I have a question- do you seek to bring any good to this world beyond pleasure for yourself and spreading the word that others can have this selfish but enjoyable existence themselves? It seems you advocate meeting women abroad, but not marrying them nor procreating with them. While most of us concede that marriage and children are personal choices, you seem to advocate your particular brand of hedonism for everyone.

I guess it all comes down to this: when you die, how do you want those you leave behind to remember you? What mark do you want to leave on this world? What brings you pleasure aside from simply bringing yourself pleasure? Do you live for nothing else?

I think you have a lot of great ideas, but a lot of misguided ones as well.


That's not my greatest flaw. I have far greater ones.

I don't understand your question. Sorry but I am not a self-sacrificing person who gets pleasure out of being selfless and serving others for nothing. Some do, but not all. Not everyone gets pleasure from doing charity work for no reward.

I do help others of course, in my own ways, but giving up your whole life and freedom for another is a another matter. We will all do favors for our friends but there are limits to charity and self-sacrifice.
Some guys are marriage types, others are not. I don't tell anyone here what to do. I just educate them on the consequences of doing so.

I've never said that I was a saint or angel. But I tell the truth. And many people appreciate that. I tell truths that others dare not. That should be admirable at least.

I'm not going to lie and pretend to be something I'm not.

The question is what matters to you in the grand scheme of life, basically. What brings you joy, and gives you a sense of purpose? Is there nothing more than hating on WW and getting your dick wet as your greater purpose?

Children and a wife don't need to be a part of anyone's reason for living, that is an entirely personal thing. But in their place, happy people tend to have a life's work, often one that benefits the world. Building orphanages or curing cancer or building a business empire, ya know, something to make living worthwhile outside of the moment. And living beyond the moment- for our children, country, religion, community, business, or whatever collective effort suits you- is what separates us from being animals. Our ability to work together, form complex social structures, and communicate defines our species.

So what is it that separates you from a beast, Mr. Wu, if you care not for any of the conventions and social contracts, modern or traditional, that make humans so separate from the animals of our world? I'm not asking what makes you a saint, I'm asking if you have any conventional humanity left in you.

Also, these aren't digs at you, I just want to understand where you are coming from as a person.
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Postby HouseMD » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:23 pm

S_Parc wrote:The underlying question, for either House or Winston, is whether or not one's activities and/or life's path (not always conjoined), derives some level of happiness, satisfaction, or beatitude?

If so, then in my opinion, altruism is a side effect, not the main driver. The first person who'd invented the dishwater, did it because her servants were routinely damaging the plates. Her invention was for herself but then later, the idea got around and was eventually available for others.

Upon thinking about it, I realized that perhaps altruism as a measuring device for how solid one's personal philosophy is was a flawed way to look at it. I feel like people should have some purpose, something they build that is a life's work and makes them fulfilled. For some, this might be trying to operate a business that makes as much money as possible, for others it might be running a homeless shelter. But one thing both of these endeavors have in common is that they enrich the community, the former by creating services and jobs, the latter by providing housing and food for those in need.

It could be argued that hobbies can provide some meaning in life. Hobbies make you a more complex person, but hobbies provide skills rather than purpose. What you use them for is what gives them purpose. If you play the guitar, congrats, you've got a skill. But if you are a paid musician, or play benefit concerts for a cause, or teach others your instrument for fun or profit, you enrich your community as well as yourself.

On this forum, people simultaneously complain that "modern Western society" has destroyed the functional structures that made life in the West great, while simultaneously saying they don't want marriage or children or religion in their lives, essentially perpetuating many of the lifestyles that have made Western living so awful (sleeping around, a lack of community, etc). Sluts are hated on while p4p is often celebrated.

If we want a world worth living in, in the West or the East, we need to focus on not just improving ourselves, but the community around us. Whether that's by starting up a call center and making money while employing people, by starting scholarships for kids to attend college in the Philippines, or simply by getting married, raising some kids right, and being good to your friends and those around you because it is the way things should be, that is up to the individual.

