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My friend's scenario: 5'3 Asian male, medical doctor 300K

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Why Delayed Gratifcation needs to be Balanced with Life

Postby TopSpruce » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:17 pm

HouseMD wrote:
TopSpruce wrote:Yup, there are plenty of doctors that don't get laid.

The ones that do usually lower their standards in order to get with someone.

Face it, the qualities that make a good doctor(analytical, reliable, calm, studious, well-balanced, etc.) are traits most American girls are not interested in. They prefer the business guy who is aggressive, strong, spontaneous, charming, and little bit dangerous.

The guys who think outside the box don't become doctors.

Better to become a dentist and waste less time on residency and have more flexible hours. Move abroad permanently too.

I know plenty of USA docs who have a miserable life., better to move abroad and open a small private clinic somewhere.

I wouldn't say usually. A lot of doctors are alpha-male types, especially in the higher paying specialties. They would get laid no matter what they did, they just chose medicine. Do agree with the thinking outside the box bit though. Medicine is generally the thing that smart people do when they can't think of anything else to make money or make a difference. It's pretty much the last field where you can get in and make six figures by intelligence alone, rather than a combination of intelligence and creativity. There are creative doctors, which are the reason we end up with new medical devices and such, but on the whole, physicians are a smart but orthodox-minded group.

And there is a good way to have both freedom and money as a physician. Locum jobs are the way to go. If you independently contract yourself out, you can make up to $450/hr in rural areas. Put in a few years of independent locums with long hours, and you can retire -very- nicely.



Yeah, but what will you do after you retire?

A guy doing locum in rural areas will have no skills other than medicine. He will have poor social skills due to years of disuse.
He is likely to have permanent brain atrophy. Yes, things like depression and social isolation cause long lasting cognitive deficits and alterations in brain structure and function!

Also, after retiring from USA medicine and moving abroad you would need to find a new career. People who retire and just lounge about all day are far more likely to die. You need something to keep you busy.

"A May 2013 report published by the London-based Institute of Economic Affairs found that retirement increased the chances of suffering from depression by 40%, while it increased the probability of having at least one diagnosed physical ailment by about 60%." www.bbc.com/capital/story/20130813-the- ... lden-years



The thing that society keeps pushing on people is the myth of delayed gratification (such as the Stanford marshmellow experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification)

Yes, delaying gratification is a good thing...to an extent. But there is a limit to it.

I wanted to drop out of university and move abroad in my first year of undergrad. I thought about it, and decided it would be better to finish my degree since I already started.
Well, it turned out to be okay since I focused a lot of energy developing my social skills along the way....but that was only 4 years.

Now, lets say 4 more years of MD...followed by 3 years residency, followed by a minimum of 3 years intense work to save up money. Bam... thats a decade of delaying gratification and living in a rural shithole and facing social isolation, celibacy, and stress.

Then, all of a sudden, I go to Southeast Asia. Do you think it will be possible to enjoy life then? In 10 years, the economy of those countries will be much improved and economic reasons will no longer drive women as much to meet foreigners, even in SEA. I will be much older and consequently less likely to meet a cute, young girl. (People who say old women are sexy are deluding themselves...study after study shows female attractiveness peaks around age 21). I will have no local language skills, atrophied social skills, and will probably have lower testosterone and general health levels due to the stress I experienced.

Lets take a look at the alternative: Happier Abroad.

Right away, go study in a foreign country and have a hot girlfriend within a year.

Sure, you get a lower salary, but you get a good girl and have more time to enjoy life while still young and healthy.
There are only a few professions (medicine, dentistry, computer programming, engineering) which allow a good level of income and job availability. Pick one of those and find a country where you can get a nice lifestyle (Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America) and go enjoy life. Getting a USA degree is unlikely to affect your salary much if you end up working in the Philippines, Ukraine, or Bolivia. Better to go now and learn the language and customs and make local connections.
Last edited by TopSpruce on Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Delayed Gratifcation needs to be Balanced with Life

Postby HouseMD » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:29 pm

TopSpruce wrote:
HouseMD wrote:
TopSpruce wrote:Yup, there are plenty of doctors that don't get laid.

