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The Biggest Challenge to Happier Abroad: JOB

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

How do you earn abroad?

Live on saved cash
2
33%
Online job
2
33%
Professional job-local
0
No votes
Business owner
2
33%
 
Total votes : 6

The Biggest Challenge to Happier Abroad: JOB

Postby TopSpruce » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:29 am

Lets say you find a nice country you want to live in ....Brazil, Ukraine, the Philippines, Uganda...whatever.

What do all great countries have in common? They pay low wages.
Any country with beautiful, friendly, and feminine woman is going to have low wages. As soon as their wages rise, the place is no longer worth living in as society quickly degenerates.

Now, how can you make a good living in these places?

Lets break down the options:


First up, you can get a cushy expat job in finance. But getting this kind of job is very hard and less and less likely these days. In Russia, most expat jobs are being phased out and the same is starting to happen in China. These kinds of jobs are usually temporary and unpredictable. Not a long term solution to happier abroad.

1. Save up money before going to you chosen country

Get a good job, save up money, and then leave. Live off your retirement money.

This requires massive upfront investment. Even if you have a high paying job, this will require many years of schooling, training, and working to save up enough.

It is only worth it if you somewhat enjoy life in the West and moving abroad is just a little boost.

Some have unrealistic fantasies about moving abroad and don't realize how much their present lives actually suck. I have one friend who is in med school who is living in the future while neglecting the present. One day it'll all be worth it, he tells me. I've met doctors who told me they used to think that way but realized it was a mistake. "I realize that spending some time to go out an meet women and practice conversing with them is so much more rewarding than hoping to impress them with an MD." said one acquaintance of mine.

2. Start your own business
Takes a decent amount of start up cash and more importantly a good business idea and the skills to pull it off.
Looks appealing, but what business can you start in 2nd tier brazil? Or provincial Ukraine?
Some people make it rich by starting flower selling businesses or newspapers....but most go bankrupt.
This route usually appeals to those who enjoy a lot of risk taking and love business. For them, its worth it to take the chance to fail because they love business so much.


3. Online work

I have a buddy doing call center work and getting laid left and right. He likes his work and he likes being location independent.

The problem is that with the increasing competition in this market, salaries will steadily decrease.

Customer service reps and computer programmers from the USA can do work online.....but so can people from India, Russia, Brazil, and China. As the market gets flooded with highly skilled, low paid workers the average salary will drop. The only thing to do is to ensure you remain top skilled. A BS in Computer Sciences (degree can be earned online) and keeping up with the current languages is a must,

The other problem is whether this type of work appeals. Its usually sitting at home in front of a screen for hours at a time. No interactiion with other human beings.

4. Professional jobs in country

Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Biologist/Chemist, etc.
These are all reasonable well paid. You can do your education in country by studying at a local university (best to learn the language first, but english language courses are more and more common).
These jobs allow you to fully integrate into society and give you the chance to make a social circle and meet cute girls!
Locals will respect you more when you can list a traditional high status job. Many of these jobs (especially medical and legal) offer great access to society and constant social interaction. In these professions you can run your own small business and expand if you have the skills and enough luck.

The downside? Salary. You only make a little bit better money than the locals. For example, in Ukraine the average salary is around 300 dollars a month. My friend works as a manager at an engineering company and makes 900 dollars a month. Well, that may be 3x the average wage...but its not much. A programmer working from home and pull 30,000+ dollars a year while the engineer/doctor/lawyer working full time locally will make around 10,000.

So, a lot more fun job, more social interaction, more prestige and access to society.....but much less money.




Well, life is a series of compromises.
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Postby tre » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:49 am

It would be nice to find a good online source of income. There are several recommended avenues here, but I believe that the best ones are not shared for obvious reasons. If you want to make good money online, you are going to have to have a niche idea or some skills that were developed over several years.

If you are not already a doctor, engineer, etc. then I don't think it would be wise to go about getting the education and experience UNLESS you are in your early twenties. If you are 30+ years old, you have missed the boat on those types of careers. By the time you'd graduate and get experience, you'd be over 40 and you STILL wouldn't have near the experience level of someone that was an engineer, etc. by 24 years of age. Many countries already HAVE local engineers that they can pay FAR LESS than engineers currently make in the USA. They aren't going to hire you unless you are something special and can offer something that local talent cannot.

Outside of making money online, the next best thing is teaching. One can teach English with a BA. Some countries allow that BA to be in anything...doesn't matter. Other countries want a BA in something applicable. One can also teach at International Schools, but this will require a BA in Education, 2 years of full-time teaching experience as well as a state teaching certificate. International School teachers will make more $$ than English teachers and will have more opportunities in a greater number of countries. However, it also requires specific schooling as well as years (and proof) of applicable experience.

