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Why are flu shots in America free?

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Postby HouseMD » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:52 pm

Wolfeye wrote:momopi- Fix their leg, if I could.

Totally reasonable lol. Won't have any legal ramifications whatsoever when things go wrong. And you'll totally provide a higher level of treatment than, you know, going to a doctor and having their leg put in a cast to heal correctly.
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Postby sushiman » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:28 pm

Wolfeye wrote:Pretty much everything in a needle or a pill bottle here will have a destructive effect on your health.


Agree.

There's no reason why tampering with the way things have evolved with crude human science would *increase* health.
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Postby Wolfeye » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:54 pm

HouseMD- What weird world to you live in where everyone's the enemy? Oh, that's right- the one where the patient is "outranked" by the doctor & is attacking them by comporting their own medical situation.

You poor babies! You want to help people, but also to do it by attacking them- pretty antithetical. I guess if firefighters spray gasoline on a fire they're completely innocent AND the fire doesn't get bigger? You've argued repeatedly that you're not going to disengage when the patient wants you to & the kind of assault that is depends on mechanics. Seeing as you see it as some type of flaw to denote sexual assault as such, I'm willing to bet it's the pervy kind.

You also keep making references between people that work with items & medical personnel. There is a difference between objects & organisms, but I suppose even if someone could articulate it you'd just dispute it. I guess you're the only people in the room? Maybe the only ones that matter? I suppose someone can think of agreement as defeat, too- so anything other than discord would be unacceptable to the, which is antagonistically insane. The patient is somehow being a dictator to push back? What if there's things that are held in a disingenuous esteem? If something isn't as viable or safe as it's advertised?

Someone is not "wrong" to refuse something that might possess some utility, either. No, it's not the same thing as saying nothing at all. It's not bereft of validity.
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Postby Wolfeye » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:17 am

momopi- I actually do have some knowledge in how to set bones. I'm not claiming to be as good as someone like the one in Genghis Khan's hordes (apparently the Mongols had quite a bit of skill with that). Don't forget: something doesn't have to be taught in order to be learned, anyway.

Also, if someone WAS taught something, it stands to reason that someone else learning it would know it. If someone learned the things & could do it, but was uncertified- they'd still be capable of whatever that is. That education would also would have to have an origin, too.
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Postby momopi » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:45 am

Wolfeye wrote:momopi- I actually do have some knowledge in how to set bones. I'm not claiming to be as good as someone like the one in Genghis Khan's hordes (apparently the Mongols had quite a bit of skill with that). Don't forget: something doesn't have to be taught in order to be learned, anyway.


Traditional bone-setters are still working their professions around the world today, though less frequently in developed countries.

My father played basketball and was trained by TCM practitioner in Tui-Na to treat common sports injuries. Training in Tui-Na is available at TCM schools in California and elsewhere. Herbal lotions used with TBS, such as Zheng Gu Shui, are sold in the US as "external analgesic lotion".

If someone does not trust the hospital and would prefer to self-medicate, then I hope the person would at least learn how to treat common injuries & aliments. Accidents are unforeseen and unplanned part of life.
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Postby Taco » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:12 am

I thought this was interesting.

CDC Forced To Release Documents About Vaccine
http://worldtruth.tv/cdc-forced-to-rele ... -autism-3/
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Postby Wolfeye » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:23 am

momopi- Been thinking about that for a while, now. Any of those schools in New York?

Taco- It IS interesting. Thanks for the link.
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Postby zboy1 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:10 am

Wolfeye--how can you possibly say you know more about patient care and medical quality than HouseMD--who is training to be a doctor?

Even, I, as an x-ray technician, would know more about those fields than someone who has never been in the medical field, such as yourself? (That is, if you're not in a medical field. If you are, then I apologize.)
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Postby Wolfeye » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:20 am

Got to ask: What makes you think that it's "quality care" to iatrogenically assault someone? I don't care what occupation or grades someone has, they do not forge reality with their cognition. So someone's refusal is not "vetoed" out of existance because someone else doesn't grade it highly. I'm sure the doctors & nurses in the Holocaust didn't think very highly of the victims' protests, either. Their training did not alter the situation.
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Postby HouseMD » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:33 pm

Wolfeye wrote:Got to ask: What makes you think that it's "quality care" to iatrogenically assault someone? I don't care what occupation or grades someone has, they do not forge reality with their cognition. So someone's refusal is not "vetoed" out of existance because someone else doesn't grade it highly. I'm sure the doctors & nurses in the Holocaust didn't think very highly of the victims' protests, either. Their training did not alter the situation.

You are blaming the actions of a few doctors on all of them, and really blowing everything out of proportion to boot. You really seem quite detached from reality to be honest.
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Postby momopi » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:14 pm

Wolfeye wrote:momopi- Been thinking about that for a while, now. Any of those schools in New York?


I'm not familiar with NY, but you can inquire with local TCM practitioners and possibly martial arts schools. TCM Tui-Na is taught in US as martial arts & sports medicine to treat common sports injuries. They may not teach TBS as such patients (with broken bones) are usually rolled into ER.