I suppose I'm rambling, but I am trying to put some of my thoughts and feelings about HA into words. This is a complex and confusing place, with many different people that have very different goals, but I would like if one of those goals we all had in common was to make the world a better place in whatever way we feel we best can, which is why this whole rant happened.
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Postby S_Parc » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:15 pm

HouseMD wrote:I suppose I'm rambling, but I am trying to put some of my thoughts and feelings about HA into words. This is a complex and confusing place, with many different people that have very different goals, but I would like if one of those goals we all had in common was to make the world a better place in whatever way we feel we best can, which is why this whole rant happened.


Here's the thing, since you'd attended medical school, your academic background already gives you a place in a society and thus, you get validation from others, that your work and your life is meaningful. This is one of the benefits of being a part of an established guild. Many workers in corporations, however, full time or contract, at the end of the day, do it for the paycheck than for some communal purpose... like healing the ill (or in a more practical sense, just keep 'em around longer).

If you look at historical luminaries, such as Hermann Melville, you can see that the man didn't derive much worldly success nor cultural validation, as his books weren't all the rage while he was alive. Upon passing, however, his stature in American literature ascended to the cream of the crop. At best, we could hope that at least he was satisfied with the work that he'd produced, whether or not anyone had read it.

Unfortunately, some of us on this forum are closer to Melville's station in life and thus, need to be able to function, without lofty accolades or validation from others around us. So if Winston does learn the guitar but fails to become a Ritchie Blackmore or Satriani, well, at least he can get some satisfaction from playing an instrument. Perhaps in the 22nd century, when American feminism collapses and historians search for the 'whys and the hows', that Winston's name comes up, as one of the pioneers of the age which will come, after our time is up. But then again, today, Winston can't be thinking about his place in posterity. Instead, he's got to live in the here and now, and deal with what he's got.
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Postby SilverEnergy » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:02 am

If you want kids, you better have your finances in order.

A kid is going to cost you at least $200,000 by the time they get 18 and inflation is going to get worse.
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Postby marklambo » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:18 am

SilverEnergy wrote:If you want kids, you better have your finances in order.

A kid is going to cost you at least $200,000 by the time they get 18 and inflation is going to get worse.


You're definitely right about that.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/14/pf/cost ... index.html

Image

It will cost an estimated $241,080 for a middle-income couple to raise a child born last year for 18 years, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released Wednesday. That's up almost 3% from 2011 and doesn't even include the cost of college.............


For higher income families, this number almost doubles. Raising a child is not only an emotional responsibility but a very large financial one as well.

Many people don't think about this before they have children. They start amassing loads of debt and then create a very stressful situation for themselves. There are many people out there that have kids when they're really not financially capable and not ready to do so. It's no different than how people buy homes and other luxuries beyond their means. Raising children is not the same as having pets. The costs and responsibilities are far greater.

It's one thing to want something but be prepared for a very long commitment.
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Postby HouseMD » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:30 am

marklambo wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:If you want kids, you better have your finances in order.

A kid is going to cost you at least $200,000 by the time they get 18 and inflation is going to get worse.


You're definitely right about that.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/14/pf/cost ... index.html

Image

It will cost an estimated $241,080 for a middle-income couple to raise a child born last year for 18 years, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released Wednesday. That's up almost 3% from 2011 and doesn't even include the cost of college.............


For higher income families, this number almost doubles. Raising a child is not only an emotional responsibility but a very large financial one as well.

Many people don't think about this before they have children. They start amassing loads of debt and then create a very stressful situation for themselves. There are many people out there that have kids when they're really not financially capable and not ready to do so. It's no different than how people buy homes and other luxuries beyond their means. Raising children is not the same as having pets. The costs and responsibilities are far greater.

It's one thing to want something but be prepared for a very long commitment.

Jesus, households making over 106k a year in my region spend around 26k a year per child? I live on less than that most years, these people are horrible with finances.
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Postby marklambo » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:37 am

HouseMD wrote:
marklambo wrote:
SilverEnergy wrote:If you want kids, you better have your finances in order.

