True forced loneliness vs. PUA: Which is more valid?

[Ghost]

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[newlifeinphilippines]

he is quite delusional. which is why he is confused about religion also. Someday reality will hit him, if not now certainly in the afterlife.

[S_Parc]

No one is forced into loneliness unless he's incarcerated. Loneliness is a choice. So is "going your own way". I go my own way too... only my own way includes and wife and family, friends and happiness. PUA is a scam, and those TFL (Truly Fat Losers) are the group that most often falls victim to their BS scams. Both suck balls and both are uninteresting to me, or any other healthy male who seeks to truly improve himself and enjoy life on a less shallow and superficial level.

Do you even believe the bullshit you write? The more I read from you, the more it seems like either trolling or a guy having no understanding of what it means to be a man who isn't a prettyboy like himself.

Millions of good men suffer from incel (which includes loneliness clearly) and you just hand-wave it and say it's a choice? Bullshit.

My issue with Marcos is that he's created a religion out of his meanderings in life. From my p.o.v, if a man is genuinely happy and content with his committed relationship (and the fact that he's settled down), he should be a lot more serene in his attitudes and approach to life. Instead, he's evangelizing that he's found some salvation to prior *bad boy* issues and whatever else happened to him in Europe and is now, the Paul of Taurus for this board.

Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. For one, unlike him, I'd done everything right in life. I was actually a *good boy*, as well as a pretty one, though Mel prefers the word, handsome. My only mistake in life was being born into a dysfunctional family. IMHO, if Marcos had my psycho dad, he'd either be in jail or have committed suicide. It begs the question, if you're from a good family, what made you a bad boy? Isn't that then, your own manifestation? Your own shortcomings? I believe that he's not that strong on the inside, as he wants to believe. Today, a lot of those negative experiences are water under the bridge for me and I'm happy with my current GF situation and don't feel the need to evangelize, aside from providing some helpful cues .. from my other post, I'm a lot less concerned about setting ppl's agenda aside from standing on one's two feet, proper health, etc. You know, the commonsense things in life. I can already see that a lot of marriages, including international ones, have a lot of misunderstandings and failed expectations. For a number of guys, they may not be ready or interested in the challenge. If so, then why paint a target and spend one's life taking archery lessons?

Still, I'd kept my options open and did well in the end. I'm content with my life and ironically (esp by HA standards), in the end, will probably be with an American woman as a lifelong partner. Marcos, on the other hand, reminds me of those guys on the 'Mutiny on the Bounty' movies, who'd felt it was their destiny to control and impregnate a bunch of impressionable Polynesian women and exert their colonial (or white) power over them. Whether or not it's true, even if it's partially subconscious, if that's what they want, go for it. Just don't make it everyone else's plan in life.

[MarcosZeitola]

Do you even believe the bullshit you write? The more I read from you, the more it seems like either trolling or a guy having no understanding of what it means to be a man who isn't a prettyboy like himself.

I have seen many guys who are a lot less attractive then me with women, so it's hardly a failure to understand on my behalf. They usually have other redeeming qualities... they are funny, socially skilled, able to hold a conversation well. They are interesting, intelligent. Or rich. Some have a great sense of style, carry themselves a certain way. If you have no looks, no style, no swagger, no sense of humor and no social skills, I believe it when you say you cannot get laid. But a lot of that is your own problem, because many of the skills you need to get p***y can be acquired. Not acquiring them is a CHOICE, therefore these guys' dry spells are also a choice in my mind.

Millions of good men suffer from incel (which includes loneliness clearly) and you just hand-wave it and say it's a choice? Bullshit.

If they would socialize enough, have enough friends and acquaintances, sooner or later their "incel" is BOUND to dissapear. The loneliness is often self-imposed; all of the West is corrupt, modern society sucks, we know the drill. So what do we do when we live in the West still? Some of us go outside still. Others hide inside until they are able to leave. Hiding yourself away from the world is a choice. Some people may have legitimate issues with social anxiety, but once more: they have the CHOICE to seek treatment.

