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Would You Agree Most Expats Hate the US?

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Postby Halwick » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:59 am

zacb wrote:
Halwick wrote:
Ghost wrote:I figure it works like this. If someone really did live in the greatest country in the world - as per the propaganda - why would they ever want to leave?


The flip side question is, if the "greatest country in the world" (I'm assuming you mean the U.S.) is so bad, why are people from Asia and Latin America emigrating to this country? The U.S is a net immigration country, meaning more people arrive to the U.S. than leaving it.

In Los Angeles where there is a high percentage of Asian and Latin American people, and nearly all of them I've talked to say they LIKE it here, like the freedom, see plenty of opportunities and plan to live here permanently. When asked why they left their countries, many said they HATE their country's government, the oppression and the lack of opportunities.

Is the influx of Third-World people to the U.S., thereby turning the U.S. into a Third-World country, the reason why these Expats hate the U.S.?

I find it interesting that these same Expats who also hate Third-World people and their culture choose to live abroad in Third-World countries like Mexico, Philippines, Thailand, etc.


That is kinda a predicament. We want talent, but many people's political beliefs are WAYYYY off. It is damned if you do (our kids are not necessarily the brightest either), or another (not all immigrants are that smart). I would say this is the greatest commerce country in the world, but to say the best in every regard now is kinda overdone. Yes we have freedom from scarcity, but that is about it. Foreigners want that, and we want freedom from government. Their need for want due to short term thinking screws with their political thoughts, and translated over here. And while our government is still far ahead of many governments, I would argue that at least for tiger economies (like Latvia, Gerogia, Colombia, Thailand , and such) are on average more free than the US. Other than that the US has a far way to go, but is still going down the wrong path.


You say countries like Latvia, Georgia, Columbia, Thailand are more "free" than the US. In what respect?

I've had discussions with expats from Cuba, Vietnam, the former Soviet Union, China, Eastern Europe, and in terms of political freedom, freedom to live and work where they please, freedom of choice, freedom of speech and thought, freedom from oppression, etc., they all love the U.S. and are much happier in the U.S. than their former countries. And they are amazed that there are some Americans who hate and disrespect their own country.

According to the Heritage Foundation (www.heritage.org), using the criteria of Rule of Law (property rights, freedom from corruption); Limited Government (fiscal freedom, government spending); Regulatory Efficiency (business freedom, labor freedom, monetary freedom); and Open Markets (trade freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom), they rank the U.S much higher than the countries you stated.

In it's 2013 Economic Freedom Index, the U.S. ranks 10. Latvia 55, Georgia 21, Thailand 61. Countries ranking higher than the U.S. are Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, Chile, Mauritius, Denmark.


Getting back to the OP's statement that "Do most Expats hate the U.S.": Do these particular expats hate the U.S. because of restrictions on their personal freedom to live a bohemian or anarchy life, from using narcotics, indulging in P4P and prostitution, and engaging in Ponzi/Pyramid-based businesses and other scams?
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Postby zboy1 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:34 am

Halwick, what do you care about whether expats hate or love their country anyway? It's not like your ever going to live overseas, from what I gather about you, and your posts disagreeing with the whole notion of being "Happier Abroad."

You're on of the few on the forum, that is satisfied with life in the U.S./Anglo World. Well...good for you, and I'm glad you offer an alternative view on this forum, but why do you even care about this subject?
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Postby Halwick » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:38 am

zboy1 wrote:Halwick, what do you care about whether expats hate or love their country anyway? It's not like your ever going to live overseas, from what I gather about you, and your posts disagreeing with the whole notion of being "Happier Abroad."

You're on of the few on the forum, that is satisfied with life in the U.S./Anglo World. Well...good for you, and I'm glad you offer an alternative view on this forum, but why do you even care about this subject?


zboy1, I do find the HA's opinions and experiences interesting reading though and I've been able to glean some informative international data. This particular thread is in line with the questions from Cuban, Vietnamese and Russians expats who asked me why some Americans, especially Americans they met abroad, hate the U.S. I've been wondering the same thing.

But my last comment suggesting the reasons "expats who hate the U.S. because it restricts their bohemian/anarchy lifestyle, using narcotics, indulging in P4P, and engaging in Ponzi/Pyramid-based businesses and other scams" must be applicable in your case as evidenced by your hostile and argumentive reply. Is this what the "Happier Abroad" notion about, advocation of the above? If the shoe fits......
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Postby zboy1 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:20 am

I'm not being hostile, Halwick...I'm just curious, that's all. Your the one who seems to get hostile to anyone on this forum that suggests life maybe better overseas. I get that you're repulsed by some of the anti-American attitudes of some expats overseas, but that's their opinion, and you shouldn't really be concerned. I mean...if that's how some of us really feel about the country, who cares?

The majority of disillusioned American expats that I talk to, state a multitude of reasons for their disenchantment with the country: from the dating scene, to our dysfunctional government, to the sad state of the economy, to the problems of 'big government,' to wanting a new life in another country. The reasons are too numerous to name...