A kid is going to cost you at least $200,000 by the time they get 18 and inflation is going to get worse.


You're definitely right about that.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/14/pf/cost ... index.html

Image

It will cost an estimated $241,080 for a middle-income couple to raise a child born last year for 18 years, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released Wednesday. That's up almost 3% from 2011 and doesn't even include the cost of college.............


For higher income families, this number almost doubles. Raising a child is not only an emotional responsibility but a very large financial one as well.

Many people don't think about this before they have children. They start amassing loads of debt and then create a very stressful situation for themselves. There are many people out there that have kids when they're really not financially capable and not ready to do so. It's no different than how people buy homes and other luxuries beyond their means. Raising children is not the same as having pets. The costs and responsibilities are far greater.

It's one thing to want something but be prepared for a very long commitment.

Jesus, households making over 106k a year in my region spend around 26k a year per child? I live on less than that most years, these people are horrible with finances.


Yea, tell me about it....

If you're raising a spoiled brat like this girl, $26k a year is quite easy to spend. What parent in their right mind would spoil a child like this? If you're going to raise a child, at least raise them so they can be of some value in the future. This girl will never learn the value of a hard earned dollar and it's clearly the parents fault. Some people seriously should just not have kids...

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Postby S_Parc » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:09 am

The problem is that kids aren't born as adults. And thus, they have to form their own worldviews w/o this notion that parents can work on them by telepathy.

With that in mind, it's better to have a happy, extended family than a sort of Yankee dysfunctional fractured household where people can't get along for more than a single Turkey day gathering per year. That large extended family (think South America) helps spread out the work of raising an offspring and at the same time, provides an venue for independence and cohesive bonding with others. I believe that had I been born in such a situation, I'd probably have kids.
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Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

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BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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Postby Teal Lantern » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Beyond a certain age (and that age seems to be younger than in years past), many women will have a fuck-trophy or two in tow.
If you don't want to deal with any kids at all, that will certainly lower your selection set of women.
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Postby djfourmoney » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:10 am

marklambo wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:Then don't have children.

Thanks for reminding us like so many outside of the mainstream culture feel like they have to announce they don't like this or that.

They also don't take your freedom or tie you down, that's nonsense with nothing specific to backup such a claim.

That's is about all I will say about it. I don't go around announcing I want to have children.

This is what HA has become a complain zone


If you don't like the topic, don't respond. You sound like the one who's complaining. HA is a forum for people to discuss whatever they want. You may not like what certain people talk about and that's ok but don't complain about it. When I see topics I don't like or don't feel like saying anything in them, I ignore them, simple as that. I don't come in and complain about what or why they posted what they did, it's immature. Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts, whether you like it or not. Get over it dude.

How is it that children don't tie you down? Children are a huge responsibility. If you decide you want to get away and travel, you can't just do it in a snap of a finger. If you decide you want to move to another state because of a new opportunity, it's not that easy to do when you have a child. What happens if someone divorces and children are involved and one parent wanted to move out of state? Now it's much harder because a child is involved. There are many reasons why children will hold you down, it's a fact and everyone knows it.

Children are a sacrifice. Some people don't mind being tied down to a child and are happy. But some people aren't.


I can do whatever I want and emotion is attached to this issue not logic; and that's why I am posting.

You are not a woman, the reason you don't want children shouldn't be based on emotion. Are you going to Mars on a five year mission and likely not to ever return to the earth?

Then logic says don't have children.

Otherwise you'll be basically useless to society as most single men are; consuming resources and spending wildly on meaningless sex, dangerous activities and defrauding the general public.

You can travel with children that's a myth and there's plenty of travel blogs that say otherwise. It takes planning like anything else in life. If you constantly fly by the seat of your pants then having children isn't a good idea, again LOGIC dictates that, not the emotional view of "My Freedoms will be taken from me".

You can't just pick up and move being childless. You have obligations like jobs, business, parents, pets, bills, snail mail, etc, etc, etc.

Plus like most Americans, I seriously doubt you have a grand in your pocket to just take a taxi over to airport and leave.