There are scenarios in which I can see a man genuinely being incel, I agree. But in many, many cases, they are just finding excuses for their lack of activity. It is their laziness of blaming everything on third parties, on some bullshit condition or what have you, that annoys me to no end. Too many men use their 'incel' as a crutch: they have decided for themselves that they have lost, and have given up. They're no longer trying because they suffer from terminal incel so why try? It's defeatist and weak to the core, and weakness and defeatism annoy me.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. But when you get out of the kitchen, don't complain when you see a braver man who stayed walking out with a steak and waving it in your face. If you are a lesser cook, cooking skills can be improved. You may just have to stay in and practice a little longer.

[MarcosZeitola]

My issue with Marcos is that he's created a religion out of his meanderings in life. From my p.o.v, if a man is genuinely happy and content with his committed relationship (and the fact that he's settled down), he should be a lot more serene in his attitudes and approach to life. Instead, he's evangelizing that he's found some salvation to prior *bad boy* issues and whatever else happened to him in Europe and is now, the Paul of Taurus for this board.

I was never really a "bad boy", although some of my life's choices me be interpreted as such. I have never been in direct contact with the law, for example, and I have never been genuibely abusive towards others.

Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. For one, unlike him, I'd done everything right in life. I was actually a *good boy*, as well as a pretty one, though Mel prefers the word, handsome. My only mistake in life was being born into a dysfunctional family. IMHO, if Marcos had my psycho dad, he'd either be in jail or have committed suicide. It begs the question, if you're from a good family, what made you a bad boy? Isn't that then, your own manifestation? Your own shortcomings? I believe that he's not that strong on the inside, as he wants to believe.

I am living a very common and simple life, in a strictly monogamous relationship with my wife. Whatever my prior life's choices have been, I am now a lot more conservative in many ways. I was born into a good family, that's right. But I was also born in a country and in a generation where underage drinking was the norm and promiscuity widespread. This left an impression on me. I have been a member of a society that is, on many levels, depraved. And fun as it may be to enjoy the depravity for a few years, to endulge in the debauchery, I grew wary of of it. Going out is expensive, club music horribly bad for the ears, drinks pricey and the women far from loyal and far too easy... I know how easy it is to get a woman in my country, from experience. How could I get serious with one and not worry about what she does the minute I turn my back? If she's easy for me, she may be easy for others. I've been born in a good family, a decent family, but my tragedy is this family lived in a society that is also in decay. All I did was partake in what was, and is, the norm.

Still, I'd kept my options open and did well in the end. I'm content with my life and ironically (esp by HA standards), in the end, will probably be with an American woman as a lifelong partner.

And for that, I commend you and respect you. I am genuinely happy for your happiness in life and admire the unorthodox way in which you have found it. You are the sole dissenter on a forum of guys who found or wish to find abroad what you found at home... for you happiness was right around the corner.

Marcos, on the other hand, reminds me of those guys on the 'Mutiny on the Bounty' movies, who'd felt it was their destiny to control and impregnate a bunch of impressionable Polynesian women and exert their colonial (or white) power over them. Whether or not it's true, even if it's partially subconscious, if that's what they want, go for it. Just don't make it everyone else's plan in life.

I am a bit of a Mutiny on the Bounty type of guy, sure. I am adventurous by nature, and I have always dreamed of exotic faraway places and broadening my horizon. This has nothing to do with colonial or white power, as I am not racist in the slightest. Maybe there is a subconcious part of it, I agree. But as I am a romantic guy at heart and believe growing old together to be the greatest form of true love, I would not go about "impregnating a bunch of women". Just one, many times, to set a good example for our children and give them a stable home base.

My plan in life, obviously, isn't everyone else's. But there are some universal things almost all men and women seem to universally long for... love, stability, friendship, understanding. A place to call home. We see this is the ideal situation for a simple reason: it is the ideal situation for the majority of people. And even in today's ever changing and globalizing world, where peace and happiness are hard to come by, we still want it. We still crave the same things our ancestors craved, but we face far tougher competition in doing so.

[Jester]

.....you just hand-wave it and say it's a choice? Bullshit.

In general, guys who wave their hands and condemn you with "it's by choice", are assholes.

