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Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

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Winston
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Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

Post by Winston » January 8th, 2014, 12:40 am

I have a question. Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? The negatives seem to far outweigh the positives. I mean, consider the negatives:

- You are around sick, suffering and bleeding people all day. If that doesn't bring you down or drain you emotionally, nothing will. There is nothing more draining than trauma situations in ER's. You have to have a strong stomach to endure that.
- Being around sick people everyday means there is a high risk that you will catch some disease or be infected by something too. So it's a risk to your health as well.
- A doctor has to spend around 8 years at medical school, which is very expensive and involves many unpaid internships. 8 years is a lot of life to spend.
- A doctor's schedule often involves working long hours, such as 15 hour shifts. So there is little or no time for anything else. No time for freedom, fun, hobbies, travel, or even for family.
- If you regret becoming a doctor, there is little else you can do with your MD credentials. It doesn't transfer well to other fields and careers.
- If a patient dies under your care, their family may blame you for it or hold you responsible, or even sue you. How would you like to have a family hate you for life?
- If you make a mistake that costs your patient his/her life, you may feel guilty about it for the rest of your life.

Is all this worth it just to have a prestigious career or please your parents?

Why do most doctors become doctors? Is it out of an altruistic desire to help others, because of money and prestige, or family pressure?

HouseMD will probably have a lot to say about this one.
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Anti-American
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Post by Anti-American » January 8th, 2014, 12:50 am

Nursing is an overrated occupation and attracts many f***ed up people.

Rants about nurses:

http://predatort.blogspot.com/2007/07/i ... urses.html

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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor/nurse? Many negativ

Post by momopi » January 8th, 2014, 1:22 am

Winston wrote:I have a question. Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse?
Ask your doctor.

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Post by HouseMD » January 8th, 2014, 6:59 pm

I've pretty much retired from this site, but since you messaged me about it, here goes, point by point.

- You are around sick, suffering and bleeding people all day. If that doesn't bring you down or drain you emotionally, nothing will. There is nothing more draining than trauma situations in ER's. You have to have a strong stomach to endure that.

There are many types of medicine you can practice, from the tame (outpatient family practice, dermatology, radiology, physical medicine and rehabilitation) to the extreme (inner city ER, trauma surgery, neurosurgery). I'm an adrenaline junkie, but unlike the sorts who jump out of planes and go bungee jumping, I can only get my fix from real life-or-death situations. It was medicine or the military, and with my medical history, the military was out. After my time as a tech in the ED, my heart was pretty much set on emergency med.

- Being around sick people everyday means there is a high risk that you will catch some disease or be infected by something too. So it's a risk to your health as well.

It is sort of dangerous in certain environments, but completely safe in others. Again, the outpatient and less acute physician specialties don't really put themselves out there any more than an ordinary person would so far as their infection risk. Inpatient medicine has risks. I've had several TB exposures, which thankfully all resulted in negative PPD tests, and one needle stick incident from a patient with HIV and heptatitis when I was a respiratory therapist that also came up negative for both after testing. The TB you can't really help, but the needle stick was my own carelessness. You do what you can to protect yourself. Honestly you're probably more at risk of catching a disease from sleeping with one new girl you don't know than a doctor or nurse is at risk of catching a disease at work over their entire career.

- A doctor has to spend around 8 years at medical school, which is very expensive and involves many unpaid internships. 8 years is a lot of life to spend.

It's 4 years of medical school, and 3-7 years of (lowly) paid residency. It is a lot of life to spend, but I have already lived the best years of my life, and started med school a bit later than most. And it isn't like you can't live at all during that time. You get as much vacation as any other worker during residency, you can travel abroad during medical school for rotations, and, depending on where you do your residency, you can do international rotations as well. You work a lot of hours, but realistically during residency you're only pushing 60-65 hours a week, no more than a small business owner in the startup phase.

- A doctor's schedule often involves working long hours, such as 15 hour shifts. So there is little or no time for anything else. No time for freedom, fun, hobbies, travel, or even for family.

Depends on the type of doctor. A full time ER position is three 12 hour shifts per week, paid at $200/hr in my area. You knock out a full week of work in 3 days then have four days off. If you bunch up your schedule, you can do a run of 6 12s and then have 8 days off. Many salary contracts for ED work are yearly contracts, for, say, 1500 hours. Some people just work all 1500 as fast as they can, knocking it all out in 6 months, then spend the next 6 months on vacation, or working a second full salary job if they're greedy. Hospitalists usually work 7 on/7 off 12 hour shifts, so they work hard when they are working, but then have a whole week off to do whatever with. FP is usually a 9-5 M-F job, with weekend call for emergencies that usually consists of telling the patient to go to the ER. Derm is a 9-3 M-F job, they work banker's hours and make bank to boot. There's a lot of options, it isn't nearly as bad as you would think.