Nothing wrong with fact based debates, this isn't one of them and its similar to Winston's rant about having children even if he has one already and isn't sole providers or caregiver.

In Summary -

You can in-fact travel with children, Tim Leffel who owns the http://www.cheapestdestinationsblog.com/ travels with his wife and daughter currently living in Mexico (for the 2nd time).

I don't have children because I have not found the correct circumstances to have children yet. There's all sorts of ways to incorrectly have children such as having unprotected sex with a woman you merely find attractive and nothing else.

I don't care if people have children or not, just don't give me a load of crap emotional based reasons why. Make a logical argument of not having children (which there aren't many) and I likely wouldn't have replied the way I did.
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Postby djfourmoney » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:30 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
smallcheese wrote:If a man chooses to have or not have children, that is his personal choice. No need to judge anyone who makes a personal choice.

However, if you do have children but you fail to take full responsibility for the life that you bring into this world, then I will judge you. Most people on this board will probably not say anything to you but I will because you claim to be a seeker of truth. Winston, IMHO you are a hypocrite. You have no credibility on this subject. If you truly didn't want children, why did you father a child? Why didn't you have a vasectomy, which would have been the best thing to do if you did not want to have children?

Who are you to advocate that men should not have children? Why should anyone listen to you when you have your own son that you've left behind in the care of his mother. From what I understand, you provide financial support but that's it. You might visit once in a while, give gifts, take them to dinner, etc. but after awhile you leave again. Abdicating your responsibilities as a father to your son, except for the financial one. While you travel the world being happier abroad, you've left your son to be raised by his mother, indoctrinating and brainwashing him to her values.

Boys who are raised mostly by their mother usually grow up to be screwed up. At a minimum, they become another mangina in the world, endlessly white knighting women and putting them on a pedestal. Your son is already showing signs of being brainwashed. In another thread he calls you a playboy when he sees your picture. How much will he resent you or hate you after he grows up?

I have no respect for anyone who fails to take full responsibility for a life that they brought into this world. Your child didn't ask to be brought into this world. A man always has a choice and a real man takes full, not partial responsibility for the consequences of the choices that he makes. At least you're not as bad as many Filipino men, who father children and give absolutely no support to the children they bring into the world. At least you provide financial support.

I'm quite sure that you will relentlessly attack me for expressing this opinion and rationalize the choices that you've made. And your rationalization will go on and on and on and on..... But you can't change the truth.

Instead of calling your web site HappierAbroad, maybe you should change it to: SelfishlyHappierAbroad

I know you speak from a well-intentioned place, but you are so off the mark that I need to put you in check.

Let's dispossess you of some of you misconceptions. Men have NO LEGAL CHOICE and NO LEGAL REPRODUCTIVE rights regarding whether or not a woman has his children or not. Just because a man has a sexual relationship with a woman does not mean that he wants kids. If a woman ends up pregnant unintentionally, the man has no say in the matter.

Moreover, if the woman decides to have the child against the man's wishes, he will be liable for child support for 18 to 22 years depending on whether or not they go to college (most states follow this model.)

So cut the crap about men having choice about children because they don't. I'm not going to even get into the instances about women impregnating themselves with the contents of spent condoms just to get the legal and financial hooks into the man.

Men should have the right to walk away if the women have the children against the men's wishes!


I say Men do have a choice, in almost everything he does.

If you didn't date/f**k C and below rated women, there would not concern about having children against a man's wishes.

Date/Marry a stupid woman and the outcome won't be shocking to anybody but you.

I have plenty of choice. I wear a condom religiously (that's a choice), especially since the one time I didn't, my ex got pregnant. Eventually through some gentle prodding, she had an abortion.

After which she announced she wouldn't do that again. Fine with me, never had unprotected sex and she started taking the pill...

There is no logical (there's that word again) reason to have unexpected pregnancies. Of course they do happen but they are largely preventable with many products on the shelf.

