Discuss and talk about any general topic.
So I was talking with a very good female friend of mine that I have known for years that has been having dating problems. I made a comment about how feminism is pretty much the reason all of it is happening, and said that, although many women would hate her for saying it, she totally agrees. Some highlights from the conversation:
-Race isn't really a deal breaker: She's gotten tired of white men that act like boys, and is considering dating men of other nationalities because of it. She wants a man that runs the house, knows how to fix things, and doesn't act like a child when he's upset. She has a thing for the more attractive Indian and Middle Eastern men out there (they're all either 10s or 2s), as well as darker men from the Mediterranean region. Her parents would disown her if she dated a man that wasn't white, but it's worth it if she can find a real man.
-Penis size matters, but not as much as some guys think: If a guy is really small, it's a deal breaker. So long as he's average or larger, it's all good. There's no advantage in her mind to a large penis versus a medium sized one, and neither really changes how she feels about a guy. In her experience, guys with small penises tended to have insecurities that were pretty much insufferable, aside from the whole sex-not-being-as-good bit. But small has to be small- we're talking a roll of change sized cock here. If you're bigger than that, chill. Most girls don't care.
-She wants a man that is smarter than her: She can't respect a man that she can outsmart. It's the woman's place to be the intellectual lesser of the pair, as when the woman has a mental edge, she can easily control the relationship. Woman don't want to be in control, that is the man's job.
-She wants a man that earns more than her: Men get insecure when they aren't the breadwinner. It isn't so much that she cares that they make more money than her, but more that she's tired of men feeling emasculated due to being the one bringing in less cash.
-She wants a man that is taller than her, but not too much taller: She's a short (5'0") and attractive girl, and she loves guys in the 5'4"-5'6" range because they're easy to kiss without it being awkward, she looks better with them when they are viewed as a couple, and because there is less competition for guys that are around that height even if they are attractive. Many of them tend to work harder to compensate for their perceived lack of status owing to height, so it's a win-win-win for her, less competition, they still look good, and they are often successful to boot, mitigating her conundrum of being the high earner in a couple.
-She feels f***ed by feminism: Feminism has created an environment where women have actually lost a lot of the advantages they once had if they were looking for a guy to marry. Since women are now free to sleep around thanks to the sexual liberation movement, a woman can't just wait to put out, as guys just move on. Even after women were more sexually liberated, men would still pay for dates, expecting a woman to sleep with them in return. With casual sex being the norm, finding a guy willing to commit is a problem, as a man is essentially sacrificing his promiscuity to ensure access to one woman. Back in the day, the deal was most men couldn't sleep around, aside from at brothels, as society looked down upon sex outside of marriage, so marriage served as a way for men to access sex with a quality woman. On dates, now the guys only pay their half, and still expect sex regardless. With the deterioration of marriage and middle class wages, she has to establish a career, as she might never find a man willing to commit, and even if she does, they might both be required to work to sustain a household. Feminism was supposed to give women the option to work, not force them to in order to survive. Now being a stay at home mother is an option that is all but nonexistent. She'd love to be able to take a time machine fifty years into the past, when men knew how to be men and women were free to be women. Now she's surrounded by men that want to stay boys and women that want to be men. Feminism has made her love life miserable and her chances of marriage slim.
Many men here talk about the evils of feminism to other men in the day to day. I've been talking about it with women. It is sometimes for the first time in their life that the conversation of "maybe it should be okay for them to be women, and men to be men" has really come up. Most had never really even thought of it, but once they think it over, a lot of them are pissed off at the way things are today. This particular female friend of mine's dislike of feminism was rooted in a brief comment I made about one of her exes, in which I told her that perhaps he felt emasculated by her earning more than he did and working more than he did, that perhaps it's hard to justify his existence as a man. I forgot about the conversation, but she didn't. The more she thought about it, the more she felt that feminism had f***ed her over.
Don't know what insight this might provide to any of you, but figured I'd post it.
So, if we were to summarize what this particular woman is looking for in a guy: act like a man, be smarter than her, don't let her have the upper hand in the relationship, make more money than her (or at least don't be insecure if you don't), have an average sized cock, be 4" taller than her, and have some traditional manly skills and values.
Let's build this man and make his preferences match her attributes.
He's smarter and wants someone dumber.
He won't let her have the upper hand but still has to expend effort resisting her trying to get it (VAWA, FRA, anyone?)
He makes more money than her. (What's his is theirs, what's hers is hers. See above.)
He has average endowment and wants to marry a woman who has seen enough cocks to know what "average" is.
He has traditional manly skills and values (Do those values include "paying full price" for a woman who has seen enough penii to know what "average" is?)
