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Does America really have more freedom than other places?

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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Ghost » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:47 pm

I think the U.S. has more freedom than North Korea and Equatorial Guinea.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Cornfed » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:05 am

Ghost wrote:I think the U.S. has more freedom than North Korea and Equatorial Guinea.

Maybe North Korea. I'd say you would be freer in Guinea if you had a little money.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Jester » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:15 am

Wolfeye wrote:I notice that there's a weird view of "equality" with laws. It's like it's all lumped-together & somehow "irradiated" by the more serious stuff. Murder & speeding are equally illegal



Astute observation.

Yes, that is how it has become.


I think that, with some people, there is an inability to see the law enforcement community as wrong for anything that's sanctioned or not claimed as a wrongdoing & any retaliation by the law enforcement community gets seen as perfectly fine. So it could be anything & it just happens to be whatever it is. Death penalty for underage drinking? Fine. Life in prison for driving with expired plates? Fine. Being locked-up at all for not looking scared enough of a cop? Sure.



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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Winston » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:09 am

Ghost just wrote a new post in our blog about the freedoms that China has that the US doesn't have. Check it out. He wrote it after we had a group discussion on WeChat about all the ways that China is freer than the US. I added some graphics to it.

Is China Freer Than The USA?
http://blog.happierabroad.com/2015/09/is-china-freer-than-america.html
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Yohan » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:19 pm

It depends about which 'freedom' you are talking of course, but China is not really such a free society.

China is highly restrictive about freedom of press, but also about information among its citizens and communication to abroad, internet and various foreign social services are heavily censored or sometimes totally blocked. It's not only about politics, but about other activities as well, religious activity for example.

About ownership, the Chinese property law does not permit any ownership of land, not only for foreigners, but also for its own citizens.
No individual in China can own land, even not for his own small house, not even land ownership in percentages for freehold condominium units.

China does not allow its own citizens to move within its own country, it's not only about Taiwan, HongKong and Tibet, but even moving from rural areas to cities requires permission.

If a Chinese citizen prefers to leave China and settles down in another country, there is no legal way to renounce the Chinese citizenship. Once a Chinese, always a Chinese citizen.

Fixed exchange rate, currency restrictions and high custom tariffs for imports show the other side of the Chinese economy, export is fine, imports not welcome, but international trade cannot remain a one-way route for always.

There are not many countries which accept Chinese citizens visa-free for a few days. It is easy to get a Chinese passport since 2014, but the question is which country is willing to accept you...

I do not say that everything in China is bad and everything in USA is fine, but if I had a choice between the Chinese or USA-citizenship, I will choose the USA-citizenship, no question about. Still the better place, just my opinion.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Yohan » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:04 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/26/xi-s-china-a-place-called-hopelessness.html

Seen from US-media... full article, link above

Xi’s China: A Place Called Hopelessness

Chinese President Xi Jinping is touring the United States. At home, young workers of “the ant tribe” feel left behind.

Two years ago, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) delivered a simple message to the people: Pursue the Chinese Dream. The exact details were fuzzy, but it went something like this: work hard, be proud, and you will get rich.
.....
Mention the Chinese Dream to anyone in China now, however, and you’ll likely receive a round of salty insults exploding like lead shot.

Ask the ant tribe. They’re educated, young professionals who live in near-poverty conditions, grinding away at soul-crushing jobs—not careers—that yield no personal satisfaction and zero financial growth. Typically from rural areas, most have settled in northwest Beijing, where their living quarters are cramped and they have no personal space. They’re smart, they work hard, yet receive no recognition and can’t shake off anonymity. So, people call them ants.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Adama » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:41 pm

All you need to do is control the media, the school system and the politicians. Then you can get people to believe almost anything you want them to.


Promote the myth of freedom in the USA through movies and in TV, have every politician say it, and instruct the teachers to say it to school children. In 20 years, these myths will become self-perpetuating. And if everyone else believes the USA is the best place on earth, how could so many people be wrong? They simply could not fool literally everyone. Or can they?
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Yohan » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:12 pm

Adama wrote:All you need to do is control the media, the school system and the politicians. Then you can get people to believe almost anything you want them to.
Promote the myth of freedom in the USA through movies and in TV, have every politician say it, and instruct the teachers to say it to school children. In 20 years, these myths will become self-perpetuating. And if everyone else believes the USA is the best place on earth, how could so many people be wrong? They simply could not fool literally everyone. Or can they?


How is this different from what is going on now in China? Control of the media, control of everything related to the educational system, all politicians controlled by the communist party. China is the paradise, even more freedom than in USA... :lol:
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Adama » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:23 pm

Yohan wrote:
Adama wrote:All you need to do is control the media, the school system and the politicians. Then you can get people to believe almost anything you want them to.
Promote the myth of freedom in the USA through movies and in TV, have every politician say it, and instruct the teachers to say it to school children. In 20 years, these myths will become self-perpetuating. And if everyone else believes the USA is the best place on earth, how could so many people be wrong? They simply could not fool literally everyone. Or can they?


