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Weight Lifting (Bulking) Programs

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby tre » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:19 pm

theprimebait wrote:its a FACT that all natural bodybuilders use some kind of chemical.they are liars.simple.

you can't get noticabely big without it.you may gain alot of muscle after a few yrs working out,but it will not be noticable if you have a shirt on.



No arguments there, the vast majority of natural bodybuilders DO use steroids at some point. They simply go off before it's time to test before the meet. The guys that get really big without steroids are the big-framed guys...no arguments there either. "Big" is all relative though. An ecto guy that is 6' CAN get up to 200lbs ripped without steroids. That is likely near his physical potential. You will still be able to tell that he works out unless he's wearing clothes that are way too big for him.

A big framed guy that doesn't lift weights that is 6' will be 200+ pounds without lifting. There are many variables to consider before assuming they are powerful. Many big framed guys are not strong, they do well to only carry their own frames around. If you throw them off balance, they will fall hard and will not be able to get up easily. Samoans are a special case as most of them are just built like a tank. That is why there are so many playing football. However, they do not have the pleasing physique that people generally want. Black guys generally have the greatest advantage overall with physique building because they have naturally high testosterone levels without having that huge frame.

Real steroids do NOT cost that much. I will not go into pricing of illegal steroids as I don't recommend going that route. However, they are less than scripted steroids that one gets through the pharmacy in the USA. Scripted testosterone cypionate (legal with script) is $100 per bottle. If you have good insurance, you'll only pay $5-$10 per bottle. This is brand name Pfizer Testosterone...can't get any better than that. That bottle has 10ml of 200mg/ml inside. Most people will see their testosterone levels go to teenager level or above using only 200mgs per week (1ml per week). That means that each bottle lasts 10 weeks so each week costs $10. You really think that is expensive? You might say that 200mgs is not that much, but it will raise your testosterone levels up to 1200ng/dl. A guy in their 30's is likely have around 600-700ng/dl levels...if they are lucky. Levels will decline year after year until death. They can get a script for testosterone if they are 300ng/dl or below. That is why I recommend blood work as a guy in his 30's with 300ng/dl or below is NOT living a very good life. I would never recommend that anyone use anything until they get their hormone blood panel as I really feel that only those that need it should take it.

Professional Bodybuilders will use much more Testosterone per week...unhealthy amounts. They will also use a number of other illegal steroid types as well as cutting drugs. They get much better deals than you would ever get and are connected in the underground market. I am positive that most do not spend more than $500/month on steroids alone. Much of the supplements they use (more expensive than steroids) are given to them for free...sponsored. They do eat a lot of only a certain kind of food so that is the most expensive part of their program. Outside of that, it's gym membership, tanning salon and special doctors visits to monitor their health constantly. This is not a healthy lifestyle by any means. Being 310lbs at 5'8" can never be healthy. Guys that big are the ones that look fat unless their shirt is off. I don't envy that look at all. I think that simply reaching natural potential is good enough. I'll bet only .001% of people in the USA ever reach their natural physical potential as it is...maybe even less. No man reaches their ultimate physical potential at 18 years of age, despite what many Americans might think...lol
tre
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Postby fightforlove » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:24 pm

tre wrote:
fightforlove wrote:I'm not sure what my testosterone level is. My BF is 14%. I'm thin and small-boned, have some decent tone already. I want to remain lean and just get more ripped.

here's my microcycle routine:

week 1 4 x 12
week 2 3 x 8-10
week 3 4 x 6-8
week 4 5 x 5

Monday: back/bicep
Pull Up
Pull Down
Seated Curls
Dumbell Curls
Seated Row

Wednesday: Chest/tricep
Bench Press
Inclinded Bench Press
Tricep Extension
Chest Dips
Skullcrushers

Friday: Shoulders/Legs
Squats
DeadLifts
Hip Adductors
Dumbell Shoulder Lifts
Rear Deltoid Flys


I think you are switching up the routine too much. I'd start with a weight that you can do 12 times. After that first set, increase the weight. You would then shoot for 10 reps. Once that is complete, increase the weight again and shoot for 8 reps and so on. Record each days lift so you can strive to increase each workout. Your body will need to adapt to the extra weight you are lifting by adding muscle to your frame (IF your diet is right and you are resting enough). Once you actually plateau for several weeks, THEN you can switch up your routine. No reason to switch it up if you haven't plateaued.