The ones that do usually lower their standards in order to get with someone.

Face it, the qualities that make a good doctor(analytical, reliable, calm, studious, well-balanced, etc.) are traits most American girls are not interested in. They prefer the business guy who is aggressive, strong, spontaneous, charming, and little bit dangerous.

The guys who think outside the box don't become doctors.

Better to become a dentist and waste less time on residency and have more flexible hours. Move abroad permanently too.

I know plenty of USA docs who have a miserable life., better to move abroad and open a small private clinic somewhere.

I wouldn't say usually. A lot of doctors are alpha-male types, especially in the higher paying specialties. They would get laid no matter what they did, they just chose medicine. Do agree with the thinking outside the box bit though. Medicine is generally the thing that smart people do when they can't think of anything else to make money or make a difference. It's pretty much the last field where you can get in and make six figures by intelligence alone, rather than a combination of intelligence and creativity. There are creative doctors, which are the reason we end up with new medical devices and such, but on the whole, physicians are a smart but orthodox-minded group.

And there is a good way to have both freedom and money as a physician. Locum jobs are the way to go. If you independently contract yourself out, you can make up to $450/hr in rural areas. Put in a few years of independent locums with long hours, and you can retire -very- nicely.



Yeah, but what will you do after you retire?

A guy doing locum in rural areas will have no skills other than medicine. He will have poor social skills due to years of disuse.
He is likely to have permanent brain atrophy. Yes, things like depression and social isolation cause long lasting cognitive deficits and alterations in brain structure and function!

Also, after retiring from USA medicine and moving abroad you would need to find a new career. People who retire and just lounge about all day are far more likely to die. You need something to keep you busy.

"A May 2013 report published by the London-based Institute of Economic Affairs found that retirement increased the chances of suffering from depression by 40%, while it increased the probability of having at least one diagnosed physical ailment by about 60%." www.bbc.com/capital/story/20130813-the- ... lden-years



The thing that society keeps pushing on people is the myth of delayed gratification (such as the Stanford marshmellow experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification)

Yes, delaying gratification is a good thing...to an extent. But there is a limit to it.

I wanted to drop out of university and move abroad in my first year of undergrad. I thought about it, and decided it would be better to finish my degree since I already started.
Well, it turned out to be okay since I focused a lot of energy developing my social skills along the way....but that was only 4 years.

Now, lets say 4 more years of MD...followed by 3 years residency, followed by a minimum of 3 years intense work to save up money. Bam... thats a decade of delaying gratification and living in a rural shithole and facing social isolation, celibacy, and stress.

Then, all of a sudden, I go to Southeast Asia. Do you think it will be possible to enjoy life then? In 10 years, the economy of those countries will be much improved and economic reasons will no longer drive women as much to meet foreigners, even in SEA. I will be much older and consequently less likely to meet a cute, young girl. (People who say old women are sexy are deluding themselves...study after study shows female attractiveness peaks around age 21). I will have no local language skills, atrophied social skills, and will probably have lower testosterone and general health levels due to the stress I experienced.

Lets take a look at the alternative: Happier Abroad.

Right away, go study in a foreign country and have a hot girlfriend within a year.

I have great relationships with the people I am in school with and have worked with. And I've never been celibate, hell, I've got a girlfriend right now. I want to go abroad to increase my quality of life, not because I am suffering terribly in the U.S. For those of you with no social skills that cannot get laid etc, I wouldn't recommend sticking around. But for me, locum work isn't suffering. I get to meet new people, make new friends, and see new things. I love travel, wherever it takes me, but most places outside the States are better than those inside of it. Hell, I grew up in a rural community, and it wasn't like there was absolutely no one to talk to, there were just less of them. I don't need a billion friends to keep me entertained, just a few coworkers and people at the bar, and maybe a cute local girl to keep me company.

And I don't plan to retire. A U.S. trained physician shouldn't find it hard to find an academic position at a college or medical school to keep their mind busy. Even if all I'm teaching is freshman biology or anatomy and physiology, I'm plenty happy. Most SEA countries are lenient on foreign college professors so far as visas are concerned as well.