And, it's not just American expats that feel that way about their country; some Europeans and Aussies also feel disillusioned with their own countries as well. So let's not single out American expats for not being 'patriotic enough' about their own country.

I know you feel very patriotic about the USA, as I used to myself, but I can no longer stand by and profess my 'love' for the USA, when it's going down the crapper and becoming the country that it's becoming. Ladislav also gets annoyed with some of us on this forum--due to our constant negative opinions and views on the USA--as he seems obsessed with proclaiming how 'great' the USA is, just like you. I can respect that and your opinions as well, Halwick, although I disagree with the notion of just how 'great' the country is...

And trust me, I'm not a druggie, sex-fiend, bohemian or money-making scammer that you suggest I am. Far from it, actually. ...
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Postby tre » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:50 pm

A patriot is a lover a freedom....that's it. US Citizens are Patriots when they love true freedom. Being a Patriot also means to be against those seeking to take their freedoms away...INCLUDING their own government. While the USA is definitely more free than many of the places we seek to escape to, we don't have spend every day watching OUR country go down the toilet. We will pay our taxes (like we have a choice in the matter) and vote, while hoping for a change. Unfortunately, no good change is likely to happen without a serious fall. There are too many idiots that are happy and content with the way things are in the states. They support stupid policies that are in direct conflict with true freedom. These people are NOT true Patriots...they have sided with the enemy of freedom.

Many of us that want to leave don't "hate" the USA. We just hate the direction it's headed, we hate the corrupt government and the idiots that support them...
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Postby Winston » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:33 pm

You should go to a foreign country and ask the Expats themselves about this. You will find that they are a variety too. Not all of them are awakened about America. Some are just assholes who were bored in America or who were not tolerated by people in their country.

It also depends on the country. The expats in the Philippines are different from Taiwan, China or Europe. Each culture attracts a certain type of expat. Asia attracts mostly soft white guys (such as Rock) who don't fit into the arrogant aggressive behavior of the West, and who have a fascination with Asian culture and a fetish for Asian women. I'm shocked that in Taiwan, so many white guys act more Taiwanese than white.
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Postby tre » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Winston wrote:You should go to a foreign country and ask the Expats themselves about this. You will find that they are a variety too. Not all of them are awakened about America. Some are just assholes who were bored in America or who were not tolerated by people in their country.

It also depends on the country. The expats in the Philippines are different from Taiwan, China or Europe. Each culture attracts a certain type of expat. Asia attracts mostly soft white guys (such as Rock) who don't fit into the arrogant aggressive behavior of the West, and who have a fascination with Asian culture and a fetish for Asian women. I'm shocked that in Taiwan, so many white guys act more Taiwanese than white.



I was under the impression that Rock was more attracted to White women? Regardless, he seems to be more interested in Asian Culture and the improved way of life. That is what I am interested in as well. These are the types of Expats (quite of few of them here) that I'd be interested in seeing when I finally go abroad. Elitist "Talent" Expats are often cancer as far as I am concerned. I'd rather kick them down a few notches than discuss anything with them. The extended "sex vacation" Expats are pathetic...I have nothing in common with them. The latter two Expat types make us look bad and make it harder for us going abroad for better reasons...
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Postby Halwick » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:42 pm

zboy1 wrote:I'm not being hostile, Halwick...I'm just curious, that's all. Your the one who seems to get hostile to anyone on this forum that suggests life maybe better overseas. I get that you're repulsed by some of the anti-American attitudes of some expats overseas, but that's their opinion, and you shouldn't really be concerned. I mean...if that's how some of us really feel about the country, who cares?

The majority of disillusioned American expats that I talk to, state a multitude of reasons for their disenchantment with the country: from the dating scene, to our dysfunctional government, to the sad state of the economy, to the problems of 'big government,' to wanting a new life in another country. The reasons are too numerous to name...

And, it's not just American expats that feel that way about their country; some Europeans and Aussies also feel disillusioned with their own countries as well. So let's not single out American expats for not being 'patriotic enough' about their own country.

I know you feel very patriotic about the USA, as I used to myself, but I can no longer stand by and profess my 'love' for the USA, when it's going down the crapper and becoming the country that it's becoming. Ladislav also gets annoyed with some of us on this forum--due to our constant negative opinions and views on the USA--as he seems obsessed with proclaiming how 'great' the USA is, just like you. I can respect that and your opinions as well, Halwick, although I disagree with the notion of just how 'great' the country is...

And trust me, I'm not a druggie, sex-fiend, bohemian or money-making scammer that you suggest I am. Far from it, actually. ...


Okay, I see your point about being dissatisfied, disillusioned and unhappy about the U.S. And you've made an effort to learn a foreign language, studied the culture and moved to the foreign country.....all of which I applaud and respect.

But then you go on anti-U.S. rants (why no Anti-China or Anti-Russian rants? They act just as much in their own self interest as any country) and that bothers me because what every American expat does, especially when spouting anti-U.S. rhetoric, is a reflection on MY country and its reputation. I'm sure there are European/UK/Australian/New Zealand citizens feel the same way when their expats spouting similar rants against their country.