Your workouts look fine, but you should be getting in and out of the gym within 45-60 minutes. Intense and no BS. Focus mostly on your compound movements and seek to increase the weight as often as you can. Do NOT sacrifice form though. Get the form down before trying to increase the weight you are using. For instance, you should ALWAYS have your shoulders pushed back and down in ever exercise that you perform. Back straight and chest out. If you allow your shoulders to relax and move forward, you are asking for injuries in several areas of your body.


So, should I just do 3 sets, 12-10-8, with weight increases on each set and go up even more weight next week? For example:

Squats:
12 - 150
10-160
8-170

then next time (next week) start at 160?
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Postby tre » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:50 pm

fightforlove wrote:
tre wrote:
fightforlove wrote:I'm not sure what my testosterone level is. My BF is 14%. I'm thin and small-boned, have some decent tone already. I want to remain lean and just get more ripped.

here's my microcycle routine:

week 1 4 x 12
week 2 3 x 8-10
week 3 4 x 6-8
week 4 5 x 5

Monday: back/bicep
Pull Up
Pull Down
Seated Curls
Dumbell Curls
Seated Row

Wednesday: Chest/tricep
Bench Press
Inclinded Bench Press
Tricep Extension
Chest Dips
Skullcrushers

Friday: Shoulders/Legs
Squats
DeadLifts
Hip Adductors
Dumbell Shoulder Lifts
Rear Deltoid Flys


I think you are switching up the routine too much. I'd start with a weight that you can do 12 times. After that first set, increase the weight. You would then shoot for 10 reps. Once that is complete, increase the weight again and shoot for 8 reps and so on. Record each days lift so you can strive to increase each workout. Your body will need to adapt to the extra weight you are lifting by adding muscle to your frame (IF your diet is right and you are resting enough). Once you actually plateau for several weeks, THEN you can switch up your routine. No reason to switch it up if you haven't plateaued.

Your workouts look fine, but you should be getting in and out of the gym within 45-60 minutes. Intense and no BS. Focus mostly on your compound movements and seek to increase the weight as often as you can. Do NOT sacrifice form though. Get the form down before trying to increase the weight you are using. For instance, you should ALWAYS have your shoulders pushed back and down in ever exercise that you perform. Back straight and chest out. If you allow your shoulders to relax and move forward, you are asking for injuries in several areas of your body.


So, should I just do 3 sets, 12-10-8, with weight increases on each set and go up even more weight next week? For example:

Squats:
12 - 150
10-160
8-170

then next time (next week) start at 160?


Yeah, that should work out fine. I often do 4 sets (a final set of 6 reps if I can manage it, etc) when I'm feeling strong though. I never train to failure (I train alone so I can't) but I do try to leave it all in the gym. That way, I keep getting stronger. It's important to keep correct form and not try to do TOO much though. I have gotten tendonitis, etc. previously from pushing too hard for too long without enough rest/recovery.

I have been hearing a lot of good things about the Wendler 5/3/1 workout routines as well recently. I guess the important thing to remember is that there are many workout programs that work...it comes down to consistency. I also think it's good to switch routines up now and then to shock the body into new growth. I have used a simple, well-known routine to gain a very good amount of muscle over the past 15 years. I have some health issues now (due to intense stress over the past 3+ years) and will keep my workout routine the same until those are resolved. Once they are resolved and I plateau somewhat...I'll likely switch to Wendler 5/3/1 or DC training routine. My goal is to beat my previous best physique from 5 years ago.
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Location: USA

Postby Jeremy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:45 am

There's nothing special about any of those routines. Just make sure to hit everything three times a week and pick exercises that feel right to you.
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Postby Jeremy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:49 am

There's nothing special about any of those routines. Just make sure to hit everything three times a week and pick exercises that feel right to you.