Even if the economy of SEA improves, I'm not relying on economics. I've always done well with middle class foreign girls. I think I'm a good enough person to land a decent girl in eight years, plus even if their GDP doubles in ten years AND those wealth gains pass down to the people evenly, I'll still have more money than most people in these countries makes in their entire lifetime. (Current average income in Thailand, for instance, is $8,200 a year. Double it to $16,400 and then multiply that by 40 years of work and you get $656,000 total lifetime earnings. I highly doubt there will be a 10% increase each year in household income, however.) Another factor is the fact that I can always just fly back to the states, work for three months at a locum position, then fly back if I'm ever short on cash, which I'll probably do at least once a year just to keep my skills up. I can bank more in that time than most Thais make in several years.

The alternative for me would be dropping med school, going overseas, and teaching English or something for 30k a year, living a middle class life, and having large segments of middle and upper class women basically off limits. They aren't easy to nab if you have a good deal of money, but they are just about impossible to get if you're a foreigner teaching English. I'd be younger, but I'd have what I believe to be a poorer selection of women available to me. I'm really going for more educated, middle class girls, as I believe intelligence is somewhat heritable. While many poor girls might carry genes for intelligence but not have had the chance to cultivate them, a girl who has finished a degree and can converse on my level will be proof that she's either got the genes or the grit to be smart, either way, she'll help me raise sharp kids.

A lot of guys on here are looking for sex with hot younger (18-21) girls, but I'll tell you, while it's a good time, if you settle down with one, she's going to age eventually. So you should think about what you want in a partner beyond just looks and youth. Do you want a good mother? A girl who is a porn star in bed? Someone you have a meaningful connection with? I'm not saying go for older women, just look for the young ones that have the looks and... Something else that can make you happy.

Also I'm not exactly suffering to leave the country. I get school vacations and a month of vacation every year when in residency, plus as much time off as I decide I want when I'm finally working locum positions. It's not like I am putting all of my travel on hold for the next few years. Hell, I'm doing a 2-3 month thing this summer in SEA.
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Postby TopSpruce » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:33 pm

I never recommend becoming an English teacher. Its a good idea to become a dentist, computer programmer, or Engineer... in a foreign country. They have universities over there that can train professionals.

Regarding income, past a certain point increases in wealth are not useful. Studies show that over salaries over 70,000 USD a year in America lead to no further increases in happiness. After a certain point, you don't need more cash.

With regards to women being interested in foreigners, the cutoff point is the middle income level.
When the GDP PPP per capita increases to about 20,000 people are no longer interested in foreigners as much. If Thailand's PPP doubles from the current 10,000 to 20,000 it will be much harder to meet quality girls.

Furthermore, income alone is not important. Look at Ukraine. While still poor, it is now considerably harder to meet an educated middle class girl there than it was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago (according to a friend who has lived there for a while).

As more foreigners arrive, their reputation is ruined by sex tourists and it becomes shameful for girls to meet with them. Furthermore, as a country expands economically, they become more proud and want to date within their culture. Most women prefer guys from within their own culture.

If you want your child to be intelligent..you should consider a healthy early 20s wife. Genetic defects increase markedly with age. Why do you think evolution programmed us to seek young women? I certainly don't want my child to be born with autism. The risk goes up considerably with age.

Moreover, intelligence is overrated. An IQ above 120 does not lead to greater career success except in specialized field such as theoretical physics. As you admit, creativity is a huge factor in career success.

Perhaps instead of wasting time achieving more income that will not impress girls you could learn their culture, language and develop your social skills further. While you may have good social skills, it is always possible to improve them further. Good social skills would go much further to meeting an intelligent and quality wife than money past a middle class level.
A medical career in the US is certainly not the best way to advance social skills.

