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Should Tipping Be Banned?

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Should Tipping Be Banned?

Postby Banano » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:56 pm

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Postby djfourmoney » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:59 pm

In some respects yes because employees of service sector jobs that are usually tipped based can just get high wages. But the restaurant union wants none of that, so its unlikely unless a progressive Government makes it law.
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Postby Halwick » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:30 pm

I may be a "Cheap Charlie", but if the service MEETS MY EXPECTATIONS and is performed as expected, then I shouldn't have to tip.

If an employee has to rely on tips, then its an indication that the person is grossly underpaid. That' not my problem.

For clarification purposes, "Meets expectations" means the waiter takes my order accurately, brings the food to my table and then clears it away after I'm done and presents me with an accurate bill.

I don't expect a charming smile and/or flattering conversation. And I dislike having to pay an additional 15% for expected service and tipping at buffet type restaurants where I have to serve myself.

On the other hand, if the service EXCEEDS my expectations (i'm hard to please), then I will "reward" accordingly. Likewise, if service fails to meet expectations, then I will not leave a tip anyway.
Last edited by Halwick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:37 pm

Why do Americans like to OVERTIP, especially when they're on vacation like in Vegas? I've never understood that. I certainly don't get any pleasure out of tipping or overtipping. Why would I?

They even overtip for normal services like bringing a drink. I heard that some people in Vegas will leave a $10 tip to a waitress just for bringing them a glass of water. Stupid.

I've never understood Americans in this area. In this area, I'm very unAmerican. Chinese prefer to be frugal and efficient with money and hate wasting it like that.

It's almost like an American thing to overtip and act proud of it. Very weird.

Why do people around me look ashamed when they see me leave small tips? Why should I leave larger tips if I don't feel like it?

What if I don't like to leave large tips? Does that make me a bad person? Isn't this a free country? Shouldn't I have a choice in the matter?
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Postby Winston » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:40 pm

Halwick wrote:I may be a "Cheap Charlie", but if the service MEETS MY EXPECTATIONS and is performed as expected, then I shouldn't have to tip.

If an employee has to rely on tips, then its an indication that the person is grossly underpaid. That' not my problem.

For clarification purposes, "Meets expectations" means the waiter takes my order accurately, brings the food to my table and then clears it away after I'm done and presents me with an accurate bill.

I don't expect a charming smile and/or flattering conversation. And I dislike having to pay an additional 15% for expected service and tipping at buffet type restaurants where I have to serve myself.

On the other hand, if the service EXCEEDS my expectations (i'm hard to please), then I will tip accordingly. Likewise, if service fails to meet expectations, then I will not leave a tip anyway.


You don't have to leave 15 percent tip at buffets. Usually people just leave a dollar per person for the service person to clean up your plates.

But yeah, tipping is kind of stupid, especially when it feels like an obligation.
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Postby Halwick » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:08 pm

Winston wrote:
Halwick wrote:I may be a "Cheap Charlie", but if the service MEETS MY EXPECTATIONS and is performed as expected, then I shouldn't have to tip.

If an employee has to rely on tips, then its an indication that the person is grossly underpaid. That' not my problem.

For clarification purposes, "Meets expectations" means the waiter takes my order accurately, brings the food to my table and then clears it away after I'm done and presents me with an accurate bill.

I don't expect a charming smile and/or flattering conversation. And I dislike having to pay an additional 15% for expected service and tipping at buffet type restaurants where I have to serve myself.

On the other hand, if the service EXCEEDS my expectations (i'm hard to please), then I will "reward" accordingly. Likewise, if service fails to meet expectations, then I will not leave a tip anyway.


You don't have to leave 15 percent tip at buffets. Usually people just leave a dollar per person for the service person to clean up your plates.

But yeah, tipping is kind of stupid, especially when it feels like an obligation.


In my previous post, I meant to say "reward" when service exceeds my expectations.