I do an upper/lower routine, lifting 6 days a week (ZOMG CNS overkill!). Seems to working fine.
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Postby sushiman » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:01 am

As people have mentioned the classic barbell lifts are a good way to build deep down strength and boost testosterone -- deadlift, squat, bench, press, row. Once you have a good foundation doing that for a year you can switch to isolated movements.

The classic diet in the golden age of bodybuilding was paleo, although they didn't have that name for it back then. It's still the best. Beef, fish, eggs, veggies, water, done. Maybe some heavy cream or cottage cheese, and real butter. Between this and barbells lifting I added around 10lb muscle and increased testosterone over 30% in one year.

Barbell lifting and paleo is what has been proven to work for 40 years now.

A lot of people will say drink a gallon of milk a day, or eat a bunch of carbohydrates. And it's true when you are young you may get big, and might not add too much fat. But you're also risking going down the road of metabolic syndrome; high triglycerides, blood sugar, central obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. The guys at bodybuilding.com have no f***ing clue on nutrition, so I wouldn't listen to those knuckleheads.
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Postby theprimebait » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:53 pm

tre wrote:
theprimebait wrote:its a FACT that all natural bodybuilders use some kind of chemical.they are liars.simple.

you can't get noticabely big without it.you may gain alot of muscle after a few yrs working out,but it will not be noticable if you have a shirt on.



No arguments there, the vast majority of natural bodybuilders DO use steroids at some point. They simply go off before it's time to test before the meet. The guys that get really big without steroids are the big-framed guys...no arguments there either. "Big" is all relative though. An ecto guy that is 6' CAN get up to 200lbs ripped without steroids. That is likely near his physical potential. You will still be able to tell that he works out unless he's wearing clothes that are way too big for him.

A big framed guy that doesn't lift weights that is 6' will be 200+ pounds without lifting. There are many variables to consider before assuming they are powerful. Many big framed guys are not strong, they do well to only carry their own frames around. If you throw them off balance, they will fall hard and will not be able to get up easily. Samoans are a special case as most of them are just built like a tank. That is why there are so many playing football. However, they do not have the pleasing physique that people generally want. Black guys generally have the greatest advantage overall with physique building because they have naturally high testosterone levels without having that huge frame.

Real steroids do NOT cost that much. I will not go into pricing of illegal steroids as I don't recommend going that route. However, they are less than scripted steroids that one gets through the pharmacy in the USA. Scripted testosterone cypionate (legal with script) is $100 per bottle. If you have good insurance, you'll only pay $5-$10 per bottle. This is brand name Pfizer Testosterone...can't get any better than that. That bottle has 10ml of 200mg/ml inside. Most people will see their testosterone levels go to teenager level or above using only 200mgs per week (1ml per week). That means that each bottle lasts 10 weeks so each week costs $10. You really think that is expensive? You might say that 200mgs is not that much, but it will raise your testosterone levels up to 1200ng/dl. A guy in their 30's is likely have around 600-700ng/dl levels...if they are lucky. Levels will decline year after year until death. They can get a script for testosterone if they are 300ng/dl or below. That is why I recommend blood work as a guy in his 30's with 300ng/dl or below is NOT living a very good life. I would never recommend that anyone use anything until they get their hormone blood panel as I really feel that only those that need it should take it.

Professional Bodybuilders will use much more Testosterone per week...unhealthy amounts. They will also use a number of other illegal steroid types as well as cutting drugs. They get much better deals than you would ever get and are connected in the underground market. I am positive that most do not spend more than $500/month on steroids alone. Much of the supplements they use (more expensive than steroids) are given to them for free...sponsored. They do eat a lot of only a certain kind of food so that is the most expensive part of their program. Outside of that, it's gym membership, tanning salon and special doctors visits to monitor their health constantly. This is not a healthy lifestyle by any means. Being 310lbs at 5'8" can never be healthy. Guys that big are the ones that look fat unless their shirt is off. I don't envy that look at all. I think that simply reaching natural potential is good enough. I'll bet only .001% of people in the USA ever reach their natural physical potential as it is...maybe even less. No man reaches their ultimate physical potential at 18 years of age, despite what many Americans might think...lol


Power is in bone density.not muscle.a skinny polynesian will KO a black guy.blacks have ectomorphic frames but are more muscular.it doesn't matter in a street fight and it also doesn't matter in pure strength.actually North europeans consistentely win strongman competitions while blacks don't.they have better upper-body strength.

muscles are for aesthetics,nothing more.