- If you regret becoming a doctor, there is little else you can do with your MD credentials. It doesn't transfer well to other fields and careers.

Medical consulting, working for pharmaceutical companies, medical management, medical device sales, and investment consulting are but a few of the careers a doc can easily make a switch to if they tire of clinical practice. There's a lot of options, and if you don't like the options you've got, you have enough money to retrain for whatever field you want. The people that regret becoming doctors are the ones who are there for the wrong reasons anyway, it's their fault for having their priorities messed up.

- If a patient dies under your care, their family may blame you for it or hold you responsible, or even sue you. How would you like to have a family hate you for life?

It doesn't happen all that often. If you are working in intensive care, which is about the only area where patients die that didn't come in already basically dead, you will get far more praise than anger from the families of your patients. Every year the ICU staff of every unit, from neuro to newborn to medical, would get flooded with gifts, food, cards, and appreciation from the families of patients that we were able to either save or at least provide excellent care and compassion to in their final hours.

- If you make a mistake that costs your patient his/her life, you may feel guilty about it for the rest of your life.

Depends on the person. Basically, if you are in inpatient practice, it is only a matter of time before you accidentally kill someone. This rule applies to nurses, doctors, physician assistants, and respiratory therapists. You might never know you did it. It could have been a bad decision, a mixed up med, or a simple mistake, but it will happen eventually. Every now and then though, you know you made a mistake. I've never accidentally killed someone, but I've had some near misses and a couple of tough decisions about equipment back in the day where I wonder if I did the wrong or the right thing, and I'll tell you, they haunt you a bit. Usually they are just things you learn from, that you will never, ever do again because you've got that mistake burned into your memory. But it doesn't really haunt you in day-to-day life, or at least it doesn't bother me. I was never one to think about work while I am not at work. It's what I do, not who I am.

Plus you save waaaaay more people than you harm, and that rush you get from the good decisions more than makes up for the bad ones. Especially when it's something you are particularly good at that most other providers have difficulty understanding, such as cardiopulmonary hemodynamics. If you've got your area and you make a life-saving call that 95% of other caregivers would not have made because they don't have your knowledge base, that feels awesome.

Is all this worth it just to have a prestigious career or please your parents?

You'd really have to ask someone who gives a damn about what their parents or society thinks. I haven't a clue. I went into this because I found I had a talent for it when I was a respiratory therapist, and I really just loved medicine. For people like me, it's a calling, basically. Like being in love, you can't help that it's what you want, you're just drawn to it, and would feel incomplete without it.

Why do most doctors become doctors? Is it out of an altruistic desire to help others, because of money and prestige, or family pressure?

Many different factors play into it. Some people go into it for the money, others for the perceived prestige, others for their families, and then there's always the "I just want to help people" types. Usually the money and prestige are sort of coupled and people that want one want the other, while the family oriented ones had parents who were physicians. The "IJWTHP" types are often bright-eyed, bushy-tailed idealists that are in for a hard punch in the face from reality and a serious case of disillusionment down the road, because people often don't want to be helped, and you can only do so much. Then there's the people who really love applied science and using their minds but hate research and mathematics. That's me. It's just the right fit for my personality type and skills, and I really enjoy it.

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Post by Hero » January 9th, 2014, 1:11 am

Filipinas go to nursing school so they can get jobs in the USA.

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Post by HouseMD » January 9th, 2014, 1:21 am

Hero wrote:Filipinas go to nursing school so they can get jobs in the USA.
They staffed all the off shifts at my old hospital in groups. Some days the whole floor staff would be Filipino in some areas. They jokingly called themselves the Filipino mafia. Good times.

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Post by Hero » January 9th, 2014, 2:48 am

HouseMD wrote:
Hero wrote:Filipinas go to nursing school so they can get jobs in the USA.
They staffed all the off shifts at my old hospital in groups. Some days the whole floor staff would be Filipino in some areas. They jokingly called themselves the Filipino mafia. Good times.
Hey, do you have any advice for my Filipina friend who's about to get her nursing degree and wants to move to the USA?