For TBS practitioners abroad, the Luoyang Orthopedic-Traumatological hospital in Henan, China is one of the largest institutions:
http://www.lyzhenggu.cn/english/index.shtml
http://rbanham.wordpress.com/2008/12/23 ... e-setting/

They have an exchange agreement with Changhua Christian Hospital in my home town (Changhua, Taiwan). I do not know what their training/education requirements are at Louyang Orthopedic, you'd need to inquire yourself if interested.
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Postby Wolfeye » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:21 pm

So now it's "blaming all doctors on a few"? A second ago there was nothing even to mention as problems. I guess it's a marginal situation if it happens, but doesn't ALWAYS happen?

I'm also "detached" from reality to NOT be detached from reality? I notice you mention this right after I said that the doctor doesn't form reality by recognition. Must be that everything I've said is untrue, huh? Since I'm "quite detached from reality." The doctor trying to spin things around & blame someone else is a fairly common thing, too.
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Postby HouseMD » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:26 pm

Wolfeye wrote:So now it's "blaming all doctors on a few"? A second ago there was nothing even to mention as problems. I guess it's a marginal situation if it happens, but doesn't ALWAYS happen?

I'm also "detached" from reality to NOT be detached from reality? I notice you mention this right after I said that the doctor doesn't form reality by recognition. Must be that everything I've said is untrue, huh? Since I'm "quite detached from reality." The doctor trying to spin things around & blame someone else is a fairly common thing, too.

There are bad people in every profession. There aren't many, but they exist. A big part of why I don't bother to actually write out long arguments that hit everything point by point is that you have a cyclical pattern of argument that is littered with logical fallacies. Beyond that, what I (and the vast majority of society) believe to be reality, you believe to be fiction. You have no strong evidence for your claims, using anecdotes and personal feelings to back them. I pay attention to reality, results, and data, not your damn feelings. Feelings are what nurses are for. You go ahead and keep believing everything is a conspiracy and all of science and medicine are this big spooky unified group rather than a bunch of regular people that are just trying to do their jobs though. I'll continue to roll my eyes at your inability to use Occam's razor to solve basic logical questions.
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Postby Wolfeye » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:56 am

I see. So yoyu don't know what I said, you just figure it's bullshit. How attentive to reality of you!

By-the-way: Those feelings that you don't give a damn about & say nurses are for- that's someone's psychological health, nutjob! I guess if a doctor gives the impression that someone is going to die & that buts them through "suffering & distress" that's not something the doctor is culpable for? How about iatrogenic attack that they integrated into their style of business (I think you called it their "methods of practice")? See me, I figure an attack that's made a part of a pattern is not dissolved out of existance.

Oh, and those stories & anecdotal evidence that you ascribe no value to- are those fictional because of your concluding that they are? How about independant research? Or medical journals from countries with better health care or from this country? I mentioned quite a few things that are completely apriori- and you know that somthing self-evident does not need to be corraborated. In fact, there's no way to say something so someone else can't lie, argue, or twist your words. Ultimately, everything that's brought up you disqualify as nonsense. You do that in practice & you actually WILL be liable for lawsuits & potentially prison time (molesting, maiming, or murdering someone can still get you into a heap of shit).

I don't know what kind of information you have that ISN'T a story, but it's not rendered extant or not by your decisions. And don't doctors always have one story & then "find out" that something else is the case? What does that mean? You've got all kinds of training & expertise on how to not know shit?
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Postby zboy1 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:25 am

Wolfeye wrote:I see. So yoyu don't know what I said, you just figure it's bullshit. How attentive to reality of you!

By-the-way: Those feelings that you don't give a damn about & say nurses are for- that's someone's psychological health, nutjob! I guess if a doctor gives the impression that someone is going to die & that buts them through "suffering & distress" that's not something the doctor is culpable for? How about iatrogenic attack that they integrated into their style of business (I think you called it their "methods of practice")? See me, I figure an attack that's made a part of a pattern is not dissolved out of existance.

Oh, and those stories & anecdotal evidence that you ascribe no value to- are those fictional because of your concluding that they are? How about independant research? Or medical journals from countries with better health care or from this country? I mentioned quite a few things that are completely apriori- and you know that somthing self-evident does not need to be corraborated. In fact, there's no way to say something so someone else can't lie, argue, or twist your words. Ultimately, everything that's brought up you disqualify as nonsense. You do that in practice & you actually WILL be liable for lawsuits & potentially prison time (molesting, maiming, or murdering someone can still get you into a heap of shit).

I don't know what kind of information you have that ISN'T a story, but it's not rendered extant or not by your decisions. And don't doctors always have one story & then "find out" that something else is the case? What does that mean? You've got all kinds of training & expertise on how to not know shit?


Enough of the bickering and back and forth with HouseMD; this is a first warning, Wolfeye, if you want to stay on the forum.
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