Steroids are Great if they are reliable and payable,then more power to you,I personally would love using DHT and Testosterone.more so for the behavioural and sexual advantages(Less inhibition,higher Libido and sperm QUALITY).

but I know for bone mass I could better use vitamin K 2 mk4 .I just ordered a butter oil from Green pastures and took it today.I will report my gains.within a month or so.wether I gain facial aesthetics or bone mass I'm all good.

the morons can waiste their time in the Gym.
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Postby theprimebait » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:20 pm

sushiman wrote:As people have mentioned the classic barbell lifts are a good way to build deep down strength and boost testosterone -- deadlift, squat, bench, press, row. Once you have a good foundation doing that for a year you can switch to isolated movements.

The classic diet in the golden age of bodybuilding was paleo, although they didn't have that name for it back then. It's still the best. Beef, fish, eggs, veggies, water, done. Maybe some heavy cream or cottage cheese, and real butter. Between this and barbells lifting I added around 10lb muscle and increased testosterone over 30% in one year.

Barbell lifting and paleo is what has been proven to work for 40 years now.

A lot of people will say drink a gallon of milk a day, or eat a bunch of carbohydrates. And it's true when you are young you may get big, and might not add too much fat. But you're also risking going down the road of metabolic syndrome; high triglycerides, blood sugar, central obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. The guys at bodybuilding.com have no f***ing clue on nutrition, so I wouldn't listen to those knuckleheads.


well low fat milk is extremely unhealthy,if you're downing Raw WHOLE fat milk and or other high saturated fat dairy products,there is nothing but goodness in that.

I recommend eating yoghurt to anyone.whole fat.
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Postby tre » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:15 am

theprimebait wrote:
tre wrote:
theprimebait wrote:its a FACT that all natural bodybuilders use some kind of chemical.they are liars.simple.

you can't get noticabely big without it.you may gain alot of muscle after a few yrs working out,but it will not be noticable if you have a shirt on.



No arguments there, the vast majority of natural bodybuilders DO use steroids at some point. They simply go off before it's time to test before the meet. The guys that get really big without steroids are the big-framed guys...no arguments there either. "Big" is all relative though. An ecto guy that is 6' CAN get up to 200lbs ripped without steroids. That is likely near his physical potential. You will still be able to tell that he works out unless he's wearing clothes that are way too big for him.

A big framed guy that doesn't lift weights that is 6' will be 200+ pounds without lifting. There are many variables to consider before assuming they are powerful. Many big framed guys are not strong, they do well to only carry their own frames around. If you throw them off balance, they will fall hard and will not be able to get up easily. Samoans are a special case as most of them are just built like a tank. That is why there are so many playing football. However, they do not have the pleasing physique that people generally want. Black guys generally have the greatest advantage overall with physique building because they have naturally high testosterone levels without having that huge frame.

Real steroids do NOT cost that much. I will not go into pricing of illegal steroids as I don't recommend going that route. However, they are less than scripted steroids that one gets through the pharmacy in the USA. Scripted testosterone cypionate (legal with script) is $100 per bottle. If you have good insurance, you'll only pay $5-$10 per bottle. This is brand name Pfizer Testosterone...can't get any better than that. That bottle has 10ml of 200mg/ml inside. Most people will see their testosterone levels go to teenager level or above using only 200mgs per week (1ml per week). That means that each bottle lasts 10 weeks so each week costs $10. You really think that is expensive? You might say that 200mgs is not that much, but it will raise your testosterone levels up to 1200ng/dl. A guy in their 30's is likely have around 600-700ng/dl levels...if they are lucky. Levels will decline year after year until death. They can get a script for testosterone if they are 300ng/dl or below. That is why I recommend blood work as a guy in his 30's with 300ng/dl or below is NOT living a very good life. I would never recommend that anyone use anything until they get their hormone blood panel as I really feel that only those that need it should take it.