He'll still get shafted in divorce court, when she gets bored in 8 years; why would someone "smarter" take that risk?
You'd made such a long post, I read it in anticipation of seeing if this woman was going to be one "honest" enough to mention what she was bringing to the table, besides an appetite, a fork, & a hole more traveled than old Route 66, in exchange for her list of .. eh .. desires.
NOPE. Nothing. Cricket, effing cricket.
This reads like too many conversations I've read, heard, & listened to over the last 30 years.
They want the benefits of bad ol' "pay-tree-ark-eee", the benefits of modern "liberation"....
and the responsibilities of neither... fried ice.
Our hypothetical man, depending on his age & experience, would say 'eff that.
He'll either ignore her, or pump and dump her.
Women wanted "equality". Now, they're getting it good and hard and this is only the tip.
Feminism has inadvertently liberated the men, if men choose it.
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"Even an American judge is unlikely to award child support for imputed children." - FredOnEverything
But there are things to be learned from this. For one, she doesn't want sex with random men. She wants see with the right man. She doesn't want to work, but she's been forced to because feminism has made working her only option. She would be perfectly happy being a stay at home mother that had only banged one guy, who had never gone to college because she didn't need to, that dated a man she respected that took control of their relationship. She doesn't want feminism or its supposed advantages, but because of the deterioration of traditional roles brought on by feminism, she had been forced into a life she doesn't want. She doesn't want control, but rather wants to be controlled, yet she lives in a society in which she must be a man's superior or equal because that is what school and the media trained her to be. It's sad, honestly, and she is just sad she wasn't born in a different and more traditional era.
If nothing else this should be a beacon of hope. It shows that feminism is so awful that even the indoctrinated cannot bear it. When and if America falls to pieces, feminism will likely fall with it. It might not happen in our lifetimes, but someday women and men will return to their natural place in the social order.
But the say one thing, do another could very well be a product of having feminism shoved down their throat whole naturally being driven to femininity. Two generations of societal manipulation is not enough to breed the natural desires out of women. This is probably a large part of weeny Western women seem so crazy.
Yeah maybe. I always just attributed it to a lack of self awareness.
Either way, it doesn't really matter. Women are what they are.
There's no pleasing American women.
If they find the perfect guy and everything is going well they'll do something to screw up the relationship because they like the drama and they like dominating men in general due to their high aptitude for narcissism. America is the easiest country in the world for any woman to find a suitable husband. Incidentally, there's no such thing as "An Honest Conversation With An American Woman".
I think that many women in the USA do not really know WHAT they want. There are so many mixed messages floating around that they really can't seem to catch their bearings. They'll THINK they have things figured out while they are young, but then get a reality check as they age which forces them to re-think things. Many will tell you what they want in a man and out of life and then go for the exact opposite. If you really drill them and push them to give reasons why they do what they do, many will not have an answer for you. I can't tell you how many times that the end answer is "I don't know what I want!".
That said, I understand the environment is much of the problem and western men have helped to create it. No feminist in America would feel so "empowered" if NO man put up with it. The problem is that there are too many men that will do ANYTHING for "relationships" and/or sex. They give away any power or authority that they could have in order to get and maintain it. This is a severe weakness and will never work long-term. It causes misery to anyone that gets involved in it. The government will NEVER be on our side...ever. Stop wasting time thinking that will ever happen cause it won't. Every INDIVIDUAL man must take control of his own life. If more men did this, things wouldn't be as bad as they are now. Those male weaklings make things harder and worse for every good man....as well as for themselves in the long run. Guys say they hate PUA, but it's the weaklings that help enable the success of PUA. Without the weaklings, PUA wouldn't work so well. PUA is FAKE confidence...it's BS. If more men carried themselves with real confidence, it would hurt the PUA game. This would be good for men that want to be themselves and STILL have success with women.
Last edited by tre on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
You've heard of the war-bride phenomenon.
I think recent history (Axis-occupied France, Vietnam, post-Soviet Russia & CIS countries, even Iraq, etc) shows that when the going gets tough, women will market themselves to the ruling power or foreign men doing better.
"I would rather cry in a BMW than laugh on a bicycle."
As America declines, I expect many AW to (re)turn to religion -- wherever religious men are feeding themselves.
Others will suddenly discover how sweet & kind Asian (or whichever advancing ethnic group) men are.
Until then, I think they bear Feminism just fine (they just complain about the bill).
When I see the likes of Steinem, Allred, & Wolf afraid to leave their houses because TradCon women are threatening to kick their asses, then I'll pay the cries of We-Want-Back-in-the-Kitchen more attention.