I plan to be an International School Teacher, but I'll also be thinking of ways to make $$ online. I have several years before I'll be able to live abroad (I have years of schooling and experience left to acquire), so plenty of time to brainstorm and work...
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SEO Writing

Postby GenYguy » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:11 am

I don't know if you saw my thread OP, but here it is. I recommend you check it out to see just where I was coming from, I was in one of the worst places a person could be, all I had going for me is that I can live with my parents while I lay the groundwork for supporting myself. http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

I'm only 20 years old, I don't have a college degree, I have never had a traditional job, and I am well on my way to making +$1500 a month from SEO writing. I started SEO writing two months ago with no prior experience or training. Voice of Reason posted this in the thread, I followed up with it and it works if you follow everything in it to the letter. http://www.seanogle.com/guest-posts/seo ... -beginners

The author of that article, Kevin Cole, is also 20 years old, supporting himself from SEO writing. He currently lives independently in Florida. He branched out from SEO writing to outsourcing his articles (my plan also) and creating passive income from personal development ebooks and now personal coaching.

I can't really talk the talk since I haven't walked the walk yet and moved to the Philippines, but I am determined that this will be my path to freedom. I'm still updating my thread with new things I learn about SEO writing, so if you want to give it a try (and if you want to live in a cheaper country like the Philippines then I strongly recommend you do SEO writing, part time at least) then I recommend you check out the later posts in the thread where I've posted other helpful links to become a better writer.

Startup costs: for me it was only $10 for the domain name of my website ($10 per year per domain). I got free hosting for my website my first month from a coupon, so it would normally be about $18 to get setup. $8 a month to run your website and any other websites you want to make.

Yes, I think any native English speaking American with half decent writing abilities can do SEO writing if they put in the necessary work. SEO writing isn't difficult, but it is work, but that's why people get paid for it...

What's it like? It's great. I love being on the computer though. If you want to though you can do research for articles in books if that's your thing, lol, it's not mine. I can write articles while listening to my favorite music and doing other things I like to do online. You have no boss, you are your own boss. There's no "job security" concerns. You work with several clients, and if you lose one you can find more. There will always be a need for writers, so if you get writing experience you will be more valuable to everyone who is looking for content writers.. even magazines. You set the rates you feel you deserve. Charge what you feel you're worth, in my opinion, I think a beginner should start with $30 per individual article 400-500 words, and offer special rates for bulk orders (you're more likely to get work this way I've found). Make yourself appear valuable and still offer affordable rates for US clients. My rates are a good middle ground and once I add more writing samples to my site I may increase them.

You get paid 99 percent of the time via PayPal. This means you can have clients in the US and live anywhere you want, true freedom and location independence.
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Re: The Biggest Challenge to Happier Abroad: JOB

Postby TopSpruce » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Being in my 20s, I think I'm going for the professional career.
If I was going to do the online thing I'd get a comp sci degree and work from home.

However, I don't like computer work to much...not much of a chance to meet people or move around.
Also, I'm worried that the rise of all these young programmers from India/China/etc will provide fierce competition.

The SEO stuff looks cool, but don't know if I see myself doing that for the next 50 years.
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Re: The Biggest Challenge to Happier Abroad: JOB

Postby GenYguy » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:03 pm

TopSpruce wrote:Being in my 20s, I think I'm going for the professional career.
If I was going to do the online thing I'd get a comp sci degree and work from home.

However, I don't like computer work to much...not much of a chance to meet people or move around.
Also, I'm worried that the rise of all these young programmers from India/China/etc will provide fierce competition.

The SEO stuff looks cool, but don't know if I see myself doing that for the next 50 years.


Well if school is for you then that's cool, it wasn't for me.

The great thing about SEO writing is that it isn't a job, you can set your own hours and not have to worry about pleasing a boss like I assume you would if you were going to put a comp sci degree to use. You would still be using that degree for a real job right? Even if you could work from home you'd have to please an employer. With SEO writing you can have several clients so you have more options than a normal job. If you lose your job it sucks, but if you lose one client it's not a big deal.

With online work you can always work on a laptop and take it with you and use it whenever you have the opportunity, like on a train or bus, etc. And me personally I like to keep work and social life separate. Mixing them only creates problems. :P

Well I had to deal with competition from decent writers who were doing the same work I was for less, even for $5 or less. There are good writers doing what I do for much less. And I STILL got a lot of work, enough for me to make a decent living.

Who knows if SEO writing will be around for 50 years, but I know in 50 years there will still be a need for writers, and I'm getting good experience writing. And to be fair, I can't see hardly any jobs that exist now being around for 50 years from now lol. Gotta think like it's the 21st century man lol.
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Postby Ghost » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:11 am

I came to China with an English teaching job in hand. That's my plan. The only thing I don't like is the year-long commitment most schools require, although I understand why they do it. Other than that, once I return home after my first year abroad, I will pick up my freelance and novel writing again and then gradually get into SEO writing. Soon I'm going to sign up for a revenue share article writing site because I have content that will likely go to waste otherwise. That will take insanely long to build up anyway, might as well do it soon.

So the answer is yes and no. EFL is still easy to get into and is a good back up plan. So technically a job is not a huge issue, unless you want a "real" job...
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Postby xiongmao » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:45 am

Yes, JOB is indeed the biggest hurdle, with getting long term visas the second.

This year I lived abroad on my online income. Next year I'll rely on my savings more, although I do have one major online money making idea to work on. This time I've also packed a couple of books to help prep me for taking the CELTA.