Look at these two options:

Option 1:Went Abroad

Cute, intelligent middle class foreign girl sees a guy with a dentistry practice in her own city. He finished university in this foreign country and had time to learn the way things work here. He speaks her language and cracks a joke that she understands. Having lived like a local for many years, he understands whats valued in her culture. He displays his worth to her in the right ways. Having little stress and enough time to eat right and exercise, the man looks young and athletic. The girl likes how he looks in the latest local fashion. They go out to dinner at a hip spot that locals in the know frequent. Even though its not super expensive, the place is new to her and she is impressed by his good taste. Having more free time than a USA doctor, the man learned salsa dancing. He isn't super agile, but with lots of practice he got pretty decent. He takes her out on the dance floor and they have fun. She's laughing at his jokes and enjoying the way he touches her. She feels comfortable and at home with him. She thinks about how her parents will accept him and decides he's worth introducing to them. They get married and have a family.

Option 2:Stayed home

In 2023, a doctor from the USA arrives to a foreign land. He doesn't speak the language except for a few words. He meets a middle class, intelligent, and pretty girl. She pegs him as a sex tourist....just like all the others who've already been to her town. She's not a pro.stitute so she doesn't want to be seen with him. Moreover, the guy looks out of shape since he is overworked and stressed. His dress is typical American and he looks out of place and awkward in the city. The guy somehow manages to convince her to give him a shot. He takes her to a fancy restaurant thinking he'll impress her. The girl has already been there- her last BF was a local lawyer who took her there often. The man realizes he has more money than he can actually use in a useful way. The dinner is dull and the pair has difficulty communicating. The foreign doctor tries to crack a joke, but the girl doesn't understand the humor and feels insulted. The guy has below average social skills since he spent many hours a week working and studying. She's bored and asks the guy to dance, he fumbles badly having had little time to practice. She never introduces the guy to her parents...they would not understand him. The USA doctor can't seem to catch a break.
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Postby HouseMD » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:26 pm

TopSpruce wrote:I never recommend becoming an English teacher. Its a good idea to become a dentist, computer programmer, or Engineer... in a foreign country. They have universities over there that can train professionals.

Regarding income, past a certain point increases in wealth are not useful. Studies show that over salaries over 70,000 USD a year in America lead to no further increases in happiness. After a certain point, you don't need more cash.

With regards to women being interested in foreigners, the cutoff point is the middle income level.
When the GDP PPP per capita increases to about 20,000 people are no longer interested in foreigners as much. If Thailand's PPP doubles from the current 10,000 to 20,000 it will be much harder to meet quality girls.

Furthermore, income alone is not important. Look at Ukraine. While still poor, it is now considerably harder to meet an educated middle class girl there than it was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago (according to a friend who has lived there for a while).

As more foreigners arrive, their reputation is ruined by sex tourists and it becomes shameful for girls to meet with them. Furthermore, as a country expands economically, they become more proud and want to date within their culture. Most women prefer guys from within their own culture.

If you want your child to be intelligent..you should consider a healthy early 20s wife. Genetic defects increase markedly with age. Why do you think evolution programmed us to seek young women? I certainly don't want my child to be born with autism. The risk goes up considerably with age.

Moreover, intelligence is overrated. An IQ above 120 does not lead to greater career success except in specialized field such as theoretical physics. As you admit, creativity is a huge factor in career success.

Perhaps instead of wasting time achieving more income that will not impress girls you could learn their culture, language and develop your social skills further. While you may have good social skills, it is always possible to improve them further. Good social skills would go much further to meeting an intelligent and quality wife than money past a middle class level.
A medical career in the US is certainly not the best way to advance social skills.

Look at these two options:

Option 1:

Cute, intelligent middle class girl sees a guy with a dentistry practice in her own city. He speaks her language and cracks a joke that she understands. Having lived like a local for many years, he understands whats valued in her culture. He displays his worth to her in the right ways. Having little stress and enough time to eat right and exercise, the man looks young and athletic. The girl likes how he looks in the latest local fashion. They go out to dinner at a hip spot that locals in the know frequent. Even though its not super expensive, the place is new to her and she is impressed by his good taste. Having more free time than a USA doctor, the man learned salsa dancing. He isn't super agile, but with lots of practice he got pretty decent. He takes her out on the dance floor and they have fun. She's laughing at his jokes and enjoying the way he touches her. She feels comfortable and at home with him. She thinks about how her parents will accept him and decides he's worth introducing to them. They get married and have a family.