And I don't like having to tip barbers, taxi drivers, carwashers, etc. They're paid to perform that service.

But how do you know that the "tip" isn't built into the cost of the service anyway?

Yeah, I've had it explained to me how severely UNDERPAID waiters are and how they deserve the "tips". That's not my problem. By the way, in California, the minimum wage has just been raised to $10.00/hr.

Has anybody encountered sales clerks, government employees, secretaries, policemen, firemen, doctors, lawyers, plumbers, electricians, handyman, painters, etc. who EXPECT to be tipped for services rendered?
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Postby Banano » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:22 am

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Postby momopi » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:41 am

...in France the service fee (service compris) is often included in the bill, there is no need to give additional tips, but American tourists tend to add tips anyway.

Consider, people who are on vacation mode tend to be more generous with tipping, but they're only visiting and won't be a regular. When the person goes to his local restaurant, where he is a regular, he becomes more stingy because he is not on vacation mode.

o.O?

Logically, if you're a regular at a local cafe or restaurant, you should probably be more generous there with tips for good service, instead of being overly generous on vacation where you don't dine on regular basis.
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Postby Ghost » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:52 am

Just stop tipping and the practice could be abolished quickly. It is a crazy idea. Restaurants and other service industries should just pay an actual wage.

On that note, another crazy practice is that taxes should be included in the price of the item. I hate in America when you buy something, the tax is added later. Just show the actual price of the item for crying out loud.
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Postby Halwick » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:00 am

Ghost wrote:Just stop tipping and the practice could be abolished quickly. It is a crazy idea. Restaurants and other service industries should just pay an actual wage.

On that note, another crazy practice is that taxes should be included in the price of the item. I hate in America when you buy something, the tax is added later. Just show the actual price of the item for crying out loud.


Speaking of taxes, how is VAT handled in Europe? When I see an item for 100 euros, does the price include the VAT?
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Postby zboy1 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:09 am

Halwick wrote:
Ghost wrote:Just stop tipping and the practice could be abolished quickly. It is a crazy idea. Restaurants and other service industries should just pay an actual wage.

On that note, another crazy practice is that taxes should be included in the price of the item. I hate in America when you buy something, the tax is added later. Just show the actual price of the item for crying out loud.


Speaking of taxes, how is VAT handled in Europe? When I see an item for 100 euros, does the price include the VAT?


Yes. Or at least that's how it was in the U.K. when I was there nearly a decade ago...

BTW, VAT taxes in Europe are ridiculously high and that's why consumer goods are so expensive compared to the States. An average video game would sell for 60 bucks in the States, would sell for around 85 to 90 dollars in Europe. Food is expensive as well...
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Postby deasil875 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:23 pm

I've always been a cheap ass when it comes to tipping, because I cannot stand the phony bullshit and disingenuous crap I have to deal with from a female waitress so they can try and score a better tip from me. And coming around every 5 minutes asking if everything is to my liking...SHUT THE f**k UP and let me enjoy my meal in peace. If there is a problem I would have let you know by the first bite if something was not right in the dish.

But to answer the OP question, yes, tipping should be banned, or implement what they do in Italy -- include a fixed gratuity in the bill.
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Postby HouseMD » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:51 pm

I usually tip well, mostly because the difference between leaving 5 bucks versus 10 on a 50 dollar meal doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot to me, but a good tip can make a server's day. I like making random people happy, it's like the opposite of trolling, and feels pretty damn good. Plus I'm a big believer in karma, so I always do unto others as I would have done unto me.

If it's bad service, I obviously will not do this, but generally I get good service because the servers know me from previous visits and know I tip well. That being said, I wish servers were just paid a decent wage and the tip was just factored in to the price of my meal. It's sort of a bullshit practice that doesn't benefit consumers or servers, but rather only aids the owner of the establishment.
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Postby tre » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:52 pm

HouseMD wrote:I usually tip well, mostly because the difference between leaving 5 bucks versus 10 on a 50 dollar meal doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot to me, but a good tip can make a server's day. I like making random people happy, it's like the opposite of trolling, and feels pretty damn good. Plus I'm a big believer in karma, so I always do unto others as I would have done unto me.