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Post by SilverEnergy » January 9th, 2014, 3:53 am

If they love what they do, then why question it?

At least they're doing something constructive with their lives and trying to make this world a better place.

We need more people who think about others in this world.

If you lost your limb, I am sure you would be forever grateful for your doctor.
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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor/nurse? Many negativ

Post by rainbanz » September 27th, 2017, 5:52 am

Is being a nurse hard? No, being a nurse isn’t hard it can be a very routine and boring job at times.

Are some of the roles we play hard? HELLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSS YES

Being a nurse is a lot like being a professional cook and I don’t mean the dude in the kitchen warming up food in the chili's.

If you want to be a nurse in a hospital or a specialty wing heres what you’re looking forward to and the same for cooks

- Except long hours the job description might say 12 hours but in the beginning except 14–15 hour days.

- Learn to be humble because you don’t know anything. Those practicals and clinicals in nursing school were a taste of the real thing but its so much harder.

- Be prepared to learn from non-nurses and LVN/LPNs First Rule: Your job is different from that of a LPN and a CNA they play a role in the care and will teach you how to do your job better and faster but you need to be respectful of them. Being a young nurses and barking orders will get you clowned.

- Start young becoming a nurse at 50 is fine you still got years in you but those days walking the floor add up quick physically.

- Your social life is going to suck unless you have someone who understands and can accept the crazy schedule. If you have someone who doesn’t understand, can’t roll with the punches, wont accept that you won’t always be there. Save yourself the headache of a divorce and move on ITS NOT GOING TO WORK OUT.

- COVER YOUR ASS COVER YOUR ASS COVER YOUR ASS. One more thing COVER YOUR ASS. Nurses eat our young. Yes, its stupid its archaic and counterproductive but their are a lot of trifling nurses that will not think twice about throwing you under the bus and smile in your face.

- Nursing is a game of politics in the daytime and learning skills at night. Unfortunately night shift is brutal but a lot less stressful but if can mess with you.

- Don’t be afraid to talk to a doctor or object but know what you’re talking about and run it by a veteran nurse you trust first until you’re comfortable with and learn to be brief and to the point. You’ll be better respected by the doctors and your fellow nurses.

- LEARN TO GET A COMFORTABLE PAIR OF SHOES!!! THIS IS IMPORTANT A COMFORTABLE PAIR OF SHOES it can mean the difference between a 12 hr shift of hell and a 12 hour shift that went by real easy.

- Nursings a thankless job. If you expect for people to pat you on the back for a job well done. This job ain’t for you but people will remember what you told them FOREVER.

- Your first year you’re going to think that you are going kill someone by accident and its going to stress you HARD. Suck it up, learn you have a team and ask questions. It get easier

Hope this Helps

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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor/nurse? Many negativ

Post by Master » September 28th, 2017, 7:56 am

why would you want to become a doctor?
To f**k nurses of course.
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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

Post by Winston » December 9th, 2017, 12:43 am

@HouseMD,
I told dianne to tell her sister that if she is going to work in america, that its better to be a pharmacist than a nurse. Because a pharmacist has a high salary with shorter working hours and less schooling is required to get licensed as well. My dentist would always recommend it as the best medical occupation with the best pay and least investment.

So it was obviously true before. But is it still true today still? If so why doesnt everyone study to be a pharmacist rather than a doctor or nurse, if the hours are shorter and less education is required yet the pay is just as high?
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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

Post by MrMan » December 9th, 2017, 5:11 am

Interesting question Winston. I think a lot of doctors want to help people and just have a driving passion for medicine. I think part of it is once you invest in something, it becomes more valuable to you, too. So once you have spent a year in medical school with the heavy requirements, you may either say forget this and leave, or else become very dedicated to finishing.

Other grad school programs can be rather intense, too. I could go to sleep at 1 and have to be in class at 6:45 and had a lot of projects when I was getting my masters degree. The degree after that was intense, too, but not as intense all as once, though there were a lot of sleepless nights, and some all-nighters.

But for medical doctors, it extends into residency, where they have to work long hours in a hospital, too. So after grad school, the ordeal is not over. I don't even know if it lightens up a bit. It might be worse for some of them in residence in terms of the lack of sleep and constant business.

If they specialize and become some kind of specialist surgeon, they can perform a few operations a year and earn a living that way. That's probably an extremely small minority.

