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A good essay about Japanese women.

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A good essay about Japanese women.

Postby onethousandknives » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:21 pm

So, this post by a lady who went to Japan and got frustrated at her lack of dating success got posted here. I read some of the comments. The best was a very long one.

http://www.vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/
So here's the post by the lady. The response I liked best, though, very very long.

3 years late to a debate won’t stop me for putting in my two cents :)

Japanese guys do not find western women attractive. I am rare male gaijin that has several very close Japanese male friends. It took a long time to win their trust and inner circle. They speak to me like they would speak to their close Japanese friends. It’s not that they are just too shy, polite, or “I have no chance so why botherâ€￾. That’s their Japanese way of saying “not interestedâ€￾. Japanese are unique in that they lie to each other all the time with compliments. It’s their way of telling you they don’t want you but yet do not wish to hurt your feelings directly. 50% of the time a Japanese says “haiâ€￾ it really means “noâ€￾ or a negative. 70% of the time a Japanese guy says “I’m too shyâ€￾ or “I have no chanceâ€￾ it means “I’m not interestedâ€￾.

Then there is situation to consider where Japanese women are not dating as much as other cultures because perhaps half of eligible men don’t date. So there are a lot of guys who don’t want you simply because they don’t/can’t want ANY woman (for whatever reason). That leaves the men who want to date. And my Japanese male friends are the types that Japanese women desire. They are surrounded by amazing Japanese women. Their perspective is much like an old saying in America: “Why go out for hamburger when I can have steak at homeâ€￾. It’s a country that (right or wrong) seems to value petite, very slim, kawaii, demure, shy…all the things most western women are not. In a country where perhaps half adult men don’t have a woman, why would the other half go with you when they are highly sought after by the Japanese women who want to date? And given the fact you’d never act like Japanese women to get a man… that doesn’t leave much room for you at the dating table. There seems to be a stubbornness in westerners that Japan isn’t coming around to their ways. Why bother dating western women when Japanese women are kind of awesome while also already knowing the culture perfectly?

And Japanese women are not submissive “sucky suckyâ€￾ like many westerners (especially western women) arrogantly believe. Western women only see certain behavior and certain voice pitch and go “no way…never…I have too much dignity.â€￾ But is it dignity? In America a female has sort of become a new version of a guy or a dude. Many couples in America called each other dude at some point especially early on dating. What’s so dignified about that compared with the way you see Japanese women go about romancing and dating?

And who is the center of attention in Japan? Women. It’s not men. Who creates world economies before the rest of the world catches on? Japanese women. Who are some of the world’s best solo female travelers? Japanese women. Who takes the paycheck and controls home finance? Who controls the home? Who gets the child should their be separation? Japan’s entire culture is actually based around Japanese women. It’s called s0ft-power in military and business strategy. To simply call it passive aggressive is juvenile and not at all accurate. Yet western women see Japanese women as submissive and not quite equal to western women. They see Japanese women dating and only see “that’s kind of patheticâ€￾. They never seem to grasp that Japanese women are in total control of dating and how things will progress. They never see that many western guys are quick to pick up on this and go along with Japanese culture rather than put a hand up and go “no way…neverâ€￾. Only drunken Japanese women go out to drunken gaijin bars and spread legs. And so do American women in America and all over. Bar flys are not unique to any nation or gender. But to date a Japanese woman outside of the party scene requires being a bit of Japanese or at least trying. A western woman would rather drown in tea than pour tea for a man. Yet it never occurs to them that nearly everything in Japan is ceremonial. Things are rarely what they appear to be from the eyes of foreigner no matter if they’ve put in a decade with “I KNOW Japanâ€￾ confidence. Ceremony is in every detail of Japanese life to the point they don’t even realize it. Just leaving and coming back has ceremonial words that are rarely thought about as much as just uttered due to tradition ingrained. And this low level ceremony includes dating. If a japanese woman is doing something a western woman would not approve of, it typically is the exact opposite of what western women think is going on. If there is a power play, it is the man getting played. It is the man taking backseat. Japanese women will make all decisions as to how things proceed. Men in the west enjoy a greater control of how dating goes as well as relationships. Rarely is a woman put first in the west when dating or becoming closer. She is usually the one twisting harder to make things work to please him emotionally or keep him interested. Typically does what he wants to do. Japanese women please in very simply ways that honestly don’t require as much submission as western women believe. Making bento box or sewing a new date’s button is ceremonial as much as doing to be nice. It’s to find out more about him and how he handles himself. Pouring beer when he can easily do it himself is not an act of submission. So is some of the high-pitched kawaii and giggling. It’s all a test. And it’s also a power play. If he accepts his role in it, she takes her place as center of attention. If he doesn’t she will likely move on. And boy, can a Japanese woman move on! (It’s why many gaijin consider Japanese to be cold down deep). Japan is a place where I almost feel sorry for Japanese men. They may be leaders in titles but they aren’t really. They are not coddled to by their women (a BIG myth many dopey gaijin learn the hard way over time).

