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Why are flu shots in America free?

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Postby momopi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:34 pm

C.J. wrote:I no longer trust ANY employee working for the medical industry. I just can't fathom someone spending many years and thousands of dollars, JUST for the fantasy that they believe they're actually helping people and earning good money doing it! All the while, they're executing people.
If I ever see such a dumbass again, I'm gonna twist them in a knot. :x


So, if you broke a leg, who do you trust to fix it?




HouseMD wrote:The vast majority of GBS I see is from actual flu rather than the vaccine. Back at Big Med, we would get perhaps a dozen cases of severe GBS a year, not once was one vaccine induced that I can recall. It does and can happen though. You're fad more likely to get GBS or die from the flu than from the vaccine.


One of my former coworker's mother has GBS, her doctor thinks she got it from the vaccine. I'm not a medical professional and I defer to her doctor's opinion. Considering the odds, it's like winning the lotto in a bad way.
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Postby C.J. » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:02 pm

momopi wrote:So, if you broke a leg, who do you trust to fix it?

Better question: What can you personally do, to minimize the chances of you injuring your legs to the point where you'd need immediate medical attention?

You can't prevent ALL injuries to your legs. However, there are many precautions you can take to do the above.
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Postby HouseMD » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:07 pm

C.J. wrote:
momopi wrote:So, if you broke a leg, who do you trust to fix it?

Better question: What can you personally do, to minimize the chances of you injuring your legs to the point where you'd need immediate medical attention?

You can't prevent ALL injuries to your legs. However, there are many precautions you can take to do the above.

But when you do encounter a situation that requires medical attention, please don't come see us. The "f**k you guys (except when I need you)" attitude is dickish at best.
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Postby HouseMD » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:09 pm

momopi wrote:
C.J. wrote:I no longer trust ANY employee working for the medical industry. I just can't fathom someone spending many years and thousands of dollars, JUST for the fantasy that they believe they're actually helping people and earning good money doing it! All the while, they're executing people.
If I ever see such a dumbass again, I'm gonna twist them in a knot. :x


So, if you broke a leg, who do you trust to fix it?




HouseMD wrote:The vast majority of GBS I see is from actual flu rather than the vaccine. Back at Big Med, we would get perhaps a dozen cases of severe GBS a year, not once was one vaccine induced that I can recall. It does and can happen though. You're fad more likely to get GBS or die from the flu than from the vaccine.


One of my former coworker's mother has GBS, her doctor thinks she got it from the vaccine. I'm not a medical professional and I defer to her doctor's opinion. Considering the odds, it's like winning the lotto in a bad way.

Even getting GBS from winning the flu is like hitting the lottery. Getting it from the vaccine is equally as likely, as absolutely any immune system stimulation can trigger GBS. Hell, you could even end up with it from the common cold. It happens, it's just super rare.
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Postby Wolfeye » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:48 pm

No, the patient DOES tell you what you will or will not be doing to their body! You don't stylize as you wish & call an attack "the way you practice medicine." You act like you're resisting tyranny to keep the patient from comporting their own medical situation. You constantly dodged my points about iatrogenic attack, and any additional ramifications generated by it. You

I wonder if you roll your eyes & disregard the situation when someone is saing something you don't view with merit? Maybe when they refuse something? Oh, that's a "wrongful refusal." You think consent is outsourced to the doctor? It's not something that needs a doctor's cerifcation to exist.

If a guy so much as punches his wife in the face & says "well, that's just how I do married life" it doesn't make any difference- that's assault. If he breaks her nose, that's an injury. If a doctor decides to do a nose job on someone in their sleep, that is an attack & an injury too. A guy carves his initials in someone & does it with a scalpel- he's not innocent because he elects that as his "way of doing surgery." If a doctor does something & does it with medical procedures, it's up to them hat they do? Maybe it it's just in a medical setting, whether or not medical procedures are used?

You keep making comparisons to plumbers & electricians, yet you don't mention that these plumbers are not forcibly messing around with someone's "biological plumbing." You don't mention that these electricians are not hooking up a car battery to someone's nuts. Supposing one of these decided to make a pelvic exam a conditional for their servies? That is an attempt at coercion & far from innocent. Doctors set up a trap & then act like the patient makes their own choices- when it's NOT the patient deciding to include something in the situation.

Oh, and those multinational corporations with billions of dollars to spend tell you what do to? You seemed to have such a problem with it earlier. Also, doctors help build those companies. Their practices made the corporation money, plain & simple. Their actions are now somehow separated from yours? You acted in collaboration & then try to divide blame. I'm willing to bet that if you being on one of their prescriptions was a condition of employment, you'd research the effects of these things. With patients, however you could care less.