Option 2:

In 2023, a doctor from the USA arrives to a foreign land. He doesn't speak the language except for a few words. He meets a middle class, intelligent, and pretty girl. She pegs him as a sex tourist....just like all the others who've already been to her town. She's not a hoe so she doesn't want to be seen with him. Moreover, the guy looks out of shape since he is overworked and stressed. His dress is typical American and he looks out of place and akward in the city. The guy somehow manages to convince her to give him a shot. He takes her to a fancy restaurant thinking he'll impress her. The girl has already been there- her last BF was a local lawyer who took her there often. The man realizes he has more money than he can actually use in a useful way. The dinner is dull and the pair has difficulty communicating. The foreign doctor tries to crack a joke, but the girl doesn't understand the humor and feels insulted. The guy has below average social skills since he spent many hours a week working and studying. She's bored and asks the guy to dance, he fumbles badly having had little time to practice. She never introduces the guy to her parents...they would not understand him. The USA doctor can't seem to catch a break.

Here's the thing. I don't just want to be a doctor for women. In fact I'm not doing it at all for women, as if that was what I was going for, I'd be much better off going to banking or some other lucrative field. The thing is, I love medicine. A lot. And I love teaching the art of medicine to others even more. When I was in allied health, I would love teaching residents about things that they didn't learn in medical school. Seeing their eyes light up as they actually -understood- something like mechanical ventilation for the first time was... Just awesome, I can't really describe it. Medicine is my life's work, and even after I move, I'm hoping to get a job with a local college, medical school, embassy, or the CDC so I can still use my skills or teach them to others. In addition to day-to-day work, I intend to work with medical mission groups whenever I can.

And I just used Thailand as an example. I plan on heading to the Philippines, personally. There's no way in hell their income will hit $20,000 even in the next 30 years without a meteor made of solid gold hitting their government offices, simultaneously stamping out high level corruption and providing ample resources for their country. I was in love with a half filipina (hell, we were engaged) for three years, and spent a good deal of time with her family. I came to love the culture of the Philippines, learned a bit of Taglish, got used to the food and the general mentality of Filipinos. So I know a decent amount about the culture, like the people, and will be visiting pretty much yearly for the next 8 years. I'm even going to do a full two months of away rotations in Cebu and Manila to build ties with the physician community there after 3rd year (my school has relationships with medical schools in both areas). It's not like I'll just be some awkward guy who knows nothing of the local culture. Once I find the area I would like to stay in, I'm hoping to revisit every year and do clinic work until I'm done with residency so that I can establish myself in the community.

The money isn't for impressing women, it's for building a legacy. The difference between rich and poor people is that rich people create multigenerational caches of assets. I want to make sure that my children and their descendents are well taken care of. If I set aside enough money early on for them, compound interest on my investments will give them the resources to do whatever they choose. I want my children to have every opportunity I never had, with the resources to mingle with the upper class if they so choose. This is another reason I want them to be intelligent. In wealthy countries, intelligence, education, and parental wealth are three of the largest predictors of income, while education and parental wealth are the largest predictors of overall wealth. I will provide their starting wealth and pay for their education, but -and here is where no one has done any research- I believe that IQ will play a much larger role in success in a developing nation than in a developed one. I am not bringing my children back to America under any circumstances. I'll get them the passport, but that is it.

And obviously I'm going to look for a younger woman. But you're good so far as genetic defects are concerned up until about 32 years of age. If I snag a 24 year old, we could conceivably have as many as 8 children in that time, with a mere 0.26% chance of one of the eight having a chromosomal birth defect, as calculated by adding the chance of each individual child on each given birth year having a defect per the website below. And really, I don't think I'm down with having 8 kids, so the chances will be even lower than that.

http://php.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/i ... ternal_age

So there it is. I'll be older but hopefully be a respected member of the community who does development and volunteer work and actually has a job. I'll have a decent amount of the culture down. And I'll be in shape because, believe it or not, there's plenty of time for doctors to work out and eat right. It's all up to the individual, and I'm big on personal health. Many of the doctors I worked with in the past were some of the most in shape people you'd ever meet. And finally, I'm not looking to impress a girl through my income, but through my personality. The wealth is for my legacy.