[gibraltar]

For longevity, I would choose TFL. You may not get laid but you can still enjoy your life for a long time.

For quick sex but a shorter life, then choose PUA. You may get laid but you also open yourself up to lots of dangerous situations including angry ex-boyfriends, STDs, false rape charges, etc.

So it just depends on your outlook on life and what matters most. Most men choose PUA because it's a reaction to the widespead hypergamy and feminist government laws.

If they lived overseas, they may respond differently and just be themselves because that still works in 95% of non-anglo countries.

In regards to PUA, there are a lot of men sitting in prisons right now because they got involved with the wrong woman. Choose wisely.

[drronnie]

I think TFL is a growing phenomenon because of mass media telling women they can have it all. When a land whale thinks she can get Brad Pitt then it is over for average looking men. In the past men were able to find a looksmatched partner but it has become impossible nowadays.

Facebook and Tinder are making it even more harder because looks only matter.

[jamesbond]

I think TFL is a growing phenomenon because of mass media telling women they can have it all. When a land whale thinks she can get Brad Pitt then it is over for average looking men. In the past men were able to find a looksmatched partner but it has become impossible nowadays.

Facebook and Tinder are making it even more harder because looks only matter.

It's funny, I see women who are morbidly obese dating guys who are in shape. I also see ugly women dating good looking guys.

When land whales can get guys who are good looking and in shape, you know you need to look overseas in order to meet women.

[drronnie]

I think TFL is a growing phenomenon because of mass media telling women they can have it all. When a land whale thinks she can get Brad Pitt then it is over for average looking men. In the past men were able to find a looksmatched partner but it has become impossible nowadays.

Facebook and Tinder are making it even more harder because looks only matter.

It's funny, I see women who are morbidly obese dating guys who are in shape. I also see ugly women dating good looking guys.

When land whales can get guys who are good looking and in shape, you know you need to look overseas in order to meet women.

Now it has come to the point that if an average and athletic guy wants to date a slim healthy woman he is considered a misogynist and shallow however this standard is not held for fat women

[Eric]

The thing about PUA is that why are we even having to 'do something unnatural' in the first place? As many have said. This is where we've come?
Every man knows and feels this and does it himself, anyway. You kind of have to, here. Unfortunately, the more you act, the more you lose your genuine self.
Why are women not interested in guys, here?

in other places they'd be open and flirtatious, being submissive etc and not having any problem showing you that they wanted you. Since women are at war with themselves - we have to drag it out of them, and pull their part of the interaction. A lot of guys just don't bother.
I'm not around a lot of women, not at my work, nor at school or anywhere. I'm in brief interactions when I go out to the grocery store, etc., or when driving or walking, but most women are insecure and give that ice stare, or are afraid to show vulnerability ( and just see you and then walk on by). I can't tell you the number of interactions I've had with women who've looked at me, were attracted - then had that conflict thing happen, and they just veto it and scurry away somewhere. They ruin it! 9/10 the woman terminates the chance...if she'd just stick around for a millisecond. It would give me a chance to actually talk to her. Women are SO INSECURE, they can't even bear THIS.
This is the problem. This is how you have to literally jump on that millisecond to talk to her or something - allow her to see you're non threatening with a smile.
Women make this shit so goddam hard. They are so entitled, to think the man will chase her...or she just plays this dysfunctional damsel and, somehow expects you to come and fix her. Men don't want to fix a woman. We want to be with a woman! ... I watched "Holiday" with Jude Law and Cameron Diaz (don't ask)..... Diaz's character annoyed the shit out of me to no end, but Law had to literally spend the whole movie rehabbing her and helping her come out of her f***ed up feminist tendencies. That's what we have to do.
Or what do I know. PUA?
PUA is just getting poon, however you can. .. no need to make a science out of it.

Getting girls should be easy, easy as nature - it should just, happen. It's nature. But, for various reasons it's obviously not. Half the time the women irritate me because they have some traits. Half the time I'm feeling weird.
Most of the time I feel just like I'm worthless or, don't have enough to impress them or for what they'd want. I don't know, it's not true. That fear is definitely real and it keeps me alone a lot. I don't even just try. Because I feel inadequate....inside.
In other countries it wouldn't matter - they'd just talk to you if they liked you. That's how it should be. I guess I should tell myself it shouldn't matter, that I'm making it worse in my head - I probably am, but women are picky and even if hey just want to hook up they want to make sure you have everything.
I hate materialism. You just gotta not have this matter, I guarantee you'll get some.

