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College degrees are overrated!!!

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Postby Cornfed » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:54 am

tre wrote:The challenge is getting a job ABROAD and then getting the associated workers pass from that government. Most countries want to see a Bachelors Degree of some sort (at VERY least) and that is becoming more and more common. Why hire you and pay you more when they have citizens in their country that are more qualified than you and who will work for less?

I know of guys who work in Papua New Guinea teaching local workers to operate construction machinery. In my last security job, my fellow night watchman was an old guy whose son had worked his way up in the security industry and was working in the Persian Gulf teaching people to defend themselves from pirates or some such. My fellow English teacher at a school in China was a metal working guy trained by the military who acted as a consultant for Chinese factories (although he might have had a degree, but I don't think so). So there are various non-degreed positions where Westerners can earn a living overseas. These are of course diminishing as locals are trained to a Western standard, but then the degreed jobs are diminishing as well.
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Postby Teal Lantern » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:54 am

Degree mills are going to be one of the next bubbles to burst.
This is already happening where I live.

For most men, your best bet is to not even walk into this trap.
Get the minimum certs required for your field, at the least cost accredited school you can get it from.
More future jobs will be pushing a hammer or broom or tractor, rather than a pencil.

Cupcake can always join "seeking arrangement" or marry some idiot to be put on the hook for her school loans.
If that idiot is you, then, payments will be part of your marriage, frivorce settlement, and even taken out of your social security checks, if need be.
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Postby SilverEnergy » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:42 pm

Teal Lantern wrote:Degree mills are going to be one of the next bubbles to burst.
This is already happening where I live.

For most men, your best bet is to not even walk into this trap.
Get the minimum certs required for your field, at the least cost accredited school you can get it from.
More future jobs will be pushing a hammer or broom or tractor, rather than a pencil.

Cupcake can always join "seeking arrangement" or marry some idiot to be put on the hook for her school loans.
If that idiot is you, then, payments will be part of your marriage, frivorce settlement, and even taken out of your social security checks, if need be.


Yep, certifications in computer related fields is always a good thing.
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:25 pm

Vocational I.T. is the real deal. Get that, technical diplomas, and I.T.-related certs and you can land a job making starting @ 60 stacks (before tax of course) per annum.

Jump on and stay on the bandwagon if and before H1B declares open season on US citizenship techies applying for job opportunities in IT. :shock:
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
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Postby celery2010 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:51 pm

Kids need to be taught how to network, brainstorm ideas and make money..

If you know what you want to do or have contacts and it seems like a good idea, i'd go for that...

If it doesn't work out, you can always go back to a community college and take classes, or if you're unsure, just
take a few classes at night.

The main benefit of college is that it offers an easy way to meet girls, possibly do some networking, and offers some possibly
great experiences socially.

I'd definitely get a degree that had some sort of use to it-- you can always attend a community college and live at home for 2 years, or attend a
party, low achieving school with a higher ratio of girls...

Going to a top school has practically no value, unless you really grew up poor and exposure to upper middle class students would have a benefical effect on you.

Personally, i'd hack away at a degree by taking a class or 2 every semester while working or having fun-- not to mention you can probably also get college credit abroad (now that would be a lot more fun)

But no real purpose in going into lots of debt, except perhaps a top notch engineering or comp sci degree.
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Postby Anti-American » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:53 pm

Would a trade like bicycle mechanic be worth pursuing?
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Postby Cornfed » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:12 am

celery2010 wrote:Kids need to be taught how to network, brainstorm ideas and make money.

Like third-world/ghetto hustlers do, you mean? Yeah, maybe it has come to that.
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Postby Cornfed » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:15 am

celery2010 wrote:But no real purpose in going into lots of debt, except perhaps a top notch engineering or comp sci degree.

There are plenty of unemployed engineers and the IT industry is a joke. OK, it does still employ a bunch of people, but not necessarily because they are any good at anything, as posts on this forum will attest to.
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Postby tre » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:02 am

I'm not seeing any real solutions for those starting over that want to move abroad. If you have no skills, qualifications and/or education you are not likely to get a good position abroad. It almost seems like there are some that recommend good old hard manual labor over qualifying yourself for anything lucrative. ANYONE can do manual labor jobs and young, fit guys are going to be able to outwork any old man. I have done plenty of hard manual labor as a young man and it gave me nothing but back problems. It cost me more than I ever made from it. I would never advise anyone to make $$ with their hands, but with their minds. They will live longer and make more $$.