I could go into NYC any night of the week, buy drinks, be friendly, and have sex. And meet a quality female not a bar fly. That’s not the case in Japan. It is VERY hard to get a quality woman into bed with a 3 date rule or even a 10. It’s not as if western women are more virtuous than Japanese women. They are pretty free and not hard to get into bed is the truth. Many have a 3 date rule that would have utterly shocked their grandmothers. This notion that Japanese women are easier than western women I’m sure as been perpetuated by western women as much as anyone yet see no hypocrisy their judgement. This blogger likely has had casual sex back in America and probably has friends who has had sexual escapades that required nothing more than a guy buying a few rounds. Western women are perhaps the easiest is the honest truth yet many are quick to see Asian girls as the one being that way. NOT true at all. The gaijin who comes to Japan and doesn’t drink or have something a bit interesting going is going to be one LONELY gaijin. More gaijin come to Japan and don’t get laid than do.

Western women refuse to play along in Japan’s ceremony. Ceremony is just ingrained so much Japanese don’t even realize it. Everything is ceremony. That’s how they socialize and find a spot in life. There are many things a western man has to do right if he expects to kiss a Japanese woman. Bar encounters don’t count. That can be done anywhere in the world. Drunk does not qualify as dating. It’s drunk. It’s viking. It works for men and women. But if you want to date a Japanese woman you had better leave your western guy routine back home or the hotel. Many western guys who don’t come to drink like a viking with Japanese female vikings find themselves scratching their heads with “what did I do wrong?â€￾. Well, the smart ones learn that being Japanese is something worth a try. To have success having a meaningful relationship with a japanese women requires an honorable attempt at their cultural ways. They don’t mind the mistakes or mishaps as long as they see a decent attempt. I would suggest western women play along a bit like Japanese woman would do. They might start pissing off Japanese women since they could be quite good at it with the added flavor of foreign spice tossed in.

Finally, I’ll mention the main point (and should have rather than this LONG comment)… Japanese women. They’re not the best, but nobody else is better. It is a harsh truth that must be said more. For too long western women have been seen as the best. It is simply not true. That myth should begin to fade. The evidence is overwhelming.

I feel the most important part of this essay...
Japanese women are known the world around by global economists to be cosmo, cultured, fashionable, global minded, trend setters, and well rounded. Tokyo women are FAR more cultured, graceful, well rounded, than the women of any major western city especially America. It’s not even close. If you toss in a touch of redneck, ghetto, hip hop, latino, goofy, large, clueless about the world outside of their area…you get a large percentage of very unimpressive western women. Japanese women are studied by all major corporations in the world. Their impact on fashion, media, food, tech is second to no other female demographic. Most New York women have no idea that some “newâ€￾ trend came right out of Japan 3-5 years prior. Japanese women create a world economy without even realizing it. They often are the ones who make ideas/products mainstream before anyone else in the world. Most can draw, sing, dance, play a musical instrument while they are adamant they cannot or just so bad at it. They have an amazing appreciation of music, art, culture, current events. They are very creative. They are interested in other people. Japanese women are extremely polite, gracious, and keep themselves as well as any woman on the planet. They are the cleanest women on the planet that’s for sure! All of these qualities are not just valued in relationships but also in business. Many cultures have embraced gruff, vulgar, mediocre. Many western women are like this. It’s not attractive in Japan at all. Japan is unique in this way even amongst Asians.

We could have this debate forever but the cold hard reality is many western women are not as attractive as they think they are while not properly recognizing just how attractive Japanese women are on many levels. They only hear the high pitched voice, see the “kawaiiâ€￾, notice the bows and shy demure. They refuse to try and behave as Japanese women do in the Japanese dating scene. It’s Japan…â€￾when in Romeâ€￾. The comments prove that they believe many western guys in asia are losers and thus the asian women with them must be too or stupid or clueless. What if you were to date one of these guys in Asia and go along for their ride? Maybe you’d see a side of them you never would allow back home. Maybe you’d realize just how shallow…and overrated you actually are. But perhaps it hurts too much to realize these guys get a level playing field here and the idea of dating you instead of a Japanese woman is ludicrous to them?