Professional Bodybuilders will use much more Testosterone per week...unhealthy amounts. They will also use a number of other illegal steroid types as well as cutting drugs. They get much better deals than you would ever get and are connected in the underground market. I am positive that most do not spend more than $500/month on steroids alone. Much of the supplements they use (more expensive than steroids) are given to them for free...sponsored. They do eat a lot of only a certain kind of food so that is the most expensive part of their program. Outside of that, it's gym membership, tanning salon and special doctors visits to monitor their health constantly. This is not a healthy lifestyle by any means. Being 310lbs at 5'8" can never be healthy. Guys that big are the ones that look fat unless their shirt is off. I don't envy that look at all. I think that simply reaching natural potential is good enough. I'll bet only .001% of people in the USA ever reach their natural physical potential as it is...maybe even less. No man reaches their ultimate physical potential at 18 years of age, despite what many Americans might think...lol


Power is in bone density.not muscle.a skinny polynesian will KO a black guy.blacks have ectomorphic frames but are more muscular.it doesn't matter in a street fight and it also doesn't matter in pure strength.actually North europeans consistentely win strongman competitions while blacks don't.they have better upper-body strength.

muscles are for aesthetics,nothing more.

Steroids are Great if they are reliable and payable,then more power to you,I personally would love using DHT and Testosterone.more so for the behavioural and sexual advantages(Less inhibition,higher Libido and sperm QUALITY).

but I know for bone mass I could better use vitamin K 2 mk4 .I just ordered a butter oil from Green pastures and took it today.I will report my gains.within a month or so.wether I gain facial aesthetics or bone mass I'm all good.

the morons can waiste their time in the Gym.


You aren't going to grow extra bone mass through supplementation after adulthood. I don't know how people fall for these scams.

A big-boned Polynesian can only KO a black guy IF he can hit him. There is a reason you don't see Polynesian boxers and MMA fighters. They are good in football and sports that are for strength...not speed. There are plenty of big Polynesian bouncers, but they aren't getting most of the women...not by a long shot. Big-boned, heavy-set guys are not a woman's first choice, unless they big-boned heavy-set woman.

Having optimal testosterone levels doesn't make anyone a "steroid abuser". It means they will always have the testosterone levels of a 20 year old. They will maintain muscle mass and libido. They will think more clearly with less brain fog as they age. They will be able to maintain the body of a much younger person for as long as is humanly possible. If you don't think that matters at all...I don't know what to tell you...

Men that don't do weight bearing exercise at all will not be as healthy as men that do. They can't maintain a pleasing physique either. You've posted pictures of men and ALL of them show evidence of weight training with high testosterone levels. Why do you seem to be so much against it if you respect the look of these men?
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Postby Cornfed » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:27 am

tre wrote:A big-boned Polynesian can only KO a black guy IF he can hit him. There is a reason you don't see Polynesian boxers and MMA fighters.

Well, there was David Tua. Imagine if he had been a bit bigger. He would have been the greatest heavyweight ever. The reason Polynesians don't dominate in most sports is that there aren't that many of them.
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Postby tre » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:55 am

Cornfed wrote:
tre wrote:A big-boned Polynesian can only KO a black guy IF he can hit him. There is a reason you don't see Polynesian boxers and MMA fighters.

Well, there was David Tua. Imagine if he had been a bit bigger. He would have been the greatest heavyweight ever. The reason Polynesians don't dominate in most sports is that there aren't that many of them.