Oh and the dentistry thing won't work in the Philippines, nor will being a lawyer, or doctor, or engineer. The Philippines Constitution prevents anyone that is not a natural born Filipino from working a job that requires licensure. The only real money making options for a foreigner are starting a business in one of the special development zones, working in finance, being a college professor (college is taught in English in the PI, so this is an easy transition for an educated foreigner), or making your money online. I'm not much for online entrepreneurship, I like physical businesses, and breaking into international finance isn't my cup of tea. College professor it is, unless I can land a U.S. government job with the CDC, DoS, or as an embassy medical officer.

Over the years I've developed a very old school "the kids are what it's all about" mentality toward relationships, so my situation is very different from many of yours. This is also why I refuse to marry an American woman- the environment is too toxic for children here, it will be nearly impossible for them to get ahead, and a good wife and mother is near impossible to find to begin with. It's not that I couldn't do it, it's just it isn't ideal. I'm not miserable at home, after all. I'm just happier abroad.
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Postby HouseMD » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:41 pm

Let me also state that I have grander goals in life than most. If you just want to get laid, have a middle-class life, and have that be the end of it, my path is quite literally insane.

I want more than that. Want to make a difference in this world, and, while I don't care to be remembered, I want to have descendants that carry on and make the world a better place, and for my family to carry on with some importance in the world, rather than be poor or middle class pawns of the wealthy. Basically I want the American dream. But it doesn't exist in America anymore, so I'm going elsewhere and making that shit happen.

We all want different things in life. I don't give a damn about what any of you want or judge it, so long as it's on the right side of the law (also okay with you guys that want hoes, not my flavor, but it shouldn't be illegal). But this is what I want.
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Postby TopSpruce » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:13 pm

I don't think you need to be a natural born Filipino to work in the Philippines as a licensed professional:


section 13. qualifications for admission to the licensure examination. - in order to be admitted to the examination for nurses, an applicant must, at the time of filing his/her application, establish to the satisfaction of the board that:
(a) he/she is a citizen of the philippines, or a citizen or subject of a country which permits filipino nurses to practice within its territorial limits on the same basis as the subject or citizen of such country: provided, that the requirements for the registration or licensing of nurses in said country are substantially the same as those prescribed in this act;
(b) he/she is of good moral character; and
(c) he/she is a holder of a bachelor's degree in nursing from a college or university that complies with the standards of nursing education duly recognized by the proper government agency.

(more info here, including general licensing for all professionals:http://www.prc.gov.ph/uploaded/documents/PRC%20RESO%202012-668_%2007-12-12.pdf

Basically, if the requirements in the citizens' country are similar to PI requirements, which they are, you are allowed to register to take the license exam just like how a Filipino can register to take the USMLE.


But, I may agree that if you are planning to live in the Philippines it may be better to wait and earn some US income first. That place will still be relatively open to foreigners in 10 years.

I myself prefer East European women and that place is rapidly closing to foreigners.

PI does seem like a nice place, especially after having a lot of money saved up from the US.
Perhaps there is some way I can convince myself to prefer Asians, hmm..
Last edited by TopSpruce on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Jeremy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:20 pm

Usually height makes very little difference. But being 5'3" is a legit disability.
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Postby HouseMD » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:32 pm

TopSpruce wrote:I don't think you need to be a natural born Filipino to work in the Philippines as a licensed professional:


section 13. qualifications for admission to the licensure examination. - in order to be admitted to the examination for nurses, an applicant must, at the time of filing his/her application, establish to the satisfaction of the board that:
(a) he/she is a citizen of the philippines, or a citizen or subject of a country which permits filipino nurses to practice within its territorial limits on the same basis as the subject or citizen of such country: provided, that the requirements for the registration or licensing of nurses in said country are substantially the same as those prescribed in this act;
(b) he/she is of good moral character; and
(c) he/she is a holder of a bachelor's degree in nursing from a college or university that complies with the standards of nursing education duly recognized by the proper government agency.