If you say "it ruins the spur of the moment" again this being ruled by your emotions and not logic that if you want to prevent pregnancy.

a) Do not have sex with that woman
b) If you do decide to have sex with that woman, do you have condoms? If the answer is no, see A
c) Ask if she's on some type of birth control. If the answer is yes then proceed with caution, especially if she's ghetto.

I've heard all types of excuses but they never stand up to scientific evidence. The truth is, somebody missed their appointment to refill their birth control pills or shot, you get a reminder in the mail. All the major condom producers say there is a time limit to how long you can have a condom inside your wallet and exposing the package to all sorts of conditions increases its risk of failure.

Again, stop f***ing, low grade, nasty, f***ed up, raunchy woman and you would have little concern.
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Postby dreamer82 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:32 am

I think a lot of guys who have kids have them because a women fell for them and coaxed them into a relationship or marriage. A line these girls use is something like, "I want to have your children". All five or six of my closest friends in high school ended up with kids, two for each. I was kind of shocked that they did since I'm a born pessimist and had doubts about our economy since the '80s.

Luckily I'm a stereotypical tall, thin Caucasian "nice guy" and aloof so I never had many AW after me. I did have a couple opportunities with Koreans but I let them down. I think I secretly didn't want to have kids or even get married. It came down to money and I thought the chances were good I would get divorced because I'm a cheap bastard. Now that I'm in my forties and my sex drive is more manageable, I'm glad I didn't go through with the whole kids and marriage thing.

Besides being cheap and pessimistic, the biggest reason why I'm glad I didn't have kids is that we're a blight on the resources. Raising up little American suburbanites who have to be driven everywhere and will end up driving everywhere polluting the atmosphere is wrong I think. Our culture is also a joke. If I lived on a farm in Kazakhstan, then having a family would be practical.

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Postby marklambo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:42 pm

djfourmoney wrote:
marklambo wrote:
djfourmoney wrote:Then don't have children.

Thanks for reminding us like so many outside of the mainstream culture feel like they have to announce they don't like this or that.

They also don't take your freedom or tie you down, that's nonsense with nothing specific to backup such a claim.

That's is about all I will say about it. I don't go around announcing I want to have children.

This is what HA has become a complain zone


If you don't like the topic, don't respond. You sound like the one who's complaining. HA is a forum for people to discuss whatever they want. You may not like what certain people talk about and that's ok but don't complain about it. When I see topics I don't like or don't feel like saying anything in them, I ignore them, simple as that. I don't come in and complain about what or why they posted what they did, it's immature. Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts, whether you like it or not. Get over it dude.

How is it that children don't tie you down? Children are a huge responsibility. If you decide you want to get away and travel, you can't just do it in a snap of a finger. If you decide you want to move to another state because of a new opportunity, it's not that easy to do when you have a child. What happens if someone divorces and children are involved and one parent wanted to move out of state? Now it's much harder because a child is involved. There are many reasons why children will hold you down, it's a fact and everyone knows it.

Children are a sacrifice. Some people don't mind being tied down to a child and are happy. But some people aren't.


I can do whatever I want and emotion is attached to this issue not logic; and that's why I am posting.

You are not a woman, the reason you don't want children shouldn't be based on emotion. Are you going to Mars on a five year mission and likely not to ever return to the earth?

Then logic says don't have children.

Otherwise you'll be basically useless to society as most single men are; consuming resources and spending wildly on meaningless sex, dangerous activities and defrauding the general public.

You can travel with children that's a myth and there's plenty of travel blogs that say otherwise. It takes planning like anything else in life. If you constantly fly by the seat of your pants then having children isn't a good idea, again LOGIC dictates that, not the emotional view of "My Freedoms will be taken from me".

You can't just pick up and move being childless. You have obligations like jobs, business, parents, pets, bills, snail mail, etc, etc, etc.

Plus like most Americans, I seriously doubt you have a grand in your pocket to just take a taxi over to airport and leave.

Nothing wrong with fact based debates, this isn't one of them and its similar to Winston's rant about having children even if he has one already and isn't sole providers or caregiver.