I don't doubt at all that you know these things are a problem (after all, you're so educated that what comes from your head is better than whatever comes from someone else's & your ego depends on that idea). I guess you can't say "I know it's a problem, but I like problems" and still have some camouflage to use, huh?
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Postby HouseMD » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:01 am

Wolfeye wrote:No, the patient DOES tell you what you will or will not be doing to their body! You don't stylize as you wish & call an attack "the way you practice medicine." You act like you're resisting tyranny to keep the patient from comporting their own medical situation. You constantly dodged my points about iatrogenic attack, and any additional ramifications generated by it. You

I wonder if you roll your eyes & disregard the situation when someone is saing something you don't view with merit? Maybe when they refuse something? Oh, that's a "wrongful refusal." You think consent is outsourced to the doctor? It's not something that needs a doctor's cerifcation to exist.

If a guy so much as punches his wife in the face & says "well, that's just how I do married life" it doesn't make any difference- that's assault. If he breaks her nose, that's an injury. If a doctor decides to do a nose job on someone in their sleep, that is an attack & an injury too. A guy carves his initials in someone & does it with a scalpel- he's not innocent because he elects that as his "way of doing surgery." If a doctor does something & does it with medical procedures, it's up to them hat they do? Maybe it it's just in a medical setting, whether or not medical procedures are used?

You keep making comparisons to plumbers & electricians, yet you don't mention that these plumbers are not forcibly messing around with someone's "biological plumbing." You don't mention that these electricians are not hooking up a car battery to someone's nuts. Supposing one of these decided to make a pelvic exam a conditional for their servies? That is an attempt at coercion & far from innocent. Doctors set up a trap & then act like the patient makes their own choices- when it's NOT the patient deciding to include something in the situation.

Oh, and those multinational corporations with billions of dollars to spend tell you what do to? You seemed to have such a problem with it earlier. Also, doctors help build those companies. Their practices made the corporation money, plain & simple. Their actions are now somehow separated from yours? You acted in collaboration & then try to divide blame. I'm willing to bet that if you being on one of their prescriptions was a condition of employment, you'd research the effects of these things. With patients, however you could care less.

I don't doubt at all that you know these things are a problem (after all, you're so educated that what comes from your head is better than whatever comes from someone else's & your ego depends on that idea). I guess you can't say "I know it's a problem, but I like problems" and still have some camouflage to use, huh?

If a doctor believes they are providing the best care by doing whatever procedure they deem necessary, to not practice in the manner that they believe to be optimal would thus be compromising what they believe to be their quality of care. We do not compromise our methods of practice for our patients, because to do so would be foolish. It would, again, be like an electrician performing substandard work at the request of a homeowner. They would simply not do it and tell you to go elsewhere. That we are working with the human body gives even more reason to never compromise in the standard of care. To do so is not only foolish but leaves you liable in many instances. A patient could very well sue if they were found to have cervical cancer after not receiving a screening and claim that the doctor did not properly inform them of the dangers of not being screened. Same with DREs in trauma. If you've got a guy that dies of a ruptured colon after refusing a DRE, you will be sued into the ground despite the fact the patient declined.

As with all your posts though, totes skimmed. I can't handle more than a paragraph of weapons grade derp and ignorance at a time.

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Postby momopi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:18 am

C.J. wrote:
momopi wrote:So, if you broke a leg, who do you trust to fix it?

Better question: What can you personally do, to minimize the chances of you injuring your legs to the point where you'd need immediate medical attention?
You can't prevent ALL injuries to your legs. However, there are many precautions you can take to do the above.


You tripped, fell, and suffered a bone fracture.

Who do you trust to treat your broken limb?
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Postby Wolfeye » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:55 am

momopi- Maybe the question shoud be: "Who do you trust to fix it & not do harm of their own?" Something to include not attacking you or doing additional harm (not necessarily an attack, but their style of doing things might add to problems). Not for nothing, but it certainly seems like medical personnel have a baselessly vengeful attitude toward someone they help with things. It's like getting them back becasue they didn't really want to help them out in the first place- getting someone else "back" for their own action. Of course that doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean that someone can't act that way or simply just want to take a shot at someone initially & act like it's that person's fault. Craziness as camouflage, maybe?

Another thing worth adding is that just because someone might go to this one or that one to fix a problem, that doesn't mean they'd do so because they trust them- they might just be the only game in town at the moment.
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Postby momopi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:04 am

Wolfeye wrote:momopi- Maybe the question shoud be: "Who do you trust to fix it & not do harm of their own?" Something to include not attacking you or doing additional harm (not necessarily an attack, but their style of doing things might add to problems). Not for nothing, but it certainly seems like medical personnel have a baselessly vengeful attitude toward someone they help with things. It's like getting them back becasue they didn't really want to help them out in the first place- getting someone else "back" for their own action. Of course that doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean that someone can't act that way or simply just want to take a shot at someone initially & act like it's that person's fault. Craziness as camouflage, maybe?



No, the question is simple. You (not "someone", YOU) tripped, fell, and broke a bone. Who do you trust to treat your bone fracture?
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Postby Wolfeye » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:55 am

momopi- I get your question, but my point is that I don't trust a doctor to fix the situation- much less not add to it. Sometimes the answer is zero. I'd honestly trust a stranger to fix my leg if I needed someone else to fix it in order for it to get fixed more than I would a doctor. A docto, at least in this part of the world, has more to gain from causing ou problems & they seem to go with that gain instead of not.
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Postby Wolfeye » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:58 am

HouseMD- I guess that superior intellect of yours isn't enough to read a couple of paragraphs, eh? You didn't manage to develop that ability in the course of your education & training?