But, I may agree that if you are planning to live in the Philippines it may be better to wait and earn some US income first. That place will still be relatively open to foreigners in 10 years.

I myself prefer East European women and that place is rapidly closing to foreigners.

PI does seem like a nice place, especially after having a lot of money saved up from the US.
Perhaps there is some way I can convince myself to prefer Asians, hmm..

You would make more money in a call center by far than working as a nurse in the PI lol. Nursing is a licensed but not professional position in the PI, as they work under the direction of physicians. Professionals are a strictly defined set of careers in many countries that require specific education and licensure and result in largely self directed employment.

I believe in the PI it covers dentists, doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

And Asians aren't for everybody. I simply prefer the culture to that of Eastern Europe. Everyone is always so down about their own country and culture there, or at least that was the impression I got from all the younger people I would hang out with. It's all so self depricating. The PI is a bit down about their culture, but their people still manage to be very happy and celebrate life. I also feel like I can make more of a positive difference there than in eastern Europe.

If you want in on the FSU, you're totally right though. Down as they can be about their culture, they aren't exactly jumping to be with foreign men like they used to, and, in ten years or so, will likely be far more westernized.
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Postby TopSpruce » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:09 am

In the link I included in the post they mention professional more generally (it is the link for the licensing board of the Philippines and includes doctors/dentists/engineers/etc).

:http://www.prc.gov.ph/uploaded/documents/PRC%20RESO%202012-668_%2007-12-12.pdf




They state the same- reciprocity. If a Filipino is able to take the licensing exam in a certain country, then citizens of that country are allowed to take the licensing exam in the Philippines. Perhaps the law changed since your last review, but as of now it appears it is possible to work as a doctor in PI.



Yes, I imagine PI may be happier. Its worth considering of course.
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Postby HouseMD » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:37 am

TopSpruce wrote:In the link I included in the post they mention professional more generally (it is the link for the licensing board of the Philippines and includes doctors/dentists/engineers/etc).

:http://www.prc.gov.ph/uploaded/documents/PRC%20RESO%202012-668_%2007-12-12.pdf




They state the same- reciprocity. If a Filipino is able to take the licensing exam in a certain country, then citizens of that country are allowed to take the licensing exam in the Philippines. Perhaps the law changed since your last review, but as of now it appears it is possible to work as a doctor in PI.



Yes, I imagine PI may be happier. Its worth considering of course.

http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2013/08 ... nomobile=1

Here is an article on it. Looks like law is the only practice that is outright banned to foreigners, but other professions have such onerous requirements for foreigners that they just don't bother applying. A complicating factor for me is that I will be a doctor of osteopathic medicine, so I am allowed to practice medicine in full in the united states and on missions, I do not know if they would license me as a physician due to my qualifications being somewhat different.
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Postby momopi » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:41 am

TopSpruce wrote:Regarding income, past a certain point increases in wealth are not useful. Studies show that over salaries over 70,000 USD a year in America lead to no further increases in happiness. After a certain point, you don't need more cash.


The 2010 Princeton University Study reported $75,000:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 28,00.html
http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/0 ... iness.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/ ... 00-a-year/

The data was collected from ~450,000 US residents in 2008-2009. We're entering 2014 soon.
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Postby HouseMD » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:57 am

momopi wrote:
TopSpruce wrote:Regarding income, past a certain point increases in wealth are not useful. Studies show that over salaries over 70,000 USD a year in America lead to no further increases in happiness. After a certain point, you don't need more cash.


The 2010 Princeton University Study reported $75,000:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 28,00.html
http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/0 ... iness.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/ ... 00-a-year/

The data was collected from ~450,000 US residents in 2008-2009. We're entering 2014 soon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/ ... -prove-it/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3179345/

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/resear ... income.pdf

A much more comprehensive study that looked at over 150 countries has found that more money basically always correlates to more happiness. The scope and methods of this study were comprehensive enough to effectively debunk the Easterlin Paradox, which was based on research that was much less comprehensive, over 40 years old, and much smaller in scale.
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Happi

Postby TopSpruce » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:32 am

Easterlin has published new studies. Also, even his critics will mostly agree to diminishing returns of increasing income on happiness.