If you are young, go into something like Engineering. Those that are unemployed rushed through school and didn't take Internships seriously...which is more important than the school. If you are older, look for something that allows you to work for yourself as you could be bound to be unemployed if you rely on being hired in a new position after 40 years old. I have done jobs from construction to bartending, but since I have no degree, special skills or qualifications, I have to start over. I can't live on $500 per month (which affords you a pretty shitty existence anywhere on earth) as I have debt that exceeds that by 4 times each month. It's not hard to make $$ here in the USA, but it's VERY hard to make decent $$ abroad...impossible if you aren't very strategic about it. If you were military or law enforcement in the USA, you MIGHT be able to get a job in security abroad. If you are a mixed martial artist, you could get a job teaching it abroad. However, if you don't have those "qualifications" you are out of luck. If you are not a young man, you aren't likely to be able to qualify yourself for those positions either. I could become an electrician and expert at HVAC within a year for FREE as my brothers would hire and teach me. However, I can't take this skill abroad as you will see that governments do not allow those positions to be filled by foreigners.

Winston and many others did things that do not require a degree, but they DO require some skills that many do not have. It also takes a lot of time and a correct strategy to not end up losing more than you make. It is about networking, brainstorming and coming up with many ideas to make $$.

Although these days, one should do BOTH with the economy the way it is, I am of the opinion that working smart is much better than working hard, in general.
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:15 am

Cornfed wrote:
celery2010 wrote:But no real purpose in going into lots of debt, except perhaps a top notch engineering or comp sci degree.

There are plenty of unemployed engineers and the IT industry is a joke. OK, it does still employ a bunch of people, but not necessarily because they are any good at anything, as posts on this forum will attest to.


There are ways around that. There are jobs in IT, but people are not studying the right s.hit to remain relevant.
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Postby Cornfed » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:28 am

tre wrote:If you are young, go into something like Engineering. Those that are unemployed rushed through school and didn't take Internships seriously...which is more important than the school.

No, you should try and get it through your head that Western whorporate society is not a meritocracy and there are plenty of useful people who are unemployed. In fact, it is precisely the most productive people that automation and outsourcing makes obsolete. Useless parasites generally get to keep their pretended jobs. Whole industries can be wiped out overnight in this economy, leaving those with degrees specializing in those industries high and dry. As for internships, do you not realize that there are skilled young men interning for years just to have something to put on their resumes? Then when they ask for a paid position the companies of course tell them to get lost and make way for other suckers who will work for free.

In reality, the only way to be skilled in a particular job is to do that job for some number of years. No amount of "education" can substitute for that. The problem is getting into the industry in the first place. Since no training can now guarantee you a position, the idea is to minimize your sunk costs by getting into industries you can get into with minimal training and then working your way up. You want industries where you can develop skills on the job. Of course, even that will not guarantee you will not have to start again at 40. Nothing will in today's world.
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Postby tre » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:26 am

Cornfed wrote:No, you should try and get it through your head that Western whorporate society is not a meritocracy and there are plenty of useful people who are unemployed. In fact, it is precisely the most productive people that automation and outsourcing makes obsolete. Useless parasites generally get to keep their pretended jobs.


That isn't going to change though...production will continue to be more and more automated and outsourced. The only way to have a CHANCE at making $$ in the future is through strategy and unfortunately, some guesswork. No one knows exactly what the world will look like in 4-5 years from now. It would be nice to be an idealist and prosper, but unfortunately one must be a realist in order to make $$ that can be considered anywhere close to a career. We can complain about how messed up things are or we can just adjust and admit that things are the way they are now and aren't likely to change in that regard.

Cornfed wrote:Whole industries can be wiped out overnight in this economy, leaving those with degrees specializing in those industries high and dry. As for internships, do you not realize that there are skilled young men interning for years just to have something to put on their resumes? Then when they ask for a paid position the companies of course tell them to get lost and make way for other suckers who will work for free.


This may be true in SOME cases, but not nearly all of them. The greater percentage have gotten jobs as the unemployment rate for Engineers is lower than most positions. I'm willing to bet that a good portion of those that ARE unemployed are tied down to the USA with house and family they don't want to leave. I am not one of those people. If I get qualifications, I WILL used them and make $$ with them...no matter what it takes. I know people that won't leave the states because they don't want to leave their dogs....this is the stupidity of America. Also, Engineer Interns in the USA average about $15/hour out west, depending on location. However, you need about a 3.5 GPA in order to get that Internship...no easy task in Engineering school (one of the most difficult).

Cornfed wrote:In reality, the only way to be skilled in a particular job is to do that job for some number of years. No amount of "education" can substitute for that. The problem is getting into the industry in the first place.


Absolutely no argument there. Nothing is easy or guaranteed...especially in todays world.

Cornfed wrote:Since no training can now guarantee you a position, the idea is to minimize your sunk costs by getting into industries you can get into with minimal training and then working your way up. You want industries where you can develop skills on the job. Of course, even that will not guarantee you will not have to start again at 40. Nothing will in today's world.