Well, let's see if I can keep it real short for you: Medical quality is determined by patient satisfaction, not academic value. You doing something that is a problem for the patient is NOT of good quality. Your "methods of practice" exist soley to provide service to the patient. You are foolish for not doing what the patient wants in an effort to provide them with adequate care- simply because doing them harm is not an assistance. This includes harm generated by medical practices.

You also are not liable for the patient's decisions. You ARE liable for what you do to them. You think you're not liable for victimizing someone? You're out of your mind. That or very sneaky.

You are not smart enough to know what the patient wants in advance. This requires you to listen- not speak & act like they said it instead, not imaginarily edit what they say, not arrogantly disregard & do whatever you feel like. This is impossible for someone like you.

P.S.- Are the dangers or unrelabilities of sceening something the doctor is liable for not informing somoene of if any ramifications are realized? If someone has a miscarriage after being forced into "tests the doctor thinks well of," that's less of a miscarriage than if someone kicked her in the belly? Not liable for prescribing someone something that causes damage to their health, either? The patient should know better than to trust the doctor & the liability is on the patient. Except when they make their own decisions.
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Postby momopi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:55 pm

Wolfeye wrote:momopi- I get your question, but my point is that I don't trust a doctor to fix the situation- much less not add to it. Sometimes the answer is zero. I'd honestly trust a stranger to fix my leg if I needed someone else to fix it in order for it to get fixed more than I would a doctor. A doctor, at least in this part of the world, has more to gain from causing ou problems & they seem to go with that gain instead of not.


You're walking down the street and sees a stranger, who just had an accident & is laying on the sidewalk bleeding with a bone fracture. The stranger asks you for treatment. What would you do?
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Postby HouseMD » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:44 pm

Wolfeye wrote:HouseMD- I guess that superior intellect of yours isn't enough to read a couple of paragraphs, eh? You didn't manage to develop that ability in the course of your education & training?

Well, let's see if I can keep it real short for you: Medical quality is determined by patient satisfaction, not academic value. You doing something that is a problem for the patient is NOT of good quality. Your "methods of practice" exist soley to provide service to the patient. You are foolish for not doing what the patient wants in an effort to provide them with adequate care- simply because doing them harm is not an assistance. This includes harm generated by medical practices.

You also are not liable for the patient's decisions. You ARE liable for what you do to them. You think you're not liable for victimizing someone? You're out of your mind. That or very sneaky.

You are not smart enough to know what the patient wants in advance. This requires you to listen- not speak & act like they said it instead, not imaginarily edit what they say, not arrogantly disregard & do whatever you feel like. This is impossible for someone like you.

P.S.- Are the dangers or unrelabilities of sceening something the doctor is liable for not informing somoene of if any ramifications are realized? If someone has a miscarriage after being forced into "tests the doctor thinks well of," that's less of a miscarriage than if someone kicked her in the belly? Not liable for prescribing someone something that causes damage to their health, either? The patient should know better than to trust the doctor & the liability is on the patient. Except when they make their own decisions.

Medical quality is determined by patient outcomes, not patient satisfaction. I'd rather have a patient that hated me but lived because of my care than one that thought I was the best doc ever but died because I did what he said rather than what was the standard of care.

And I never claimed to have a superior intellect. I'm an average guy who happens to be training to be a doctor. That being said, I rightfully claim to know more about medicine and medical practice than you, just as any expert in any field has more knowledge than even a well-read layperson. I just have a low tolerance for bullshit, and can't bring myself to read much of it, as it tends to make my blood pressure go through the roof for no good reason.

A doctor can be held liable for miscarriages and whatnot from diagnostic testing, deaths from administering the wrong medication, etc. It's called malpractice and happens all the time.

I don't know what weird world you come from that all the doctors are crazy people that hate humanity. Most of us got into this because we want to help people. If we wanted money, we could have gone to Wall Street. If we wanted power or prestige, we could have gone into politics. But we chose to work our asses off for over a decade so we could fight an uphill battle in a crumbling system of high liability, decreasing reimbursement, increasing mistrust, high stress, and long hours because we actually want to do something worthwhile with our lives rather than being pencil pushers, bean counters, or power brokers. It's a sacrifice, not some wonderful or magical perfect career, where you give just about everything- your health, your time, your youth, your personal relationships- up to help save the lives of others. The only thing that is crazy is that we have the persistence and drive to do it at all, despite the whole world working against us.
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Postby Wolfeye » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:06 pm

momopi- Fix their leg, if I could.
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Postby momopi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:41 pm

Wolfeye wrote:momopi- Fix their leg, if I could.


Do you have any training in TBS (traditional bone-setter)?
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