But lets look at things from the Happier Abroad perspective:


"I really had no desire to get vulgar or sexual with my blogs, but today, I have reached my limit. There is a wonderfully nice man here from Canada or America and he is having such a hard time meeting Ukrainian girls.
It does not matter how helpful I am to him. It doesn’t matter if I have my woman matchmaker introduce him to girls. It doesn’t matter if he meets girls from the paying, scamming websites, he really is out of his depth.

This western man does not lie. He does not cheat. He does not steal, but he also has no idea what it means to be a man. I have been thinking, “why am I so upset at him?â€￾
I realize I am upset at him because this is the exact behavior I have displayed for much of my life when it came to girls. You see, I hate confrontation. I hate arguing, and I don’t like meeting any kind of resistance. As a result of this, I usually have just let girls have their way throughout my life. I have just given in to whatever they have wanted in an effort to make them happy, thinking and of course hoping that eventually, some girl would fall in love with me because of my niceness and my generosity.
However, I know this is not the way a true man behaves, and this is not the behavior that attracts girls. In the American culture, the men have been trapped inside of a culture in which they are scared to say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, or offend any girls for fear of losing their job, being sued, or of offending a girl and driving her away.
The reality is that it is the culture which is screwed up, and the dynamic between men and women is not healthy at all in my home country. "

-----------//-----------
If money were that important, do people go expat and lose hundreds of thousands on potential income in order to seek happiness?
-----------/-------/---///

The fact is, a lot of modern society is f***ed up.

If income was really that important, I would be focusing on making money....but I know that money is not the solution.

Perhaps on average, certain things are true. but there are a lot of people who have money and are unhappy.

Social connections, physical fitness/health, and a sense of purpose from philosophy or spirituality are much more important than money once your basic needs are met.
And studies agree with that.
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Re: Happi

Postby HouseMD » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:59 am

TopSpruce wrote:Easterlin has published new studies. Also, even his critics will mostly agree to diminishing returns of increasing income on happiness.

But lets look at things from the Happier Abroad perspective:


"I really had no desire to get vulgar or sexual with my blogs, but today, I have reached my limit. There is a wonderfully nice man here from Canada or America and he is having such a hard time meeting Ukrainian girls.
It does not matter how helpful I am to him. It doesn’t matter if I have my woman matchmaker introduce him to girls. It doesn’t matter if he meets girls from the paying, scamming websites, he really is out of his depth.

This western man does not lie. He does not cheat. He does not steal, but he also has no idea what it means to be a man. I have been thinking, “why am I so upset at him?â€￾
I realize I am upset at him because this is the exact behavior I have displayed for much of my life when it came to girls. You see, I hate confrontation. I hate arguing, and I don’t like meeting any kind of resistance. As a result of this, I usually have just let girls have their way throughout my life. I have just given in to whatever they have wanted in an effort to make them happy, thinking and of course hoping that eventually, some girl would fall in love with me because of my niceness and my generosity.
However, I know this is not the way a true man behaves, and this is not the behavior that attracts girls. In the American culture, the men have been trapped inside of a culture in which they are scared to say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, or offend any girls for fear of losing their job, being sued, or of offending a girl and driving her away.
The reality is that it is the culture which is screwed up, and the dynamic between men and women is not healthy at all in my home country. "

-----------//-----------
If money were that important, do people go expat and lose hundreds of thousands on potential income in order to seek happiness?
-----------/-------/---///

The fact is, a lot of modern society is f***ed up.

If income was really that important, I would be focusing on making money....but I know that money is not the solution.

Perhaps on average, certain things are true. but there are a lot of people who have money and are unhappy.

Social connections, physical fitness/health, and a sense of purpose from philosophy or spirituality are much more important than money once your basic needs are met.
And studies agree with that.

I'm in shape, have good social connections, and a sense of purpose. Hell, I don't even have problems with women. So I'm getting money so I can build something that lasts beyond my years on this earth.
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