In Summary -

You can in-fact travel with children, Tim Leffel who owns the http://www.cheapestdestinationsblog.com/ travels with his wife and daughter currently living in Mexico (for the 2nd time).

I don't have children because I have not found the correct circumstances to have children yet. There's all sorts of ways to incorrectly have children such as having unprotected sex with a woman you merely find attractive and nothing else.

I don't care if people have children or not, just don't give me a load of crap emotional based reasons why. Make a logical argument of not having children (which there aren't many) and I likely wouldn't have replied the way I did.


I never said you "can't" travel with children. Posting that link was pointless. The point I'm making is that It's not always that simple to just pack up and move, travel with children. Can it be done? Well obviously of course. You can travel with pets too but that doesn't mean it's always as convenient vs going alone. You still have to be responsible for who/what you bring with you. It also depends on the circumstance such as the child's age. Bringing a young baby vs an 8 year old on a few trips here and they are 2 completely different things. It's not always convenient either.

And don't tell me I have no logical reason as to not wanting children. Whether it be emotional or not, it is very well good enough of a reason. Not everybody wants to have such a long term commitment of having children, not to mention the huge financial responsibility involved. I personally prefer to spend my money on other things and I prefer to use my time for other things as well. That to me are logical enough reasons whether you agree or not.

And for the record, no, I don't plan on going to Mars :D
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Postby kai1275 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:07 pm

dreamer82 wrote:I think a lot of guys who have kids have them because a women fell for them and coaxed them into a relationship or marriage. A line these girls use is something like, "I want to have your children". All five or six of my closest friends in high school ended up with kids, two for each. I was kind of shocked that they did since I'm a born pessimist and had doubts about our economy since the '80s.

Luckily I'm a stereotypical tall, thin Caucasian "nice guy" and aloof so I never had many AW after me. I did have a couple opportunities with Koreans but I let them down. I think I secretly didn't want to have kids or even get married. It came down to money and I thought the chances were good I would get divorced because I'm a cheap bastard. Now that I'm in my forties and my sex drive is more manageable, I'm glad I didn't go through with the whole kids and marriage thing.

Besides being cheap and pessimistic, the biggest reason why I'm glad I didn't have kids is that we're a blight on the resources. Raising up little American suburbanites who have to be driven everywhere and will end up driving everywhere polluting the atmosphere is wrong I think. Our culture is also a joke. If I lived on a farm in Kazakhstan, then having a family would be practical.

www.vhemt.org


Anyone thinking the planet is overcrowded is terrible at mathematics. I guess you are one of the many "emotional" types DJ just posted about. I don't know why you need a website to promote mass suicide of the human species. That is already happening! Give it 20-30 years and governments will be begging people to have kids once their military/govt revenue and spending shrinks, especially China, Japan, most of Europe and the US especially.

Will they offer tax and money incentives to do this? If inflation gets too high, will anyone bother? Will there be too many gays and herbivores? Who knows....

All of you are fighting nature for a preference in multiple flavors of dysfunction. I won't hate on any of you for your choices though. The average man would never fight for something like this, considering how this world is hell bent on social engineering the destruction of family. Family is what allowed our species to rise to power, but perhaps they think we are better off without it. Only a man driven by faith or fervor would resist and try regardless of the circumstances.

/I bet if Zerg-like Aliens threatened Earth tomorrow, I bet you Obama and other presidents would quickly offer assistance to any humans willing to make children ASAP. :lol: :lol:
kai1275
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Postby Halwick » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:55 am

Pretty much agree with your sentiments on children and the burden they represent. Most children are "barbaric little savages" with no guarantee of becoming civilized when they turn 21.

Something to consider as a result of not having children:

While my mother was recovering from a stroke in a nursing home, I met and got acquainted with an elderly invalid man in his late 70s permanently residing there. I learned he never married, had no children and had few friends (he outlived them). All the money and investments that he saved is used to pay for the nursing home care and residence.

He expressed a regret not having children to look after him in his later years. He also expressed regrets that he has nobody to pass his experience and legacy to. Now he has nothing to look forward to and is waiting to die.....alone.
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