There are PLENTY of them in football and in nightclub security. They are strong, they are heavy and they can move weight. That is what they dominate at. They don't usually win awards for speed or agility if they are "big boned, big men". That goes for ANY big boned, big man...regardless of race. I have a smaller hawaiian friend who is pretty good at MMA. BJ Penn was great in his time. However, I wouldn't call these guys big-boned in the least. If you are big boned, you will be shorter than guys of equal weight. You will have less of a reach (punch/kick distance). You won't necessarily be any stronger either.

I'm not saying big-boned or small boned is better. I'd say medium boned would be ideal for most purposes. I just don't see any applicable advantages that a big-boned man has over a man with smaller bones. Their daughters end up being big-boned as well, which unlike men, is a curse for them. My brother in law is EXTREMELY big boned, but he's slow. He carries around 40 more lbs than I do at the same height. I can outlift him in every lift there is...easily. The reason is because I train and he doesn't. In the end, that's all that really matters...
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Postby Cornfed » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:19 pm

tre wrote:
Cornfed wrote:
tre wrote:A big-boned Polynesian can only KO a black guy IF he can hit him. There is a reason you don't see Polynesian boxers and MMA fighters.

Well, there was David Tua. Imagine if he had been a bit bigger. He would have been the greatest heavyweight ever. The reason Polynesians don't dominate in most sports is that there aren't that many of them.


There are PLENTY of them in football and in nightclub security. They are strong, they are heavy and they can move weight. That is what they dominate at. They don't usually win awards for speed or agility if they are "big boned, big men". That goes for ANY big boned, big man...regardless of race. I have a smaller hawaiian friend who is pretty good at MMA. BJ Penn was great in his time. However, I wouldn't call these guys big-boned in the least. If you are big boned, you will be shorter than guys of equal weight. You will have less of a reach (punch/kick distance). You won't necessarily be any stronger either.

I'm not saying big-boned or small boned is better. I'd say medium boned would be ideal for most purposes. I just don't see any applicable advantages that a big-boned man has over a man with smaller bones. Their daughters end up being big-boned as well, which unlike men, is a curse for them. My brother in law is EXTREMELY big boned, but he's slow. He carries around 40 more lbs than I do at the same height. I can outlift him in every lift there is...easily. The reason is because I train and he doesn't. In the end, that's all that really matters...

Incidentally, I just love David Tua so much that I must give him a plug here. He is a little man that bulked himself up by lifting weights, just like me. He has a similar fighting style to me, and if he were bigger he would be unbeatable. If only he were a little bit bigger, he would be the greatest boxer ever. Still, he managed to knock out four heavyweight champions of the world. You can't argue with that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49HmzuXu9DI[/youtube]
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Postby theprimebait » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:16 pm

since most men don't know MMA,the average man would lose against a polynesian.IDC if you know martial arts,most people don't and most people would thus lose to a polynesian.

polynesians are extremely tall and have huge frames.that is attractive to women.

and YES,vitamin K CAN increase bone density after puberty.just read the testimonials on the thread I linked.
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Postby Cornfed » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:35 am

theprimebait wrote:since most men don't know MMA,the average man would lose against a polynesian.IDC if you know martial arts,most people don't and most people would thus lose to a polynesian.

The existence of large Polynesians does seem to be a problem for those of us who aren't terribly big ourselves but consider it our divine right to get drunk and go around doing whatever the hell we like. In my experience, hitting them in the head is not a good idea as it seems to only make them angrier and hurt your hand. They are surprisingly vulnerable if you target their legs or midsection. They also seem to be vulnerable to joint manipulation, although their sheer size and strength may render this unfeasible.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:10 pm

theprimebait wrote:since most men don't know MMA,the average man would lose against a polynesian.IDC if you know martial arts,most people don't and most people would thus lose to a polynesian.

polynesians are extremely tall and have huge frames.that is attractive to women.

and YES,vitamin K CAN increase bone density after puberty.just read the testimonials on the thread I linked.


There is a lot of Polynesians in California. Lots of the Polynesian males move to Cali on football scholarships. I use to weight lift right along side them. For sure they're BIG guys. Aside from that, they mainly stuck with their own women.
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