This is very rarely an option in today's world. This is old school and completely in the past. Gone are the days of working for a company, getting promoted over and over and finally retiring from that company. If the company doesn't give you what you want after working your ass off for them, you look for something better elsewhere. You can't be loyal to a company anymore, but go where the money is. It's been this way for awhile now actually. Companies only care about what you can do for them, not the other way around. They aren't going to promote you when they can hire someone above you and keep you in the spot you are good at already. This is what pisses you (and many others) off, but that isn't going to change. It's not like you are going to have a pension or any sort of retirement from any company in the future anyway. That's all going away in the future. Also, work ethic in the USA is lousy. I've been promoted over others all the time simply due to my work ethic. However, this will only take you so far (and only IF they LIKE YOU)....and even more rarely, abroad. I used to be very vocally against going to college....UNTIL I decided I wanted to go abroad. It's a rude awakening when you realize that other countries put a high value on that damn piece of paper degree.

If I find a legit way to get abroad without a degree, special skill, etc. AND get paid a decent wage....I'll let you know. Maybe someone here has already done it, but I wouldn't blame them if they don't reveal it as it would be a RARE opportunity that won't always be there. Everyone else has qualifications/special skills/education or are getting paid shit...
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Postby Jvargasbronx » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:55 pm

That's what I noticing in the US that every job containing college experience is extremely common and it gets harder for a person like myself who never attended college and obtained a high school diploma and I wanted to be a A+ Technician with PC Repair. But I'm not sure if its guarantee, I just want a career without college experience. Here's my questions.
1. what are high paying careers without college experience?
2. is having a career as an A+ Technician with PC Repair guarantees you a career right away?
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Postby aozora13 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:53 pm

Jvargasbronx wrote:That's what I noticing in the US that every job containing college experience is extremely common and it gets harder for a person like myself who never attended college and obtained a high school diploma and I wanted to be a A+ Technician with PC Repair. But I'm not sure if its guarantee, I just want a career without college experience. Here's my questions.
1. what are high paying careers without college experience?
2. is having a career as an A+ Technician with PC Repair guarantees you a career right away?


Jvarg,

1. There are some careers that pay well without a college degree but you will usually have to learn a trade. This is most likely an electrician, plumber, welder (which is popular in other English speaking countries like in Australia/Canada)

2. IT field is another monster in itself. There are members (including myself) who are in the IT field. I started out with an IT degree and was able to start out at help desk years ago. It is not good but you have to start somewhere. I then was able to get my A+/Network+/Security + CE and then looked into desktkop support/pc repair. I am currently doing this but this job on average even in NY is probably $37k-$55k in the capital area it is more but usually you need experience and usually the college degree helps in taking away the years of experience that you need.

A+ Tech + PC Repair experience does help in looking for a career but I feel that the Desktop Support tech path is really saturated most often in Metro areas (DC, Boston, Philadelphia, NYC). You can get work but usually companies want more experience before they pay $24/hour at least.

Another career (in IT) you can try is to become a developer. It is not an easy field but the pay off is good especially if you go into SharePoint and/or cloud computing (storage) which is becoming more important in the future.

I am sure other people can help you.

Lastly, have you looked on Dice for work.
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Postby momopi » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:33 pm

Jvargasbronx wrote:That's what I noticing in the US that every job containing college experience is extremely common and it gets harder for a person like myself who never attended college and obtained a high school diploma and I wanted to be a A+ Technician with PC Repair. But I'm not sure if its guarantee, I just want a career without college experience. Here's my questions.
1. what are high paying careers without college experience?
2. is having a career as an A+ Technician with PC Repair guarantees you a career right away?


First, what is your goal and how does the A+ cert in PC Repair fit in reaching this goal?

Say if your goal is to go abroad. PC hardware repair is not a high value portable skill. Your chance or opportunity in making a living with it overseas is questionable, versus if you did industrial/manufacturing robotic repair (field service tech), the company would pay you to fly to customer sites overseas.

If you want to go overseas and do freelance type work, it's much harder to find hardware support type gigs on sites such as oDesk, elance, etc. It's easier to find remote software support gigs.

Or, if your goal is to make a lot of money, save and invest wisely before moving abroad, then the A+ cert is not going to make you a lot of money. PC/hardware support positions also lack upward mobility. Other positions such as NOC (network operations) would pay better.

At minimum, I'd suggest getting an AA degree at your local community college, just so that you can tick off the "college degree" job requirement check box. It's not always easy to evaluate the cost-benefit of college degree vs job experience, but I'll say that it's better to have both than just one. Personally, I didn't attend college "full time", I was always working and attending college part-time.
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