How is this different from what is going on now in China? Control of the media, control of everything related to the educational system, all politicians controlled by the communist party. China is the paradise, even more freedom than in USA... :lol:


The Chinese masters are already in control by force. They do not have as much need to control people through psychological manipulation. The people do not have any power there and are defenseless against the government might. The USA still has an armed citizenry. So the government isnt able to do as much as it wants without some semblance of the consent of the majority of citizens. They use brainwashing techniques to get that consent.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby chanta76 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:04 pm

Not sure what Chinese tax system is like but America will tax you to death. Any time you make money they tax you. You want to sale something they tax you. Someone dies in your family there is the death tax. You buy something they tax you. You pay off your mortgage but still have to pay property tax. You pay for your phone bills and you got all these taxes that don't make sense.

It's govt way of taking your money when it shouldn't. Even the income tax is questionable. I don't think there is any mention about the income tax in the Constitutions (correct me if Im wrong) .

America being truly free is bullshit. You want to open a business there is sooo much regulation and red tape you have to cut throw to open up your own business.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Wolfeye » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:48 am

Death tax? You mean on inheritance & such? That IS pretty fucked-up? I wouldn't be suprised if they made a tax on literally dying, though. They'd just simply say "This is what we want." Of course, in different situation, that would be a good thing- like them saying "we don't want serial killers going on a rampage." Notice how they float on that concept? The potential good in a different situation?
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby zboy1 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:54 am

Yohan, believe it or not, China is in some ways, more free than the United States. Now, in terms of Internet access and blocking websites, China is very restrictive, but in other ways, especially socially--and in other areas--especially PC speech (which doesn't exist in China) and in business, China definitely more free than the States. Another good thing: cops don't bust your ass and write up ridiculous tickets or hound citizens abusively like American cops do.

I think that HA blog post written by Ghost encapsulates everything I just said in this post about China.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Yohan » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:00 am

chanta76 wrote:Not sure what Chinese tax system is like but America will tax you to death....
.....
America being truly free is bullshit. You want to open a business there is sooo much regulation and red tape you have to cut throw to open up your own business.


You have not been in Europe, comparing USA with Europe, USA is truly a free country totally open for business.

About China's communist system, it finds its money otherwise, for example with extremely low pay for its factory and rural workers, taxing foreign companies arbitrarily, collecting excessive high import duties, selling goods made for free by prisoners without declaring them correctly, earning huge money through overpriced real estate with low construction quality with all land not belonging to the buyer but to the state, stealing technical knowledge ignoring patent issues and so on and so on.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby Yohan » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:15 am

zboy1 wrote:Yohan, believe it or not, China is in some ways, more free than the United States. Now, in terms of Internet access and blocking websites, China is very restrictive, but in other ways, especially socially--and in other areas--especially PC speech (which doesn't exist in China) and in business, China definitely more free than the States. Another good thing: cops don't bust your a** and write up ridiculous tickets or hound citizens abusively like American cops do.
I think that HA blog post written by Ghost encapsulates everything I just said in this post about China.


Yes, various countries have some rules or offer a life-style which might be more free than USA in some aspects. But unfortunately only in SOME aspects. What you write above about China might fit very well for Thailand too. Or India etc.

However we have to see the overall situation, and I cannot recommend to change your US/Canadian/EU/Japanese citizenship for the Chinese/Thai/Indian nationality.

About US-justice and police and all racist BS going on, everybody will agree, that USA has clearly a problem with this issue, not all Western countries are like that. - I left EU for Japan, but I can assure you, that in both regions, EU as well as Japan, policemen are very honest people, respected for the job they are doing and nobody will consider them as 'criminals in uniform' as it is in USA.
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Re: Does America really have more freedom than other places?

Postby MarcosZeitola » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:27 am

Most countries are unfree in their own ways. When it comes to being allowed to speak your mind on political matters, let's not be naive; America is a lot more free then China. When it comes to deciding how many children you want? Again, I'd prefer to be in America because you actually have a say in the matter.

People take the whole "America, land of the free" emotionally charged bullshit too far, of course. It's not as free as you'd think. I am sure there is a lot of dark, messed up shit going on right under your noses, there are lobbies and companies that exert huge influence over the government, politicians are corrupt as f**k, and I keep hearing a lot of negative stories about the police.

Still, I would rather deal with those issues and at least have the freedom to decide how large I want my own family to be, rather then live in a country that dictates my family size, forces women into abortion, blocks facebook and throws people in jail for having a political opinion too critical of the accepted party line... or a country where you can just ride over a Mongolian or Tibetan or Uyghur with your truck and nobody would bat an eye because the victim isn't a Han Chinese...

Thankfully I won't have to choose anytime soon - the Philippines offers me the option of living my life as I please, and will continue to do so unless China continues to expand it's territory the way it seems to be doing right now. I am glad for the existence of both America and China, as they create some sort of balance. I would, however, not wish to live in either country.
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