When I did my travelling abroad many years ago, I was often questioned why some Americans are so against their own country. When I asked what they thought of those Americans, and they told me they laughed at them and held them in very low regard as they would anyone who is against their very own country.

It's interesting how many immigrants from Communist countries come to the U.S. and appreciate the personal freedom and liberties the U.S. offers them. The money and job opportunities aren't the only reason they come to the U.S. And I find it even more interesting that THEY become irritated, more so than Americans, whenever anyone disses their adopted country.

But I've seen many anti-U.S. Mongers get into trouble with the local authorities abroad, have their personal freedoms violated and taken away, then go crying to the U.S. embassy to bail them. Some even regret renouncing their U.S. citizenship after such experiences. You can't have it both ways.

Let me ask you something: Assuming you are a U.S. citizen and feeling the way you do about the U.S., have YOU renounced your U.S. citizenship? If not, WHY NOT?

If you have, then GOOD for you and I respect your decision and you can rant all you want against the U.S. I won't judge you as a contemptible hypocrite.

[By the way, I find your and other's comments and perspectives about other countries, especially on China, thoughtful, interesting and entertaining, which is why I like this website and read it.]
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Postby zacb » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:02 am

Halwick wrote:
zboy1 wrote:I'm not being hostile, Halwick...I'm just curious, that's all. Your the one who seems to get hostile to anyone on this forum that suggests life maybe better overseas. I get that you're repulsed by some of the anti-American attitudes of some expats overseas, but that's their opinion, and you shouldn't really be concerned. I mean...if that's how some of us really feel about the country, who cares?

The majority of disillusioned American expats that I talk to, state a multitude of reasons for their disenchantment with the country: from the dating scene, to our dysfunctional government, to the sad state of the economy, to the problems of 'big government,' to wanting a new life in another country. The reasons are too numerous to name...

And, it's not just American expats that feel that way about their country; some Europeans and Aussies also feel disillusioned with their own countries as well. So let's not single out American expats for not being 'patriotic enough' about their own country.

I know you feel very patriotic about the USA, as I used to myself, but I can no longer stand by and profess my 'love' for the USA, when it's going down the crapper and becoming the country that it's becoming. Ladislav also gets annoyed with some of us on this forum--due to our constant negative opinions and views on the USA--as he seems obsessed with proclaiming how 'great' the USA is, just like you. I can respect that and your opinions as well, Halwick, although I disagree with the notion of just how 'great' the country is...

And trust me, I'm not a druggie, sex-fiend, bohemian or money-making scammer that you suggest I am. Far from it, actually. ...


Okay, I see your point about being dissatisfied, disillusioned and unhappy about the U.S. And you've made an effort to learn a foreign language, studied the culture and moved to the foreign country.....all of which I applaud and respect.

But then you go on anti-U.S. rants (why no Anti-China or Anti-Russian rants? They act just as much in their own self interest as any country) and that bothers me because what every American expat does, especially when spouting anti-U.S. rhetoric, is a reflection on MY country and its reputation. I'm sure there are European/UK/Australian/New Zealand citizens feel the same way when their expats spouting similar rants against their country.

When I did my travelling abroad many years ago, I was often questioned why some Americans are so against their own country. When I asked what they thought of those Americans, and they told me they laughed at them and held them in very low regard as they would anyone who is against their very own country.

It's interesting how many immigrants from Communist countries come to the U.S. and appreciate the personal freedom and liberties the U.S. offers them. The money and job opportunities aren't the only reason they come to the U.S. And I find it even more interesting that THEY become irritated, more so than Americans, whenever anyone disses their adopted country.

But I've seen many anti-U.S. Mongers get into trouble with the local authorities abroad, have their personal freedoms violated and taken away, then go crying to the U.S. embassy to bail them. Some even regret renouncing their U.S. citizenship after such experiences. You can't have it both ways.

Let me ask you something: Assuming you are a U.S. citizen and feeling the way you do about the U.S., have YOU renounced your U.S. citizenship? If not, WHY NOT?

If you have, then GOOD for you and I respect your decision and you can rant all you want against the U.S. I won't judge you as a contemptible hypocrite.

[By the way, I find your and other's comments and perspectives about other countries, especially on China, thoughtful, interesting and entertaining, which is why I like this website and read it.]


I don't know who you are specifically referring to, but I will take a shot at it. In some ways, at least economically, Russia and China are actually more intelligent than the West. It does not mean they are good at other things, just merely at the issues at hand. There are plenty to criticize these respective governments for (such as shady dealings, and over militarism in the case of Russia) , but having said all that, here is my main qualm: most claims to power are illegitimate, and thus most governments are illegitimate in one form or another. The nation state should not exist. We could make an argument for or against city states, but that is not my argument. My point is that whether it is Russia and the US or Israel or Palestine, nationalism is nothing but a bunch of chest thumping and prick waving. If your country has merit (like it produces superior culture like some in Europe used to or have sound governmental policies), great, that should be celebrated. But the trend has seemed to shift from debate over the beautiful, to the profane, and a general downtrend in freedom. So basically, when I speak for myself, I speak as a free market anarchist, and none else.
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