I have not had sex for months. Not real sex. ... I go to Asia in less than a month.
I don't know what I'm doing. I hope this is the right choice. I don't like thinking about it, too hard. Whatever choice you make, is the right choice.

[GoingAwol]

tfl/incel is a legitimate problem in America (I don't know enough about other countries to say if it is a problem there or not). I think it all boils down to demographics... There aren't enough single women to partner up with the amount of single men there are in America. I see lots of single men of all types (Rich/poor, handsome/ugly) but I rarely see single women. I just completed an accelerated public speaking class at my college and I was the only guy in the class. In this class, there were 8 women and me. Furthermore, 6 out of these 8 women were cute and I probably would have dated them if given the chance. So, you may think that since I was the only guy in a class where the majority of the girls were cute the odds were in my favor. If you think that, you are 100% wrong. All the women in that class had boyfriends or were married, even the two landwhales were spoken for. This is what I encounter everywhere I go. There is a surplus of desperate single men and a severe shortage of single women. It's difficult enough to get a low quality unattractive women, and it's infinitely more difficult to find an attractive woman. Guys like Marcos can talk about improving your social circles and game all they want, but those things wont change the fact that the odds are against American men in the dating scene. A guy could be fit, handsome, a good dresser, extroverted, educated, financially stable and still struggle and be forced to settle for lower quality women.

[GoingAwol]

The thing about PUA is that why are we even having to 'do something unnatural' in the first place? As many have said. This is where we've come?
Every man knows and feels this and does it himself, anyway. You kind of have to, here. Unfortunately, the more you act, the more you lose your genuine self.
Why are women not interested in guys, here?

in other places they'd be open and flirtatious, being submissive etc and not having any problem showing you that they wanted you. Since women are at war with themselves - we have to drag it out of them, and pull their part of the interaction. A lot of guys just don't bother.
I'm not around a lot of women, not at my work, nor at school or anywhere. I'm in brief interactions when I go out to the grocery store, etc., or when driving or walking, but most women are insecure and give that ice stare, or are afraid to show vulnerability ( and just see you and then walk on by). I can't tell you the number of interactions I've had with women who've looked at me, were attracted - then had that conflict thing happen, and they just veto it and scurry away somewhere. They ruin it! 9/10 the woman terminates the chance...if she'd just stick around for a millisecond. It would give me a chance to actually talk to her. Women are SO INSECURE, they can't even bear THIS.
This is the problem. This is how you have to literally jump on that millisecond to talk to her or something - allow her to see you're non threatening with a smile.
Women make this shit so goddam hard. They are so entitled, to think the man will chase her...or she just plays this dysfunctional damsel and, somehow expects you to come and fix her. Men don't want to fix a woman. We want to be with a woman! ... I watched "Holiday" with Jude Law and Cameron Diaz (don't ask)..... Diaz's character annoyed the shit out of me to no end, but Law had to literally spend the whole movie rehabbing her and helping her come out of her f***ed up feminist tendencies. That's what we have to do.
Or what do I know. PUA?
PUA is just getting poon, however you can. .. no need to make a science out of it.

Getting girls should be easy, easy as nature - it should just, happen. It's nature. But, for various reasons it's obviously not. Half the time the women irritate me because they have some traits. Half the time I'm feeling weird.
Most of the time I feel just like I'm worthless or, don't have enough to impress them or for what they'd want. I don't know, it's not true. That fear is definitely real and it keeps me alone a lot. I don't even just try. Because I feel inadequate....inside.
In other countries it wouldn't matter - they'd just talk to you if they liked you. That's how it should be. I guess I should tell myself it shouldn't matter, that I'm making it worse in my head - I probably am, but women are picky and even if hey just want to hook up they want to make sure you have everything.
I hate materialism. You just gotta not have this matter, I guarantee you'll get some.