Only for entertainment, though. No point in letting one in, by then.
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"Even an American judge is unlikely to award child support for imputed children." - FredOnEverything
Yes, America is the EASIEST country in the world for women to meet, date and find a husband. I NEVER hear women complain about the dating scene in the USA. As a matter of fact, I sometimes hear women say, they have TOO many men asking them out!
For women in the US, no man is quite good enough for them. No matter how romantic, sensitive, kind and compassionate he is, an American woman will STILL find some fault with the guy!
Even if the guy is loving, kind, good looking, in great shape and makes a lot of money, that STILL may not be enough to please an American woman! WTF?
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"
"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
She hates feminism because she realizes her hypergamy can never be fulfilled by it. Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. She's getting what she deserves, along with the rest of the c**ts. Now that feminism has pushed the majority of the men out of society, she's having her "Wile E. Coyote" moment. Enjoy the fall, bitch.
A helpful guide:
Expatriation Apocalypse! The Guide to Expatriation for the Broke and Hopeless (Kindle)
Expatriation Apocalypse! (Paperback)
Women really don't have a mind of their own. They just follow what their friends are doing and what society/the media tells them to do.
I have a hard time believing that women are biologically hardwired to do anything....because all I see is society sending them a message and them following it without question.
Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of men are like that too. But I've met FAR more free thinking men than women (I have met some women like this, but I pretty much can count them on one hand).
I've said this before and I'll say it again: PUA is a bad idea. I was into it for many years. Basically, it' all about completely changing yourself just to get a girl, under the guise of self improvement. It's the ultimate supplication. While it can be good, in the sense that it pushes you to have more experience with women, overall it's bad because it teaches you that being yourself is wrong.
Again, PUAs are just p*ssy-beggers to the extreme degree.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
The trouble isn't that they can't get dates. It's that there's few real men left, we've become a nation of lazy boys that would rather kick back and play Modern Warfare 22: Electric Boogaloo than do anything becoming of a real man. She could find a dozen boys that want to marry her- there's one guy that smokes pot all day and stocks shelves for minimum wage, another guy who is more interested in watching TV and playing Magic: the Gathering than he is in sex, another one who is drunk 70% of his waking hours and is unemployed, etc. All she wants is a guy who basically runs the show, and no man is willing to step up and do what men have been doing for 10,000 years.
I'm not saying we should be going after American women, god no. Nor that we should wait for them to come around. But if the attitude of women wanting to be in traditional relationships becomes more pervasive, perhaps someday feminism will fall. This is extremely important to the future of the world, as feminism spreads like a plague. If it were to fall in the U.S., the spread might contract or halt. There needs to be a movement of women pushing for traditional gender roles, and men that are willing to step up and fill those shoes to boot.
I have 5 male cousins. All of them are manly, traditional men that work blue collar jobs. They are all happily married to attractive, traditional American women. It's a small sample size, but it goes to show, real women like real men, and maybe American men should man up a bit and stop being a bunch of immature boys or metrosexual pansies.
And as to her honesty, I assure you, this woman and I are completely honest with each other. We're basically best friends, but totally incompatible romantically, and have lived with one another for years. Hell, she was even a good girl once, waiting for a man to walk into her life. She waited till she was 22 to have sex for the first time, with the guy she thought was the one. It didn't work out, as he fell for another woman, left my friend, and married the new girl shortly after (he was onto something though, they've been together ever since). And she's still been looking for a man for the last few years, but can't find a single guy that acts like an adult.
So far as women's standards, why shouldn't they have standards? I don't want a girl that simply loves me, I want quite a few other things. And I sure as hell don't want a girl that'll settle down with the first guy that loves her back and has a job. What would that say about me if she settled for me and had standards that were that low?
All that said, I'm still getting the f**k out ASAP. I just wanted to give some thought to if there was any hope that the spread of feminism might be curtailed, and whether the most recent generation of men are such pussies that perhaps they are shooting themselves in the foot in addition to having the knife of feminism planted firmly in their back.
She never wanted this. She just wanted to sleep with one guy after marriage (she's quite a religious Catholic), but no guy would stay with her without her putting out. She held on till 22 years old, a f***ing feat in today's oversexualized society. And even after that failed, she didn't have sex for another three years as she waited for another decent guy to come along. She wasn't exactly a slut with her grand total of 1 partner up until she was 25 years old. But again, no guy would go on more than a second date if she didn't put out, so eventually she just gave up.
There are a good number of women that don't really want to sleep around, believe it or not. They just want to marry one guy that is half-decent in bed. True sluts are a minority, and there are plenty of studies to back that fact up.
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