If I decide to settle down with a female, then I'll find a local job in Asia. The problem is that if you're interested in dating, then once you have a job you'll not have much time to meet ladies, although if you're smart you can find a job that allows you to also meet ladies :) And of course a job is a major commitment.

Another plan I have is just to return to farangland for a while, live a frugal life for 3-4 years then I'd be pretty much set up to live in somewhere like Pattaya for years.

While I was in Asia the UK government raised the retirement age to 68. So life is more like a marathon now than a sprint. I'd encourage more guys to have a break from working, otherwise you'll burn out by 50.
In February 2013 I quit my boring job and now I'm Happier Abroad...
Do YOU want to date beautiful foreign women? Find out which country's women are best for you, and which dating site to look for them on!
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JOB? NO! DIY!

Postby djfourmoney » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:48 pm

We have been conditioned to believe that its easier to work for others. Let them do the "thinking" for us, while we do a mind numbing drop for 8 hours. Only to complain about that mind-numbing jobs or that unethical job.

This is what prevents men from considering becoming an expat and its also the general theme running under expat forums. blogs and podcast.

Those with fixed incomes just have to get over the concern that much of the world is a backwater compared to the US, which is ridiculous to start with.

To get a job overseas means one of two routes you must take.

1) Learn whatever language is spoken in your destination of choice.

I considered working for DHL in Germany but only could get a job that required English in Czech Republic. I would still be moving in that direction but its been months since I have looked to see if that position was posted again.

Frankly I don't see the value in learning German. In Austria they speak a different dialect, which doesn't completely translate over.

2) Get a degree in something that's transferable. This usually means in the STEM categories or gaining experience in import/export.

Without any of these, you'll find it challenging anywhere but many Central America. Where even an SAE Certification for Master Auto Mechanic would put you at the front of the line for teaching mechanics in a local Trade School. If you have a few years of IT under your belt, its possible you could teach those classes as well.

I have a hard time believing people have not a thought in there head or a creative bone in their body; they are just scared they will fail.
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Postby HouseMD » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:49 pm

My only comment is in reference to your MD friend. Becoming an MD for women is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. It's practically USDA certified Grade AAA dumbassery. You can get money in easier ways, and the sort of money medicine nets you isn't enough to set you apart much in the West. A few 100k spent abroad, on the other hand...

Even the president of the Philippines earns a fraction of what a US surgeon males.
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Re: JOB? NO! DIY!

Postby TopSpruce » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:51 pm

djfourmoney wrote:We have been conditioned to believe that its easier to work for others. Let them do the "thinking" for us, while we do a mind numbing drop for 8 hours. Only to complain about that mind-numbing jobs or that unethical job.

This is what prevents men from considering becoming an expat and its also the general theme running under expat forums. blogs and podcast.

Those with fixed incomes just have to get over the concern that much of the world is a backwater compared to the US, which is ridiculous to start with.

To get a job overseas means one of two routes you must take.

1) Learn whatever language is spoken in your destination of choice.

I considered working for DHL in Germany but only could get a job that required English in Czech Republic. I would still be moving in that direction but its been months since I have looked to see if that position was posted again.

Frankly I don't see the value in learning German. In Austria they speak a different dialect, which doesn't completely translate over.

2) Get a degree in something that's transferable. This usually means in the STEM categories or gaining experience in import/export.

Without any of these, you'll find it challenging anywhere but many Central America. Where even an SAE Certification for Master Auto Mechanic would put you at the front of the line for teaching mechanics in a local Trade School. If you have a few years of IT under your belt, its possible you could teach those classes as well.

I have a hard time believing people have not a thought in there head or a creative bone in their body; they are just scared they will fail.


Well, the fact is most businesses fail.

It would suck to start a family and then go bankrupt and get divorced because of the financial stress.
The biggest cause of divorces is financial stress.

So, I think starting your own business is a good idea in the STEM field. You have knowledge in a field thats in demand and can have a stable business.


------------------

HouseMD wrote:My only comment is in reference to your MD friend. Becoming an MD for women is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. It's practically USDA certified Grade AAA dumbassery. You can get money in easier ways, and the sort of money medicine nets you isn't enough to set you apart much in the West. A few 100k spent abroad, on the other hand...

Even the president of the Philippines earns a fraction of what a US surgeon males.


10,000 dollars earned abroad while living there long term and being fluent in language culture >>>>>>> hundreds of thousands spent abroad

Prostitutes and very low class girls will be impressed with money. Any decent Ukrainian girl or a good Catholic Filipina of middle class upbringing will prefer their own nationality, or at the very least someone living there long term. Good girls don't f**k foreigners, no matter how much cash. A smart young girl studying at the University of the Philippines is not going to give an American sex tourist the time of day, let alone marry him.

This is why the top tier of girls is closed off to foreigners. The hottest, smartest, and most loyal girls go with the local guys. An American that came to live long term (an immigrant) can get some decent girls.
An American that doesn't live there is stuck with low class girls or pros.

Why? Social circle game is the best way to meet quality girls, in every situation. And building up a social circle takes years.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:02 pm

Steve Pavlina says NEVER GET A JOB!
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
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