If it's bad service, I obviously will not do this, but generally I get good service because the servers know me from previous visits and know I tip well. That being said, I wish servers were just paid a decent wage and the tip was just factored in to the price of my meal. It's sort of a bullshit practice that doesn't benefit consumers or servers, but rather only aids the owner of the establishment.


^^^Perfectly stated. Being a server or a bartender is an extremely annoying job. I worked as a bartender for 8 years in Las Vegas. I have health problems now due to the intense stress over many years. The people that tip well are locals, from California, from Hawaii, New York, etc. Australians would often tip well too. Shitty tippers are mostly from the UK, and some from France, etc. We knew what they looked like when they came in...even before they opened their mouths. The hair would bristle on the back of my neck as well as I KNEW I was getting stiffed no matter what. Asians are about 50/50 which is MUCH better than those in the UK. Asians don't tip in their home countries, but they RESEARCH what is acceptable in the country they are going to. This should be done, regardless what country one is going to. Bartenders in Las Vegas are often on a system of "tip compliance". That means the IRS charges them tax on what they SHOULD make on their shift and their location. So basically, they'd get taxed on 3-6 TIMES the amount of their actual income if they weren't tipped. Non-tippers f**k them over...big time. So what happens to non-tippers is that they usually end up with HALF the alcohol in their drink when they come back for additional drinks. If it's busy, they will also be ignored. In a nightclub, they'd be ignored ALL NIGHT as we are SWAMPED in there. Bartenders and servers remember non-tippers. If you don't tip, you'd best never go to the same place twice. Big tippers are also remembered and one SHOULD go to the same server or bartender as you'll likely get "hooked up" in one way or the other. You will also be given priority when hundreds are waiting for drinks at a busy nightclub. I'd hate to think what food servers might do to your food if you consistently don't tip. I ALWAYS tip at least 15% for regular service...20% most of the time. I tip 10% if I'm at a buffet where they bring me drinks and clean my table. I'm very nice and patient with them all as I have done their shitty jobs before.

As a bartender going to another bartender (or server) in Las Vegas, I would pay at least 20% for average service and likely much more if they "hook me up". For instance, I would often get comped drinks (such as a triple shot of Hangar Mandarin Vodka and a Red Bull). That would cost ALOT in Vegas....approximately $53. Since it was comped, I'd throw him a $20 as a tip. Every time I come in, I get $53 worth in drinks for $20. He knows what I want and he knows what he'll get out of it. If you take care of your bartender or server, they'll take care of you. If you don't, you'll get the same treatment. This isn't unique to USA either. My friend said that you don't tip in Thailand. I disagreed with him that this was always the case. We went to a popular nightclub in Thailand and he ordered drinks....he didn't tip. We went back for a 2nd round and the drinks were WEAK....barely any alcohol in them. I then went to order drinks and tipped. The first round was good. I went back and they remembered me. The next round was STRONG....very strong.

Like it or not, tipping will never go away in the USA. It was set up by greedy companies so long ago that its too deeply engrained in this society. Bartenders and servers should be paid $25+ per hour for what they put up with. Dealing with rude, impatient, unappreciative people all day, day after day is a nightmare. If employers were to pay the higher wages, then they'd raise the prices of food and beverage to compensate (like in the UK and other countries).

That said, the lack of tipping in MOST Asian countries makes food cheaper. Food stalls are often family run so they get to keep what you pay them (unlike a server in the USA). Service is not as good in Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. as in the USA, but it's a good tradeoff. I'd still always tip at a bar though...it always works out better that way for them AND me.
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Postby Moretorque » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:08 pm

If you are a regular you get treated much better if you tip well, no comparison.
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