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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

Post by HouseMD » December 10th, 2017, 6:06 am

Winston wrote:
January 8th, 2014, 12:40 am
I have a question. Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? The negatives seem to far outweigh the positives. I mean, consider the negatives:

- You are around sick, suffering and bleeding people all day. If that doesn't bring you down or drain you emotionally, nothing will. There is nothing more draining than trauma situations in ER's. You have to have a strong stomach to endure that.
- Being around sick people everyday means there is a high risk that you will catch some disease or be infected by something too. So it's a risk to your health as well.
- A doctor has to spend around 8 years at medical school, which is very expensive and involves many unpaid internships. 8 years is a lot of life to spend.
- A doctor's schedule often involves working long hours, such as 15 hour shifts. So there is little or no time for anything else. No time for freedom, fun, hobbies, travel, or even for family.
- If you regret becoming a doctor, there is little else you can do with your MD credentials. It doesn't transfer well to other fields and careers.
- If a patient dies under your care, their family may blame you for it or hold you responsible, or even sue you. How would you like to have a family hate you for life?
- If you make a mistake that costs your patient his/her life, you may feel guilty about it for the rest of your life.

Is all this worth it just to have a prestigious career or please your parents?

Why do most doctors become doctors? Is it out of an altruistic desire to help others, because of money and prestige, or family pressure?

HouseMD will probably have a lot to say about this one.
So, I don't want to talk much about my personal reasons for medicine- the short version is that I wanted to devote myself to a cause, because my own life was unfulfilling. I don't really care about the money, and there is virtually no prestige these days. My family couldn't give a damn what I do as long as I don't end up in prison, so that is also a non-issue

There are many misconceptions about what being a doctor entails. The hours can be long, but it depends on the field. Pathologists, psychiatrists, physiatrists, ER physicians, and many other fields spend less than 40 hours per week with their patients. It also doesn't pay all that well compared to many other fields- if I wanted money, I could have gone into many other fields that pay nearly as well but save me 7-10 years of my life. Sick people rarely get you sick- most sick patients do not have communicable diseases, and the ones that do are easily avoided by precautions and vaccinations. I can count the number of times I've been sick in the past five years on one hand.

So why go into it? Because you like what you do, you like helping people, or you really hate yourself.

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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

Post by Zambales » December 10th, 2017, 3:02 pm

If one is passionate about becoming a doctor/nurse then fine, but if someone has been cajoled into the profession by overbearing and selfish parents then it's probably not the wisest of career moves in terms of stress.

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Re: Why would anyone want to be a doctor or nurse? Too much overtime and schooling required.

Post by HouseMD » December 10th, 2017, 3:36 pm

MrMan wrote:
December 9th, 2017, 5:11 am
Interesting question Winston. I think a lot of doctors want to help people and just have a driving passion for medicine. I think part of it is once you invest in something, it becomes more valuable to you, too. So once you have spent a year in medical school with the heavy requirements, you may either say forget this and leave, or else become very dedicated to finishing.

Other grad school programs can be rather intense, too. I could go to sleep at 1 and have to be in class at 6:45 and had a lot of projects when I was getting my masters degree. The degree after that was intense, too, but not as intense all as once, though there were a lot of sleepless nights, and some all-nighters.

But for medical doctors, it extends into residency, where they have to work long hours in a hospital, too. So after grad school, the ordeal is not over. I don't even know if it lightens up a bit. It might be worse for some of them in residence in terms of the lack of sleep and constant business.

If they specialize and become some kind of specialist surgeon, they can perform a few operations a year and earn a living that way. That's probably an extremely small minority.

"Can we play golf some time? How busy is your schedule?"

"Next month, I've got a conjoined twin brain separation, and another one in April. Maybe I could squeeze a game of golf with you into my schedule."
Surgeons can't just perform a handful of operations a year. Even ones in fields like transplant tend to do other surgeries in between major cases to keep their skills up, because surgery is largely about repetition and muscle memory. Extremely complicated cases also tend to not be reimbursed all that well, as things like transplants are generally paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. Orthopedics and ortho-spine can pay a lot, but to be perfectly honest I don't trust most procedures in either field because the evidence behind them is very poor or absent, aside from emergency cases and hip/knee replacements.

The average surgeon puts in about 65 hours a week. Most doctors aren't surgeons, and depending on the field you'll be looking at 45-65 hours per week with the average being somewhere in the middle, plus every fifth night or so being on call. I plan to work what we call locums though, which are typically three month filler assignments that pay well, and I can take as much time off in between as I need so I can travel pretty freely. I've also considered doing claims work, which I could perform remotely.

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