I have not had sex for months. Not real sex. ... I go to Asia in less than a month.
I don't know what I'm doing. I hope this is the right choice. I don't like thinking about it, too hard. Whatever choice you make, is the right choice.

Another problem with American women, and society at large, is how they have the expectation that men should be confident without accepting any responsibility to facilitate that confidence in men. Women here are stuck-up, hateful, and suspicious of men. How is a man supposed to be anything but insecure around women like this? The only guys that could be confident when dealing with these women are sociopaths. Yes, a guy has to have the confidence to approach, but women also have to be approachable. Most American women are anything but approachable. As a shy guy, I can honestly say that I do not have trouble approaching women who exude sweet feminine energy. The problem is I rarely meet such women, and when I do, they are already taken.

[jamesbond]

tfl/incel is a legitimate problem in America (I don't know enough about other countries to say if it is a problem there or not). I think it all boils down to demographics... There aren't enough single women to partner up with the amount of single men there are in America.

Exactly, studies show that in America there are at least 6 million more single men than single women between the ages of 18 to 49.

No wonder why so many men are going overseas to meet women.

[drronnie]

The thing about PUA is that why are we even having to 'do something unnatural' in the first place? As many have said. This is where we've come?
Every man knows and feels this and does it himself, anyway. You kind of have to, here. Unfortunately, the more you act, the more you lose your genuine self.
Why are women not interested in guys, here?

in other places they'd be open and flirtatious, being submissive etc and not having any problem showing you that they wanted you. Since women are at war with themselves - we have to drag it out of them, and pull their part of the interaction. A lot of guys just don't bother.
I'm not around a lot of women, not at my work, nor at school or anywhere. I'm in brief interactions when I go out to the grocery store, etc., or when driving or walking, but most women are insecure and give that ice stare, or are afraid to show vulnerability ( and just see you and then walk on by). I can't tell you the number of interactions I've had with women who've looked at me, were attracted - then had that conflict thing happen, and they just veto it and scurry away somewhere. They ruin it! 9/10 the woman terminates the chance...if she'd just stick around for a millisecond. It would give me a chance to actually talk to her. Women are SO INSECURE, they can't even bear THIS.
This is the problem. This is how you have to literally jump on that millisecond to talk to her or something - allow her to see you're non threatening with a smile.
Women make this shit so goddam hard. They are so entitled, to think the man will chase her...or she just plays this dysfunctional damsel and, somehow expects you to come and fix her. Men don't want to fix a woman. We want to be with a woman! ... I watched "Holiday" with Jude Law and Cameron Diaz (don't ask)..... Diaz's character annoyed the shit out of me to no end, but Law had to literally spend the whole movie rehabbing her and helping her come out of her f***ed up feminist tendencies. That's what we have to do.
Or what do I know. PUA?
PUA is just getting poon, however you can. .. no need to make a science out of it.

Getting girls should be easy, easy as nature - it should just, happen. It's nature. But, for various reasons it's obviously not. Half the time the women irritate me because they have some traits. Half the time I'm feeling weird.
Most of the time I feel just like I'm worthless or, don't have enough to impress them or for what they'd want. I don't know, it's not true. That fear is definitely real and it keeps me alone a lot. I don't even just try. Because I feel inadequate....inside.
In other countries it wouldn't matter - they'd just talk to you if they liked you. That's how it should be. I guess I should tell myself it shouldn't matter, that I'm making it worse in my head - I probably am, but women are picky and even if hey just want to hook up they want to make sure you have everything.
I hate materialism. You just gotta not have this matter, I guarantee you'll get some.

I have not had sex for months. Not real sex. ... I go to Asia in less than a month.
I don't know what I'm doing. I hope this is the right choice. I don't like thinking about it, too hard. Whatever choice you make, is the right choice.

Actually getting laid and a relationship seems to be a normal thing. Unlike the people of Lookism or SLuthate I do not think that everything is based on looks. I know people who dont look better than me but they have something going for them so at the end the end getting relationship whereas people like me dont know how to swim. Unfortunately incelness is not seen as a problem in SEA so there is no availability for dating workshops.