Finally, I know western women who date well in Japan. Why? They’re up for changing. They’re not hypersensitive to doing things that are seen as submissive in the west. Adapting. It’s not selling out. It’s not giving in. It’s living within a culture that recognizes things that the west does not. Western women often have to act “dudeâ€￾ in the west to be with a guy initially. Is that really better? Isn’t it just another form of flirting which people have to do if they are to meet someone? As a western man in Japan, you have to play along and be polite, bow, show deference if you expect to survive outside the bars of Roppongi. If you show no regard for Japanese etiquette you’ll be frozen out in a second by a Japanese woman. It doesn’t come natural but you will have to do it if you want to date a Japanese woman. And if you refuse to go along with a culture’s way…you will lose out. If you’re the one in Japan who wants nothing to do with the Japanese way of dating, flirting, romancing…then you’ll be the one looking outside in.


I found it interesting.
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Postby mguy » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:58 pm

My cousin is marrying a Japanese girl. He is 25 Fil-Am ESL teacher in Japan. Excited for the wedding!

Excellent article.

The same thing applies to Philippines with the white girls running around here. I don't think they understand that in Asia. Asian men ask: why would we date you?

We have the best selection of girls here.. why o why should we date you Ms. foreign girl? Then these girls think that they are superior, that people want them.

No.. no. no.. the real reason you are alone in a club.. forced to interact with other expats is that your value here is pretty low. We are curious about you, but seriously, we have sushi here and we prefer it over hamburger.
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Postby S_Parc » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:29 am

Except for the getting laid in NYC by buying an AW b*tch a few drinks (since countless NYC gals play that game to get guys to pay for their meals), I agree with everything else.
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Postby S_Parc » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:32 am

mguy wrote:but seriously, we have sushi here and we prefer it over hamburger.


They're more like spam than hamburgers because I've done sushi w/ burgers & it's the best of east & west :)

Spam, however, is simply gross & despicable.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
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Postby onethousandknives » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:19 am

S_Parc wrote:
mguy wrote:but seriously, we have sushi here and we prefer it over hamburger.


They're more like spam than hamburgers because I've done sushi w/ burgers & it's the best of east & west :)

Spam, however, is simply gross & despicable.


Spam is actually really good if you cook it. Just as good as ham.
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Postby djfourmoney » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:35 am

onethousandknives wrote:
S_Parc wrote:
mguy wrote:but seriously, we have sushi here and we prefer it over hamburger.


They're more like spam than hamburgers because I've done sushi w/ burgers & it's the best of east & west :)

Spam, however, is simply gross & despicable.


Spam is actually really good if you cook it. Just as good as ham.


Correct White People try to clown you about SPAM because the majority of them were not forced to eat it. But I knew more than a few White families who struggled a bit but tried to hide it and cooked SPAM for dinner for us kids....
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Postby onethousandknives » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:21 am

djfourmoney wrote:
onethousandknives wrote:
S_Parc wrote:
mguy wrote:but seriously, we have sushi here and we prefer it over hamburger.


They're more like spam than hamburgers because I've done sushi w/ burgers & it's the best of east & west :)

Spam, however, is simply gross & despicable.


Spam is actually really good if you cook it. Just as good as ham.


Correct White People try to clown you about SPAM because the majority of them were not forced to eat it. But I knew more than a few White families who struggled a bit but tried to hide it and cooked SPAM for dinner for us kids....


Well, it's really popular in Hawaii. I'm white, though, and the rest of my family won't eat it. But fry up some spam with eggs, good stuff. I wanna try making fried rice and uh...those Hawaiian things that are rice, spam, and nori rolls. Maybe eggs, too? Like a breakfast nori roll.

I also don't buy real spam, I buy the knockoff that's actually more like Treet and not Spam. Cost difference is like $1 per can vs $2 and change.
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Postby xiongmao » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Blah, blah blah. Japanese guys go for a definite "look". Some Thai girls have mastered it and do well in the Japanese-only massage places and Karaoke bars. I also like these girls, but they have little interest in gaijins.
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